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Touch-in made compulsory for youngsters

3:50pm Sunday 6th January 2008

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By Robert Fisk »

YOUNGSTERS will have to touch in' if they want to zip around on London's public transport, Mayor Ken Livingstone announced today (January 6).

His Zip Card scheme makes it compulsory for 11 to 18-year-olds to swipe their cards on the readers on buses and trams and to show their photocards on request.

It is hoped this initiative, which starts on June 1, will make it easier to crack down on anti-social behaviour.

Mayor Livingstone, said: "Free travel is a vital investment in London's future, making London accessible for thousands of families by improving young people's access to education, sport and leisure.

"Young people who want to benefit from free travel on buses and trams must make sure they have a Zip card, and they should also be aware that any youngster that abuses this privilege, for example by anti-social behaviour, will have their card taken away."

The new scheme means that young people aged 11 and over will need an Oyster photocard, which will entitle them to free bus and tram travel.

This can be applied for at Post Offices and more information is available on the Transport for London website.

  • What do you think of the free travel scheme? Add your comments below or have your say on the News Shopper forum.

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Mrs A, London says...
6:29pm Sun 6 Jan 08

I Hate Ken Livingstone and everything he stands for. He is making out that all his schemes are so wondeful, yet travelling on public transport is no better or safer despite all his congestion charging.
Travel may be free for teenagers, but to get an Oyster card you have to fill in a form that states your details (+ photo) are then available to the police. Doesn't that criminalise all young people?. I would rather pay my childrens fares than subject them to that.

Sam, says...
6:38pm Sun 6 Jan 08

Mrs A wrote:
I Hate Ken Livingstone and everything he stands for. He is making out that all his schemes are so wondeful, yet travelling on public transport is no better or safer despite all his congestion charging. Travel may be free for teenagers, but to get an Oyster card you have to fill in a form that states your details (+ photo) are then available to the police. Doesn't that criminalise all young people?. I would rather pay my childrens fares than subject them to that.
How does it criminalise someone who hasn't actually committed any crime on the network? You may as well say having a passport or a drivibg licence automatically criminalises someone.
If you behave properly there's no problem surely?

Mrs A, London says...
7:05pm Sun 6 Jan 08

What has your child travelling on a bus got to do with the police? That is what I have a problem with. They do not automatically give your passport or driving licence details to the police as far as I know. It implies that all young people are 'likely' to commit a crime so lets collect their photo's just in case. Sorry but I just feel uneasy with that.

Sam, says...
7:18pm Sun 6 Jan 08

As far as I'm aware driving licence and passport details are on databases that the police have free access to if they wish it, for a police matter. Same with phone records etc.

I'm not sure exactly how the data transfer on Oyster cards works between Tfl and the police - whether the police have all data or have to request specific items. But I don't think having access to the records crminalises people who haven't actually done anything wrong. Obviously if children do cause trouble on buses (and we know some do) then the Oyster card might be a way of tracing them or preventing them getting free travel in future. I don't have a problem with that.

Sam, says...
7:24pm Sun 6 Jan 08

Are you sure this data is automatically handed over to the police? From what I have read on sites such as the bbc or Mayor's own site it has to be requested on a case by case basis by the police, who have to give reasons for their need to see it. The number of requests are recorded and made public. My child is shortly to be getting an oyster card, so any info appreciated.

L, Thamesmead says...
11:28pm Sun 6 Jan 08

Sam wrote:
Are you sure this data is automatically handed over to the police? From what I have read on sites such as the bbc or Mayor's own site it has to be requested on a case by case basis by the police, who have to give reasons for their need to see it. The number of requests are recorded and made public. My child is shortly to be getting an oyster card, so any info appreciated.
I am sure that even if it is available to the police the only time they'd check it out is if a child causes trouble.
I would rather the police had access to the info and so were able to more quickly solve crime than not.

Sanity, London says...
2:22am Mon 7 Jan 08

LOL of course the Police have nothing better to be doing than pouring over millions of Oyster travellers details in order to criminalize your children... get real!

The Police have to request information from the relevant bodies. They can infact get pretty much any information about you should they REQUEST IT. If I were you I wouldn't live in a house as they can request your details from the Council or request your bank details etc etc etc... sadly they are far too busy trying to catch criminals than to bother with wasting time!

If your children have nothing to hide why should you be worried anyway?

Martin Barrett, Gravesend says...
7:48am Mon 7 Jan 08

I dont thnk data collection will be aproblem anyway..... they only loose it so its a moot point really :-)

miss k clark, london se9 says...
9:02am Mon 7 Jan 08

Hi, i think this is a gd idea, the only problem i have got is my daughter is 14 and since she had a osyter card she as lost it four times and each time she looose it we have to pay another £5 and i think this is stipid why should we keep on paying i don't i paid £3 and thats it why should we keep on doing this all this mean is it just goes into Ken Livingston pocket. Given free fares to our children should be we only pay one fix payment and that should be their insurance if lost.

Tanya, Plumstead says...
9:07am Mon 7 Jan 08

I dont think it is a problem if police do have the details, it would only be if the child had done something wrong or maybe was with someone who has. My biggest concern is that it costs £5 each time, and I dont know about everyone else but my son loses just about everything, so this free travel I fear wont be! As I am sure I will be replacing it every other month!

Mia, Shooters Hill says...
3:01pm Mon 7 Jan 08

has anyone been on a bus around here at school chucking out time??? - or witnessed the graffiti on the windows of buses?? - I think it's a good idea. And perhaps if you make your child pay the £5 everytime they lose their oyster card then they'd be a bit more careful - are we supposed to be making our teenagers more responsible and socially aware??

Michelle, Charlton says...
6:03pm Tue 8 Jan 08

Mia wrote:
has anyone been on a bus around here at school chucking out time??? - or witnessed the graffiti on the windows of buses?? - I think it's a good idea. And perhaps if you make your child pay the £5 everytime they lose their oyster card then they'd be a bit more careful - are we supposed to be making our teenagers more responsible and socially aware??
I agree with Mia. How are young people supposed to learn responsibility unless they learn consequences (even paying £5.00 for a lost Oyster card). If adults keep on making excuses for them not to be responsible then why are some people so suprised at the amounts of anti-social behaviour? Young people have free travel so it is not a big deal that they produce they Oyster card in return.

km, Erith says...
10:33pm Tue 8 Jan 08

Even though I receive free travel I still don't understand why it was made free. Ken livingstone should have just reduced adult fare to 60p and kept the child rate at 30 or 40p. No issues. People might respect the bus journey's more. Ken livingstone is stupid. He just wants every one to be monitored. He wants every one to use public transport, however travelling on a public bus with different people enclosed in a vehicle can sometimes be intimidating. You get all sorts on the bus. Riff raff etc.

Sam, says...
7:33pm Wed 9 Jan 08

Free travel for school children on the way to and from school is one thing - but why make it free in the evenings and at weekends?

I approve of the swipe card idea but I hope it has a photo otherwise won't people who have their card withdrawn be likely to simply nick someone's elses?

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