Farnborough Plane Crash
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Fears airport will increase flights
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| Residents fear a repeat of crash if airport expanded |
RESIDENTS living under the flight path to Biggin Hill Airport say they would oppose plans to increase flights following the plane crash.
Flightpath, which was formed in 1999, and campaigns against expansion of the airport, claims Biggin Hill Airport Limited (BHAL) wants to increase the number of passengers passing through each year.
On Sunday (March 30) five people died when the plane they were travelling in crashed into two houses in Romsey Close, Farnborough.
The airport, which is only used by non-commerical flights, has twice been proposed for expansion in the last eight years.
Owners Bromley Council leased the site to BHAL on the condition it is not used for commerical flights where passengers pay a fare.
Flightpath's acting chairman, Ray Watson, said: "I think it's really sad it's taken this terrible tragedy to focus on safety at the airport.
"Residents have consistently said they do not want any international airport in the crowded suburbs of a London borough.
"In fact, tens of thousands of people live and work under the flight path, and this crash occured within quarter of a mile of a major hospital and close to a school."
The airport is owned by Bromley Council, who leased the site to BHAL.
In 1999, the council rejected BHAL's request to change the lease to allow one million fare paying passengers to fly in and out of the airport each year.
BHAL consulted Bromley borough residents in 2005 about allowing 500,000 fare paying passengers to use the airport.
According to Flightpath, out of 4,150 responses, 4,131 opposed it (99.54 per cent) while just 17 were in favour and two wanted to debate the issue.
Tim Collison, who lives in Broadwater Gardens, which leads into the crash site, says he would petition against any proposal to increase flights.
The 25-year-old barista said: "Bromley Council have said no to it already, so we're going to say no.
"We don't want any more air traffic over here.
"If that happened to a small jet, imagine a big jet - imagine a jumbo.
"You've got a school, a hospital, kids playing in the streets.
"It'd be disastrous if they expanded the airport."
Another resident Mary Bryant, aged 62, said: "I don't think they should expand it because we have too many planes going over here.
"They fly quite low."
A grandmother who lives round the corner in Isabella Drive and did not wish to be named, was also against any plans to expand.
She said: "The problem is they come over extremely low.
"There are times when they seem to have a bit of trouble clearing houses.
"The crash was inevitable - the number of times I've stood at the front and thought it's going to happen."
John Horam, MP for Orpington, shares residents' feelings and says the flight path should be diverted.
He said: "Expansion has been a bone of contention for many years.
"The crash confirms residents' views that there are problems with being under the approach to an airport.
"One of the problems with the airport is the direct approach means planes have to fly low over our local hospital, schools as well as residential areas."
Andrew Walters, chief executive of Regional Airports Limited, owners of BHAL, said: "We understand concerns over expansion however we have no plans to look at increasing the maximum number of movements at the airport and we currently see less flights than we did a few years ago."
5:10pm Wednesday 2nd April 2008
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CommentPosted by: Bromgal, Kent on 8:28pm Wed 2 Apr 08
I think that it's deplorable that the MP John Horam is using this tragedy to influence his argument against the expansion of Biggin Hill Airport.
If the airport's flight path has been such a 'bone of contention' for so many years, why did Bromley Council approve housing estates being built underneath it?
As has been said before the airport was there years before these houses were, so the airport's development and benefits to the local infrastructure have to suffer because of poor planning by Bromley Council?
I think that it's deplorable that the MP John Horam is using this tragedy to influence his argument against the expansion of Biggin Hill Airport.
If the airport's flight path has been such a 'bone of contention' for so many years, why did Bromley Council approve housing estates being built underneath it?
As has been said before the airport was there years before these houses were, so the airport's development and benefits to the local infrastructure have to suffer because of poor planning by Bromley Council?
Posted by: Wot's Occuring, Everywhere on 10:13am Thu 3 Apr 08
Yes and no Bromgal
Mr Horam knows well that there is no 'expansion' allowed under ther terms of the lease and should just say so in a forthright manner.
You're point about Bromley Council is just plain silly though. Check your dates and see what was built and when, then compare it to the change of use in the airport and have another go.
Yes and no Bromgal
Mr Horam knows well that there is no 'expansion' allowed under ther terms of the lease and should just say so in a forthright manner.
You're point about Bromley Council is just plain silly though. Check your dates and see what was built and when, then compare it to the change of use in the airport and have another go.
Posted by: Wot's Occuring, Everywhere on 10:19am Thu 3 Apr 08
Or even 'Your' before M'lud gives me a flea in the ear and 500 lines !
Or even 'Your' before M'lud gives me a flea in the ear and 500 lines !
Posted by: Josh Strang, Bromley on 10:43am Thu 3 Apr 08
Not silly at all.
Biggin Hill Airport commenced flying in 1920. How many housing estates, schools, hospitals were built in the surrounding area after 1920? The vast majority one would assume. Particularly in the post war era.
Considering how heavily the airport was used during WWII during the Battle of Britain, one would have thought that Bromley Council would have realised what an essential service the airport provided and made allowances for the flight path.
Not silly at all.
Biggin Hill Airport commenced flying in 1920. How many housing estates, schools, hospitals were built in the surrounding area after 1920? The vast majority one would assume. Particularly in the post war era.
Considering how heavily the airport was used during WWII during the Battle of Britain, one would have thought that Bromley Council would have realised what an essential service the airport provided and made allowances for the flight path.
Posted by: julie, st pauls cray kent on 10:50am Thu 3 Apr 08
i lived on the estate for 20years before moving off 5years ago and not once have i heard people moaning about the flight path and how dangerously low the planes fly no one moans every year when the biggin hill air fair starts people pay to go and see it and they even sit in their gardens watching it from the estate in the past kids have even sat on garage roof tops
all the anti air port people are doing is using the tragic acciendent to stop things if this hadnt happened then you wouldnt be reading about it today they should be thinking about the lives that were lost and their families not writing this rubbish
i lived on the estate for 20years before moving off 5years ago and not once have i heard people moaning about the flight path and how dangerously low the planes fly no one moans every year when the biggin hill air fair starts people pay to go and see it and they even sit in their gardens watching it from the estate in the past kids have even sat on garage roof tops
all the anti air port people are doing is using the tragic acciendent to stop things if this hadnt happened then you wouldnt be reading about it today they should be thinking about the lives that were lost and their families not writing this rubbish
Posted by: Wot's Occuring, Everywhere on 4:06pm Thu 3 Apr 08
Josh, that's not just silly, it's pretty **** stupid.
It was an Air Force base from a different era built before jet engines were invented.
As such, flight paths were completely diferrent as planes in those days were not only far more manouevrable, but planes accessing the airport didn't have to conform to other 'stacks' around Heathrow, Gatwick, London City etc....
Perhaps a 5 mile building exclusion zone around every airport would be a good idea ?
Perhaps 6
Perhaps 7
What do you reckon ?
By the way, as you're so good at predicting the future, any chance you can let us know who's going to win the Grand National on Saturday ?
Josh, that's not just silly, it's pretty **** stupid.
It was an Air Force base from a different era built before jet engines were invented.
As such, flight paths were completely diferrent as planes in those days were not only far more manouevrable, but planes accessing the airport didn't have to conform to other 'stacks' around Heathrow, Gatwick, London City etc....
Perhaps a 5 mile building exclusion zone around every airport would be a good idea ?
Perhaps 6
Perhaps 7
What do you reckon ?
By the way, as you're so good at predicting the future, any chance you can let us know who's going to win the Grand National on Saturday ?
Posted by: Wot's Happening, Everywhere on 4:10pm Thu 3 Apr 08
Impressive filter Ed .
I only said d*mn and got four Stars
Just as well I didn't say Livingstone !
Impressive filter Ed .
I only said d*mn and got four Stars
Just as well I didn't say Livingstone !
Posted by: concerned, bromley borough on 11:28pm Thu 3 Apr 08
I think that instead of expanding Biggin Hill airport, scaling it down would be worth considering.
Over the past couple of years there has been a few crashes involving aircraft from Biggin Hill. If you look in to the history of the airshow alone there have been numerous deaths.
Maybe its time that the people on high (such as councellor Horam) took in to account how built up the area surrounding Biggin Hill is and, whilst i don't want to see any of the pilots out of a job, scale down activity at Biggin Hill airport before even more lives are lost. My thoughts are with the families of all the victims.
I think that instead of expanding Biggin Hill airport, scaling it down would be worth considering.
Over the past couple of years there has been a few crashes involving aircraft from Biggin Hill. If you look in to the history of the airshow alone there have been numerous deaths.
Maybe its time that the people on high (such as councellor Horam) took in to account how built up the area surrounding Biggin Hill is and, whilst i don't want to see any of the pilots out of a job, scale down activity at Biggin Hill airport before even more lives are lost. My thoughts are with the families of all the victims.
Posted by: Josh Strang, Bromley on 9:29am Fri 4 Apr 08
Wot's Occuring, you really are unnecessarily rude. Are you a member of Flightpath by any chance?
You don't need a crystal ball and a black cat to predict that if you have an Airport already in existence then planes are going to fly in and out of it. Why build housing estates right next door to it (I'm talking post 1950's, and there is in fact another housing estate currently under construction directly opposite the main entrance) and [italic]then[/italic] complain about the noise and traffic from the airport? [bold]That's[/bold] stupid.
Can we all assume that your good self and MP Horam and all of those who are opposed to the Airport don't fly anywhere in planes, ever. Oh you do? But you just fly out of Gatwick or Heathrow and right over someone elses' back garden.
Hypocrites.
Wot's Occuring, you really are unnecessarily rude. Are you a member of Flightpath by any chance?
You don't need a crystal ball and a black cat to predict that if you have an Airport already in existence then planes are going to fly in and out of it. Why build housing estates right next door to it (I'm talking post 1950's, and there is in fact another housing estate currently under construction directly opposite the main entrance) and
then complain about the noise and traffic from the airport?
That's stupid.
Can we all assume that your good self and MP Horam and all of those who are opposed to the Airport don't fly anywhere in planes, ever. Oh you do? But you just fly out of Gatwick or Heathrow and right over someone elses' back garden.
Hypocrites.
Posted by: L, Keston on 12:55pm Fri 4 Apr 08
I live near Keston and on a number of occassions heard planes taking off early morning around 5.30-6.00 am. These sound like Jet engine Airbus /Boeing not the smaller single prop type or Lear jets that usually fly in and out. Have I been imaginging this.
I live near Keston and on a number of occassions heard planes taking off early morning around 5.30-6.00 am. These sound like Jet engine Airbus /Boeing not the smaller single prop type or Lear jets that usually fly in and out. Have I been imaginging this.
Posted by: Laura S, Kent on 1:54pm Fri 4 Apr 08
Yes L, you must have been dreaming about planes.
The employees of the airport start (at the very earliest) at 6.30am for 7am flights - I should know I live with a staff member. Anything you've heard before then must be from elsewhere, because the planes can't take off when the airport isn't staffed.
The airport is not licensed for large passenger/domestic aircraft such as the ones you're hearing. It's probably the traffic going to Gatwick or Heathrow which starts around that time.
People tend to forget the fact that large planes are stacked and fly over the same area into those airports and put the noise down to Biggin Hill.
Yes L, you must have been dreaming about planes.
The employees of the airport start (at the very earliest) at 6.30am for 7am flights - I should know I live with a staff member. Anything you've heard before then must be from elsewhere, because the planes can't take off when the airport isn't staffed.
The airport is not licensed for large passenger/domestic aircraft such as the ones you're hearing. It's probably the traffic going to Gatwick or Heathrow which starts around that time.
People tend to forget the fact that large planes are stacked and fly over the same area into those airports and put the noise down to Biggin Hill.
Posted by: John M, Orpington on 4:26pm Fri 4 Apr 08
I don't think the airport should be expanded anymore. After the unfortunate crash i have realised how low planes actually fly over my house being on the jet flight path. It did not worry me before the crash but as the plane flew over my house at about 30 foot it now does worry me. Especially every time i hear a jet aircraft i have to look out and see where it is.
I don't think the airport should be expanded anymore. After the unfortunate crash i have realised how low planes actually fly over my house being on the jet flight path. It did not worry me before the crash but as the plane flew over my house at about 30 foot it now does worry me. Especially every time i hear a jet aircraft i have to look out and see where it is.
Posted by: l, keston on 2:34pm Sun 6 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Laura S[/bold] wrote:
Yes L, you must have been dreaming about planes. The employees of the airport start (at the very earliest) at 6.30am for 7am flights - I should know I live with a staff member. Anything you've heard before then must be from elsewhere, because the planes can't take off when the airport isn't staffed. The airport is not licensed for large passenger/domestic aircraft such as the ones you're hearing. It's probably the traffic going to Gatwick or Heathrow which starts around that time. People tend to forget the fact that large planes are stacked and fly over the same area into those airports and put the noise down to Biggin Hill. [/quote] Laura
You sound like a bit of a know all.
Oviously I haven't been dreaming .As you say the planes are stacking to fly into Gatwick or Heathrow,so I have been hearing something.
For your information about licensing.The site is leased to BHAL on the condition it is not used for commerical flights where passengers pay a fare. So this does not apply to larger Larger planes who may be carrying freight/Cargo etc.Indeed I recall Biggin Hill has been used used to refit larger aircraft.So it is possible that larger planes have been using the airport.
Laura S wrote:
Yes L, you must have been dreaming about planes. The employees of the airport start (at the very earliest) at 6.30am for 7am flights - I should know I live with a staff member. Anything you've heard before then must be from elsewhere, because the planes can't take off when the airport isn't staffed. The airport is not licensed for large passenger/domestic aircraft such as the ones you're hearing. It's probably the traffic going to Gatwick or Heathrow which starts around that time. People tend to forget the fact that large planes are stacked and fly over the same area into those airports and put the noise down to Biggin Hill.
Laura
You sound like a bit of a know all.
Oviously I haven't been dreaming .As you say the planes are stacking to fly into Gatwick or Heathrow,so I have been hearing something.
For your information about licensing.The site is leased to BHAL on the condition it is not used for commerical flights where passengers pay a fare. So this does not apply to larger Larger planes who may be carrying freight/Cargo etc.Indeed I recall Biggin Hill has been used used to refit larger aircraft.So it is possible that larger planes have been using the airport.
Posted by: Wot's Occuring, Everywhere on 9:08pm Sun 6 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Josh Strang[/bold] wrote:
Wot's Occuring, you really are unnecessarily rude. Are you a member of Flightpath by any chance? You don't need a crystal ball and a black cat to predict that if you have an Airport already in existence then planes are going to fly in and out of it. Why build housing estates right next door to it (I'm talking post 1950's, and there is in fact another housing estate currently under construction directly opposite the main entrance) and [italic]then[/italic] complain about the noise and traffic from the airport? [bold]That's[/bold] stupid. Can we all assume that your good self and MP Horam and all of those who are opposed to the Airport don't fly anywhere in planes, ever. Oh you do? But you just fly out of Gatwick or Heathrow and right over someone elses' back garden. Hypocrites.[/quote] I suggest you stop bumping your gums in ignorance and shouting the odds incorrectly and read my postings again Josh (rhymes with Tosh)
Where did it say I was against the airport.
Answer, nowhere.
Mouth/Brain/Gear !
Josh Strang wrote:
Wot's Occuring, you really are unnecessarily rude. Are you a member of Flightpath by any chance? You don't need a crystal ball and a black cat to predict that if you have an Airport already in existence then planes are going to fly in and out of it. Why build housing estates right next door to it (I'm talking post 1950's, and there is in fact another housing estate currently under construction directly opposite the main entrance) and then complain about the noise and traffic from the airport? That's stupid. Can we all assume that your good self and MP Horam and all of those who are opposed to the Airport don't fly anywhere in planes, ever. Oh you do? But you just fly out of Gatwick or Heathrow and right over someone elses' back garden. Hypocrites.
I suggest you stop bumping your gums in ignorance and shouting the odds incorrectly and read my postings again Josh (rhymes with Tosh)
Where did it say I was against the airport.
Answer, nowhere.
Mouth/Brain/Gear !
Posted by: Laura S, Kent on 9:20pm Sun 6 Apr 08
How does passing on relevant information make me a know all?
Biggin Hill is the location of one of the four "stacks" for aircraft landing at Heathrow Airport, and is used by aircraft approaching from the south east.
It's clear some people don't like to hear facts on here, I should imagine because they don't like to be proved wrong.
You're correct, they do fly cargo planes in and out of the airport. It involves amongst other things, upping the fire category of the airport as they have to have more cover available depending on the size of the aircraft. It's not something that happens on a regular basis and certainly not before 6am in the morning. If they did that then they would be in breach of their contract with the council, and I doubt that Regional Airports Limited (who own BHAL and the license to the airport) would risk that.
How does passing on relevant information make me a know all?
Biggin Hill is the location of one of the four "stacks" for aircraft landing at Heathrow Airport, and is used by aircraft approaching from the south east.
It's clear some people don't like to hear facts on here, I should imagine because they don't like to be proved wrong.
You're correct, they do fly cargo planes in and out of the airport. It involves amongst other things, upping the fire category of the airport as they have to have more cover available depending on the size of the aircraft. It's not something that happens on a regular basis and certainly not before 6am in the morning. If they did that then they would be in breach of their contract with the council, and I doubt that Regional Airports Limited (who own BHAL and the license to the airport) would risk that.
Posted by: Laura S, Kent on 9:29pm Sun 6 Apr 08
Wot's Occuring, what is your problem with Josh? I think he has some quite valid points - you haven't, and I can't really understand what it is you're harping on about. Nor do I see why you have to call people 'silly' or 'stupid' for no good reason it would appear.
I see you've played the 'ignorance' card. People with no valid response normally do.
No doubt you'll come back with a witty name calling post. Are you sure you're not an alias of his Lordship?
Wot's Occuring, what is your problem with Josh? I think he has some quite valid points - you haven't, and I can't really understand what it is you're harping on about. Nor do I see why you have to call people 'silly' or 'stupid' for no good reason it would appear.
I see you've played the 'ignorance' card. People with no valid response normally do.
No doubt you'll come back with a witty name calling post. Are you sure you're not an alias of his Lordship?
Posted by: Wot's Occuring, Everywhere on 10:25pm Sun 6 Apr 08
My first problem with Josh is that he is factually inaccurate.
My second is that he
doesn't read posts properly.
And my third is that as a result he infers I'm against the airport
Apart from that I think he's ace.
My first problem with Josh is that he is factually inaccurate.
My second is that he
doesn't read posts properly.
And my third is that as a result he infers I'm against the airport
Apart from that I think he's ace.
Posted by: Laura S, Kent on 10:51pm Sun 6 Apr 08
I think the responses to your posts were perfectly fair and factual enough for a short comment on a news article. Plus there wasn't really anything of significance that you said for people to respond to. All you've done in return is call people 'silly,' 'stupid' and 'ignorant'. That is rude, I have to agree.
You obviously just enjoy critising people and can't be bothered to justify why. That's a little bit sad really.
I think the responses to your posts were perfectly fair and factual enough for a short comment on a news article. Plus there wasn't really anything of significance that you said for people to respond to. All you've done in return is call people 'silly,' 'stupid' and 'ignorant'. That is rude, I have to agree.
You obviously just enjoy critising people and can't be bothered to justify why. That's a little bit sad really.
Posted by: Wot's Occuring, Everywhere on 7:36am Mon 7 Apr 08
As you're as determined to act even more remedially than as him, let me join the dots for you and ask you a question or two ....
What year did "Bromley Council" come into existence and what "housing estates were built underneath it" (the flightpath)
As you're as determined to act even more remedially than as him, let me join the dots for you and ask you a question or two ....
What year did "Bromley Council" come into existence and what "housing estates were built underneath it" (the flightpath)
Posted by: Laura S, Kent on 8:56am Mon 7 Apr 08
Wot. I do not proclaim to know the ins and outs of a duck's backside like you.
Bromley council was formed on April 1st 1965. Prior to that it was possibly still run by KCC. The point is someone authorised the construction of houses near to the airport before and after 1965 and will continue to do so for the forseeable future.
I do not know which housing estates are under the flight path - does it really matter that much? Quite why you find the need to split hairs on the subject is questionable.
Perhaps you could enlighten us rather than just being a know all?
Wot. I do not proclaim to know the ins and outs of a duck's backside like you.
Bromley council was formed on April 1st 1965. Prior to that it was possibly still run by KCC. The point is someone authorised the construction of houses near to the airport before and after 1965 and will continue to do so for the forseeable future.
I do not know which housing estates are under the flight path - does it really matter that much? Quite why you find the need to split hairs on the subject is questionable.
Perhaps you could enlighten us rather than just being a know all?
Posted by: Adrian H, Farnborough Village on 12:18pm Wed 9 Apr 08
When I moved to Farnborough it seemed the smaller prop based planes would follow the A21 before banking round to make their approach to the runway. They still do so today. This avoids most the houses and suited all.
It is since the airport has been following the money and have been expanding facilities to attract the LearJets clientele have there been problems. These jets need a far larger turning circle and so they come over the schools and hospitals at a very low level. Farnborough being on a hill.
It’s a fact that this infrastructure is now on the flight path, and we can’t turn back the clock. Why do people think the RAF moved out in the first place? Once they had jets they realised they would need facilities away from urban areas.
It is since the airport has been following the money and have been expanding facilities to attract the LearJets clientelle have their been problems. These jets need a far larger turning circle and so they come over the schools and hospitals at a very low level. Farnborough being on a hill.
When I moved to Farnborough it seemed the smaller prop based planes would follow the A21 before banking round to make their approach to the runway. They still do so today. This avoids most the houses and suited all.
It is since the airport has been following the money and have been expanding facilities to attract the LearJets clientele have there been problems. These jets need a far larger turning circle and so they come over the schools and hospitals at a very low level. Farnborough being on a hill.
It’s a fact that this infrastructure is now on the flight path, and we can’t turn back the clock. Why do people think the RAF moved out in the first place? Once they had jets they realised they would need facilities away from urban areas.
It is since the airport has been following the money and have been expanding facilities to attract the LearJets clientelle have their been problems. These jets need a far larger turning circle and so they come over the schools and hospitals at a very low level. Farnborough being on a hill.
Posted by: Wot's Occuring, Everywhere on 4:02pm Wed 9 Apr 08
Hmmm. So let me get this right Sarah.
BROMGAL SAID:
"If the airport's flight path has been such a 'bone of contention' for so many years, why did Bromley Council approve housing estates being built underneath it?"
I REPLIED :
You're point about Bromley Council is just plain silly though. Check your dates and see what was built and when, then compare it to the change of use in the airport and have another go.
YOU THEN SUM UP
I do not know which housing estates are under the flight path - does it really matter that much? Quite why you find the need to split hairs on the subject is questionable.
Seems to me that you're Bromgal in disguise and more than a little bit silly getting involved in a debate that by your own admission you don't know anything about.
Doh
Hmmm. So let me get this right Sarah.
BROMGAL SAID:
"If the airport's flight path has been such a 'bone of contention' for so many years, why did Bromley Council approve housing estates being built underneath it?"
I REPLIED :
You're point about Bromley Council is just plain silly though. Check your dates and see what was built and when, then compare it to the change of use in the airport and have another go.
YOU THEN SUM UP
I do not know which housing estates are under the flight path - does it really matter that much? Quite why you find the need to split hairs on the subject is questionable.
Seems to me that you're Bromgal in disguise and more than a little bit silly getting involved in a debate that by your own admission you don't know anything about.
Doh
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