NURSES are spending too much time filling in paperwork instead of caring for patients, according to a survey.
The Royal College of Nursing, a nurses' union, released the results of the survey on April 28 at its annual congress.
It has now called for investment in administrative support for all nurses to free up more time for patient care.
The survey found that from the 1,700 nursing staff surveyed, 1,496 believed non-essential paperwork such as filing, photocopying and ordering supplies had increased over the past five years.
It also showed 476 nurses had no access to clerical support at all and 1,445 believed that help with paperwork would mean they could spend more time caring for patients.
And the college says those nurses working in the community and in outpatient departments are the hardest hit.
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College chief executive and general secretary Dr Peter Carter said: "Nurses are clearly feeling the burden of non-essential paperwork.
"The danger is that this is undermining their ability to care for patients and support relatives.
"Of course there will always be a certain amount of paperwork that needs to be done, but wherever possible, these non-essential tasks should be carried out by clerical staff.
"To do this we need to see an urgent increase in the number of ward clerks and other clerical support roles."
A spokesman for Queen Elizabeth Hospital said paperwork was necessary, particularly where care for patients had become more complex.
He said: "The course of a person's journey through a hospital has to be recorded and that requires doctors and nurses to keep a strict record."
Posted by: Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott, The Bar on 1:46pm Wed 30 Apr 08
They also spend too much time going out and getting drunk whilst still in their uniforms, turning up on the wards much the worse for wear the next day.
No wonder there is so much disease in NHS hospitals.
Do yourselves a favour and go private.
[bold]Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott[/bold]
They also spend too much time going out and getting drunk whilst still in their uniforms, turning up on the wards much the worse for wear the next day.
No wonder there is so much disease in NHS hospitals.
Posted by: Lily, Specsavers on 2:34pm Wed 30 Apr 08
Really? I have never seen a drunken nurse in uniform. I daresay a good many need a stiff drink after a shift dealing with the likes of you Lord Erastus! How does the saying go? DRUNK AS A LORD!
I fear every great institution in the UK is heading this way, why don't they employ more secretaries to do the paperwork instead? Please don't argue it is an issue with money, we are taxed to the hilt, surely we can afford it?
Really? I have never seen a drunken nurse in uniform. I daresay a good many need a stiff drink after a shift dealing with the likes of you Lord Erastus! How does the saying go? DRUNK AS A LORD!
I fear every great institution in the UK is heading this way, why don't they employ more secretaries to do the paperwork instead? Please don't argue it is an issue with money, we are taxed to the hilt, surely we can afford it?
Posted by: Pink Kitten, London on 4:01pm Wed 30 Apr 08
Sorry Lily but my experiences of NHS nurses when I have had to visit my relatives are very bad. They are rude ignorant and just not interested in the care aspect which nursing was once notorious for. Everytime I visit and see the attitude of the nurses I always leave thinking to myself I am so glad I do not have to stay in there with ignorant people like them. So please do not paint a nice rosy picture when the reality is very different.
Sorry Lily but my experiences of NHS nurses when I have had to visit my relatives are very bad. They are rude ignorant and just not interested in the care aspect which nursing was once notorious for. Everytime I visit and see the attitude of the nurses I always leave thinking to myself I am so glad I do not have to stay in there with ignorant people like them. So please do not paint a nice rosy picture when the reality is very different.
Posted by: Your Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott The All Knowing Guru, The Clinic on 4:02pm Wed 30 Apr 08
Nurses are no angels, in fact they are quite the opposite.
They are always moaning about how little they are paid but spend most of their time chatting in the nurses' station, eyeing up the male doctors.
Why should glorified bottom wipers be paid more? Nursing should be a vocation and pay should not come into it when deciding to pursue it as a career.
Nurses, please stop travelling to and from work in your uniforms; you are killing the patients with your germs.
[bold]Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott[/bold]
Nurses are no angels, in fact they are quite the opposite.
They are always moaning about how little they are paid but spend most of their time chatting in the nurses' station, eyeing up the male doctors.
Why should glorified bottom wipers be paid more? Nursing should be a vocation and pay should not come into it when deciding to pursue it as a career.
Nurses, please stop travelling to and from work in your uniforms; you are killing the patients with your germs.
Those are very harsh assumptions. Obviously you have suffered some negative experiences. Nurses like many people in all walks of lives come from various different backgrounds, upbringings etc. And as such you will meet with many different characters. Don't tar them all with the same brush, there are many good people out there too who do a tremendous job. Perhaps your own negative attitude is reciprocated?
Those are very harsh assumptions. Obviously you have suffered some negative experiences. Nurses like many people in all walks of lives come from various different backgrounds, upbringings etc. And as such you will meet with many different characters. Don't tar them all with the same brush, there are many good people out there too who do a tremendous job. Perhaps your own negative attitude is reciprocated?
Posted by: Graham, Bishopbriggs on 4:59pm Wed 30 Apr 08
Yes,too true,less paperwork for nurses.
Leave the cleaning to Domestics.
Feeding and toileting for Auxiliaries
What does that leave for the nurses to do?
Surely they dont all ''work'' in the emergency ward?
have a look at the pay banding under the 2004 pay agreement''agenda for change''
A Staff Nurse is started on band 5.
So when you take into account her/his partners wage plus overtime...That is a BIG Detatched!
[italic]Nurses,learn to value other people and dont always seek slow motion glory.[/italic]
Yes,too true,less paperwork for nurses.
Leave the cleaning to Domestics.
Feeding and toileting for Auxiliaries
What does that leave for the nurses to do?
Surely they dont all ''work'' in the emergency ward?
have a look at the pay banding under the 2004 pay agreement''agenda for change''
A Staff Nurse is started on band 5.
So when you take into account her/his partners wage plus overtime...That is a BIG Detatched!
Nurses,learn to value other people and dont always seek slow motion glory.
[quote][bold]Graham[/bold] wrote:
Yes,too true,less paperwork for nurses. Leave the cleaning to Domestics. Feeding and toileting for Auxiliaries What does that leave for the nurses to do? Surely they dont all \'\'work\'\' in the emergency ward? have a look at the pay banding under the 2004 pay agreement\'\'agenda for change\'\' A Staff Nurse is started on band 5. So when you take into account her/his partners wage plus overtime...That is a BIG Detatched! [italic]Nurses,learn to value other people and dont always seek slow motion glory.[/italic] [/quote] AFC did not come in in 2004! I know I am a nurse, have been over 20years. Do you actually know what a band 5 SN earns? Not all of them have partners and we do not get paid overtime!!
As for you "work" comment I take great exception. I and all my colleagues on my unit work very hard as NICU nurses.
It is plain to see that several people on this page know next to nothing about the job of a nurse. If my staff travel in their "scrubs" they would be disciplined and as for drinking in them......the mind boggles. As there is a national shortage of NICU nurses and you l0ot seem to know how to do the job why don't you try to get a nursing degree and then see what its really like
Graham wrote:
Yes,too true,less paperwork for nurses. Leave the cleaning to Domestics. Feeding and toileting for Auxiliaries What does that leave for the nurses to do? Surely they dont all \'\'work\'\' in the emergency ward? have a look at the pay banding under the 2004 pay agreement\'\'agenda for change\'\' A Staff Nurse is started on band 5. So when you take into account her/his partners wage plus overtime...That is a BIG Detatched! Nurses,learn to value other people and dont always seek slow motion glory.
AFC did not come in in 2004! I know I am a nurse, have been over 20years. Do you actually know what a band 5 SN earns? Not all of them have partners and we do not get paid overtime!!
As for you "work" comment I take great exception. I and all my colleagues on my unit work very hard as NICU nurses.
It is plain to see that several people on this page know next to nothing about the job of a nurse. If my staff travel in their "scrubs" they would be disciplined and as for drinking in them......the mind boggles. As there is a national shortage of NICU nurses and you l0ot seem to know how to do the job why don't you try to get a nursing degree and then see what its really like
There is to much paperwork, for all our key services.
This should be cut.I thought that was what the admin section was for.Also, the 'top' management, who do nothing more that have endless, pointless meetings,that achieve nothing.Too many chiefs, not enough indians.
There is to much paperwork, for all our key services.
This should be cut.I thought that was what the admin section was for.Also, the 'top' management, who do nothing more that have endless, pointless meetings,that achieve nothing.Too many chiefs, not enough indians.
Posted by: Pink Kitten, London on 10:43am Thu 1 May 08
Lynne I know many people who were never academically bright who sailed through their nursing degrees so I don't see why you think it is so impressive really!
Lynne I know many people who were never academically bright who sailed through their nursing degrees so I don't see why you think it is so impressive really!
[quote][bold]Pink Kitten[/bold] wrote:
Lynne I know many people who were never academically bright who sailed through their nursing degrees so I don't see why you think it is so impressive really! [/quote] My point exactly - it is not about being academically brilliant! It is to do with having the ability to apply theory to practice and to CARE for patients. A nursing degree is unlike many others as our students are not in college for 3yrs FT but are out in the "real world" learning in practice doing shifts 24/7 and having to write assignments and revise for exams both written and practical.
When you get home after a 12hour shift during which a premature baby has died and another has arrived and is really sick, the mum is in ITU as she nearly died during delivery the last thing you want to do is work on an assignment for university but if you don't then you fail the course and bang goes any chance of promotion within your speciality.
Nuring is a vocation not a job - you have missed the point.
Pink Kitten wrote:
Lynne I know many people who were never academically bright who sailed through their nursing degrees so I don't see why you think it is so impressive really!
My point exactly - it is not about being academically brilliant! It is to do with having the ability to apply theory to practice and to CARE for patients. A nursing degree is unlike many others as our students are not in college for 3yrs FT but are out in the "real world" learning in practice doing shifts 24/7 and having to write assignments and revise for exams both written and practical.
When you get home after a 12hour shift during which a premature baby has died and another has arrived and is really sick, the mum is in ITU as she nearly died during delivery the last thing you want to do is work on an assignment for university but if you don't then you fail the course and bang goes any chance of promotion within your speciality.
Nuring is a vocation not a job - you have missed the point.
Posted by: Graham, Bishopbriggs on 6:43pm Thu 1 May 08
Lynne,I cant comment when [italic]your[/italic] AFC came in,but the effective date was Oct 2004.
A band 5 SN earns the same as any band 5,£19683 to £25,424 and any perks that that position may bring.
I believe the job you do must bring you the opportunity for great job satisfaction and I would like to think that you and your friends take that opportunity and deliver value to the tax payer.
However I do not think that your honoured post is typical and I personally feel that a degree course is rarely justified,of course if the nurses wanted to study in their own time,at their own expense..I would have no objection .I dont believe that the gaining of a degree should automatically gain them a higher rate,as a degree is not required in the day to day aspects of most nursing jobs. You should consider yourself very lucky as you are being given a second chance.Ie gaining a new set of qualifications,if you look you will find that elsewhere in the NHS any other Pros courses would have to be self funded or severely limited financial assistance given,my advice …do it before it gets stopped.
I think the problem here seems to be that nurses seem to want a more elevated standing in society than they feel they have.But the public realise this and think they (the nurses)are no better/worse,they just carry out a function like anybody else.
To most nurses it is a job and they grab every penny.Proper nursing is gone.
However if you really want to stay a foot soldier,gaining a degree could deem you..wait for it….too posh to wash.
Lynne,I cant comment when your AFC came in,but the effective date was Oct 2004.
A band 5 SN earns the same as any band 5,£19683 to £25,424 and any perks that that position may bring.
I believe the job you do must bring you the opportunity for great job satisfaction and I would like to think that you and your friends take that opportunity and deliver value to the tax payer.
However I do not think that your honoured post is typical and I personally feel that a degree course is rarely justified,of course if the nurses wanted to study in their own time,at their own expense..I would have no objection .I dont believe that the gaining of a degree should automatically gain them a higher rate,as a degree is not required in the day to day aspects of most nursing jobs. You should consider yourself very lucky as you are being given a second chance.Ie gaining a new set of qualifications,if you look you will find that elsewhere in the NHS any other Pros courses would have to be self funded or severely limited financial assistance given,my advice …do it before it gets stopped.
I think the problem here seems to be that nurses seem to want a more elevated standing in society than they feel they have.But the public realise this and think they (the nurses)are no better/worse,they just carry out a function like anybody else.
To most nurses it is a job and they grab every penny.Proper nursing is gone.
However if you really want to stay a foot soldier,gaining a degree could deem you..wait for it….too posh to wash.
[quote][bold]Graham[/bold] wrote:
Lynne,I cant comment when [italic]your[/italic] AFC came in,but the effective date was Oct 2004. A band 5 SN earns the same as any band 5,£19683 to £25,424 and any perks that that position may bring. I believe the job you do must bring you the opportunity for great job satisfaction and I would like to think that you and your friends take that opportunity and deliver value to the tax payer. However I do not think that your honoured post is typical and I personally feel that a degree course is rarely justified,of course if the nurses wanted to study in their own time,at their own expense..I would have no objection .I dont believe that the gaining of a degree should automatically gain them a higher rate,as a degree is not required in the day to day aspects of most nursing jobs. You should consider yourself very lucky as you are being given a second chance.Ie gaining a new set of qualifications,if you look you will find that elsewhere in the NHS any other Pros courses would have to be self funded or severely limited financial assistance given,my advice …do it before it gets stopped. I think the problem here seems to be that nurses seem to want a more elevated standing in society than they feel they have.But the public realise this and think they (the nurses)are no better/worse,they just carry out a function like anybody else. To most nurses it is a job and they grab every penny.Proper nursing is gone. However if you really want to stay a foot soldier,gaining a degree could deem you..wait for it….too posh to wash. [/quote] What do you mean "being given a second chance"? How do you know who funded my courses? I know a lot of staff from many Trusts who self fund post reg courses. Of course Pre reg is a totally different thing. Your post actually makes very little sense to me. I did not advocate a degree profession - I trained under the "old" regime back in the 80's before nursing went into universities and if you read what I have said I did actually say nursing is not about being academic but about the skills needed to CARE for patients.
I am not a "foot soldier" as you put it (I am not a band 5 nurse, my role is in education and development of my unit staff. No nurse I know wants any kind of elevated standing, if they did they would go and do something else.
You seem to have missed my point totally.
Graham wrote:
Lynne,I cant comment when your AFC came in,but the effective date was Oct 2004. A band 5 SN earns the same as any band 5,£19683 to £25,424 and any perks that that position may bring. I believe the job you do must bring you the opportunity for great job satisfaction and I would like to think that you and your friends take that opportunity and deliver value to the tax payer. However I do not think that your honoured post is typical and I personally feel that a degree course is rarely justified,of course if the nurses wanted to study in their own time,at their own expense..I would have no objection .I dont believe that the gaining of a degree should automatically gain them a higher rate,as a degree is not required in the day to day aspects of most nursing jobs. You should consider yourself very lucky as you are being given a second chance.Ie gaining a new set of qualifications,if you look you will find that elsewhere in the NHS any other Pros courses would have to be self funded or severely limited financial assistance given,my advice …do it before it gets stopped. I think the problem here seems to be that nurses seem to want a more elevated standing in society than they feel they have.But the public realise this and think they (the nurses)are no better/worse,they just carry out a function like anybody else. To most nurses it is a job and they grab every penny.Proper nursing is gone. However if you really want to stay a foot soldier,gaining a degree could deem you..wait for it….too posh to wash.
What do you mean "being given a second chance"? How do you know who funded my courses? I know a lot of staff from many Trusts who self fund post reg courses. Of course Pre reg is a totally different thing. Your post actually makes very little sense to me. I did not advocate a degree profession - I trained under the "old" regime back in the 80's before nursing went into universities and if you read what I have said I did actually say nursing is not about being academic but about the skills needed to CARE for patients.
I am not a "foot soldier" as you put it (I am not a band 5 nurse, my role is in education and development of my unit staff. No nurse I know wants any kind of elevated standing, if they did they would go and do something else.
You seem to have missed my point totally.
Posted by: Graham, Bishopbriggs on 9:44pm Thu 1 May 08
Lynne,calm down,I never said you were a band 5,I merely answered your queries about the origins of afc and you seemed to think i couldnt find out a band 5 rate of pay.
Incase you hadnt noticed most colleges that have roofs are now unis.So it would come as no surprise or hold no glory if a mature student studied there.My post is designed with other readers in mind doll,poss thats why it didnt make any sense to you.
You seem to have missed my point totally. you have missed the point.My name is Chips....[italic]Mrs Chips[/italic]
Lynne,calm down,I never said you were a band 5,I merely answered your queries about the origins of afc and you seemed to think i couldnt find out a band 5 rate of pay.
Incase you hadnt noticed most colleges that have roofs are now unis.So it would come as no surprise or hold no glory if a mature student studied there.My post is designed with other readers in mind doll,poss thats why it didnt make any sense to you.
You seem to have missed my point totally. you have missed the point.My name is Chips....Mrs Chips
[quote][bold]Graham[/bold] wrote:
Lynne,calm down,I never said you were a band 5,I merely answered your queries about the origins of afc and you seemed to think i couldnt find out a band 5 rate of pay. Incase you hadnt noticed most colleges that have roofs are now unis.So it would come as no surprise or hold no glory if a mature student studied there.My post is designed with other readers in mind doll,poss thats why it didnt make any sense to you. You seem to have missed my point totally. you have missed the point.My name is Chips....[italic]Mrs Chips[/italic] [/quote] I did not query AFC, nor do I need to "calm down". Anyone can find out nurses pay rates they are clearly on the RCN website amongst other places
I am not "doll" either
What is the point about chips? I doubt anyone has understood your post.
As for colleges with rooves (as opposed to roofs) as I teach in one (that has always been a uni)for part of my role I know what one is!
Are you bitter about nurse's for some reason?
Graham wrote:
Lynne,calm down,I never said you were a band 5,I merely answered your queries about the origins of afc and you seemed to think i couldnt find out a band 5 rate of pay. Incase you hadnt noticed most colleges that have roofs are now unis.So it would come as no surprise or hold no glory if a mature student studied there.My post is designed with other readers in mind doll,poss thats why it didnt make any sense to you. You seem to have missed my point totally. you have missed the point.My name is Chips....Mrs Chips
I did not query AFC, nor do I need to "calm down". Anyone can find out nurses pay rates they are clearly on the RCN website amongst other places
I am not "doll" either
What is the point about chips? I doubt anyone has understood your post.
As for colleges with rooves (as opposed to roofs) as I teach in one (that has always been a uni)for part of my role I know what one is!
Are you bitter about nurse's for some reason?
Posted by: Graham, Bishopbriggs on 10:05am Sat 3 May 08
You quit clearly were surprised that AFC started in October 2004.
Nurses pay and any other health workers can be found more accurately in the AFC chart(which is where the Royal get their info.I would imagine most people have heard of Mr Chips,are you not well read?You must be a very difficult one to deal with,because im feeling the hate from you and thats just over the web.Let me guess,you wear long dangly earrings?and use the words robust and issues frequently.also look as if you have bitten into a lemon and have vinegar in your eyes.
I am not bitter about nurses,I just feel that they should realise they have better wages and conditions than most and should keep it low key before they get found out further,my wife is one.She has a better job than The Duke of Edinburgh.not bad for a person that only gained 4 O' grades at school.
You quit clearly were surprised that AFC started in October 2004.
Nurses pay and any other health workers can be found more accurately in the AFC chart(which is where the Royal get their info.I would imagine most people have heard of Mr Chips,are you not well read?You must be a very difficult one to deal with,because im feeling the hate from you and thats just over the web.Let me guess,you wear long dangly earrings?and use the words robust and issues frequently.also look as if you have bitten into a lemon and have vinegar in your eyes.
I am not bitter about nurses,I just feel that they should realise they have better wages and conditions than most and should keep it low key before they get found out further,my wife is one.She has a better job than The Duke of Edinburgh.not bad for a person that only gained 4 O' grades at school.
Posted by: monica mcclelland, scotland on 12:01pm Mon 16 Jun 08
I do not drink alcohol, i would never be never rude or swear, -but some patients have been abusive to me ( - I am a mental health nurse) I do not wear my uniform to work either, even though we do not have a proper changing room.
I do not drink alcohol, i would never be never rude or swear, -but some patients have been abusive to me ( - I am a mental health nurse) I do not wear my uniform to work either, even though we do not have a proper changing room.
Posted by: linda, southampton on 7:51pm Thu 21 Aug 08
I am dumbfounded by the attitude and arrogance of some of the people who have posted here. I trained many years ago as an SRN, the wages were rubbish, but I did it because I enjoy working with and helping people. Today, yes the wages have improved, but the pressures practicing nurses are under on a daily basis in the workplace are enormous. Nursing is an extremely demanding, at times emotionally draining, frequently exhausting career, and I call it a career because we are constantly expected at the same time to increase our knowledge and skills and keep up to date with the latest developments. It deserves to be well paid, but still, regardless of what we are paid unless you have compassion for people, a real sense of wanting to care and help those who are sick, weak or disadvantaged, then you would not be able to cope with nursing. And I find it extremely insulting and offensive to be regarded as a 'glorified bottom wiper'- is that what you would call your mother? Or to be told I'm thick- well at least I'm not ignorant like some of you are!
I am dumbfounded by the attitude and arrogance of some of the people who have posted here. I trained many years ago as an SRN, the wages were rubbish, but I did it because I enjoy working with and helping people. Today, yes the wages have improved, but the pressures practicing nurses are under on a daily basis in the workplace are enormous. Nursing is an extremely demanding, at times emotionally draining, frequently exhausting career, and I call it a career because we are constantly expected at the same time to increase our knowledge and skills and keep up to date with the latest developments. It deserves to be well paid, but still, regardless of what we are paid unless you have compassion for people, a real sense of wanting to care and help those who are sick, weak or disadvantaged, then you would not be able to cope with nursing. And I find it extremely insulting and offensive to be regarded as a 'glorified bottom wiper'- is that what you would call your mother? Or to be told I'm thick- well at least I'm not ignorant like some of you are!
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