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Care home proposals altered again

10:11am Wednesday 1st August 2007

comment Comments (44) Have your say »

By Robert Fisk »

RESIDENTS are fighting plans to open a care home for "troubled" youths.

Precision Care originally said it wanted to run a facility for children who may have been abused or who are suffering from eating disorders and it was given a certificate of lawfulness last November.

The certificate, issued by Bromley Council's planning department, means it does not need to apply for planning permission for the building, in Southlands Road, Bickley, to be run as a care home.

However, the care home company changed its plan and also applied to Ofsted, which regulates UK chidren's care homes, to run Atlanta House as a home for "troubled and troublesome adolescent boys" in May.

Residents in the four-bedroomed house would have been boys who were at risk of offending or about to be released from young offenders' institutions.

But at a meeting of representatives from the company, council officers, ward councillors and residents on July 26, Precision Care announced it had shelved the idea of opening it to troubled boys.

It is now considering using the building as a home for 12 to 18-year-old girls with psychological problems who may also suffer from eating disorders.

But it is also looking into whether it is actually worth opening at all or whether to try to open somewhere else and it is expected to make a decision within two weeks.

An action group was set up against the plans for Atlanta House and has attracted more than 100 members in the past month.

It has distributed posters and leaflets about the issue and set up a website which is updated with news about the plan.

The action group has also gained the support of Bromley and Chislehurst MP Bob Neill and Bromley Council's Bickley's ward councillors.

Group spokesman Peter Trott, 59, says it thinks the company has mismanaged its attempt to move into the area.

He said: "We feel the company is totally unconvincing. There has been no element of seeking support for what it is trying to do."

The Falcon Avenue resident added: "I'm not unaware of the issues young people face and I'm not without feeling for them but our principle objection is with the company."

Group member Sarah Hayes, 40, of Southlands Road, said: "We are not convinced it is able to manage or operate at Atlanta House."

The web designer and mum-of-two added: "The plans have changed quite a bit from the beginning.

"They have changed from children with eating disorders to troublesome boys and back to eating disorders.

"It leaves us feeling very concerned it could change again."

Ward councillor and portfolio holder for public protection and safety Colin Bloom said: "If they want to provide a quality service for vulnerable young people with eating disorders then there is a degree of anonymity which is required to respect the young.

"But now everybody knows about the home and they will find it very difficult to balance the needs of the people with the fact they have already shot themselves in the foot."

Precision Care was unavailable for comment at the time of going to press.

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Your Say YourShopper

Social Care, Bromley says...
12:03pm Wed 1 Aug 07

N.I.M.B.Y's You get on my nerves. Give these kids a chance.

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Adrian Appley, Chatterton Road, Bromley. says...
12:54pm Wed 1 Aug 07

It was no surprise to read Social Care calling those of us who challenge this inappropriate use of Atlanta House N.I.M.B.Y.s but as I live in Chatterton Road - a quarter of a mile away - I could hardly be called a N.I.M.B.Y. could I, or do they think I am ? Isn't it in Social Care's business interest to see Precision Care getting their own way to the enormous detriment to the local people ? Stop being typical do-gooders because your types make US sick.

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anon, Bickley says...
1:58pm Wed 1 Aug 07

i think this is disgraceful, bickley is a lovely area which is going to be ruined by these good for nothing toe rags. you can be your bottom dollar that the crime rate in the area will increase the moment these scumbags are moved in. i am 100% against it. bickley is a lovely area - why should these lot be given the chance to live in an area some other people would give their right arm to. ive worked hard to be able to afford a place there, fat lot of good that has done as now it will be overun with hoodies! give them a hug? id rather give them a fat lip!

And "Social Care" of bromley - perhaps you would like to live next door to them? thought not.

Report this post »

Sarah Hayes, Bickley says...
2:33pm Wed 1 Aug 07

There are two issues here. Firstly, despite Precision Care's current criteria for admission, i.e. abused and/or have some psychological condition, as well as eating disorders or neglect, in reality Bromley Council's policy, I understand, is to place children in forster homes where ever possible and residential care homes are only used as a last resort. Bromley Council currently have no children requiring this type of care home. This means that the children being placed at Atlanta House would be from other local authorities and they would be there because all other forms of foster care had failed.

The Director of Adult and Community Services has already stated for the record that this situation has not been brought about by the Council and was not being proposed to meet the needs of Bromley young people.

The real risk is that although these children may have psychological and/or eating disorders they will be there because fostering and other forms of on-going care is proving problematic or unsuitable and in fact Atlanta House will cater for the most troubled and troublesome young people as stated in as their previous admission criteria which specifically included young people who are at risk of offending; those who are about to be discharged from secure conditions; or those young people who are to be remanded on Bail to a facility approved by the Local Authority. Neither Atlanta House or the surrounding neighbourhood is suitable for this type of facility.

Secondly, I do not have any confidence in what Precision Care say and that they will keep to it. Precision Care have changed their admission criteria three times now. Residents near another Precision Care owned home at Gates Farm Lodge, Battle have had similar experiences with criteria changing. What was a 17 bed care home for the elderly is now being bulldozed to make way for a 48 bed home for adults aged 18-65 with learning disabilities. Residents there did not object to the original planning application by Precision Care because they had assured them it would remain a care home for the elderly.

I am not convinced of the ability of Precision Care to manage any operation at Atlanta House or that the admission criteria won't change again and for the worse.

There are two issues here. Firstly, despite Precision Care's current criteria for admission, i.e. abused and/or have some psychological condition, as well as eating disorders or neglect, in reality Bromley Council's policy, I understand, is to place children in forster homes where ever possible and residential care homes are only used as a last resort. Bromley Council currently have no children requiring this type of care home. This means that the children being placed at Atlanta House would be from other local authorities and they would be there because all other forms of foster care had failed. The Director of Adult and Community Services has already stated for the record that this situation has not been brought about by the Council and was not being proposed to meet the needs of Bromley young people. The real risk is that although these children may have psychological and/or eating disorders they will be there because fostering and other forms of on-going care is proving problematic or unsuitable and in fact Atlanta House will cater for the most troubled and troublesome young people as stated in as their previous admission criteria which specifically included young people who are at risk of offending; those who are about to be discharged from secure conditions; or those young people who are to be remanded on Bail to a facility approved by the Local Authority. Neither Atlanta House or the surrounding neighbourhood is suitable for this type of facility. Secondly, I do not have any confidence in what Precision Care say and that they will keep to it. Precision Care have changed their admission criteria three times now. Residents near another Precision Care owned home at Gates Farm Lodge, Battle have had similar experiences with criteria changing. What was a 17 bed care home for the elderly is now being bulldozed to make way for a 48 bed home for adults aged 18-65 with learning disabilities. Residents there did not object to the original planning application by Precision Care because they had assured them it would remain a care home for the elderly. I am not convinced of the ability of Precision Care to manage any operation at Atlanta House or that the admission criteria won't change again and for the worse.

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Social Care, Bickley ! ! ! ! ! says...
2:47pm Wed 1 Aug 07

Mr Appley, if you are not a N.I.M.B.Y on what do you base your objections? A sound Medical or Social Work degree prehaps? "Anon", you worked so hard for what you have got and now it's going to be worthless? Best you start dishing out "fat lips" to those responsible before these alledged "toe rags" beat you to it and Ms Hayes, you might sound like you know all about it, but you're just as bad as the other two, who are sickened by "do-gooders" and driven to violence because their house isn't worth two bob anymore.
Incidently, Appley I have no "interest" in this project, but I do have some compassion for those less fortunate.

Report this post »

anon, says...
3:53pm Wed 1 Aug 07

oh give it a rest Social Care. The fact is i dont want to live next door to a load of down and outs who will cause trouble. stick em somewhere else - not on my doorstep!!!! IDIOT.

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tigs, says...
4:08pm Wed 1 Aug 07

Lets just hope that no-one in your family 'anon' ever gets an eating disorder cos you will just dis-own them u sad case!

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Social Care, Beckenham says...
4:15pm Wed 1 Aug 07

It saddens my old heart that Anon has to resort to name calling as well as "fat lipping" sounds like these kids would be ideal neighbours!

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Thin White Duke, Bromley says...
4:20pm Wed 1 Aug 07

Well said Tiggs, these nimby morons are the first one's to squeal when one of them needs something.

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Anon, says...
4:42pm Wed 1 Aug 07

You are missing my point here. i do not object to housing for girls with eating disorders, what i do object to is this:

quote
However, the care home company changed its plan and also applied to Ofsted, which regulates UK chidren's care homes, to run Atlanta House as a home for "troubled and troublesome adolescent boys" in May.
unquote

i do not want the nice are which is bickley to be overun with "troubled and troublesome adolescent boys" who have nothing better to do than hang around and cause trouble. is that not a fair point??????

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Yes, I'm a NIMBY, Bickley says...
5:24pm Wed 1 Aug 07

If Atlanta House had compassion they would have set up a charity not a company. I have compassion for those, who through no fault of their own, are less fortunately, but this isn't the issue. Girls with eating disorders is one thing but adolescent boys on bail is something very different. What crimes will they have committed to be on bail? Violence, stabbing, theft, sexual assaults? How much compassion did they have for their victims?

I am concerned that they are saying it will be girls with eating disorders to shut us up and then one day we wake up and find a bail hostel. If not wanting a bail hostel in my back yard makes me a NIMBY then yes I am and any normal, law abiding person would be.

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Sally Hobbs, Bickley says...
6:33pm Wed 1 Aug 07

I think its time for the do-gooders to stop ignoring the facts.So far Precision care have lied and acted in a totally underhand manner,this is a company that would be responsible for some very vulnerable and troublesome people. I think we would be doing these people a huge favor by saving them from such an unscrupulous company.

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Resident of, Bickley says...
6:39pm Wed 1 Aug 07

Sally, you are so right.

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Single mother of one, Bickley says...
7:57pm Wed 1 Aug 07

I am not against young people rehabilitating if they have been abused or have had troubled childhoods, they certainly deserve a better life! I am against the type of offender they have proposed to place in Atlanta House.

This particular 'care home' is adjacent to 4 elderly homes and in an area which is already troubled by some 'adolescent trouble makers'. The police cope quite well with the present amount of offenders. People move here for peace, quiet and to live in a safe neighbourhood.

You could argue that these boys need to rehabilitate somewhere but surely they should be in an area served better by the police and officials so they don't offend again. A free-reign in a quiet, respectable area would not prevent re-offending but encourage it. The residents in this area shouldn't have to live in fear of walking down the street. We all would have moved somewhere else if we had chosen that lifestyle!

I don't know who this Social Care person is but apart from sounding quite out-of-it at times, they really are missing the point with the protest here!

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charles gwilliams, Oldfield Road Bickley says...
8:41pm Wed 1 Aug 07

Socail care -Bickley/Bromley/Bec

kenham.
Lets stop all this nimby nonsence,if you care so much about those less fortunate than yourself,why not get a job working with these type of children or do you already? Give these kids a chance,get real,the so called adolescent boys who were due to be housed in Atlanta House have probably had plenty of chances,you dont end up in secure units if its your first offence,from my experiance within institutions these kids can be very manipulative and devious to get their own way,when they dont get their own way they resort to violent and desructive behavoir.

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Q, Bickley says...
8:57pm Wed 1 Aug 07

Teenagers these days are a far cry of teenagers 10 or 20 years ago. They are mostly well behaved, but people can't be so naive!! They are wanting to home adolescents who have commited offences, they don't care about who they've caused pain to. They don't respect the comunity around them so why should we have to house these thugs and welcome them into such a wonderful community!! I'm 20 and haved lived in bickley all my life. Why don't you fuddyduddys stop being so naive and open your eyes to todays world!

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J.C..Bickley, Bickley says...
10:08pm Wed 1 Aug 07

WHAT ABOUT THE GOOD PARENTS.

It has been mentioned that these young adults are more than likely the result of bad parenting.I dont disagree,I on the other hand have put a lot of effort into bringing my children up in the right way,I dont see why I should now have to put my childrens safety at risk because of other peoples mistakes.

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Single mother of one, Bickley says...
11:24pm Wed 1 Aug 07

JC Bickley

Totally agree with you J.C, I have a budding teenager myself and it's her future at risk here alongside the many more children in the area!

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Social Care, Orpington says...
7:13am Thu 2 Aug 07

My final comment.
The time has come to gather by the village pump with pitchforks and torches and head off to Castle Frankenstein

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Anon, Bickley says...
9:39am Thu 2 Aug 07

Get in the real word Social Care. If they house these kids in bickley the whole area wil be awash with hoodies hanging around on corners causing trouble. as JC said why should we pay for other parents mistakes?! Bottom line is that Bickley is a lovely area to live in and i do not want it tarnised by Chavs. you seem to be the only one on here that doesnt think its a good idea. and one other thing. who exactly is paying for all of this....oh yeah...us. so the higher band council tax i pay goes towards re-housing these chavs on my own doorstep!?!?!?!?

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Terrafirma, Petts Wood says...
10:09am Thu 2 Aug 07

Well Social Care you don't seem to live in the same place - Bickley, Bromley, Beckenham now Orpington - do you even live in Bromley Borough at all! Why make such a stupid comment when all these folk in Bickley are trying to do is prevent Precision Care
using the house as a Bail Hostel and not as originally stated for kids with eating disorders. The people moved to the area because they wanted to - these kids would probably have been brought in from anywhere in the country and would have scant regard for how they treated other people and their surroundings. These kids only think
of one person THEMSELVES!

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Concerned, Bromley says...
11:12am Thu 2 Aug 07

To single mother of one, Bickley. By the look of these "nimby" postings on this article, once they've ridded their Parrish of the kids it'll be single mothers next...

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Terrafirma, Petts Wood says...
11:29am Thu 2 Aug 07

To concerned: I think these "nimbys" should be congratulated for not standing by and letting elements who do not have any regard to law and or the social fabric of society rampage through their neighbourhood. Single mothers should be praised for the difficult job of bringing up children while holding down one or more jobs - I know several in this position and they are
an integral part of the community and their children aren't out of control.

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Concerned, Bromley says...
12:48pm Thu 2 Aug 07

Terrafirma, do you know the children that are going to be placed at Atlanta house? Seen their "files" by any chance? of course you haven't and nor have any of those other scaremongering "nimbys" you applaud. With regard to my comments for the single mother I was purely taking the opportunity to point out to her that once these organised groups have a bit of success with one "unacceptable" group they find another and single mums get a lots of bad press dont they?

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Concerned, Bromley says...
12:52pm Thu 2 Aug 07

Terrafirma, Do you know the children that are going to be placed at Atlanta House? read their files? of course you haven't and nor have any of the other scaremongering "nimbys" on this site. As regards to my mention of single mothers I was just pointing out that once these organised groups get their teeth into "unacceptable" elements of society, well single mothers get a lot of bad press don't they?

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Landlord, Orpington says...
1:44pm Thu 2 Aug 07

I have followed these postings with some interest as a landlord of a property in Bickley, not too far away from the proposed childrens home. I have read the articles, looked at the objectors website and retrieved a copy of the decision notice for Proposed Use. There is also the small matter of the Community Care Act to take into account and Bromley Councils approach to it. The act states that 85% of care in the community should be provided by the private sector. This was the green light for Bromley to decimate its social care commitment and it sold off everything that wasnt nailed down, used the money to buy a claw hammer and then sold off the rest. When you put this beside the alleged support of Cllr Jenkins, who recently sold the whole community of Orpington down the river with Tescos planning application because as Tesco already had an initial permission any attempt to stop them at the second stage would have resulted in a costly appeal.
Precision Care also holds a Council document stating that planning permission is not required and they can open a home for four children. The document has no conditions on as to what the needs of the children should be and Cllr Jenkins has already shown hes not the man to spend Council Tax to protect communities. With regards to Bob Neill every picture I see of him shows him grinning inanely with his thumb up, hes no Eric Forth and I think what you see is what you get. The protests of the action group are way over the top and will therefore get a reaction from those on the left. Trading insults solves nothing and I am resigning myself to the fact that Precision Care holds all the Aces in this instance. Perhaps Cllr Jenkins or Bob Neill would like to comment?

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Sally Hobbs, bickley says...
2:54pm Thu 2 Aug 07

To Landlord of Bickley.

Firstly I have to say,the concerns of the action group are far from over the top,They are totally just according to the facts. Secondly you see no point in other people trading insults,but its fine for you to insult Bob Neil,throw accusations at Cllr Jenkins. I suggest you start to practice what you preach.

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Landlord, Orpington says...
3:19pm Thu 2 Aug 07

Sally Hobbs, This is a classic example of what I was trying to get over. There's no thought in any of this just aggressive response from all sides. I have as much to lose as you do and I have no axe to grind with either Cllr Jenkins or Bob Neill. I was just trying to point out that it isn't really an avenue you can rely on. Precision have the lawful proposed use document, a legal document. Why don't you try a bit of negotiation with them instead of confrontation?

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Resident of Bickley, Bickley says...
3:37pm Thu 2 Aug 07

Sally Hobbs, I can't understand your attack on Landlord of Bickley. This individual has done their bit of research and made their point.
Can you put your trust in Politicians? Have they done anything to help as yet? You are dealng with a corporate machine here probably with massive resources. I am in the same boat as you and I can't help, but feel reasonable argument is slipping away here.

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Resident of Bickley, Bickley says...
4:16pm Thu 2 Aug 07

If your in the same boat start rowing.

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Orpington Ghost Town, Orpington says...
4:18pm Thu 2 Aug 07

Hobbs, Landlords "accusations" regards Cllr Jenkins are public record. He took professional advice and avoided a messy, costly appeal. He did what he thought was right. I don't think Landlord was knocking him at all, but if your opinion is the only one that counts...

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annon, bickley says...
4:59pm Thu 2 Aug 07

Sally you sure seem to have hit a sore point.Can I ask the ghost why do you care if you live in orpington atlanta house wont be in your back yard.

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Q, Bicley says...
6:49pm Thu 2 Aug 07

Isn't it funny that most of the people arguing with Sarah Hobbs don't live in bickley!Landlord you live in orpington, oh and so does orpington ghost town oh and to Concerned stop being so naive, I'm a nimby and bloody proud of it, ALRIGHT!!

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Q, Bickley says...
7:37pm Thu 2 Aug 07

Comment to Concerned, we care about our community something you'd know nothing about. Oh and have you seen these kids files then?? Familys live here, weather they be single mothers, fathers or 2.4 children. Maybe you'd like a theif,arsonist or even a rapist living on your doorstep, no didn't think so neither!!!

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Dave, says...
12:10am Fri 3 Aug 07

So many Do-Gooders at social Care but so few Good-Dooers!
Has anyone any idea how much Precision Care is getting paid for each "Child"? Does £2000+ a month Surprise you? I heard from another source that it was double this figure - Check it out and see for yourself. This is purely a money-making Scheme regardless of the consequences to our neighbourhood.
These Kids today are the Criminals of tomorrow have no qualms about that!
God help them if I catch them loitering near my house.

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Annon Bickley, Bickley says...
6:56pm Fri 3 Aug 07

Dear do-gooders.

If you really do intend on doing good,please vote against Atlanta house the action group have done their reserch the evidence is clear to see.Precision care are wolfs in sheeps clothing ,The proof is in the pudding, if they had only good intentions why did they feel the need to mislead the council when applying for the certificate of lawfulness.

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Another resident of, Bickley says...
3:57pm Sat 4 Aug 07

You can vote and read the facts at www.yourbickley.co.u
k

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Landlord, Orpington says...
8:32am Tue 7 Aug 07

I have just been looking through your "No to Atlanta House" website and I notice that I am ridiculed again about what Precision Care applied for and what they want. Yes, they did apply for a care home for anorexics, but there Certificate says "Use as a residential childrens care home for a maximum of 4 children" no speifics, no conditions, nothing.

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annon, Bickley says...
11:30am Tue 7 Aug 07

For gods sake please open your eyes a bit wider. READ THE FULL FACTS.

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annon, Bickley says...
10:57am Fri 10 Aug 07

How much longer is it going to take for Precision care to do the right thing,and pull out of Bickley.The RESIDENTS of BICKLEY have made their feelings crystal clear Precision care you are not wanted here.

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Q, Bickley says...
6:25pm Tue 11 Sep 07

OI landlord if your so up for atlanta house to go ahead then why don't you move here and see how you like it!!!!! idoit!!

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smell, bromley says...
8:58pm Thu 15 Nov 07

Ive just read all our comments and i am not far from this location. We have enough problems with scores of teenagers from nearby estates aswell as entertaining Precision Care residents. I am already strugglng to steer my sons away from such troublesome people sadly that aint the case all the time. So another load of troublesome kids which we know are going to end fighting with the already local kids is just asking for trouble.

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Termafirma, Bickley says...
12:47am Mon 3 Dec 07

Just noticed a For Sale board on Atlanta House so it looks as though Precision Care have withdrawn their proposal for troublesome kids. Hope the new purchaser is going to use it as a residence and not a business (we shall see!!!!)

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Alex666, Palmers Green says...
4:25pm Sun 23 Nov 08

Would someone be able to tell me the outcome of this care home proposal? I have a similar situation in my neighbourhood with regards to the development of two terraced properties as homes for 6 people in each house recovering from mental ill health with two paid staff, which have just been passed under Certificate of Lawfulness. I feel that this is an unfair law which is open to abuse by unscrupulous property developers and should be tightened up. I feel that residents should be able to have their say about any residential care homes developed in their area, no matter who will be residing in them, and not be effectively gagged. I think it is an infringement of our rights. I posted a blog about this and was accused of being a snob, and a nimby with a few other nasty things thrown in. Is there anyone out there who also thinks that Certificate of Lawfulness should be tightened up and that residents should be allowed to have their say with regards to care home developments? Is anything being done to try to get this law tightened up? Please let me know if there is.

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