Lewisham Hospital: Mums and buggies blockade Department of Health

News Shopper: Lewisham Hospital: Mums and buggies blockade Department of Health (pic by Simon Way) Lewisham Hospital: Mums and buggies blockade Department of Health (pic by Simon Way)

MORE than 60 mums and their children staged a protest at the Department of Health today against proposals to axe Lewisham Hospital's A&E and maternity services - as thousands prepare to march at the weekend.

Administrator Matthew Kershaw has proposed the closures to help solve the financial problems left by the meltdown of the South London Healthcare Trust. Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt is due to decide on the proposals next week.

Consultant obstetrician Ruth Cochrane said: "Lewisham currently has full maternity services and it is wonderful to see that so many local mothers have come out to support the trust. 

"Proposals to downgrade these services and to have a midwife-led birth centre – without the back-up provided by full obstetric services - are just not safe. 

"If women experience a complication during childbirth they would have to be transferred from Lewisham to King's Hospital or to Queen Elizabeth in Woolwich, both of which are simply too far."

Mum-of-three  Jessica Ormerod, chairwoman of Lewisham’s Maternity Services Liaison Committee said: "Lewisham Hospital is not part of South London Healthcare, but is being asked to lose vital services because of financial problems elsewhere. 

"Local GPs and healthcare professionals have said this is unsafe with dangerous consequences, but the government’s special administrator has refused to listen to their views.  Jeremy Hunt, Secretary of State for Health, is making his final decision by February 1, so it is important he sees how local people feel."

During a parliamentary debate on the issue this morning, Lewisham East MP Heidi Alexander branded the proposals unfair and unsafe.

She said: "Over 4,000 babies are born each year at Lewisham. There has been an 11% increase in the number of births at the hospital over the last 5 years and the birth rate is rising.  Unlike other health services, maternity care cannot be rationed or restricted.

"Nationally, we are witnessing the highest birth rate for 40 years – particularly high in places like Lewisham – and the Government wants to close a popular, much-needed maternity department.

"Maternity services in South London are under enormous pressures.

"In the 20 months between April 2011 and November 2012, providers of maternity services across South East London suspended services on 37 occasions. This means women in labour were turned away from hospitals and told they would have to go elsewhere.

"Of these 37 suspensions, 26 of them were necessary because of lack of beds. Kings College Hospital also tried to suspend services on a further six occasions but were unable to do so as no other unit had capacity to accept the women who they were trying to transfer. Just a few weeks ago, both Kings and Woolwich were sending women to Lewisham to give birth."

 

Thousands to protest this weekend

The protest comes ahead of a mass demonstration where thousands are expected to march through Lewisham on Saturday (Jan 26) in a final show of opposition.

Campaigners are urging as many people as possible to come out and eclipse even the 15,000 estimated to have marched late last year.

Jos Bell from the Save Lewisham Hospital campaign said: "This is the big chance for the people of Lewisham and elsewhere who will be directly affected, whose families will be affected, whose life chances will be affected by these dangerous proposals, to show their opposition."

Protestors will meet at Loampit Vale at 12pm on Saturday before heading down past the hospital and gathering in Mountsfield Park.

Vist savelewishamhospital.com for details.


Five reasons to march on Saturday

- Lewisham Hospital was not even part of the health trust which went bust, but is paying the price.

- The consultation last year made no mention of selling off around half the hospital land.

- Lewisham would be left with one midwife-led maternity unit, despite having a rising birth rate.

- Winter has already seen pressure put on A&Es across the area. What will happen if another one closes?

- Following all the administrator's recommendations, apart from the Lewisham changes, would leave a shortfall of only £1.7m.

Comments (22)

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5:08pm Tue 22 Jan 13

nearly right all the time says...

you voted Labour!

wasted all the money!

you had the olympics! (more money wasted)

you had the jubilee! (even more money wasted)

dont moan " `cos we are skint"
you voted Labour! wasted all the money! you had the olympics! (more money wasted) you had the jubilee! (even more money wasted) dont moan " `cos we are skint" nearly right all the time
  • Score: 0

6:31pm Tue 22 Jan 13

Simon bald says...

All those events especially the jubilee were fantastic for England,embrace them don't blame them for a hospital closure.
All those events especially the jubilee were fantastic for England,embrace them don't blame them for a hospital closure. Simon bald
  • Score: 0

7:51pm Tue 22 Jan 13

Peony says...

I hope these mums succeed, I really do. However I believe Mr. Hunt will toe the party line and agree to close maternity and A & E services in Lewisham. Mr. Hunt is in favour of selling off our NHS to his chums in big business.

He co-wrote a book in 2005 called 'Direct Democracy'. Quote 'Our ambition should be to break down the barriers between private and public provision, in effect denationlising the provision of health care in Britain'.

Seeing as he has accepted the poison chalice given to him by Cameron in the quise of Health Minister, he is not his own man but must do as he is told.
I hope these mums succeed, I really do. However I believe Mr. Hunt will toe the party line and agree to close maternity and A & E services in Lewisham. Mr. Hunt is in favour of selling off our NHS to his chums in big business. He co-wrote a book in 2005 called 'Direct Democracy'. Quote 'Our ambition should be to break down the barriers between private and public provision, in effect denationlising the provision of health care in Britain'. Seeing as he has accepted the poison chalice given to him by Cameron in the quise of Health Minister, he is not his own man but must do as he is told. Peony
  • Score: 0

2:29pm Wed 23 Jan 13

Margaret Smith says...

Well done you people, I will be proudly on the March on Saturday and will hunt out the people Before Profit banner to march behind.
We should all remember that much of this crises was caused by Labour in Goverment, it is the PFI contracts that have lead to our Area Health Trust going Bust. it is therefore a bit rich Labour seeking to win popular support to save a Hospital that there policy has caused the mess, i also note Labour have refused the call from People Before Profit to state publicly that if they win in 2015 or were in Goverment Today, they would not close the Hospital. I hope i am one of Thousands of Lewisham Residents that can see this and will vote for People Before Profit at the next Local elections, they Should also Win the Deptford Westminster seat, once our local MP takes her seat in the House of Lords.So much for years fighting Equality, once she became a Dame Deptford was a distant Memory the True Face of Labour, Say anything, Do anything, just get elected..
Well done you people, I will be proudly on the March on Saturday and will hunt out the people Before Profit banner to march behind. We should all remember that much of this crises was caused by Labour in Goverment, it is the PFI contracts that have lead to our Area Health Trust going Bust. it is therefore a bit rich Labour seeking to win popular support to save a Hospital that there policy has caused the mess, i also note Labour have refused the call from People Before Profit to state publicly that if they win in 2015 or were in Goverment Today, they would not close the Hospital. I hope i am one of Thousands of Lewisham Residents that can see this and will vote for People Before Profit at the next Local elections, they Should also Win the Deptford Westminster seat, once our local MP takes her seat in the House of Lords.So much for years fighting Equality, once she became a Dame Deptford was a distant Memory the True Face of Labour, Say anything, Do anything, just get elected.. Margaret Smith
  • Score: 0

2:31pm Wed 23 Jan 13

Margaret Smith says...

Keep up to date on the best blog in Lewisham;
Lewishamcampaignerbl
ogspot. Simply fantastic.
Keep up to date on the best blog in Lewisham; Lewishamcampaignerbl ogspot. Simply fantastic. Margaret Smith
  • Score: 0

3:11pm Wed 23 Jan 13

Inspirationalady28 says...

PBP have NO chance of winning the next election in the Deptford area..you know it, I know it!
PBP have NO chance of winning the next election in the Deptford area..you know it, I know it! Inspirationalady28
  • Score: 0

10:00pm Wed 23 Jan 13

nearly right all the time says...

how much did we spend on a war in iraq and afgahnistan?

Oh Mr Blair how do you sleep at night
how much did we spend on a war in iraq and afgahnistan? Oh Mr Blair how do you sleep at night nearly right all the time
  • Score: 0

11:31pm Wed 23 Jan 13

mainman says...

It is important people know about this. So why is the BEXLEY edition of the news shopper not mentioning this story. As with previous stories about Lewisham Hospital ,not mentioned in the Bexley edition.If they close Lewisham A & E ,(they have already closed sidcup) Woolwich will be overrun which will affect bexley
It is important people know about this. So why is the BEXLEY edition of the news shopper not mentioning this story. As with previous stories about Lewisham Hospital ,not mentioned in the Bexley edition.If they close Lewisham A & E ,(they have already closed sidcup) Woolwich will be overrun which will affect bexley mainman
  • Score: 0

9:47am Thu 24 Jan 13

Indigenous Pensioner says...

THe david cameron say we can have a vote on staying in the europe union but not until 2017 why cant we ha ve it now and can we have referendem on stopping all this immigration our hospital need to stay open if we h ave waves of immigra nts pouring in to my country then we need more hospital not less.Thank you.
THe david cameron say we can have a vote on staying in the europe union but not until 2017 why cant we ha ve it now and can we have referendem on stopping all this immigration our hospital need to stay open if we h ave waves of immigra nts pouring in to my country then we need more hospital not less.Thank you. Indigenous Pensioner
  • Score: 0

10:10am Thu 24 Jan 13

Good To Go says...

Indigenous Pensioner wrote:
THe david cameron say we can have a vote on staying in the europe union but not until 2017 why cant we ha ve it now and can we have referendem on stopping all this immigration our hospital need to stay open if we h ave waves of immigra nts pouring in to my country then we need more hospital not less.Thank you.
Totally agree!
Said in the Daily Mail today that many people coming to the UK & been allowed to settle here have no money or means of supporting themselves;
no homes; basically they are dependant of finicial assistance from the tax payers!
Dont get me wrong I don,t believe every thing read in the Daily Mail
but for chris sake where is the sense in shutting A&Es down mates?
& yep can we have a referendum on continued mass immigration in to Britain? we all know what the result of that woukld be so i suppose for that rreason they wont let us!
LOL
[quote][p][bold]Indigenous Pensioner[/bold] wrote: THe david cameron say we can have a vote on staying in the europe union but not until 2017 why cant we ha ve it now and can we have referendem on stopping all this immigration our hospital need to stay open if we h ave waves of immigra nts pouring in to my country then we need more hospital not less.Thank you.[/p][/quote]Totally agree! Said in the Daily Mail today that many people coming to the UK & been allowed to settle here have no money or means of supporting themselves; no homes; basically they are dependant of finicial assistance from the tax payers! Dont get me wrong I don,t believe every thing read in the Daily Mail but for chris sake where is the sense in shutting A&Es down mates? & yep can we have a referendum on continued mass immigration in to Britain? we all know what the result of that woukld be so i suppose for that rreason they wont let us! LOL Good To Go
  • Score: 0

10:13am Thu 24 Jan 13

Good To Go says...

Apologies for typos got a touch of arthritic fingers sticking in this cafe nero today!
LOL
Apologies for typos got a touch of arthritic fingers sticking in this cafe nero today! LOL Good To Go
  • Score: 0

10:42am Thu 24 Jan 13

Inspirationalady28 says...

 I read that in the coming 15 years we will have to build, just for new immigrants and their families, the equivalent of eight of the largest cities outside London... together with all their associated social infrastructure, of schools, roads, hospitals, railways, and all the rest.!! 
 I read that in the coming 15 years we will have to build, just for new immigrants and their families, the equivalent of eight of the largest cities outside London... together with all their associated social infrastructure, of schools, roads, hospitals, railways, and all the rest.!!  Inspirationalady28
  • Score: 0

11:50am Thu 24 Jan 13

Gypo.Joe says...

Have you thought about emigrating ?

chupa mi huevos.

Me Spanish is gettin better.
Have you thought about emigrating ? chupa mi huevos. Me Spanish is gettin better. Gypo.Joe
  • Score: 0

3:06pm Thu 24 Jan 13

Peony says...

It is amazing how a story about the NHS could lead to blogs about immigration.
If we sent all our immigrants back home tomorrow there would be nobody serving 'Good to Go' in Cafe Nero. Nobody looking after our elderly and disabled, and nobody picking our fruit and vegetables. They do all the jobs that the indigenous people will not do. Saying all this I will concede that our open door policy needs looking at and we should only let in people with a job to go to before they arrive.
It is amazing how a story about the NHS could lead to blogs about immigration. If we sent all our immigrants back home tomorrow there would be nobody serving 'Good to Go' in Cafe Nero. Nobody looking after our elderly and disabled, and nobody picking our fruit and vegetables. They do all the jobs that the indigenous people will not do. Saying all this I will concede that our open door policy needs looking at and we should only let in people with a job to go to before they arrive. Peony
  • Score: 0

3:55pm Thu 24 Jan 13

Eagles_Man says...

Back to the original topic ...

This is what happens when government tries to run healthcare - it should stick to health insurance; that what gets you universal free-at-point-of-del
ivery care.
Back to the original topic ... This is what happens when government tries to run healthcare - it should stick to health insurance; that what gets you universal free-at-point-of-del ivery care. Eagles_Man
  • Score: 0

5:01pm Thu 24 Jan 13

PaulErith says...

Peony wrote:
It is amazing how a story about the NHS could lead to blogs about immigration. If we sent all our immigrants back home tomorrow there would be nobody serving 'Good to Go' in Cafe Nero. Nobody looking after our elderly and disabled, and nobody picking our fruit and vegetables. They do all the jobs that the indigenous people will not do. Saying all this I will concede that our open door policy needs looking at and we should only let in people with a job to go to before they arrive.
I'm afraid that you have to accept that any story about closure or cutback of public services will lead to a mention of immigration and foreign policy. If we hadn't allowed the level of immigration that we have, then our services wouldn't be under pressure. I don't buy into the fact that nobody would do those jobs. I know quite a few people ou of work who are genuinely cannot find permanent reguler jobs even though they are perfectly willing to work in coffee shops or other low paid jobs.
Equally, if we stopped all foreign aid tomorrow, we would have billions more pounds that could be spent on hospitals and other vital services.
[quote][p][bold]Peony[/bold] wrote: It is amazing how a story about the NHS could lead to blogs about immigration. If we sent all our immigrants back home tomorrow there would be nobody serving 'Good to Go' in Cafe Nero. Nobody looking after our elderly and disabled, and nobody picking our fruit and vegetables. They do all the jobs that the indigenous people will not do. Saying all this I will concede that our open door policy needs looking at and we should only let in people with a job to go to before they arrive.[/p][/quote]I'm afraid that you have to accept that any story about closure or cutback of public services will lead to a mention of immigration and foreign policy. If we hadn't allowed the level of immigration that we have, then our services wouldn't be under pressure. I don't buy into the fact that nobody would do those jobs. I know quite a few people ou of work who are genuinely cannot find permanent reguler jobs even though they are perfectly willing to work in coffee shops or other low paid jobs. Equally, if we stopped all foreign aid tomorrow, we would have billions more pounds that could be spent on hospitals and other vital services. PaulErith
  • Score: 0

9:13pm Thu 24 Jan 13

Peony says...

I hear what you say Paul and I am sure you are right when you say that many British workers would do some of that work now that their own jobs have gone from the market place. Nevertheless you cannot make immigrants that have been willing to do the jobs no one wanted in the good times scapegoats for the mess we find ourselves in now. Any blame lies with our subsequent Governments and their policies.

As for overseas aid, I personally do not begrudge some of our wealth going to countries that do not have access to clean water. That is a basic need for every human being. However I am concerned about the problem of corruption when such vast amounts of money are involved. A lot of the money available to foreign countries is first creamed off by UK based companies that are being contracted out by the Government as 'consultants'. They are doing very nicely thankyou. Then the money thats left gets creamed off some more by the despots and military juntas that operate in some of these poor countries. We must not run away with the idea that most of the corruption is on the part of the poor countries because a lot of it starts here first. Nevertheless we are committed, like other western countries, to helping poorer countries and I believe with more transparency we could get it right.
I hear what you say Paul and I am sure you are right when you say that many British workers would do some of that work now that their own jobs have gone from the market place. Nevertheless you cannot make immigrants that have been willing to do the jobs no one wanted in the good times scapegoats for the mess we find ourselves in now. Any blame lies with our subsequent Governments and their policies. As for overseas aid, I personally do not begrudge some of our wealth going to countries that do not have access to clean water. That is a basic need for every human being. However I am concerned about the problem of corruption when such vast amounts of money are involved. A lot of the money available to foreign countries is first creamed off by UK based companies that are being contracted out by the Government as 'consultants'. They are doing very nicely thankyou. Then the money thats left gets creamed off some more by the despots and military juntas that operate in some of these poor countries. We must not run away with the idea that most of the corruption is on the part of the poor countries because a lot of it starts here first. Nevertheless we are committed, like other western countries, to helping poorer countries and I believe with more transparency we could get it right. Peony
  • Score: 0

9:49pm Thu 24 Jan 13

Inspirationalady28 says...

Peony, you are talking some sense here.. I hope our local MPs are reading this and learning something from what you've said.... :)
Peony, you are talking some sense here.. I hope our local MPs are reading this and learning something from what you've said.... :) Inspirationalady28
  • Score: 0

10:05am Fri 25 Jan 13

miss rumble tumble says...

PaulErith wrote:
Peony wrote: It is amazing how a story about the NHS could lead to blogs about immigration. If we sent all our immigrants back home tomorrow there would be nobody serving 'Good to Go' in Cafe Nero. Nobody looking after our elderly and disabled, and nobody picking our fruit and vegetables. They do all the jobs that the indigenous people will not do. Saying all this I will concede that our open door policy needs looking at and we should only let in people with a job to go to before they arrive.
I'm afraid that you have to accept that any story about closure or cutback of public services will lead to a mention of immigration and foreign policy. If we hadn't allowed the level of immigration that we have, then our services wouldn't be under pressure. I don't buy into the fact that nobody would do those jobs. I know quite a few people ou of work who are genuinely cannot find permanent reguler jobs even though they are perfectly willing to work in coffee shops or other low paid jobs. Equally, if we stopped all foreign aid tomorrow, we would have billions more pounds that could be spent on hospitals and other vital services.
nick clegg says he has not got a problem sending his son to a private school instead of a local secondary modern in london,
these people dont care about nhs service hospitals or state schools they have more faces than big ben !
just vote for who you like so long as its not ukip and the other 3 !
[quote][p][bold]PaulErith[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Peony[/bold] wrote: It is amazing how a story about the NHS could lead to blogs about immigration. If we sent all our immigrants back home tomorrow there would be nobody serving 'Good to Go' in Cafe Nero. Nobody looking after our elderly and disabled, and nobody picking our fruit and vegetables. They do all the jobs that the indigenous people will not do. Saying all this I will concede that our open door policy needs looking at and we should only let in people with a job to go to before they arrive.[/p][/quote]I'm afraid that you have to accept that any story about closure or cutback of public services will lead to a mention of immigration and foreign policy. If we hadn't allowed the level of immigration that we have, then our services wouldn't be under pressure. I don't buy into the fact that nobody would do those jobs. I know quite a few people ou of work who are genuinely cannot find permanent reguler jobs even though they are perfectly willing to work in coffee shops or other low paid jobs. Equally, if we stopped all foreign aid tomorrow, we would have billions more pounds that could be spent on hospitals and other vital services.[/p][/quote]nick clegg says he has not got a problem sending his son to a private school instead of a local secondary modern in london, these people dont care about nhs service hospitals or state schools they have more faces than big ben ! just vote for who you like so long as its not ukip and the other 3 ! miss rumble tumble
  • Score: 0

10:25am Fri 25 Jan 13

rescaaffering oldey says...

miss rumble tumble wrote:
PaulErith wrote:
Peony wrote: It is amazing how a story about the NHS could lead to blogs about immigration. If we sent all our immigrants back home tomorrow there would be nobody serving 'Good to Go' in Cafe Nero. Nobody looking after our elderly and disabled, and nobody picking our fruit and vegetables. They do all the jobs that the indigenous people will not do. Saying all this I will concede that our open door policy needs looking at and we should only let in people with a job to go to before they arrive.
I'm afraid that you have to accept that any story about closure or cutback of public services will lead to a mention of immigration and foreign policy. If we hadn't allowed the level of immigration that we have, then our services wouldn't be under pressure. I don't buy into the fact that nobody would do those jobs. I know quite a few people ou of work who are genuinely cannot find permanent reguler jobs even though they are perfectly willing to work in coffee shops or other low paid jobs. Equally, if we stopped all foreign aid tomorrow, we would have billions more pounds that could be spent on hospitals and other vital services.
nick clegg says he has not got a problem sending his son to a private school instead of a local secondary modern in london, these people dont care about nhs service hospitals or state schools they have more faces than big ben ! just vote for who you like so long as its not ukip and the other 3 !
...indeed 'miss cunney-hunney' cleggy has said, 'i won't stand in me missus way - if she wants private for the boi, then so be it' ...sorry cleggy... it stinks!! ...yer boi will be starting his 'big' school in september - and you want either the best state school in london like phoney tony did... or... we'll go private... but it's dahn to the missus!! oh my sides!! and as for voting - just vote for those that they keep telling you not too!! winds 'em right up!! rofl!!
[quote][p][bold]miss rumble tumble[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PaulErith[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Peony[/bold] wrote: It is amazing how a story about the NHS could lead to blogs about immigration. If we sent all our immigrants back home tomorrow there would be nobody serving 'Good to Go' in Cafe Nero. Nobody looking after our elderly and disabled, and nobody picking our fruit and vegetables. They do all the jobs that the indigenous people will not do. Saying all this I will concede that our open door policy needs looking at and we should only let in people with a job to go to before they arrive.[/p][/quote]I'm afraid that you have to accept that any story about closure or cutback of public services will lead to a mention of immigration and foreign policy. If we hadn't allowed the level of immigration that we have, then our services wouldn't be under pressure. I don't buy into the fact that nobody would do those jobs. I know quite a few people ou of work who are genuinely cannot find permanent reguler jobs even though they are perfectly willing to work in coffee shops or other low paid jobs. Equally, if we stopped all foreign aid tomorrow, we would have billions more pounds that could be spent on hospitals and other vital services.[/p][/quote]nick clegg says he has not got a problem sending his son to a private school instead of a local secondary modern in london, these people dont care about nhs service hospitals or state schools they have more faces than big ben ! just vote for who you like so long as its not ukip and the other 3 ![/p][/quote]...indeed 'miss cunney-hunney' cleggy has said, 'i won't stand in me missus way - if she wants private for the boi, then so be it' ...sorry cleggy... it stinks!! ...yer boi will be starting his 'big' school in september - and you want either the best state school in london like phoney tony did... or... we'll go private... but it's dahn to the missus!! oh my sides!! and as for voting - just vote for those that they keep telling you not too!! winds 'em right up!! rofl!! rescaaffering oldey
  • Score: 0

1:55pm Tue 29 Jan 13

PaulErith says...

miss rumble tumble wrote:
PaulErith wrote:
Peony wrote: It is amazing how a story about the NHS could lead to blogs about immigration. If we sent all our immigrants back home tomorrow there would be nobody serving 'Good to Go' in Cafe Nero. Nobody looking after our elderly and disabled, and nobody picking our fruit and vegetables. They do all the jobs that the indigenous people will not do. Saying all this I will concede that our open door policy needs looking at and we should only let in people with a job to go to before they arrive.
I'm afraid that you have to accept that any story about closure or cutback of public services will lead to a mention of immigration and foreign policy. If we hadn't allowed the level of immigration that we have, then our services wouldn't be under pressure. I don't buy into the fact that nobody would do those jobs. I know quite a few people ou of work who are genuinely cannot find permanent reguler jobs even though they are perfectly willing to work in coffee shops or other low paid jobs. Equally, if we stopped all foreign aid tomorrow, we would have billions more pounds that could be spent on hospitals and other vital services.
nick clegg says he has not got a problem sending his son to a private school instead of a local secondary modern in london, these people dont care about nhs service hospitals or state schools they have more faces than big ben ! just vote for who you like so long as its not ukip and the other 3 !
It's UKIP all the way for me. I'm not a racist but am now totally against immigration. I think it's gone too far. We don't have the infrastructure, money, jobs, etc to support all of the people that are here now, so borders need to shut immediately.
[quote][p][bold]miss rumble tumble[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PaulErith[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Peony[/bold] wrote: It is amazing how a story about the NHS could lead to blogs about immigration. If we sent all our immigrants back home tomorrow there would be nobody serving 'Good to Go' in Cafe Nero. Nobody looking after our elderly and disabled, and nobody picking our fruit and vegetables. They do all the jobs that the indigenous people will not do. Saying all this I will concede that our open door policy needs looking at and we should only let in people with a job to go to before they arrive.[/p][/quote]I'm afraid that you have to accept that any story about closure or cutback of public services will lead to a mention of immigration and foreign policy. If we hadn't allowed the level of immigration that we have, then our services wouldn't be under pressure. I don't buy into the fact that nobody would do those jobs. I know quite a few people ou of work who are genuinely cannot find permanent reguler jobs even though they are perfectly willing to work in coffee shops or other low paid jobs. Equally, if we stopped all foreign aid tomorrow, we would have billions more pounds that could be spent on hospitals and other vital services.[/p][/quote]nick clegg says he has not got a problem sending his son to a private school instead of a local secondary modern in london, these people dont care about nhs service hospitals or state schools they have more faces than big ben ! just vote for who you like so long as its not ukip and the other 3 ![/p][/quote]It's UKIP all the way for me. I'm not a racist but am now totally against immigration. I think it's gone too far. We don't have the infrastructure, money, jobs, etc to support all of the people that are here now, so borders need to shut immediately. PaulErith
  • Score: 0

1:59pm Tue 29 Jan 13

PaulErith says...

Peony wrote:
I hear what you say Paul and I am sure you are right when you say that many British workers would do some of that work now that their own jobs have gone from the market place. Nevertheless you cannot make immigrants that have been willing to do the jobs no one wanted in the good times scapegoats for the mess we find ourselves in now. Any blame lies with our subsequent Governments and their policies. As for overseas aid, I personally do not begrudge some of our wealth going to countries that do not have access to clean water. That is a basic need for every human being. However I am concerned about the problem of corruption when such vast amounts of money are involved. A lot of the money available to foreign countries is first creamed off by UK based companies that are being contracted out by the Government as 'consultants'. They are doing very nicely thankyou. Then the money thats left gets creamed off some more by the despots and military juntas that operate in some of these poor countries. We must not run away with the idea that most of the corruption is on the part of the poor countries because a lot of it starts here first. Nevertheless we are committed, like other western countries, to helping poorer countries and I believe with more transparency we could get it right.
I know what you're saying about third World countries, and I do have compassion for them. In an ideal World, we are able to allocate billions of pounds to these country. However, right now, we can't afford it. It's no different to one's personal choices about giving to charity. I'm sure that you give money to charity on occasions or maybe you're even someone who regularly donates each month. How do you decide how much to give? The answer is you work out what you can afford. You wouldn't give to charity if it meant you couldn't eat or pay your rent. It's exactly the same when it comes to this country. We haven't got the money to pay for our vital services such as NHS, etc and there's cutbacks all around. Therefore, we can't afford to give money to charity at this time.
[quote][p][bold]Peony[/bold] wrote: I hear what you say Paul and I am sure you are right when you say that many British workers would do some of that work now that their own jobs have gone from the market place. Nevertheless you cannot make immigrants that have been willing to do the jobs no one wanted in the good times scapegoats for the mess we find ourselves in now. Any blame lies with our subsequent Governments and their policies. As for overseas aid, I personally do not begrudge some of our wealth going to countries that do not have access to clean water. That is a basic need for every human being. However I am concerned about the problem of corruption when such vast amounts of money are involved. A lot of the money available to foreign countries is first creamed off by UK based companies that are being contracted out by the Government as 'consultants'. They are doing very nicely thankyou. Then the money thats left gets creamed off some more by the despots and military juntas that operate in some of these poor countries. We must not run away with the idea that most of the corruption is on the part of the poor countries because a lot of it starts here first. Nevertheless we are committed, like other western countries, to helping poorer countries and I believe with more transparency we could get it right.[/p][/quote]I know what you're saying about third World countries, and I do have compassion for them. In an ideal World, we are able to allocate billions of pounds to these country. However, right now, we can't afford it. It's no different to one's personal choices about giving to charity. I'm sure that you give money to charity on occasions or maybe you're even someone who regularly donates each month. How do you decide how much to give? The answer is you work out what you can afford. You wouldn't give to charity if it meant you couldn't eat or pay your rent. It's exactly the same when it comes to this country. We haven't got the money to pay for our vital services such as NHS, etc and there's cutbacks all around. Therefore, we can't afford to give money to charity at this time. PaulErith
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