Millwall fans just don't consider Charlton as serious rivals (From News Shopper)
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Millwall fans just don't consider Charlton as serious rivals
3:06pm Tuesday 12th March 2013 in Sport
Jimmy Abdou and Johnnie Jackson battle it out in December's meeting at The Den.
MILLWALL blogger MATT LITTLE explains why he doesn’t consider neighbours Charlton in the same category as Crystal Palace or West Ham when it comes to club rivalries ahead of this weekend’s derby at The Valley.
LAST week I had a bit of rant off the back of yet another poor home defeat and can only put it down to the fact I believe Millwall players should be aware of what is expected of them when they step foot onto the hallowed Den turf - that they have a responsibility to live up to our legacy as one of football’s toughest away days.
Thankfully we have a manager who understands and respects how important that legacy is to the Den faithful and on Sunday it looked as though Kenny Jackett had finally communicated that to the players.
To be fair, the likes of David Forde, Alan Dunne, Jack Smith, Shane Lowry and Danny Shittu have always bought in to this.
But too often this season they have been on their own, so hopefully the manager’s harsh words after the disgusting roll-over to Wolves have worked.
Indeed, against Blackburn maybe the quality was lacking, but no-one could question the commitment of the players this time-out, as the Rovers players are certainly nursing their bruises.
And that is all we ever ask for at The Den, that opposition players know that they’ve been in a game.
We will need that kind of commitment for the remainder of the season because while we travel to Ewood Park tomorrow night hoping to secure another trip to Wembley, we have the much more pressing matter of addressing our drop down the table on a scale not seen since 1996 and the days of Jimmy Nicholl.
Personally I think we will be fine, but I’d prefer to make sure of our Championship status sooner rather than later and a win from Saturday’s trip to The Valley would be a nice start.
I thought carefully about describing it as a trip to our rivals, but decided not to.
After all you would hardly put the two of us together in that sense.
In fact, a Luton fan I used to room with in the RAF used to joke that we should do a derby swap with Watford v Charlton and us v Luton making much more sense.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s certainly a big local game.
So is Notts County v Nottingham Forest, but just like that Nottingham derby it lacks any real intensity.
It’s a marriage of geographical convenience rather than a bitter football feud.
That’s because, unlike Crystal Palace and West Ham, Charlton have never really inflicted any of the pain on us which is vital to building up a good rivalry, it’s very much a one-sided affair.
Whereas Palace have gleefully picked over our carcass when we’ve been at out lowest or most vulnerable, in return inflicting the likes of Bobby Bowry and Ricky Newman on to us, Charlton have always been the most obliging of neighbours.
I cannot ever recall them stealing our most promising players or us losing an important game to them, nor have I experienced them humiliate us in the same manner we have them over the years.
Indeed, it is by far and away the most one-sided derby series in English football – in Millwall’s favour, and I’ve lost count of the amount of times we’ve scored a late winner or equaliser against them.
Conversely, I can recall plenty of times Palace and West Ham have inflicted painful and cruel defeats on us, or have lorded it over us in some obnoxious way.
Then there’s what I see as Charlton’s neediness - and just like on the dating scene it’s not a very appealing or attractive quality to have in a potential rival.
All this ‘I thought you didn’t care about us’ nonsense is a bit much.
Yes, of course we think it’s a big match, the two grounds are less than four miles apart.
But we sell out our allocations for our other two derbies home and away just as quickly, yet don’t have to constantly keep reassuring Palace or West Ham fans this proves we do care about them after-all.
I just hope West Ham United don’t keep any pet rabbits at their ground, as I fear Charlton fans might boil them in a fit of jealous rage should we sing about the Hammers on Saturday.
Add in their delusions of grandeur and they start to look more like crazy neighbours than genuine rivals.
If you ever get stuck talking to one of their fans and they start prattling on about Charlton being a big club and referring to us as ‘Smallwall’, just keep nodding politely without making eye contact.
Whatever you do, don’t say you don’t know many big clubs who play on a sand-pit of a pitch or have a sponsor that’s just one apostrophe away from being embarrassingly Sunday League.
And never bring up the fact it was because of gates of 5-6,000 for Second Division football, in a crumbling monument to a different era, they became the first professional club to ever be kicked out of their own stadium.
Nor mention it wasn’t their heroic return to The Valley which saw them average more than 12,000 for the first time in nearly 30 years, but promotion to the Premier League and the promise of cheap tickets and travel for people from places like Herne Bay and Maidstone to watch, not Charlton, but Thierry Henry et al.
Because if you do, they’ll get so angry the chips on both of their shoulders will start to fry.
Although if they try to boast about their crowds dwarfing ours, then you’re allowed to laugh and simply say – Greenwich council employees, school children, tickets, free – and walk away.
By the time they’ve worked it out you won’t be able to hear their duffle-coat muffled implosion.
For someone who honestly isn’t that bothered about Charlton, Addicks fans reading this will suggest I ‘doth protest too much’.
Maybe they’re right.
But they have every opportunity to ram this column down my throat and surpass their wild celebrations at gaining just a 0-0 draw at The Den in December come Saturday.
I just hope to God we can keep our excellent record against them up, not for bragging rights but because we desperately need a result from somewhere, anywhere.
Agree or disagree? Leave your comments below.
Comments(22)
CAFCfan
says...
5:52pm Tue 12 Mar 13
Whilst you're right about how one-sided the derby is, and how Millwall haven't received much 'pain' after games between the two sides, this hardly constitutes the essence of a rivalry. In fact geographical location is the biggest component of most. 'Bragging rights' are a key part of the derby-match experience, most if not all Charlton fans have Millwall friends/family/neigh
bours, and the prospect of a game between the two raises this competetive edge and banter between friends and colleagues. How many Palace fans work alongside Brighton fans? How many Chelsea fans work alongside Leeds fans? These fans will never have in their minds "I'm gonna get slaughtered about this on Monday", or "I can't wait to rub it in my father in laws face" on a Saturday evening. Things like this are what make rivalries so special, not 'whose firm will come out victorious' or (to a lesser extent) whether or not you score a last minute winner.
Your reference to a fantasised rivalry with Luton is ridiculous - why is it so apt? Because you're both seen as being well 'ard? Why would it be apt for us to be rivals with Watford? Because we're both perceived as family/community clubs? I don't know any Watford fans. Whose face would I rub it in if we scored a last minute winner against them?
You seem to also equate rivalry to hatred. Very few Charlton fans 'hate' Millwall. Most of us 'hate' Palace - because they represent everything that is crude and at odds with what a football club should be about - cheerleaders before the game, changing their badge/kit/colours/ni
ckname every season, their "ultras", that hideous "We Love you" song, rivalry with a club 70 miles away, goal-music, an announcer who loves a bit of call-and-response, 'South London and proud'....I could go on. We do not hate Millwall. We see them as our 'naughty younger brothers': a club who we respect in one sense, for their similarities with us (small clubs in the shadow of richer London sides), a strong club identity etc.
As for "delusions of granduer" and your hilariously desperate reference to greenwich council and free tickets...We average about 20,000 fans at home this season. Over 10,000 of those are season ticket holders. That means we have more paying season ticket holders than Millwall's average attendance. The vast majority of those forked out £300+ in advance, for a team who were at that time sitting in the third division. 2 relegations in 3 years, and yet we were (and are) still getting double the attendances you are. And the majority of that's not free tickets buddy, its our "loyal, dedicated, fanbase" (something Millwall fans are said to pride themselves upon...)
If we're really not proper rivals, look at the attendance when we played you this season. Compare that to other games of yours this season. Compare that to other rivals games of yours this season. Then have a look at how quickly you sold out your allocation at The Valley. Then have a look at all the Millwall fans desperately trying to get tickets in home areas.
rocket1
says...
6:11pm Tue 12 Mar 13
LittleByLittle
says...
7:18pm Tue 12 Mar 13
It's a throw away blog I write for the amusement of fellow Millwall fans in the style of an old fashioned fanzine.
I really wouldn't analyse it too much, lads.
Lippy11
says...
10:29pm Tue 12 Mar 13
LittleByLittle
says...
11:31pm Tue 12 Mar 13
We're the same for Charlton fans I guess - hence why you get so many 'look at what Millwall have done now' threads on Charlton boards.
I just think the only difference is we don't mind laughing at ourselves. After all, it's only words and silly tribalism.
I actually don't mind Charlton, and have written pieces talking about how we could learn from them...
Only_me!!
says...
3:55am Wed 13 Mar 13
banjo8
says...
8:44am Wed 13 Mar 13
LittleByLittle
says...
10:13am Wed 13 Mar 13
It's always fascinated me how angry people get over something as trivial as some stranger poking fun at their football team.
Both Millwall & Charlton fans are behind saving Lewisham A&E and supporting the Knox and Mizen families...things worth pouring your energy into.
And as I said - if Charlton beat us on Saturday then feel free to gloat away here...that's the great thing about football...silly, illogical tribalism. But it's nothing to get upset about.
LittleByLittle
says...
12:52pm Wed 13 Mar 13
So, if you're one of the 7-8,000 Charlton fans who used to go before premier league football, cheap season tickets, the valley express and free school tickets then none of the above should upset you.
And if you're someone who only discovered the club when some men turned up in your Kent town and offered you the chance to go watch the likes of Manchester United for cheap on a specially supplied coach & you've stuck with them since, and are enough of a fan now to bother reading my Millwall biased rubbish, then good on you!
PaulErith
says...
1:17pm Wed 13 Mar 13
One thing I will say though is your comment about "Greenwich council employees, school children, tickets, free". On a serious note, do you think that is a bad idea because if you do, I think you have no business sense whatsoever. It's a great model and idea that other clubs have adopted as well. We may give away a couple of thousand tickets to school kids. Without this, we average about 17,000. With about another 6,000 home seats empty, it's a great idea to give these to school kids. Firstly, the parents spend money at the ground. Secondly, a percentage of these kids may support the club as they get older.
PaulErith
says...
1:23pm Wed 13 Mar 13
LittleByLittle wrote:Btw, as a fan prior to the Premier League days, totally agree that a lot of plastic fans came along when we were in the top division. They used to wind me up too. I don't really think that's something that is unique to our club. How many more fans do Chelsea get now compared to the team that was in division 2 in the 80's. Without a shaddow, any team that goes to the Premier League will gain fans. I'm pretty sure that Millwall would sell out their ground if they went up as opposed to the approx. 10,000 average gate they get now.
Btw I had an eccentric Welsh Corporal once, who used to say 'a ram can't get upset if he gets called a sheep-shagger'. So, if you're one of the 7-8,000 Charlton fans who used to go before premier league football, cheap season tickets, the valley express and free school tickets then none of the above should upset you. And if you're someone who only discovered the club when some men turned up in your Kent town and offered you the chance to go watch the likes of Manchester United for cheap on a specially supplied coach & you've stuck with them since, and are enough of a fan now to bother reading my Millwall biased rubbish, then good on you!
As I say, these "fans" do annoy me, but unfortunately some people are just glory hunters that aren't in it for the thick and thin. Personally, I used to hate it when we played Man U or Arsenal because it meant we'd probably lose. Give me Wigan or Southampton any day!
goldenbroomboy
says...
3:12pm Wed 13 Mar 13
IMHO that is not the mark of a fan, that is the mark of a twonk.
And FTR I do not consider that mentality to be the mark of Millwall (or Palace) supporters, whom apart from football I have very much in common with. Cheer on your team, boo ours, we give you the same, lets enjoy the game.
Unless Man U are involved.
jay2180
says...
9:55pm Wed 13 Mar 13
LittleByLittle
says...
10:11pm Wed 13 Mar 13
After all, Millwall are far the bigger club...5 FA Cup Semi Finals, Wembley virtually a second home where we hold the attendance records at both old & new versions, potentially a second FA Cup final in a decade, famous for bringing on Premier League stars like Teddy Sheringham & Tim Cahill, only club to be unbeaten at home for an entire season on 5 occasions, a byword for passion, pioneers for football in the community, joint pioneers of professional football in the south...and an unbeaten home record in European football!
Charlton are famous for being homeless & winning a game 7-5.
PaulErith
says...
9:16am Thu 14 Mar 13
LittleByLittle wrote:If you hold an attendance record at Wembley, why do you average 10,000 at home?
I think it's Charlton who are jealous Paul from Erith. After all, Millwall are far the bigger club...5 FA Cup Semi Finals, Wembley virtually a second home where we hold the attendance records at both old & new versions, potentially a second FA Cup final in a decade, famous for bringing on Premier League stars like Teddy Sheringham & Tim Cahill, only club to be unbeaten at home for an entire season on 5 occasions, a byword for passion, pioneers for football in the community, joint pioneers of professional football in the south...and an unbeaten home record in European football! Charlton are famous for being homeless & winning a game 7-5.
Also, you're not exactly famous for bringing through scores of top talent. You've named two! Cahill is arguable as he didn't actually come through your youth ranks. Scott Parker, Jermaine Defoe and Robert Lee are a few players that we brought on and went on to big things.
the wall
says...
1:28pm Thu 14 Mar 13
If you hold an attendance record at Wembley, why do you average 10,000 at home? Where did you get 10,000 average from?
There are many many reason why. For me I'm often doing other things some people have kids now, some just can't offord to go. You are no more or no less of a fan just becasue you don't go to every game.
PaulErith
says...
10:46am Fri 15 Mar 13
the wall wrote:Yeah agreed Ben Thatcher is another that did well. Sorry, 10,623 according to the official stats for this season. Didn't mean to do you out of 623 fans! :) I was only commenting on that because the bloke that writes this article is very hyprocitical. He criticises Charlton because they had lots more fans that came along when we were in the Premier League compared to the division 2 days, but then comes out with something about Millwall having an attendance record at Wembley. Hopefully, you can see the hyprocracy in that statement.
Ben Thatcher, now what club did he end up at? If you hold an attendance record at Wembley, why do you average 10,000 at home? Where did you get 10,000 average from? There are many many reason why. For me I'm often doing other things some people have kids now, some just can't offord to go. You are no more or no less of a fan just becasue you don't go to every game.
I don't fully agree about fans that don't make the games. I totally get that some people simply cannot afford to go, or maybe they're working away or have moved far away so couldn't practically make it. However, there's many people out there that could afford and make the time to go but they don't. They are certainly armchair supporters, and many do jump on the bandwagon as soon as their team starts doing well. Obviously, I'm including Charlton in this - it's the same for every team. (Although some worse than others - Man U being the worst. How can so many people in London support Man U? Clearly glory hunters.)
LittleByLittle
says...
3:30pm Sat 16 Mar 13
So many empty seats in the Charlton ends & the flat atmosphere made me think who cares if we get mocked for selling out our home & away allocations for our derby games with Charlton, Palace & West Ham so quickly...I'd rather the feel of a 'Cup Final' than what was on show at The Valley today.
I think this difference in average gates is down to Charlton not having more fans than Millwall, but Charlton have a bigger customer base.
You see The Valley wasn't sold out for either of Charlton's derby fixtures. It seems the Charlton customers out there are only interested in coming for top flight football or if there's a special ticket promotion on. Having a support made up of so many customers obviously dilutes the atmosphere. So, I'm sure I speak for all Millwall fans when I say we'd much rather have the same old faces turn up who actually have an affinity for the club & get behind them.
The other difference is in the board rooms. Whilst our Chairman John Berylson has said he doesn't want to spend silly money chasing the PL cash cow, he is prepared to invest in the club. He covers all debts and allows Kenny Jackett to bring in players that can turn games - Easter & Chaplow today. Plus he poured money into a sand fibre pitch...the Valley surface is an utter disgrace to this level of football.
Charlton may have a Championship / Lowe PL customer base...but they are run like a League One side.
As for glory hunters at Wembley? So what - it's how clubs grow. I'm certain some of the kids and lapsed fans that go or watch on TV will get the Millwall bug again / cement emotional ties to the club. It also raises our profile in SE London for all the right reasons. Sure, crowds won't jump to 15,000 next season just because of a good Cup run, but out of small acorns. Indeed, Millwall are certainly a bigger club now than they were pre Wembley 1999, the Cup Final and the recent play off wins.
LittleByLittle
says...
3:39pm Sat 16 Mar 13
PaulErith wrote:Oh, if you mean that we spotted as kids and played for us from very early on (Cahill signed at 15 true, as did Lucas Neill)..,
LittleByLittle wrote:If you hold an attendance record at Wembley, why do you average 10,000 at home?
I think it's Charlton who are jealous Paul from Erith. After all, Millwall are far the bigger club...5 FA Cup Semi Finals, Wembley virtually a second home where we hold the attendance records at both old & new versions, potentially a second FA Cup final in a decade, famous for bringing on Premier League stars like Teddy Sheringham & Tim Cahill, only club to be unbeaten at home for an entire season on 5 occasions, a byword for passion, pioneers for football in the community, joint pioneers of professional football in the south...and an unbeaten home record in European football! Charlton are famous for being homeless & winning a game 7-5.
Also, you're not exactly famous for bringing through scores of top talent. You've named two! Cahill is arguable as he didn't actually come through your youth ranks. Scott Parker, Jermaine Defoe and Robert Lee are a few players that we brought on and went on to big things.
So, that would be Mark Kennedy, Ben Thatcher, Jon Goodman, Andy Roberts, Neil Emblem, Rio Ferdinand, Chris Smalling, Ledley King, Gary O Neill, Jamie O Hara, Marlon King...off the top of my head.
GODUPERE2
says...
5:56pm Sun 17 Mar 13
ome?
PaulErith
says...
8:42am Tue 19 Mar 13
LittleByLittle wrote:Two quick comments on what you've said. I have no problem about your Wembley crowds. You just need to think about what you write in terms of criticising Charlton for having bigger crowds in the Premiership than before. Of course they did, in the same way that Millwall get bigger crowds at Wembley compared to a normal home game. It's kind of hypocritical to criticise one and not the other.
Wind ups and joking aside I think today showed the differences between the two clubs. So many empty seats in the Charlton ends & the flat atmosphere made me think who cares if we get mocked for selling out our home & away allocations for our derby games with Charlton, Palace & West Ham so quickly...I'd rather the feel of a 'Cup Final' than what was on show at The Valley today. I think this difference in average gates is down to Charlton not having more fans than Millwall, but Charlton have a bigger customer base. You see The Valley wasn't sold out for either of Charlton's derby fixtures. It seems the Charlton customers out there are only interested in coming for top flight football or if there's a special ticket promotion on. Having a support made up of so many customers obviously dilutes the atmosphere. So, I'm sure I speak for all Millwall fans when I say we'd much rather have the same old faces turn up who actually have an affinity for the club & get behind them. The other difference is in the board rooms. Whilst our Chairman John Berylson has said he doesn't want to spend silly money chasing the PL cash cow, he is prepared to invest in the club. He covers all debts and allows Kenny Jackett to bring in players that can turn games - Easter & Chaplow today. Plus he poured money into a sand fibre pitch...the Valley surface is an utter disgrace to this level of football. Charlton may have a Championship / Lowe PL customer base...but they are run like a League One side. As for glory hunters at Wembley? So what - it's how clubs grow. I'm certain some of the kids and lapsed fans that go or watch on TV will get the Millwall bug again / cement emotional ties to the club. It also raises our profile in SE London for all the right reasons. Sure, crowds won't jump to 15,000 next season just because of a good Cup run, but out of small acorns. Indeed, Millwall are certainly a bigger club now than they were pre Wembley 1999, the Cup Final and the recent play off wins.
As for the empty seats at the Valley on Saturday, there was a very good reason for this. Rightly or wrongly, no tickets were on sale to the general public. There were still 15,000 home fans. The reason was that last time we played Millwall, lots of Millwall fans managed to buy tickets in the home end, and then, especially in the East Stand, it all kicked off. Because of this, the decision was taken not to sell the tickets.

SouthEastThreeSixNine says...
4:12pm Tue 12 Mar 13