Editor's Eye comment: What's the point of everyone going to university?

12:38pm Friday 23rd November 2012 in Bexley By Andrew Parkes, News Shopper editor

A university education is a wonderful thing and should be valued, but it’s not the right choice for everyone A university education is a wonderful thing and should be valued, but it’s not the right choice for everyone

WHY are we suddenly so obsessed with the idea all our young people must be sent away to university?

In recent years the number of under graduates has rocketed, and at the same time, a plethora of average teaching establishments have strived to obtain university status.

But what’s the point? Surely the glut of extra places mean any snob value previously attached to universities has been lost, so it can’t be that.

It seems to me we’re pushing people into academic courses just for the sake of it. The last time my tyre was changed it was done by someone with an MA in sports science. And my local barmaid finished her English degree last year.

Not that there’s anything wrong with these people improving themselves and gaining an education per se. But, we seem convinced getting more people through uni means everyone is better educated and society better off as a result and this just isn’t true.

For some people university isn’t the right choice, even if they have got good A Levels, and we need to allow them to be comfortable with choosing another route.

Scores of graduates struggle to find jobs each year and many come to realise they’d have been better off simply joining the world of work three or four years earlier.

Everyone should be encouraged to better themselves and education is never a bad thing, but university is only one of the options out there.

Here’s an idea. Why doesn’t one university undertake research into exactly how many graduates will be required in each sphere of the workplace? Then we can encourage university applications accordingly and no-one would be wasting their time.

What do you think? Is university too easy to get into these days? Does it do us any good to have so many university graduates? Should university be reserved for only the most academically gifted students? Add your comments below.

Comments(52)

Alconcalcia says...
2:26pm Fri 23 Nov 12

I'd say it wasn;t suddenly. More a case if it's been going on for years. And, it;s not just a case of not enough jobs to go round in certain industries and severe shortages in others. the cost element is also shocking. My niece wanted to train to be a vet but, after looking into the options, not only was it a case of only possibly being able to get on a course, she worked out that the whole exercise, with accommodation and living costs over the 4-5 years would cost in excess of £100,000. That we can allow our children to start out on a career, should they be able to find a job upon leaving uni, with a huge debt round their neck, regardless of whether it only has to be paid pack when you start earning at a certain level, is a disgrace. My advice to any youngster leaving school would be to very carefully consider your options and not be forced into going the uni route just to keep the school near the top of the league tables of achievement. 3 or 4 years practical on the job training and no debt, has to be, unless you want to go into one of the professions that demand a degree, preferably to leaving uni with the same certificate as countless thousands of other people all vying for the same few limited jobs.

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Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott says...
2:53pm Fri 23 Nov 12

It also depends on the degree undertaken as to whether university is a worthwhile way to spend both time and money.

Degrees in media, travel & tourism and surfing are a complete waste of time. Not only are they a waste of time, they are a complete waste of money. Typically, the less bright go for these degrees, whereas intelligent youngsters take core degrees in maths, sciences and languages. To be blunt, these are the only degrees that really matter to employers.

Having a degree which leaves you with a complete knowledge of The Beatles won't get you a job. A maths or science degree will put you in the running for a good professional career with prospects.

Knowing what Ringo Starr has breakfast might put you in good stead in pub quizzes but it won't set you on the road to owning a Ferrari.

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Outandabout says...
4:29pm Fri 23 Nov 12

A study by Santander into employment practices of some of the major employers and reported in the Times about 8 months ago said that 80% of employers would prefer 3 years experience than a degree holder with none. 60% would not treat a degree holder any differently on interview than someone with a degree. So, someone with a job already has to consider do they want their twenty grand a year for the next three years or fifty grand plus debt. Too many universities are pushing vocational courses. People no longer learn just to broaden their knowledge anymore. Subjects the classics or American history, will broaden your mind but are not likely to lead to a job because of it but so what, there is nothing wrong with just learning. The tuition fees put paid to that. Now its law and medicine and other vocational studies. Anyone coming out of uni with a law degree will then go to law school, pass their exams and won't get placed with a solicitor for maybe 3 years, if they are lucky.

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Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott says...
4:56pm Fri 23 Nov 12

This old blog of mine more or less sums up this story:

http://www.newsshopp
er.co.uk/lifestyle/l
ifestyle/2008/05/24/
Your+Blogs+Blog+%28I
mported+from+blog+mo
dule%29/3737686.ACCE
PT_THE_FACT_THAT_YOU
R_CHILD_IS_NOT_ANOTH
ER_EINSTEIN/

Read it and learn.

Report this post »

Outandabout says...
5:11pm Fri 23 Nov 12

Someone wake me when David Icke has left the building.

Report this post »

Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott says...
5:15pm Fri 23 Nov 12

Outandabout wrote:
Someone wake me when David Icke has left the building.
But I bet you read it. Didn't you?

Report this post »

Gypo.Joe says...
5:19pm Fri 23 Nov 12

"A study by Santander"


ROFLMAO

Are you sure, stick knitting laddy.

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Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott says...
1:54pm Sat 24 Nov 12

Here's another highly relevant old blog of mine:

http://www.newsshopp
er.co.uk/lifestyle/l
ifestyle/2008/08/22/
Your+Blogs+Blog+%28I
mported+from+blog+mo
dule%29/3738541.A_ST
AR_IS_BORN/

Report this post »

mouthalmighty says...
2:04pm Sat 24 Nov 12

With 40yrs work experience working my way up, I have met a lot of people. It was the same story everywhere. I have worked with peopke from all walks of life.An degree does not give you commonsense, integrity, enthusiasm, diligence, nor a life time of experience. Quite often, youngsters just out of university are arrogant with expectations of getting a job, and if they do manage to get a job they expect to climb the ladder more quick

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Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott says...
2:14pm Sat 24 Nov 12

mouthalmighty wrote:
With 40yrs work experience working my way up, I have met a lot of people. It was the same story everywhere. I have worked with peopke from all walks of life.An degree does not give you commonsense, integrity, enthusiasm, diligence, nor a life time of experience. Quite often, youngsters just out of university are arrogant with expectations of getting a job, and if they do manage to get a job they expect to climb the ladder more quick
You obviously don't possess a degree in English, that's for sure.

What was it you worked your way up on - a footstool?

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rarecockneyguvnor says...
2:28pm Sat 24 Nov 12

As a last resort you could always get a job as a fireman. A bit of cleaning, polishing, squirting a hose now and again, scratching your nads in bed.
Beats working fer a living.

Now degrees, the only ones worth a rub are in Freemasonry.

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mouthalmighty says...
4:01pm Sat 24 Nov 12

Oh there are so many comedians on here. As I said in a previous comment re 'fox attack' bad habits can stick if you do it often, edpecially when writing in English language. I also said 'been there, done that'. Chew on that brain deads.

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Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott says...
4:11pm Sat 24 Nov 12

mouthalmighty wrote:
Oh there are so many comedians on here. As I said in a previous comment re 'fox attack' bad habits can stick if you do it often, edpecially when writing in English language. I also said 'been there, done that'. Chew on that brain deads.
Your cover has been blown. How old are you really?

Create a new username and start again.

Better luck next time.

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Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott says...
4:14pm Sat 24 Nov 12

mouthalmighty wrote:
Oh there are so many comedians on here. As I said in a previous comment re 'fox attack' bad habits can stick if you do it often, edpecially when writing in English language. I also said 'been there, done that'. Chew on that brain deads.
Your cover has been blown. How old are you really?

Create a new username and start again.

Better luck next time.

Report this post »

Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott says...
4:15pm Sat 24 Nov 12

You see, I must have been right. My comment is so good that it's appeared twice.

Report this post »

Outandabout says...
4:40pm Sat 24 Nov 12

I'd prefer research of 100 of the biggest companies in the UK than some idiots blog. It would be funny if it wasn't meant as a serious comment. Yet again another hyjacked thread by the monocells. At least together the IQ is nearly in double figures

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Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott says...
4:43pm Sat 24 Nov 12

Outandabout wrote:
I'd prefer research of 100 of the biggest companies in the UK than some idiots blog. It would be funny if it wasn't meant as a serious comment. Yet again another hyjacked thread by the monocells. At least together the IQ is nearly in double figures
Oh dear. You're out and boring again.

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Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott says...
4:47pm Sat 24 Nov 12

I wonder how long it will be before you resort to swearing.

Naturally, I will immediately report you and have your comment removed, so please refrain from using bad language.

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Outandabout says...
4:48pm Sat 24 Nov 12

Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:
Outandabout wrote: Someone wake me when David Icke has left the building.
But I bet you read it. Didn't you?
Don't be so ridiculous, you really think anything you ever said on here at any time ever resonates with me as sensible commentary? Think again.

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Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott says...
4:50pm Sat 24 Nov 12

Outandabout wrote:
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:
Outandabout wrote: Someone wake me when David Icke has left the building.
But I bet you read it. Didn't you?
Don't be so ridiculous, you really think anything you ever said on here at any time ever resonates with me as sensible commentary? Think again.
So you DID read it, didn't you?

I hope you learnt something.

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Gypo.Joe says...
4:54pm Sat 24 Nov 12

Outandabout you are more easy to wind up than the BNP turds that post on here.

I'm going to buy you some WD40 for your clockwork mechanism.


Come along do your little dance for us all.

Report this post »

Outandabout says...
5:06pm Sat 24 Nov 12

Gypo.Joe wrote:
"A study by Santander" ROFLMAO Are you sure, stick knitting laddy.
A similiar study in 2011 produced this: The newer study in 2012 was in the Telegraph not the times. http://www.aboutsant
ander.co.uk/csr/csr-
news/uk-plc-universi
ty-degrees-not-neces
sarily-critical-to-s
uccess.aspx

Report this post »

Outandabout says...
5:08pm Sat 24 Nov 12

Gypo.Joe wrote:
Outandabout you are more easy to wind up than the BNP turds that post on here. I'm going to buy you some WD40 for your clockwork mechanism. Come along do your little dance for us all.
and upset you with swearing, what a pair of wimps runnign to teacher because someone swore. Get Theo and form your daisy chain in the park, lube up fat boy

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Gypo.Joe says...
5:15pm Sat 24 Nov 12

Sounds like you know all about daisy chains Outandabout. You're a homophobe too, how sad for you.

Never minds lets dance, hows the The Military Two Step for you, it's not too quick now is it Mr Boring.

You do need a little oil you're clockworks squeaking.

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Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott says...
5:15pm Sat 24 Nov 12

Outandabout wrote:
Gypo.Joe wrote:
"A study by Santander" ROFLMAO Are you sure, stick knitting laddy.
A similiar study in 2011 produced this: The newer study in 2012 was in the Telegraph not the times. http://www.aboutsant

ander.co.uk/csr/csr-

news/uk-plc-universi

ty-degrees-not-neces

sarily-critical-to-s

uccess.aspx
No. I don't think I'll bother.

Thanks for the thought though. It must have been very hard for you and I appreciate your making such an effort.

As my dear old mum used to tell me, 'It's the thought that counts'.

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mouthalmighty says...
9:54pm Sat 24 Nov 12

I am very young at heart and do pick up on new terminology. And guess what, good looking too.

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Outandabout says...
3:30pm Sun 25 Nov 12

Gypo.Joe wrote:
Outandabout you are more easy to wind up than the BNP turds that post on here. I'm going to buy you some WD40 for your clockwork mechanism. Come along do your little dance for us all.
I get it now, you and Theo. I understand perfecfly. You come here just to wind people up because it gets a response, YOU get a response. Its all about contact, being noticed, being someone. It explains why someone would go to such lengths in creating a blog and then referrring others to it. Creating importance where none was there before. It was amiss of me not to have realised all this earlier, that really you are both just very needy, in need of recognition and status because it is absent in your real every day lives. Every time I attack I am feeding your need, every time someone makes a comment at you they are doing the same. It is time the need was met off line by some professional and everyone should do the same and pass you both by. We shouldn't mock either.

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Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott says...
3:35pm Sun 25 Nov 12

As usual, I don't know what you're talking about.

And neither do you.

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Gypo.Joe says...
5:32pm Sun 25 Nov 12

Outandabout wrote:
Gypo.Joe wrote:
Outandabout you are more easy to wind up than the BNP turds that post on here. I'm going to buy you some WD40 for your clockwork mechanism. Come along do your little dance for us all.
I get it now, you and Theo. I understand perfecfly. You come here just to wind people up because it gets a response, YOU get a response. Its all about contact, being noticed, being someone. It explains why someone would go to such lengths in creating a blog and then referrring others to it. Creating importance where none was there before. It was amiss of me not to have realised all this earlier, that really you are both just very needy, in need of recognition and status because it is absent in your real every day lives. Every time I attack I am feeding your need, every time someone makes a comment at you they are doing the same. It is time the need was met off line by some professional and everyone should do the same and pass you both by. We shouldn't mock either.
I love the fact how inept you really are, you just have to reply. Its all about your own p1ss and importance for you isn't it Outandabout. I'm better than you, the bigger man etc etc etc. Do yourself and everyone else around you a huge favour...get over yaself boy.

"Inept..not suitable to the time, place, or occasion : inappropriate often to an absurd degree" = Outandabout.

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hereallweek says...
6:03pm Sun 25 Nov 12

Why doesn't this site have a moderator to remove all comments from people that have nothing to do with the topic. It puts me off. I'm sure others feel the same.

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hereallweek says...
6:08pm Sun 25 Nov 12

I'm guilty now of doing what I want stopped but as this is the 'editors eye' it should be read by the editor. Is there a reason why we cannot comment on the coca- cola truck item? Sure this is an advert or it is sponsorship for this paper by the drinks firm packaged up as a 'story'. It isnt a story and should say as much.

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Gypo.Joe says...
6:29pm Sun 25 Nov 12

hereallweek wrote:
Why doesn't this site have a moderator to remove all comments from people that have nothing to do with the topic. It puts me off. I'm sure others feel the same.
Thank goodness it never put you off enough to not leave a comment.

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Marty1979 says...
7:42pm Sun 25 Nov 12

Outandabout wrote:
Gypo.Joe wrote:
"A study by Santander" ROFLMAO Are you sure, stick knitting laddy.
A similiar study in 2011 produced this: The newer study in 2012 was in the Telegraph not the times. http://www.aboutsant

ander.co.uk/csr/csr-

news/uk-plc-universi

ty-degrees-not-neces

sarily-critical-to-s

uccess.aspx
We know how much you like "studies"

Bear in mind for every study proving something there will be another study disproving it

Just curious, do you read the Daily Mail?

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toomush2drink says...
7:59pm Sun 25 Nov 12

hereallweek wrote:
Why doesn't this site have a moderator to remove all comments from people that have nothing to do with the topic. It puts me off. I'm sure others feel the same.
Totally agree, its always the usual suspects trying to out do each other or attacking anyone else who dares to post.

No point posting anything these days as they just take over with a load of comments totally unrelated to the subject trying to be discussed.

Editor take note...

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Alconcalcia says...
8:40pm Sun 25 Nov 12

Sad that a serious subject can;t be debated in grown up fashion. Hope the NS editorial staff make the decision to moderate future article's comments

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PaulErith says...
9:35am Mon 26 Nov 12

Alconcalcia wrote:
Sad that a serious subject can;t be debated in grown up fashion. Hope the NS editorial staff make the decision to moderate future article's comments
I don't really think anyone can say it's wrong or right to go to university. It's a personal choice. Maybe times have changed, but I went to university and when I graduated, it definitely helped me with my career. My first job was considerably more money than than any of my friends that had not gone to uni and had been working for 3 years. That's not necessarily everyone's experience, and it also depends on the industry that you want to get into as to whether it's the best thing to do or not.

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Gypo.Joe says...
10:26am Mon 26 Nov 12

Good morning girls, hows it hanging today ?

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Donna_T says...
11:44am Mon 26 Nov 12

Alconcalcia wrote:
Sad that a serious subject can;t be debated in grown up fashion. Hope the NS editorial staff make the decision to moderate future article's comments
Well said Alasdair.


Idiots.

Ohh and its can't, not can;t by the way.

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Outandabout says...
12:03pm Mon 26 Nov 12

PaulErith wrote:
Alconcalcia wrote:
Sad that a serious subject can;t be debated in grown up fashion. Hope the NS editorial staff make the decision to moderate future article's comments
I don't really think anyone can say it's wrong or right to go to university. It's a personal choice. Maybe times have changed, but I went to university and when I graduated, it definitely helped me with my career. My first job was considerably more money than than any of my friends that had not gone to uni and had been working for 3 years. That's not necessarily everyone's experience, and it also depends on the industry that you want to get into as to whether it's the best thing to do or not.
Paul, I'm guessing your degree was a while ago, which is why I feel it was relevant but today. It seems these days that a degree has no value. It seems that at school people are expected to go to school, then college then uni. As I said earlier its all vocational course now, it isn’t about broadening your knowledge unless a job is involved.. Years ago a friend secured an admin job with a degree in history, it had no bearing on the JD or person spec but showed her academic ability and helped. It depends then why are you going so you can determine if it is worthwhile. I did a degree when a mature student and loved it.

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PaulErith says...
12:34pm Mon 26 Nov 12

Outandabout wrote:
PaulErith wrote:
Alconcalcia wrote: Sad that a serious subject can;t be debated in grown up fashion. Hope the NS editorial staff make the decision to moderate future article's comments
I don't really think anyone can say it's wrong or right to go to university. It's a personal choice. Maybe times have changed, but I went to university and when I graduated, it definitely helped me with my career. My first job was considerably more money than than any of my friends that had not gone to uni and had been working for 3 years. That's not necessarily everyone's experience, and it also depends on the industry that you want to get into as to whether it's the best thing to do or not.
Paul, I'm guessing your degree was a while ago, which is why I feel it was relevant but today. It seems these days that a degree has no value. It seems that at school people are expected to go to school, then college then uni. As I said earlier its all vocational course now, it isn’t about broadening your knowledge unless a job is involved.. Years ago a friend secured an admin job with a degree in history, it had no bearing on the JD or person spec but showed her academic ability and helped. It depends then why are you going so you can determine if it is worthwhile. I did a degree when a mature student and loved it.
Yep, my degree was a while ago. I graduated in 1997. I agree that generally, a lot of the degrees these days will have absolutely no bearing on a future career, but just help to show academic ability.

Based purely on my experience, I'd recommend uni to anyone. I worked hard but it was also the best three years of my life in terms of the social aspect.

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Outandabout says...
1:42pm Mon 26 Nov 12

I agree Paul just the fact you were learnign something new was brilliant.. I was working so paid for mine in 1996. I enjoyed the study and you can't avoid doing uni related things too. The cost was about £250 a term and I paid that. I'm guessing you had a grant but since that time you will have more than repaid that with Income Tax. That is, to me, the problem. Free education has meant many non vocational courses are not run anymore but if you have the mind set to study you will work too and it was so short sighted introducing fees.

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Outandabout says...
1:44pm Mon 26 Nov 12

I meant fee paying education has killed off non vocational courses

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Tip-Top says...
2:34pm Mon 26 Nov 12

mouthalmighty wrote:
With 40yrs work experience working my way up, I have met a lot of people. It was the same story everywhere. I have worked with peopke from all walks of life.An degree does not give you commonsense, integrity, enthusiasm, diligence, nor a life time of experience. Quite often, youngsters just out of university are arrogant with expectations of getting a job, and if they do manage to get a job they expect to climb the ladder more quick
This is spot on.

A vast majority that I've come across think they can change the world and stick a man on the moon within a week, but can they can change a toner in a printer or understand and retain information like I take no sugar in my tea, no they can not.....As PaulErith has already alluded to, it seems a few only go for the social aspect and good luck to them!

Report this post »

Outandabout says...
5:02pm Mon 26 Nov 12

FYI 'Tip-Top' is not someone new, it was created today around 2pm. Just another username of another already here, take your pick from the usual suspects!

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Tip-Top says...
8:13am Tue 27 Nov 12

Outandabout wrote:
FYI 'Tip-Top' is not someone new, it was created today around 2pm. Just another username of another already here, take your pick from the usual suspects!
How do you know these things?

I've seen some of the flak you have received from some of the other users on here and thought it a little harsh to be honest, but now I'm not so sure.

FYI - I signed up on Friday, not "around 2pm" yesterday.....contac
t the administrators of the site, you have my permission and get all the details you like to see I'm not an alias of any kind......I await an apology, sweetcheeks.

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MsChevious says...
9:09am Tue 27 Nov 12

You do realise this article is about a decade out of date? In the late 90's / early 00's everyone was all about going to uni. You could get a degree in just about anything and with student loans and credit being shoved down your throat and a pretty healthy economy plenty of people who wouldn't have previously gone to uni decided to give it a shot.

Now students are looking at £9k a year to study with slim chance of any job after, let alone one with a salary to pay off their mountains of debt, university admissions are falling. Vocational courses are surging in popularity and more & more individuals and employers are valuing experience over academia.

So seriously, if you're trying to write a pertinent comment piece, you might actually want to get the background straight to start with.

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the wall says...
10:32am Tue 27 Nov 12

Most degree have nothing to do with IQ! Just shows your ability to behave like a parrot!

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You again? says...
1:23pm Tue 27 Nov 12

Unless you want a career in teaching, law, doctor etc. It's not worth going these days, especially with the outrageous tuition fee's. I've seen courses such as 'Beauty and Fashion' and 'football studies' I mean are kidding me!?

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You again? says...
1:24pm Tue 27 Nov 12

you*

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mouthalmighty says...
4:47pm Wed 28 Nov 12

Oh 'the wall'. You are so right. There is so much I did not remember or understand from my degree, it must have been parrot fashion to some extent.'. I do understand now , but I have time to really understand it. Shame init.

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Gypo.Joe says...
7:04pm Wed 28 Nov 12

I've got a couple of the 3 Degrees singles, will that qualify me.

"Dirty old mannnnnnnnnnnnnnn"

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mouthalmighty says...
4:49pm Thu 29 Nov 12

You qualify any time gypo.Joe. Your contribution Is always welcome in my book. I liked the three degrees too, but probably for different reasons.

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