Nine fire stations in south-east London earmarked for closure

News Shopper: Attendance times will be affected Attendance times will be affected

NINE fire stations in the News Shopper patch, including in Bexley, Greenwich and Woolwich, have been picked out for closure in a devastating new proposal for south-east London.

London Mayor Boris Johnson has told London’s fire service it needs to cut £64m from its two year budget.

London Fire Commissioner Ron Dobson has highlighted £14m of back office cuts, so £50m of cuts need to be found elsewhere.

Two plans will be submitted to the London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority (LFEPA) later this week to recommend where that £50m should fall.

Both plans will see widespread cuts and closures to fire services.

The first plan recommends the closure of fire stations at Bexley, Greenwich, Biggin Hill, Deptford, Downham, Eltham, New Cross, Lee Green and Woolwich.

It also recommends adding a fire engine to Orpington, Lewisham and East Greenwich but removing one from Bromley.

Such as plan would see attendance times pushed dramatically back in some areas.

The alternate plan recommends the closure of Biggin Hill, New Cross, Lee Green and Downham, Deptford fire stations.

That plan also includes fire engines being added to Orpington but engines being removed from Bromley, Hayes, Erith and Sidcup.

The Mayor of London will face questions on the proposals on November 21 in Mayor’s Question Time.

London police authorities, who run its fire stations, will find out from the government in January precisely how much money they will be expected to save.

Once the amount is known, a 10 to 12 week public consultation on the planned cuts will be launched and potentially revised plan will be implemented in June.

A London Fire Brigade spokesperson said: “We expect to be able to maintain our current target response times."

Comments (48)

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11:24am Wed 21 Nov 12

Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott says...

Sad as this might be, it had to come to pass. Gone are the days when fire fighters and their women helpers were paid to play snooker, watch TV and sleep.

It's called progress.
Sad as this might be, it had to come to pass. Gone are the days when fire fighters and their women helpers were paid to play snooker, watch TV and sleep. It's called progress. Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott
  • Score: 0

12:18pm Wed 21 Nov 12

PaulErith says...

Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:
Sad as this might be, it had to come to pass. Gone are the days when fire fighters and their women helpers were paid to play snooker, watch TV and sleep. It's called progress.
Totally ridiculous comment! Wait until you need the fire brigade in an emergency. If a relative of yours ever dies in a house fire because the fire engine has to come from miles away, I take it you'll think that's progress!
[quote][p][bold]Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott[/bold] wrote: Sad as this might be, it had to come to pass. Gone are the days when fire fighters and their women helpers were paid to play snooker, watch TV and sleep. It's called progress.[/p][/quote]Totally ridiculous comment! Wait until you need the fire brigade in an emergency. If a relative of yours ever dies in a house fire because the fire engine has to come from miles away, I take it you'll think that's progress! PaulErith
  • Score: 0

12:28pm Wed 21 Nov 12

highway warrior says...

I can understand that services need to be streamlined and that closing stations can go part way towards that but it seems ridiculous to close stations AND take appliances away from the remaining stations.
Basically increase the area and reduce ability to cope with increased area. Stupidity.
They need to use some of the appliances from the closed stations to the existing ones with space, cutting property overheads and some other costs yet maintaining a decent level of service. It'll only take a major fire or worse still a terrorism incident to realise that the LFB has been cut too much, the ultimate cost will be lives :(
I can understand that services need to be streamlined and that closing stations can go part way towards that but it seems ridiculous to close stations AND take appliances away from the remaining stations. Basically increase the area and reduce ability to cope with increased area. Stupidity. They need to use some of the appliances from the closed stations to the existing ones with space, cutting property overheads and some other costs yet maintaining a decent level of service. It'll only take a major fire or worse still a terrorism incident to realise that the LFB has been cut too much, the ultimate cost will be lives :( highway warrior
  • Score: 0

1:40pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Outandabout says...

I tend to ignore the idiiots on here that see this as modernisation. it's about NOTHING but costs because the LFB management and Boris F up. The London Fire services no longer owns its fire engines or the uniform of fire crews.. It was all given to a private company called Asset Co who went bust. the next company was sold it for £2 and went bust to and now the brigade have to pay a third company, Babcock Engineering to run the brigade's fleet. This is being packaged as reasonable because fire losses are down. So they are. What you don't do is reduce the prtotection that achieved that reduction. Its not only fire stations and fire engines going. It also says above "Such as plan would see attendance times pushed dramatically back in some areas" this means a fire engine will take longer to reach YOU. The Fire Brigade are the only fire and rescue service, besides fires it also attends 'special service incidents' like road accidents. All you will need is another major incident in London that drains the surrounding area of fire engines and people in those areas will die. That isn't progress. So sockpuppets, post away, you really are pathetic
I tend to ignore the idiiots on here that see this as modernisation. it's about NOTHING but costs because the LFB management and Boris F up. The London Fire services no longer owns its fire engines or the uniform of fire crews.. It was all given to a private company called Asset Co who went bust. the next company was sold it for £2 and went bust to and now the brigade have to pay a third company, Babcock Engineering to run the brigade's fleet. This is being packaged as reasonable because fire losses are down. So they are. What you don't do is reduce the prtotection that achieved that reduction. Its not only fire stations and fire engines going. It also says above "Such as plan would see attendance times pushed dramatically back in some areas" this means a fire engine will take longer to reach YOU. The Fire Brigade are the only fire and rescue service, besides fires it also attends 'special service incidents' like road accidents. All you will need is another major incident in London that drains the surrounding area of fire engines and people in those areas will die. That isn't progress. So sockpuppets, post away, you really are pathetic Outandabout
  • Score: 0

2:29pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Gypo.Joe says...

More scare tactics from Outandabout the spokesperson from the Политбюро.
More scare tactics from Outandabout the spokesperson from the Политбюро. Gypo.Joe
  • Score: 0

2:32pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Eagles_Man says...

"Such as plan would see attendance times pushed dramatically back in some areas."

“We expect to be able to maintain our current target response times."

So which is it?

As an observation, though, I do remember once a fire officer pointing out that you wouldn't put a new fire station in the middle of Bromley Town Centre today, since most of the time the appliances are attending shouts in areas like Downham ... which is where an extra pump is going.
"Such as plan would see attendance times pushed dramatically back in some areas." “We expect to be able to maintain our current target response times." So which is it? As an observation, though, I do remember once a fire officer pointing out that you wouldn't put a new fire station in the middle of Bromley Town Centre today, since most of the time the appliances are attending shouts in areas like Downham ... which is where an extra pump is going. Eagles_Man
  • Score: 0

3:54pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Virtual-Monster says...

I think fire cover and health cover in this country should be absolutely sacrosanct and not subject to budgetary restrictions.

Make improvements yes, but reducing cover because we can't afford it is unacceptable.

I doubt Boris or his scum chum Dave at Number Ten are really worried about a few of us plebs burning to death or dying of an entirely curable cancer if it means their corrupt big business friends can fill their pockets.
I think fire cover and health cover in this country should be absolutely sacrosanct and not subject to budgetary restrictions. Make improvements yes, but reducing cover because we can't afford it is unacceptable. I doubt Boris or his scum chum Dave at Number Ten are really worried about a few of us plebs burning to death or dying of an entirely curable cancer if it means their corrupt big business friends can fill their pockets. Virtual-Monster
  • Score: 0

4:22pm Wed 21 Nov 12

screw_your_loaf says...

The list of stations to close, are just proposals at the moment,although there will be station closures it can only be speculated which ones!!
The only thing that you can guarantee is that there will be less fire stations, less fire engines, less fire fighters,
This can only result in longer attendance times, increased fire deaths and injury, greater damage to property, also less fire prevention work meaning an increase in incidents.
As a firefighter it will be great, I will be turning out the doors more attending more incidents and doing what I have trained to do, but as a Londoner I fear the worse, my friends and family live in areas covered by these stations they will be at greater risk.
Take it from the people that know about this stuff, get your self down your local fire station ( while its still there) and let them explain what this means to you and how it will affect you and your families.
Once you have the relevant info you can make an informed decision as to whats what,
The list of stations to close, are just proposals at the moment,although there will be station closures it can only be speculated which ones!! The only thing that you can guarantee is that there will be less fire stations, less fire engines, less fire fighters, This can only result in longer attendance times, increased fire deaths and injury, greater damage to property, also less fire prevention work meaning an increase in incidents. As a firefighter it will be great, I will be turning out the doors more attending more incidents and doing what I have trained to do, but as a Londoner I fear the worse, my friends and family live in areas covered by these stations they will be at greater risk. Take it from the people that know about this stuff, get your self down your local fire station ( while its still there) and let them explain what this means to you and how it will affect you and your families. Once you have the relevant info you can make an informed decision as to whats what, screw_your_loaf
  • Score: 0

4:23pm Wed 21 Nov 12

AndrewSE says...

Loss of fire stations, closure of A&E departments

More evidence of Boris, Dave and their Eton chums complete lack of interest in average Londoners.

I doubt the Standard will mention any of this come the next Mayoral election
Loss of fire stations, closure of A&E departments More evidence of Boris, Dave and their Eton chums complete lack of interest in average Londoners. I doubt the Standard will mention any of this come the next Mayoral election AndrewSE
  • Score: 0

5:23pm Wed 21 Nov 12

zampa says...

Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott, Why do you not use your backside for what it is meant for, instead of talking from it. Be it the day you need the Fire Service!
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott, Why do you not use your backside for what it is meant for, instead of talking from it. Be it the day you need the Fire Service! zampa
  • Score: 0

5:25pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Outandabout says...

Eagles_Man wrote:
"Such as plan would see attendance times pushed dramatically back in some areas." “We expect to be able to maintain our current target response times." So which is it? As an observation, though, I do remember once a fire officer pointing out that you wouldn't put a new fire station in the middle of Bromley Town Centre today, since most of the time the appliances are attending shouts in areas like Downham ... which is where an extra pump is going.
'we expect' is dependant on many factors - you are right about where machines are stationed, they are where the risk is but they are also placed to support other stations. Attendance times are fine if played with provided the nearest station is available. By example, take one staion down to one fire engine and they attend a rubbish bin alight to delay the attendance to a flat on fire 4 minutes from that station. Your next nearest station has closed so the next attends, it isn't fanciful and the attendance time is near to 20 minutes - which is the attendance time in the sticks. I doubt they would tell us there are risks when proposing these measures and people can call this scare tactics all they like but I have been at a fire waiting for backup that was delayed in traffic at a house fire and that was in the 90's before more cuts happened. People forget, or didn't know, that London has lost over 60 fire engines since 1979. It doesn't take much to stretch the service. Part of the money problem is the last govt committed to having regional control centres then shelved the idea. Meanwhile the regional control buildings lie empty costing the tax payer. Google 'empty fire regional control centres' and see how many hits you get.
[quote][p][bold]Eagles_Man[/bold] wrote: "Such as plan would see attendance times pushed dramatically back in some areas." “We expect to be able to maintain our current target response times." So which is it? As an observation, though, I do remember once a fire officer pointing out that you wouldn't put a new fire station in the middle of Bromley Town Centre today, since most of the time the appliances are attending shouts in areas like Downham ... which is where an extra pump is going.[/p][/quote]'we expect' is dependant on many factors - you are right about where machines are stationed, they are where the risk is but they are also placed to support other stations. Attendance times are fine if played with provided the nearest station is available. By example, take one staion down to one fire engine and they attend a rubbish bin alight to delay the attendance to a flat on fire 4 minutes from that station. Your next nearest station has closed so the next attends, it isn't fanciful and the attendance time is near to 20 minutes - which is the attendance time in the sticks. I doubt they would tell us there are risks when proposing these measures and people can call this scare tactics all they like but I have been at a fire waiting for backup that was delayed in traffic at a house fire and that was in the 90's before more cuts happened. People forget, or didn't know, that London has lost over 60 fire engines since 1979. It doesn't take much to stretch the service. Part of the money problem is the last govt committed to having regional control centres then shelved the idea. Meanwhile the regional control buildings lie empty costing the tax payer. Google 'empty fire regional control centres' and see how many hits you get. Outandabout
  • Score: 0

6:47pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott says...

zampa wrote:
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott, Why do you not use your backside for what it is meant for, instead of talking from it. Be it the day you need the Fire Service!
How rude!

It's a shame you couldn't use your very limited imagination to comment on the story instead of attacking my good self.

Then again, one must know one's limitations.
[quote][p][bold]zampa[/bold] wrote: Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott, Why do you not use your backside for what it is meant for, instead of talking from it. Be it the day you need the Fire Service![/p][/quote]How rude! It's a shame you couldn't use your very limited imagination to comment on the story instead of attacking my good self. Then again, one must know one's limitations. Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott
  • Score: 0

8:00pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Bob Downondiss says...

I love how the experts on all things fire creep out of the woodwork on these type stories. Do Boris, Dave and the heads at the London Fire Brigade consult you all before any decisions are made seeing as you are all so expert.

I see one or two of you are also experts on other stories too.
I love how the experts on all things fire creep out of the woodwork on these type stories. Do Boris, Dave and the heads at the London Fire Brigade consult you all before any decisions are made seeing as you are all so expert. I see one or two of you are also experts on other stories too. Bob Downondiss
  • Score: 0

11:06pm Wed 21 Nov 12

mikey_w_999 says...

Some peoples complete ignorance is seriously shocking. Espically over something so important.
Surely if you really cared for you family, friends and even yourself then you wouldnt make such wild and ridiculous comments.
I couldnt agree more with that you should go to your local station and have a chat with the people that are on the front line. Get some solid information and understanding of all their job now involves.
People can talk about attendance times all day/night long but it doesnt take a genius to realise that the further a fire engine has to travel the longer it will take to arrive and when you are talking about fire, seconds cost lives!
Personally i dont feel you can put a price on a life. Saying it wont happen to me doesnt hold up either as it always happens to someone.
They are called the EMERGENCY services for a reason and the last thing anyone should want is to have to wait. Sadly then it could be to late :O(
Some peoples complete ignorance is seriously shocking. Espically over something so important. Surely if you really cared for you family, friends and even yourself then you wouldnt make such wild and ridiculous comments. I couldnt agree more with that you should go to your local station and have a chat with the people that are on the front line. Get some solid information and understanding of all their job now involves. People can talk about attendance times all day/night long but it doesnt take a genius to realise that the further a fire engine has to travel the longer it will take to arrive and when you are talking about fire, seconds cost lives! Personally i dont feel you can put a price on a life. Saying it wont happen to me doesnt hold up either as it always happens to someone. They are called the EMERGENCY services for a reason and the last thing anyone should want is to have to wait. Sadly then it could be to late :O( mikey_w_999
  • Score: 0

8:33am Thu 22 Nov 12

Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott says...

Don't fret, firemen and your women helpers. There are plenty of snooker halls around for you to practise in.
Don't fret, firemen and your women helpers. There are plenty of snooker halls around for you to practise in. Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott
  • Score: 0

11:35am Thu 22 Nov 12

Gypo.Joe says...

Lets get one thing straight mikey_w_999 all you and your 'mates' are really interested in is your cushy jobs. All this fake community cr@p is just that..CR@P.

Its over get used to it or get out because there's plenty that will do your jobs even with all the changes.
All this scare nonsence is just BS from union members. Leave the managing to managers and you do what you're good at. ( I'll leave that one there.)
Lets get one thing straight mikey_w_999 all you and your 'mates' are really interested in is your cushy jobs. All this fake community cr@p is just that..CR@P. Its over get used to it or get out because there's plenty that will do your jobs even with all the changes. All this scare nonsence is just BS from union members. Leave the managing to managers and you do what you're good at. ( I'll leave that one there.) Gypo.Joe
  • Score: 0

11:43am Thu 22 Nov 12

Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott says...

Gypo.Joe wrote:
Lets get one thing straight mikey_w_999 all you and your 'mates' are really interested in is your cushy jobs. All this fake community cr@p is just that..CR@P.

Its over get used to it or get out because there's plenty that will do your jobs even with all the changes.
All this scare nonsence is just BS from union members. Leave the managing to managers and you do what you're good at. ( I'll leave that one there.)
Wise words. Wise words indeed.
[quote][p][bold]Gypo.Joe[/bold] wrote: Lets get one thing straight mikey_w_999 all you and your 'mates' are really interested in is your cushy jobs. All this fake community cr@p is just that..CR@P. Its over get used to it or get out because there's plenty that will do your jobs even with all the changes. All this scare nonsence is just BS from union members. Leave the managing to managers and you do what you're good at. ( I'll leave that one there.)[/p][/quote]Wise words. Wise words indeed. Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott
  • Score: 0

11:52am Thu 22 Nov 12

PaulErith says...

Gypo.Joe wrote:
Lets get one thing straight mikey_w_999 all you and your 'mates' are really interested in is your cushy jobs. All this fake community cr@p is just that..CR@P. Its over get used to it or get out because there's plenty that will do your jobs even with all the changes. All this scare nonsence is just BS from union members. Leave the managing to managers and you do what you're good at. ( I'll leave that one there.)
That really is a very daft comment. A very obvious and basic fact is that if my local station in Bexleyheath is closed, it will take longer for a fire engine to get to my house in an emergency. There's no scare mongering going on. The fact is that those extra few or 10 or 20 minutes that it'll take could be the difference between life and death.
[quote][p][bold]Gypo.Joe[/bold] wrote: Lets get one thing straight mikey_w_999 all you and your 'mates' are really interested in is your cushy jobs. All this fake community cr@p is just that..CR@P. Its over get used to it or get out because there's plenty that will do your jobs even with all the changes. All this scare nonsence is just BS from union members. Leave the managing to managers and you do what you're good at. ( I'll leave that one there.)[/p][/quote]That really is a very daft comment. A very obvious and basic fact is that if my local station in Bexleyheath is closed, it will take longer for a fire engine to get to my house in an emergency. There's no scare mongering going on. The fact is that those extra few or 10 or 20 minutes that it'll take could be the difference between life and death. PaulErith
  • Score: 0

12:03pm Thu 22 Nov 12

Gypo.Joe says...

Leave it to the experts Paul. What exactly are your qualifications in this field. You're guessing, assuming from what union members are spouting on here. Its a shame a real expert from management cant give us the real picture insted of this lefty union biased drivel posted by some on here.
Leave it to the experts Paul. What exactly are your qualifications in this field. You're guessing, assuming from what union members are spouting on here. Its a shame a real expert from management cant give us the real picture insted of this lefty union biased drivel posted by some on here. Gypo.Joe
  • Score: 0

5:48pm Thu 22 Nov 12

chuck liddell says...

gypo joe, you actually seem pleased that some local fire stations may be closing? why? Do you think that you're going to be getting some money back from your council tax or something? And how is community fire safety cr*p, as you say? Part of the reason the London Fire Brigade is quieter than say, 15 years ago, is due to community fire safety and home fire safety visits. This surely is a good thing for members of the public who's smoke alarms and fire planning guidance have saved their lives, no?
gypo joe, you actually seem pleased that some local fire stations may be closing? why? Do you think that you're going to be getting some money back from your council tax or something? And how is community fire safety cr*p, as you say? Part of the reason the London Fire Brigade is quieter than say, 15 years ago, is due to community fire safety and home fire safety visits. This surely is a good thing for members of the public who's smoke alarms and fire planning guidance have saved their lives, no? chuck liddell
  • Score: 0

5:58pm Thu 22 Nov 12

Downhamlad says...

Fire stations are definately something that can't be "centralised"

An extra 5 minutes for a fire engine arriving could be the difference between saving a life or not
Fire stations are definately something that can't be "centralised" An extra 5 minutes for a fire engine arriving could be the difference between saving a life or not Downhamlad
  • Score: 0

6:31pm Thu 22 Nov 12

Gypo.Joe says...

Chuck I'm not please at all. I live in the real world though, not some socialist utopia like most of you would like.

FFS let management manage and you do what ya best at. If it all goes Pete Tong ( which I very much doubt ) I'm sure services will be adjusted to suit by managers. That's what they get paid for !
Chuck I'm not please at all. I live in the real world though, not some socialist utopia like most of you would like. FFS let management manage and you do what ya best at. If it all goes Pete Tong ( which I very much doubt ) I'm sure services will be adjusted to suit by managers. That's what they get paid for ! Gypo.Joe
  • Score: 0

7:37pm Thu 22 Nov 12

chuck liddell says...

gypo, that's the thing, it's not actually run by managers, but politicians, who don't have a clue! They are not only attacking the fire service, but all emergency services and then when they cannot cope, it all gets covered up or smoothed over. And then they try and turn the joe public (like yourself) against them when all the services want to do is help the public and do the job they joined to do!
gypo, that's the thing, it's not actually run by managers, but politicians, who don't have a clue! They are not only attacking the fire service, but all emergency services and then when they cannot cope, it all gets covered up or smoothed over. And then they try and turn the joe public (like yourself) against them when all the services want to do is help the public and do the job they joined to do! chuck liddell
  • Score: 0

7:39pm Thu 22 Nov 12

Keyser So"ze says...

Dear Gypo,
Referring to your 12:03 reply to PaulErith comments, whilst I applaud your efforts to ensure that comments left by other readers are of expert quality I would like to take this opportunity to ask what qualifications in management you hold. Given that you seem to regard un-named managers in such high esteem I can only imagine that you either possess highest qualifications (possibly even a PPE from Birkbeck), or you have little knowledge, but a lot of blind faith, in the abilities of the average manager!
Regarding PaulEriths suitability to comment regarding fire service attendance times and the detrimental effect that this may have on fire survivability, it is generally accepted that the human brain begins to die after being starved of oxygen for three minutes. It is therefore safe to conclude that any delay in fire service attendance will ultimately lead to an increased risk of death or serious injury
Dear Gypo, Referring to your 12:03 reply to PaulErith comments, whilst I applaud your efforts to ensure that comments left by other readers are of expert quality I would like to take this opportunity to ask what qualifications in management you hold. Given that you seem to regard un-named managers in such high esteem I can only imagine that you either possess highest qualifications (possibly even a PPE from Birkbeck), or you have little knowledge, but a lot of blind faith, in the abilities of the average manager! Regarding PaulEriths suitability to comment regarding fire service attendance times and the detrimental effect that this may have on fire survivability, it is generally accepted that the human brain begins to die after being starved of oxygen for three minutes. It is therefore safe to conclude that any delay in fire service attendance will ultimately lead to an increased risk of death or serious injury Keyser So"ze
  • Score: 0

8:09pm Thu 22 Nov 12

Gypo.Joe says...

Chuck so you believe all these politicians make decisions without taking expert advice. I'm sure even the unions have some sort of imput. Your main interest are the jobs, I understand that.

Keyser So"ze all I have to say to you is don't let a user name fool you.
Chuck so you believe all these politicians make decisions without taking expert advice. I'm sure even the unions have some sort of imput. Your main interest are the jobs, I understand that. Keyser So"ze all I have to say to you is don't let a user name fool you. Gypo.Joe
  • Score: 0

8:47pm Thu 22 Nov 12

Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott says...

Keyser So"ze wrote:
Dear Gypo,
Referring to your 12:03 reply to PaulErith comments, whilst I applaud your efforts to ensure that comments left by other readers are of expert quality I would like to take this opportunity to ask what qualifications in management you hold. Given that you seem to regard un-named managers in such high esteem I can only imagine that you either possess highest qualifications (possibly even a PPE from Birkbeck), or you have little knowledge, but a lot of blind faith, in the abilities of the average manager!
Regarding PaulEriths suitability to comment regarding fire service attendance times and the detrimental effect that this may have on fire survivability, it is generally accepted that the human brain begins to die after being starved of oxygen for three minutes. It is therefore safe to conclude that any delay in fire service attendance will ultimately lead to an increased risk of death or serious injury
Joe has always, and still does, manage very well.

Especially when he's nicking the lead from churches and roasting hedgehogs to provide for his family.
[quote][p][bold]Keyser So"ze[/bold] wrote: Dear Gypo, Referring to your 12:03 reply to PaulErith comments, whilst I applaud your efforts to ensure that comments left by other readers are of expert quality I would like to take this opportunity to ask what qualifications in management you hold. Given that you seem to regard un-named managers in such high esteem I can only imagine that you either possess highest qualifications (possibly even a PPE from Birkbeck), or you have little knowledge, but a lot of blind faith, in the abilities of the average manager! Regarding PaulEriths suitability to comment regarding fire service attendance times and the detrimental effect that this may have on fire survivability, it is generally accepted that the human brain begins to die after being starved of oxygen for three minutes. It is therefore safe to conclude that any delay in fire service attendance will ultimately lead to an increased risk of death or serious injury[/p][/quote]Joe has always, and still does, manage very well. Especially when he's nicking the lead from churches and roasting hedgehogs to provide for his family. Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott
  • Score: 0

8:49pm Thu 22 Nov 12

Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott says...

George, south east London should not be hyphenated.
George, south east London should not be hyphenated. Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott
  • Score: 0

9:31pm Thu 22 Nov 12

chuck liddell says...

politicians very often listen to expert advice regarding many decisions. Whether they actually take on that advice is a different thing, and i imagine many senior managers are just 'yes' men to the politicians anyway. The last commissioner of london is now working for the government in a position that was created for him and no doubt, the commissioner of london at this present time will also enter politics when he leaves his current role. For the politicians to keep cutting and cutting vital emergency services can only spell disaster. The population of london is growing and growing, why would you not want emergency services that can cope with the demand?
politicians very often listen to expert advice regarding many decisions. Whether they actually take on that advice is a different thing, and i imagine many senior managers are just 'yes' men to the politicians anyway. The last commissioner of london is now working for the government in a position that was created for him and no doubt, the commissioner of london at this present time will also enter politics when he leaves his current role. For the politicians to keep cutting and cutting vital emergency services can only spell disaster. The population of london is growing and growing, why would you not want emergency services that can cope with the demand? chuck liddell
  • Score: 0

11:58pm Thu 22 Nov 12

Gypo.Joe says...

Right Chuck you tell us all what services we can cut so all you firepeople can carry on with your cushy little numbers. Savings have to be made so what's your suggestion on where. Who gets cuts ? Schools, hospitals, teachers, nurses, doctors, police, do I need go on ?
Right Chuck you tell us all what services we can cut so all you firepeople can carry on with your cushy little numbers. Savings have to be made so what's your suggestion on where. Who gets cuts ? Schools, hospitals, teachers, nurses, doctors, police, do I need go on ? Gypo.Joe
  • Score: 0

11:39am Fri 23 Nov 12

chuck liddell says...

firstly, why is firefighting a cushy little number, as you call it? yes, firefighters do have 'downtime', but most of the time, when not on calls, firefighters are doing community fire safety (oh, sorry cr*p, as you call it) and training. i do agree that cuts need to be made, but my personal feeling is that a potential 31 station closures is far too high and far too dangerous. I am not qualified, and don't pretend to be, to say where the cuts should come from, but these are vital services that serve the public day and night. Do you have any suggesttions?
firstly, why is firefighting a cushy little number, as you call it? yes, firefighters do have 'downtime', but most of the time, when not on calls, firefighters are doing community fire safety (oh, sorry cr*p, as you call it) and training. i do agree that cuts need to be made, but my personal feeling is that a potential 31 station closures is far too high and far too dangerous. I am not qualified, and don't pretend to be, to say where the cuts should come from, but these are vital services that serve the public day and night. Do you have any suggesttions? chuck liddell
  • Score: 0

11:52am Fri 23 Nov 12

Gypo.Joe says...

"firefighters are doing community fire safety", why should we be paying you lot your salary for that when perhaps we could get a a trained team to do that for a lot less money. It really dont need firemen to tell OAPs etc to put up smoke alarms. Waste of resources if you ask me.

Cuts right across the board, that's whats needed, that includes you unfortunately.
"firefighters are doing community fire safety", why should we be paying you lot your salary for that when perhaps we could get a a trained team to do that for a lot less money. It really dont need firemen to tell OAPs etc to put up smoke alarms. Waste of resources if you ask me. Cuts right across the board, that's whats needed, that includes you unfortunately. Gypo.Joe
  • Score: 0

2:22pm Fri 23 Nov 12

Keyser So"ze says...

An interesting point about fire-fighters carrying out community fire safety and should the community fire safety role be carried out by a trained team.
I would hazard a guess that the training for the trained team would have to have a budget allocated to it and it's probably fair to assume that the trained team would also want paying, so another budget for that. Funding for these budgets would no doubt have to be provided by the Greater London Assembly who would have to make further cuts to the services that the tax payers of London pay for.
Therefore would it not make better economic sense for the fire service to continue performing community fire safety given that the fire service is already funded from the GLA and would not require additional funds.

Cuts across the board raise a philosophical question. To receive a service (health, education, police, fire binmen etc) it currently requires funding from the tax payer, therefore the public can have what ever level of service they want as long as they are prepared to pay for it from there taxes.

If the economy had not been stalled we would have more people in full time employment, which means more money being spent, creating more jobs in "the High Street" which would lead to more taxes being paid to the exchequer. So rather than scrimping for savings in levels of service delivered to the public, would it not make more sense to stimulate the economy to increase consumer spending whilst targeting economic inefficiencies in front line services?

The amount of public money that is wasted by unnecessary bureaucracy appears to be quite shocking, The health care provided in South London seems a prime example of this.
Rather than having a central NHS, South London has multiple locations funded as primary care trusts, each performing there own payroll, purchasing etc and creating many layers of bureaucracy.
If they had a single NHS for the region they would reduce bureaucracy, have a more unified NHS rather than individual trusts competing to provide services, whilst making further savings by having more "buying power" being able to negotiate better prices from suppliers
An interesting point about fire-fighters carrying out community fire safety and should the community fire safety role be carried out by a trained team. I would hazard a guess that the training for the trained team would have to have a budget allocated to it and it's probably fair to assume that the trained team would also want paying, so another budget for that. Funding for these budgets would no doubt have to be provided by the Greater London Assembly who would have to make further cuts to the services that the tax payers of London pay for. Therefore would it not make better economic sense for the fire service to continue performing community fire safety given that the fire service is already funded from the GLA and would not require additional funds. Cuts across the board raise a philosophical question. To receive a service (health, education, police, fire binmen etc) it currently requires funding from the tax payer, therefore the public can have what ever level of service they want as long as they are prepared to pay for it from there taxes. If the economy had not been stalled we would have more people in full time employment, which means more money being spent, creating more jobs in "the High Street" which would lead to more taxes being paid to the exchequer. So rather than scrimping for savings in levels of service delivered to the public, would it not make more sense to stimulate the economy to increase consumer spending whilst targeting economic inefficiencies in front line services? The amount of public money that is wasted by unnecessary bureaucracy appears to be quite shocking, The health care provided in South London seems a prime example of this. Rather than having a central NHS, South London has multiple locations funded as primary care trusts, each performing there own payroll, purchasing etc and creating many layers of bureaucracy. If they had a single NHS for the region they would reduce bureaucracy, have a more unified NHS rather than individual trusts competing to provide services, whilst making further savings by having more "buying power" being able to negotiate better prices from suppliers Keyser So"ze
  • Score: 0

2:34pm Fri 23 Nov 12

chuck liddell says...

......."cuts right across the board, that's what's needed".......

gypo joe, are you actually George Osbourne, Big Dave or Boris Johnson in disguise....?
......."cuts right across the board, that's what's needed"....... gypo joe, are you actually George Osbourne, Big Dave or Boris Johnson in disguise....? chuck liddell
  • Score: 0

5:14pm Fri 23 Nov 12

goldenbroomboy says...

Keyser So"ze wrote:
An interesting point about fire-fighters carrying out community fire safety and should the community fire safety role be carried out by a trained team. I would hazard a guess that the training for the trained team would have to have a budget allocated to it and it's probably fair to assume that the trained team would also want paying, so another budget for that. Funding for these budgets would no doubt have to be provided by the Greater London Assembly who would have to make further cuts to the services that the tax payers of London pay for. Therefore would it not make better economic sense for the fire service to continue performing community fire safety given that the fire service is already funded from the GLA and would not require additional funds. Cuts across the board raise a philosophical question. To receive a service (health, education, police, fire binmen etc) it currently requires funding from the tax payer, therefore the public can have what ever level of service they want as long as they are prepared to pay for it from there taxes. If the economy had not been stalled we would have more people in full time employment, which means more money being spent, creating more jobs in "the High Street" which would lead to more taxes being paid to the exchequer. So rather than scrimping for savings in levels of service delivered to the public, would it not make more sense to stimulate the economy to increase consumer spending whilst targeting economic inefficiencies in front line services? The amount of public money that is wasted by unnecessary bureaucracy appears to be quite shocking, The health care provided in South London seems a prime example of this. Rather than having a central NHS, South London has multiple locations funded as primary care trusts, each performing there own payroll, purchasing etc and creating many layers of bureaucracy. If they had a single NHS for the region they would reduce bureaucracy, have a more unified NHS rather than individual trusts competing to provide services, whilst making further savings by having more "buying power" being able to negotiate better prices from suppliers
That is typical of the Daily Wail idea that taxpayers do not want to pay for anything, and that anybody who works in administration is an "unnecessary bureacrat".

So we build one massive hospital somewhere in the Greater London Region, and bulldoze all the others & sell off the land? That's ok provided you don't actually need to go to hospital.
[quote][p][bold]Keyser So"ze[/bold] wrote: An interesting point about fire-fighters carrying out community fire safety and should the community fire safety role be carried out by a trained team. I would hazard a guess that the training for the trained team would have to have a budget allocated to it and it's probably fair to assume that the trained team would also want paying, so another budget for that. Funding for these budgets would no doubt have to be provided by the Greater London Assembly who would have to make further cuts to the services that the tax payers of London pay for. Therefore would it not make better economic sense for the fire service to continue performing community fire safety given that the fire service is already funded from the GLA and would not require additional funds. Cuts across the board raise a philosophical question. To receive a service (health, education, police, fire binmen etc) it currently requires funding from the tax payer, therefore the public can have what ever level of service they want as long as they are prepared to pay for it from there taxes. If the economy had not been stalled we would have more people in full time employment, which means more money being spent, creating more jobs in "the High Street" which would lead to more taxes being paid to the exchequer. So rather than scrimping for savings in levels of service delivered to the public, would it not make more sense to stimulate the economy to increase consumer spending whilst targeting economic inefficiencies in front line services? The amount of public money that is wasted by unnecessary bureaucracy appears to be quite shocking, The health care provided in South London seems a prime example of this. Rather than having a central NHS, South London has multiple locations funded as primary care trusts, each performing there own payroll, purchasing etc and creating many layers of bureaucracy. If they had a single NHS for the region they would reduce bureaucracy, have a more unified NHS rather than individual trusts competing to provide services, whilst making further savings by having more "buying power" being able to negotiate better prices from suppliers[/p][/quote]That is typical of the Daily Wail idea that taxpayers do not want to pay for anything, and that anybody who works in administration is an "unnecessary bureacrat". So we build one massive hospital somewhere in the Greater London Region, and bulldoze all the others & sell off the land? That's ok provided you don't actually need to go to hospital. goldenbroomboy
  • Score: 0

5:41pm Fri 23 Nov 12

Gypo.Joe says...

chuck liddell wrote:
......."cuts right across the board, that's what's needed".......

gypo joe, are you actually George Osbourne, Big Dave or Boris Johnson in disguise....?
You left out Jo Johnson and my hero Maggie T. I'm really a mix of all those people. A responsible conservative I'd call myself.

What about you Chuck.....Arthur Scargill with a touch of Fred Kite for good measure ?
[quote][p][bold]chuck liddell[/bold] wrote: ......."cuts right across the board, that's what's needed"....... gypo joe, are you actually George Osbourne, Big Dave or Boris Johnson in disguise....?[/p][/quote]You left out Jo Johnson and my hero Maggie T. I'm really a mix of all those people. A responsible conservative I'd call myself. What about you Chuck.....Arthur Scargill with a touch of Fred Kite for good measure ? Gypo.Joe
  • Score: 0

6:44pm Fri 23 Nov 12

Keyser So"ze says...

goldenbroomboy wrote:
Keyser So"ze wrote: An interesting point about fire-fighters carrying out community fire safety and should the community fire safety role be carried out by a trained team. I would hazard a guess that the training for the trained team would have to have a budget allocated to it and it's probably fair to assume that the trained team would also want paying, so another budget for that. Funding for these budgets would no doubt have to be provided by the Greater London Assembly who would have to make further cuts to the services that the tax payers of London pay for. Therefore would it not make better economic sense for the fire service to continue performing community fire safety given that the fire service is already funded from the GLA and would not require additional funds. Cuts across the board raise a philosophical question. To receive a service (health, education, police, fire binmen etc) it currently requires funding from the tax payer, therefore the public can have what ever level of service they want as long as they are prepared to pay for it from there taxes. If the economy had not been stalled we would have more people in full time employment, which means more money being spent, creating more jobs in "the High Street" which would lead to more taxes being paid to the exchequer. So rather than scrimping for savings in levels of service delivered to the public, would it not make more sense to stimulate the economy to increase consumer spending whilst targeting economic inefficiencies in front line services? The amount of public money that is wasted by unnecessary bureaucracy appears to be quite shocking, The health care provided in South London seems a prime example of this. Rather than having a central NHS, South London has multiple locations funded as primary care trusts, each performing there own payroll, purchasing etc and creating many layers of bureaucracy. If they had a single NHS for the region they would reduce bureaucracy, have a more unified NHS rather than individual trusts competing to provide services, whilst making further savings by having more "buying power" being able to negotiate better prices from suppliers
That is typical of the Daily Wail idea that taxpayers do not want to pay for anything, and that anybody who works in administration is an "unnecessary bureacrat". So we build one massive hospital somewhere in the Greater London Region, and bulldoze all the others & sell off the land? That's ok provided you don't actually need to go to hospital.
I doubt one super hospital would be very suitable, it'd need be massive and have a car-park the size of Bluewater to accomodate hospital visitors!
Better to have local hospitals (some where to have your heart restarted or your bones fixed in an emergency and somewhere for women to give birth, you know the sort of thing) that serve a local community (local communuity being the size of a town, not a borough) plus a more specialist district hospital for the non day to day stuff like brain surgery.
[quote][p][bold]goldenbroomboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Keyser So"ze[/bold] wrote: An interesting point about fire-fighters carrying out community fire safety and should the community fire safety role be carried out by a trained team. I would hazard a guess that the training for the trained team would have to have a budget allocated to it and it's probably fair to assume that the trained team would also want paying, so another budget for that. Funding for these budgets would no doubt have to be provided by the Greater London Assembly who would have to make further cuts to the services that the tax payers of London pay for. Therefore would it not make better economic sense for the fire service to continue performing community fire safety given that the fire service is already funded from the GLA and would not require additional funds. Cuts across the board raise a philosophical question. To receive a service (health, education, police, fire binmen etc) it currently requires funding from the tax payer, therefore the public can have what ever level of service they want as long as they are prepared to pay for it from there taxes. If the economy had not been stalled we would have more people in full time employment, which means more money being spent, creating more jobs in "the High Street" which would lead to more taxes being paid to the exchequer. So rather than scrimping for savings in levels of service delivered to the public, would it not make more sense to stimulate the economy to increase consumer spending whilst targeting economic inefficiencies in front line services? The amount of public money that is wasted by unnecessary bureaucracy appears to be quite shocking, The health care provided in South London seems a prime example of this. Rather than having a central NHS, South London has multiple locations funded as primary care trusts, each performing there own payroll, purchasing etc and creating many layers of bureaucracy. If they had a single NHS for the region they would reduce bureaucracy, have a more unified NHS rather than individual trusts competing to provide services, whilst making further savings by having more "buying power" being able to negotiate better prices from suppliers[/p][/quote]That is typical of the Daily Wail idea that taxpayers do not want to pay for anything, and that anybody who works in administration is an "unnecessary bureacrat". So we build one massive hospital somewhere in the Greater London Region, and bulldoze all the others & sell off the land? That's ok provided you don't actually need to go to hospital.[/p][/quote]I doubt one super hospital would be very suitable, it'd need be massive and have a car-park the size of Bluewater to accomodate hospital visitors! Better to have local hospitals (some where to have your heart restarted or your bones fixed in an emergency and somewhere for women to give birth, you know the sort of thing) that serve a local community (local communuity being the size of a town, not a borough) plus a more specialist district hospital for the non day to day stuff like brain surgery. Keyser So"ze
  • Score: 0

7:07pm Fri 23 Nov 12

Keyser So"ze says...

Keyser So"ze wrote:
goldenbroomboy wrote:
Keyser So"ze wrote: An interesting point about fire-fighters carrying out community fire safety and should the community fire safety role be carried out by a trained team. I would hazard a guess that the training for the trained team would have to have a budget allocated to it and it's probably fair to assume that the trained team would also want paying, so another budget for that. Funding for these budgets would no doubt have to be provided by the Greater London Assembly who would have to make further cuts to the services that the tax payers of London pay for. Therefore would it not make better economic sense for the fire service to continue performing community fire safety given that the fire service is already funded from the GLA and would not require additional funds. Cuts across the board raise a philosophical question. To receive a service (health, education, police, fire binmen etc) it currently requires funding from the tax payer, therefore the public can have what ever level of service they want as long as they are prepared to pay for it from there taxes. If the economy had not been stalled we would have more people in full time employment, which means more money being spent, creating more jobs in "the High Street" which would lead to more taxes being paid to the exchequer. So rather than scrimping for savings in levels of service delivered to the public, would it not make more sense to stimulate the economy to increase consumer spending whilst targeting economic inefficiencies in front line services? The amount of public money that is wasted by unnecessary bureaucracy appears to be quite shocking, The health care provided in South London seems a prime example of this. Rather than having a central NHS, South London has multiple locations funded as primary care trusts, each performing there own payroll, purchasing etc and creating many layers of bureaucracy. If they had a single NHS for the region they would reduce bureaucracy, have a more unified NHS rather than individual trusts competing to provide services, whilst making further savings by having more "buying power" being able to negotiate better prices from suppliers
That is typical of the Daily Wail idea that taxpayers do not want to pay for anything, and that anybody who works in administration is an "unnecessary bureacrat". So we build one massive hospital somewhere in the Greater London Region, and bulldoze all the others & sell off the land? That's ok provided you don't actually need to go to hospital.
I doubt one super hospital would be very suitable, it'd need be massive and have a car-park the size of Bluewater to accomodate hospital visitors! Better to have local hospitals (some where to have your heart restarted or your bones fixed in an emergency and somewhere for women to give birth, you know the sort of thing) that serve a local community (local communuity being the size of a town, not a borough) plus a more specialist district hospital for the non day to day stuff like brain surgery.
The key to this systems success being that it would work as a single organisation rather than multiple NHS Trusts. Multiple NHS Trusts must replicate many of their systems (H/R, purchasing etc) so it inevitable that whilst South London is divided in to many trusts such as South London Healthcare NHS Trust having a budget for Woolwich, Sidcup and Bromley the population of Lewisham (for example) are looked after by Lewisham Healthcare NHS Trust on a different budget. Both organisations require H/R, payroll, purchasing etc that could be more efficiently managed if they were funded from a single budget and treated as a single organisation. Whilst some local variations such as age of population etc may dictate the resources available for orthopaedic procedures etc in any given area, it does seem somewhat unfair that the 'postcode' lottery affects which treatments are available to individuals dependant upon where they live.
It must feel pretty rotten to see one of your own relatives dying a painful death because your local PCT wont fund an expensive treatment that a neighbour around the corner does get because they are catered for by a different PCT!
[quote][p][bold]Keyser So"ze[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]goldenbroomboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Keyser So"ze[/bold] wrote: An interesting point about fire-fighters carrying out community fire safety and should the community fire safety role be carried out by a trained team. I would hazard a guess that the training for the trained team would have to have a budget allocated to it and it's probably fair to assume that the trained team would also want paying, so another budget for that. Funding for these budgets would no doubt have to be provided by the Greater London Assembly who would have to make further cuts to the services that the tax payers of London pay for. Therefore would it not make better economic sense for the fire service to continue performing community fire safety given that the fire service is already funded from the GLA and would not require additional funds. Cuts across the board raise a philosophical question. To receive a service (health, education, police, fire binmen etc) it currently requires funding from the tax payer, therefore the public can have what ever level of service they want as long as they are prepared to pay for it from there taxes. If the economy had not been stalled we would have more people in full time employment, which means more money being spent, creating more jobs in "the High Street" which would lead to more taxes being paid to the exchequer. So rather than scrimping for savings in levels of service delivered to the public, would it not make more sense to stimulate the economy to increase consumer spending whilst targeting economic inefficiencies in front line services? The amount of public money that is wasted by unnecessary bureaucracy appears to be quite shocking, The health care provided in South London seems a prime example of this. Rather than having a central NHS, South London has multiple locations funded as primary care trusts, each performing there own payroll, purchasing etc and creating many layers of bureaucracy. If they had a single NHS for the region they would reduce bureaucracy, have a more unified NHS rather than individual trusts competing to provide services, whilst making further savings by having more "buying power" being able to negotiate better prices from suppliers[/p][/quote]That is typical of the Daily Wail idea that taxpayers do not want to pay for anything, and that anybody who works in administration is an "unnecessary bureacrat". So we build one massive hospital somewhere in the Greater London Region, and bulldoze all the others & sell off the land? That's ok provided you don't actually need to go to hospital.[/p][/quote]I doubt one super hospital would be very suitable, it'd need be massive and have a car-park the size of Bluewater to accomodate hospital visitors! Better to have local hospitals (some where to have your heart restarted or your bones fixed in an emergency and somewhere for women to give birth, you know the sort of thing) that serve a local community (local communuity being the size of a town, not a borough) plus a more specialist district hospital for the non day to day stuff like brain surgery.[/p][/quote]The key to this systems success being that it would work as a single organisation rather than multiple NHS Trusts. Multiple NHS Trusts must replicate many of their systems (H/R, purchasing etc) so it inevitable that whilst South London is divided in to many trusts such as South London Healthcare NHS Trust having a budget for Woolwich, Sidcup and Bromley the population of Lewisham (for example) are looked after by Lewisham Healthcare NHS Trust on a different budget. Both organisations require H/R, payroll, purchasing etc that could be more efficiently managed if they were funded from a single budget and treated as a single organisation. Whilst some local variations such as age of population etc may dictate the resources available for orthopaedic procedures etc in any given area, it does seem somewhat unfair that the 'postcode' lottery affects which treatments are available to individuals dependant upon where they live. It must feel pretty rotten to see one of your own relatives dying a painful death because your local PCT wont fund an expensive treatment that a neighbour around the corner does get because they are catered for by a different PCT! Keyser So"ze
  • Score: 0

10:07pm Fri 23 Nov 12

ron.1952 says...

A PPE from Birkbeck, I love it when some posters blow their own trumpet.

Get over yourself .....please.


Ronny.
A PPE from Birkbeck, I love it when some posters blow their own trumpet. Get over yourself .....please. Ronny. ron.1952
  • Score: 0

6:15pm Sat 24 Nov 12

zampa says...

Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:
zampa wrote:
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott, Why do you not use your backside for what it is meant for, instead of talking from it. Be it the day you need the Fire Service!
How rude!

It's a shame you couldn't use your very limited imagination to comment on the story instead of attacking my good self.

Then again, one must know one's limitations.
Yawn!
[quote][p][bold]Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]zampa[/bold] wrote: Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott, Why do you not use your backside for what it is meant for, instead of talking from it. Be it the day you need the Fire Service![/p][/quote]How rude! It's a shame you couldn't use your very limited imagination to comment on the story instead of attacking my good self. Then again, one must know one's limitations.[/p][/quote]Yawn! zampa
  • Score: 0

11:29am Sun 25 Nov 12

mikey_w_999 says...

Community fire safety has done wonders for the community and thats a fact. Education can and will only ever benefit people. In this case making them safer in the process.
It has made perfect sence to increase Firefighters work load whilst they are on duty at no extra cost. Rather than to pay someone else. Their work load has increased massively over recent years understandably so. They have proven they can, will and without question do their upmost to keep meeting targets and doing whatever is required. "What they are good at!"

I do not claim by any means to know it all but of course but i do live in the real world, have a fair knowledge, opinion and of course intrest to where my taxes are spent. Just as the rest of you and just as all are entitled to. Although personally i dont get the unproductive childish comments.

Work towards an understanding, build bridges not walls as such.

Something i do not understand is the unrelevent attack/tangents on diferent aspects of the Fire Brigade. Nobody is complaining within the organisation about the job its self. In question is cuts to actual stations and the publics safety?

I think we are all perfectly aware that cuts and savings have to be made in all areas. Nobody is denying that in the slightest. Including within the London Fire Brigade at every level from top management to firefighters.
Cuts have happened, will happen and continue to happen. Its where they happen that is important.

Surely you all realise that this does effect everyone? From yourself the reader, to everyones family, friends, managers, politicitans, firefighters themselves etc etc.
Surely everyone cares?
Or should care?
If you have no heart then there is no hope sadly
Community fire safety has done wonders for the community and thats a fact. Education can and will only ever benefit people. In this case making them safer in the process. It has made perfect sence to increase Firefighters work load whilst they are on duty at no extra cost. Rather than to pay someone else. Their work load has increased massively over recent years understandably so. They have proven they can, will and without question do their upmost to keep meeting targets and doing whatever is required. "What they are good at!" I do not claim by any means to know it all but of course but i do live in the real world, have a fair knowledge, opinion and of course intrest to where my taxes are spent. Just as the rest of you and just as all are entitled to. Although personally i dont get the unproductive childish comments. Work towards an understanding, build bridges not walls as such. Something i do not understand is the unrelevent attack/tangents on diferent aspects of the Fire Brigade. Nobody is complaining within the organisation about the job its self. In question is cuts to actual stations and the publics safety? I think we are all perfectly aware that cuts and savings have to be made in all areas. Nobody is denying that in the slightest. Including within the London Fire Brigade at every level from top management to firefighters. Cuts have happened, will happen and continue to happen. Its where they happen that is important. Surely you all realise that this does effect everyone? From yourself the reader, to everyones family, friends, managers, politicitans, firefighters themselves etc etc. Surely everyone cares? Or should care? If you have no heart then there is no hope sadly mikey_w_999
  • Score: 0

11:50am Sun 25 Nov 12

Gypo.Joe says...

"Including within the London Fire Brigade at every level from top management to firefighters."

At last some common sence. The voice of reason mikey_w_999.

Now where ?
"Including within the London Fire Brigade at every level from top management to firefighters." At last some common sence. The voice of reason mikey_w_999. Now where ? Gypo.Joe
  • Score: 0

1:31pm Mon 26 Nov 12

bustedflush says...

Lets close all public services.

We can all fend for ourselves and carry on paying our taxes for nothing.

That will make the world a better place will it not?
Lets close all public services. We can all fend for ourselves and carry on paying our taxes for nothing. That will make the world a better place will it not? bustedflush
  • Score: 0

1:32pm Mon 26 Nov 12

bustedflush says...

Lets close all public services.

We can all fend for ourselves and carry on paying our taxes for nothing.

That will make the world a better place will it not?
Lets close all public services. We can all fend for ourselves and carry on paying our taxes for nothing. That will make the world a better place will it not? bustedflush
  • Score: 0

10:36pm Mon 26 Nov 12

Teaspoon says...

Everybody knows that times are changing but the changes for the LFB affect you too. We WORK for you, members of the public in everything we do - be it fires (big and small), road traffic accidents, gas leaks, carbon monoxide, flooding, people under trains, water rescues, people in precarious positions, building collapses, terrorist attacks and many many more situations that some of you don't even realise that we deal with. Some of these incidents take hours of exhausting work from firefighters and specialist teams, many under life threatening situations - and all to save lives... YOUR LIVES.

Take a look at the LFB website under latest incidents. What about the 4 fatal fires that have happened in November so far? Nearly all of them are 'four pump fires' (that's four fire engines and 20 firefighters), and they have got the fire under control within the hour.

Please visit your local station and ask them about the things they do.... FOR YOU.

PS Don't listen to THEOBOLD PIGGOTT, every blog he makes is to wind people up, he's been on here for years. :)
Everybody knows that times are changing but the changes for the LFB affect you too. We WORK for you, members of the public in everything we do - be it fires (big and small), road traffic accidents, gas leaks, carbon monoxide, flooding, people under trains, water rescues, people in precarious positions, building collapses, terrorist attacks and many many more situations that some of you don't even realise that we deal with. Some of these incidents take hours of exhausting work from firefighters and specialist teams, many under life threatening situations - and all to save lives... YOUR LIVES. Take a look at the LFB website under latest incidents. What about the 4 fatal fires that have happened in November so far? Nearly all of them are 'four pump fires' (that's four fire engines and 20 firefighters), and they have got the fire under control within the hour. Please visit your local station and ask them about the things they do.... FOR YOU. PS Don't listen to THEOBOLD PIGGOTT, every blog he makes is to wind people up, he's been on here for years. :) Teaspoon
  • Score: 0

5:23pm Tue 27 Nov 12

Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott says...

Teaspoon wrote:
Everybody knows that times are changing but the changes for the LFB affect you too. We WORK for you, members of the public in everything we do - be it fires (big and small), road traffic accidents, gas leaks, carbon monoxide, flooding, people under trains, water rescues, people in precarious positions, building collapses, terrorist attacks and many many more situations that some of you don't even realise that we deal with. Some of these incidents take hours of exhausting work from firefighters and specialist teams, many under life threatening situations - and all to save lives... YOUR LIVES.

Take a look at the LFB website under latest incidents. What about the 4 fatal fires that have happened in November so far? Nearly all of them are 'four pump fires' (that's four fire engines and 20 firefighters), and they have got the fire under control within the hour.

Please visit your local station and ask them about the things they do.... FOR YOU.

PS Don't listen to THEOBOLD PIGGOTT, every blog he makes is to wind people up, he's been on here for years. :)
Teaspoon, you will think differently when you grow up to be a dessert spoon.
[quote][p][bold]Teaspoon[/bold] wrote: Everybody knows that times are changing but the changes for the LFB affect you too. We WORK for you, members of the public in everything we do - be it fires (big and small), road traffic accidents, gas leaks, carbon monoxide, flooding, people under trains, water rescues, people in precarious positions, building collapses, terrorist attacks and many many more situations that some of you don't even realise that we deal with. Some of these incidents take hours of exhausting work from firefighters and specialist teams, many under life threatening situations - and all to save lives... YOUR LIVES. Take a look at the LFB website under latest incidents. What about the 4 fatal fires that have happened in November so far? Nearly all of them are 'four pump fires' (that's four fire engines and 20 firefighters), and they have got the fire under control within the hour. Please visit your local station and ask them about the things they do.... FOR YOU. PS Don't listen to THEOBOLD PIGGOTT, every blog he makes is to wind people up, he's been on here for years. :)[/p][/quote]Teaspoon, you will think differently when you grow up to be a dessert spoon. Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott
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6:00pm Tue 27 Nov 12

Gypo.Joe says...

All this doom and gloom from firepersons how did we all survive when they did go on stike.
The bottom line is when you did strike you showed the game up for what it is.
A right old p0nce up.
All this doom and gloom from firepersons how did we all survive when they did go on stike. The bottom line is when you did strike you showed the game up for what it is. A right old p0nce up. Gypo.Joe
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10:21pm Thu 29 Nov 12

cib2282 says...

RIP BEXLEY BOROUGH

First we lost our Hopsital
Now we loose our fire service
Next Police?

Your recent story about increasing the number of children in North Heath Primary School, while removing our fire service made me laugh - what type of idiots are we allowing to run our country?

At 8.30am on a week day it takes a good 5-10minutes to drive out of our estate in North Heath via Bryon Drive. Can you honesly say, without a Bexley fire station, that it would only take 1 extra minute to get to my house in the event of a fire?

Traffic is choas in Bexley, parking is a joke, Darrent Valley hospital cannot cope and Woolwich/Bromley are too far away.... Not sure why I bother to live here any more!!
RIP BEXLEY BOROUGH First we lost our Hopsital Now we loose our fire service Next Police? Your recent story about increasing the number of children in North Heath Primary School, while removing our fire service made me laugh - what type of idiots are we allowing to run our country? At 8.30am on a week day it takes a good 5-10minutes to drive out of our estate in North Heath via Bryon Drive. Can you honesly say, without a Bexley fire station, that it would only take 1 extra minute to get to my house in the event of a fire? Traffic is choas in Bexley, parking is a joke, Darrent Valley hospital cannot cope and Woolwich/Bromley are too far away.... Not sure why I bother to live here any more!! cib2282
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11:10am Fri 30 Nov 12

Teaspoon says...

Ooh Erastus Piggott....that's the nicest thing you've ever said, to me or anyone else....

I think I'm starting to like you, you old smoothy :)
Ooh Erastus Piggott....that's the nicest thing you've ever said, to me or anyone else.... I think I'm starting to like you, you old smoothy :) Teaspoon
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