Extra restaurants plan for The Glades labelled 'outrageous' (From News Shopper)
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Extra restaurants plan for The Glades in Bromley labelled 'outrageous'
9:18am Friday 18th May 2012 in Bromley By Robert Fisk
The Glades has resubmitted its restaurant application
AN AMENDED plan to build a restaurant complex on the edge of land given to Bromley to celebrate Queen Victoria’s diamond jubilee has been slammed by campaigners.
Capital Shopping Centres saw its original planning application for five restaurants on the terrace at the back of The Glades shopping centre rejected by Bromley Council three months ago.
At the time the councillors on the development control committee were concerned it would be an over-intensive development of the area.
And they were concerned it would have a detrimental effect on the character of Queen’s Gardens.
The councillors said they would consider the idea of one or two café style places but instead the shopping centre owner’s plan still features five restaurants.
Among the alterations are the development being reduced in height by 40cm and the line of the building has been pulled back by 3m to create a terrace which overlooks Queen’s Gardens.
But Tony Banfield, the chairman of the Friends of Bromley Town Parks and Gardens and Bromley Civic Society, says they will be fighting the proposal.
He said: “They have hardly made any changes at all.
“It is still doing the same thing which is to destroy a significant part of the conservation area.
“It’s outrageous.
“The council are spending the Mayor of London’s money regenerating the Bromley North area and then we have this thing which will steal the trade and devastate this area.
“Yesterday the queen was walking through the Italian gardens part of Queen’s Gardens and then they will be selling it off.”
The Glades centre manager Howard Oldstein said: “We have made a number of important changes to our original proposals, improving the design, reducing the height and footprint of the building, and ensuring more space is created around the terrace for people to enjoy.
“Importantly, we have been able to make these improvements whilst keeping the space needed by high quality restaurant operators.
“This means we would be able to deliver the standard of restaurants Bromley needs, bringing families back into the town centre in the evening, whilst also addressing the feedback we have received from councillors and others.”
Comments(26)
fpercy
says...
11:56am Fri 18 May 12
buntysdad
says...
1:03pm Fri 18 May 12
Slonik
says...
2:07pm Fri 18 May 12
fpercy wrote:Education, education, education!.... lol
Queen Victoria?? Surely you mean ELIZABETH???!!
paulj
says...
2:22pm Fri 18 May 12
Biggin Hill Resident
says...
2:54pm Fri 18 May 12
goldenbroomboy
says...
4:01pm Fri 18 May 12
Slonik wrote:The article is correct. A plaque near the Kentish Way entrance informs the reader that "The White Hart Cricket Field" was renamed "The Queens Gardens" to celebrate the Diamond Jubilee of Queen Victoria.
fpercy wrote: Queen Victoria?? Surely you mean ELIZABETH???!!Education, education, education!.... lol
goldenbroomboy
says...
4:13pm Fri 18 May 12
paulj wrote:Spot on.There is also the Bromley South development, which includes yet more restaurants.
We must fight this all the way it's disgusting..! What has happened to our Green Borough..? The Queen's Gardens is a sanctuary in Bromley and belongs to the people and the wildlife. No to the 'Croydonising' of Bromley.
Over to you, Bromley Council.
mseven
says...
6:30pm Fri 18 May 12
As I commented last time they applied for this, the idea of out door eating sounds like a good idea but only for the approx one week of sunshine we have a year the other 51 weeks it will not be used as much as people don't want to go out in the rain or cold to eat.
Last time I mentioned how they could easily fit the restaurants inside the Glades and now about 10 shops have left since with the only new shop being an Apple Store coming later in the year. However in December on the Capital Shopping Centres website the Glades letting plans showed the shops between H&M and Clintons on the Upper Mall as 5 individual shops which may indicate a backup plan for the restaurants.
The Glades say that visitors want a space to eat together but making 5 individual restaurants doesn't solve this problem, bringing back a food court this is because when families and/or friends go out to eat they don't always want to eat the same things in individual restaurants you are not allowed to bring in food from another restaurant, with a food court the seating area is shared so people can get the food they want and eat together. Also on some days and times of the day people eat different things e.g. fish & chips is traditionally a dinner meal people eat on Friday, as an individual shop they would run out of seats on Friday evening, other shops will have some empty seats and a Fish & Chips restaurant will have more empty seats the other days, with shared seating the seats can be used by any of the customers
mouthalmighty
says...
9:51pm Fri 18 May 12
goldenbroomboy
says...
8:34am Sat 19 May 12
mouthalmighty wrote:"Croydonising" Bromley will make it more "interesting", in the sense of "May you live in interesting times".....
"croydonising " Bromley, Paulj sounds good to me. It will bring needed character to the town and maybe become more interesting to visit. Roll on progress.
Mangetout
says...
11:17am Sat 19 May 12
Slonik wrote:Has anyone from the Council been to Orpington to see the new Village Halls, built a couple of years ago near the War Memorial roundabout. Underneath the Hall at pavement level there are two large very empty restaurant sites that have never been used since construction.
Yes, just what Bromley needs - more restaurants!!
I hope we get more in Beckenham and Orpington too! There are just not enough restaurants around these days and who wants shops anyway?....
The Glades had a food court that closed years ago. Perhaps we are entering a competition to see who can have the most empty retail/food outlets.
mouthalmighty
says...
1:53pm Sat 19 May 12
commenting scoffer
says...
10:09am Mon 21 May 12
mseven
says...
7:23pm Mon 21 May 12
There has always been this thing about the "Croydonisation" of Bromley, even when the Glades was being planned people were against it because it will be the Croydonisation of Bromley. It should be refered to as modernisation. Croydon's town centre is bigger and so they can create a mini city. Croydon's aim is more for businesses for the mini city. However in the past Croydon approved planning permission on too many retail units, they have 2 large shopping centres as well as a small precinct and high street shops. In the Centrale shopping centre in Croydon some of the shops have never been open since it opened in 2004. In the Whitgift Centre some shops have been empty for longer. There are more retail units in Croydon than shops that would fill them and still they are planning to extend the Whitgift centre.
Looking at the letters that News Shopper got about a week before the Glades came in October 1991 (via the local archives in the Bromley Central Library) someone said it should be torn down because they felt Bromley will become the next Croydon but it hasn't.
Looking at the plans on the Bromley council website the development isn't actually in Queens Gardens it is in the part that was the back gardens of the houses that were on Holwood Road. you can see the planning permission application here:
http://searchapplica
tions.bromley.gov.uk
/onlineapplications/
applicationDetails.d
o?activeTab=summary&
keyVal=M33D4TBT0GG00
you can see the plans by going to the documents tab.
mseven
says...
8:43pm Mon 21 May 12
http://smg.photobuck
et.com/albums/v202/m
seven/The%20Glades/?
action=view¤t=
FC2.jpg
I worked in the Glades (although not for the Glades) last year and every day you would get one or two people who ask where the food court is, most people assume it is where the car park is as the steps on the escalator in the Central Atrium on the Upper Mall to Car Park 1 say that Mc Donalds is on the upper Mall and points up the escalator steps.
The area where Mc Donalds is is the least visited area in the shopping centre and it always has been, between the 5 years of the Glades opening and before Lillywhites arriving the 6 shops that were there one was 3 different shops in 4 years, 2 never opened, one was empty for 3 years, one was a Santa's grotto one year and the other was an opticians that closed after about a year and then a Christmas Shop 2 years running.
Even now there is a lack of interest in companies renting shops in that part of the centre, Lillywhites were trying to sell their lease for about 7 years and there were no takers and the previous toilets have been empty for about 5 years. Quiznos moved to the Lower Mall and was ment to be replaced with a coffee shop about 6 months ago but it is still not open.
If the Glades want to have a place for family and friends to eat they might as well put a food court in a part of the centre that is less populated to attract people to that area in a temperature controlled building with hardly any (if any) building constraints than building an extension outside that will be invaded my squriels and smell of fox urine
reptiles
says...
3:35pm Tue 22 May 12
mseven
says...
10:34am Wed 23 May 12
reptiles wrote:Free parking in the Glades has been done recently one evening but having a charge for parking is not only for the centre to get more money, if the parking in the Glades was free all the time the car park would be full and it would have an effect on the other car parks and pay and display roads near by. There are other car parks in Bromley town centre that are cheaper than the Glades and there are some roads that are free. In the Glades there is only free parking and charging for electric cars however plug in cars would probably not be able to go up the ramp to get in to the car park until the Prius plug in is released in a few months.
i remember yrs ago there was a food court in the glades, near boots - that was also back in the day when car parking charges were cheaper. Maybe if they want people to shop in Bromley they should do what the likes of Bluewater and lakeside do have FREE car parking and places like a food court to eat NOT fancy restaurants, families cant afford restaurant prices and not all people in restaurants want young kids running So maybe we should wait until I have a final total for reimbursement from you.g around. in a food court area its acceptable - therfore family friendly
People parking in Bluewater would probably only be shopping in the Bluewater Shopping Centre where as in Bromley there are other places such as the Churchill Theater or the Cinema which will take parking places from those wanting to shop in the Glades.
If the Glades were to have free parking they would probably decide to put shops in the car park and move more things from the Upper and Lower Mall to the car park as they have before with the toilets which were opposite McDonalds to Carpark 2.
When there was a Food Court in the Glades there wasn't much of a variety as the outlets were run by the Glades and called what they sold, there were no brand names at the start and when there was Pizza Hut was the only well known one, they were called:
- Burgers (later Burger Box)
- Potatoes (later Jackets)
- Sandwiches (later Café Select)
- Patisserie (later Upper Crust)
- Chinese but changed to Pizza & Pasta after 2 years (later Pizza Hut Express then Trattoria a year before closing)
- Traditional (later Traditional Favorites
Brian Sewer3
says...
1:09pm Wed 23 May 12
ron.1952
says...
2:12pm Wed 23 May 12
I prefer Old Compton Street myself anyway.
Ron
reptiles
says...
7:23pm Wed 23 May 12
ron.1952 wrote:erm people who are not rich and have young families! we cant all afford the likes of old compton street, plus lots of people cannot afford the train fayres to london or want to take their kids their due to to many tourists. Not all shopping centres do just pizza & burgers
Who in their right mind would go out to dine in a shopping centre, very common if you ask me. I may grab a quick mocha latte whilst out shopping, but eating in those type establishments in a no no for me thankyou.
I prefer Old Compton Street myself anyway.
Ron
@mseven is that not whatthe centre and bromley needs full cark parks which means people spend more money?? Bluewater has a cinema - not a theatre granted. Lets be fair who wants to shop in bromly and hve to fight the streets or other cark parks for a space when they intend on doing lots of shopping. in the centre car park people often go back and unload their bags and spend more money- same as they would in BW or lakeside. Plus at BW there is a lot more than just shops. I eould not want to go to bromley aand have to drive around the streets to try and park in a side road when i can go to BW and park nearer the shops - even at xmas when its busy you can always park for free somewhere.
"If the Glades were to have free parking they would probably decide to put shops in the car park and move more things from the Upper and Lower Mall to the car park as they have before with the toilets which were opposite McDonalds to Carpark 2." sorry i just didnt understand what you meant there about putting shops in the car park??? a) that would cost far to much to convert car park to a shopping mall plus there would be even less car parking facilities
mseven
says...
11:01pm Wed 23 May 12
reptiles wrote:About the carparks, I agree I didn't explain it as good as I could have.
ron.1952 wrote:erm people who are not rich and have young families! we cant all afford the likes of old compton street, plus lots of people cannot afford the train fayres to london or want to take their kids their due to to many tourists. Not all shopping centres do just pizza & burgers
Who in their right mind would go out to dine in a shopping centre, very common if you ask me. I may grab a quick mocha latte whilst out shopping, but eating in those type establishments in a no no for me thankyou.
I prefer Old Compton Street myself anyway.
Ron
@mseven is that not whatthe centre and bromley needs full cark parks which means people spend more money?? Bluewater has a cinema - not a theatre granted. Lets be fair who wants to shop in bromly and hve to fight the streets or other cark parks for a space when they intend on doing lots of shopping. in the centre car park people often go back and unload their bags and spend more money- same as they would in BW or lakeside. Plus at BW there is a lot more than just shops. I eould not want to go to bromley aand have to drive around the streets to try and park in a side road when i can go to BW and park nearer the shops - even at xmas when its busy you can always park for free somewhere.
"If the Glades were to have free parking they would probably decide to put shops in the car park and move more things from the Upper and Lower Mall to the car park as they have before with the toilets which were opposite McDonalds to Carpark 2." sorry i just didnt understand what you meant there about putting shops in the car park??? a) that would cost far to much to convert car park to a shopping mall plus there would be even less car parking facilities
What I was saying was if they were to give free parking it would probably have an effect on the other near by car parks that need to charge. If it was free to park at all times it it would make more sense for the Glades to put additional shops in the car park so they can get money from it. The car park is not just used for parking cars some of the other things there are is a shop mobility shop, car washing service and remote storage for the shops on car park 1, there is a barbers, toilets and the management centre on car park 2. The lifts at Waterstones were extended to the car parks and the customer service centre (now shop mobility shop) in the late 90s when the lift was moved and the Food Hall was changed to a book shop. Many of these places on the car park were parking spaces so it has been done before. The car park is only full around Christmas so by changing the use to retail they can charge rent and get more money as it is a continuous rent not just an hourly fee if some one is parking
mseven
says...
11:39pm Wed 23 May 12
http://smg.photobuck
et.com/albums/v202/m
seven/The%20Glades/?
action=view¤t=
GladesRestaurants.jp
g
This would involve replacing the shops between and including Select and Pineapple and putting non permanent seating outside that can be taken in each night which would be easier to get planning permission as the tables, chairs and barriers would be freestanding. As the restaurants would be in the current building with the entrances of the restaurants being in the Queens Gardens and with some another entrance in the Glades there wouldn't be any major change to the building, mainly replacing green doors with shop fronts. The shops in that area are currently on two floors (lower mall and service area basement) so the restaurants can take less room on ground level as the basement can be used for the restaurant's kitchen or office. On the back of the restaurants that don't also go in to the Glades there could be smaller shops (as pictured) that can be joined together to make bigger shops if required
mouthalmighty
says...
1:43am Thu 24 May 12
mseven
says...
3:15pm Thu 24 May 12
mouthalmighty wrote:I do get to the point quickly like on this message but I add additional information and examples to explain my point. I know a lot on the subject and I also explain it more for the people who might not know or understand as much about the Glades or how planning works.
Good grief mseven. Put a sock in it. Get to the point quicker.
There is a lot more I can go in to but it would become off topic, the messages are usually longer but I edit them down for example originally in one of the messages I was going to mention that it would probably create more than 85 jobs and how many people working in bars and restaurants are not legally allowed to work those hours and/or be in the UK but restaurants employ pay cash in hand and don't declare it as bars and restaurants cost a lot to run.
mseven
says...
12:56am Sun 17 Jun 12
Mangetout wrote:With the Orpington Village Halls there is currently a planning application to turn part of the restaurant in to a learning centre.
Slonik wrote:Has anyone from the Council been to Orpington to see the new Village Halls, built a couple of years ago near the War Memorial roundabout. Underneath the Hall at pavement level there are two large very empty restaurant sites that have never been used since construction.
Yes, just what Bromley needs - more restaurants!!
I hope we get more in Beckenham and Orpington too! There are just not enough restaurants around these days and who wants shops anyway?....
The Glades had a food court that closed years ago. Perhaps we are entering a competition to see who can have the most empty retail/food outlets.
Slonik says...
11:03am Fri 18 May 12
I hope we get more in Beckenham and Orpington too! There are just not enough restaurants around these days and who wants shops anyway?....