Orpington scout group told by St Olave's School to leave

12:09pm Monday 15th October 2012 in News By Harry Kemble

Disgruntled members of the 3rd Orpington Scout Group outside their hut Disgruntled members of the 3rd Orpington Scout Group outside their hut

ONE of the world’s oldest scout groups is fearing for its future after a school declared it will be evicting it from its grounds.

The 3rd Orpington Scout Group built its own headquarters 46 years ago and has remained at the Goddington Lane site, which it shares with St Olave’s Grammar School, ever since.

However, in August St Olave’s reiterated it would now be using the site and the scout group would have to find another headquarters by July 2013.

Andrew Watkins, 37, a Cub Scout leader at the branch, has been connected with the group since he was eight.

He said: "If we were moved I would be absolutely distraught that is all I can say.

"The kids that have the common sense to think about it are thinking ‘why are they bullying us’"

The group was originally formed in 1929 making it one of the few scout groups to have survived through the war.

MP Jo Johnson and London Assembly member James Cleverly have both made attempts to persuade St Olave’s to change the decision by approaching the school personally.

Even the Duchess of Cambridge, a Scout ambassador, has sent a letter lending her support to the group.

Mr Watkins, of Warren Road, Orpington, said: "It is highly unfair because it is not like St Olave’s need the land.

"Personally, I did not think we had any problems with the school."

The scout group has 112 members and is recognised as the most successful scout group in the borough.

Mr Cleverly says he will help with efforts to find a new site for the group because he does not see an agreement being made between the two parties.

He said: "I am a huge fan of the work of the Scouts in general.

"And I am disappointed that a mutually agreeable position between the 3rd Orpington Scouts and St Olave's Grammar School seems not to be on the cards.

"Clearly, I will be happy to support their efforts to secure a new HQ and help protect their ability to continue their excellent work supporting and developing local young people."

St Olave's headteacher Aydin Önaç confirmed that the school would be using the site and wished the group all the best in the future.

He said: "The school has already explained to the Scout leaders that it requires to take back the accommodation for its own purposes.

"I cannot comment at this stage on the particular use as we are under pressure in so many different ways, both in terms of space and, more particularly, in terms of the financial pressure from Public Sector funding cuts.

"The governors have generously agreed to extend the Scouts’ occupation which should give them more than sufficient time to find alternative accommodation."

Comments(47)

Tonic says...
1:04pm Mon 15 Oct 12

Shame on you, St Olave's. What could they possibly need that small patch of land for after all this time? I suppose they want to sell it for yet more housing to be developed. If the Scouts built their own HQ, surely they have some say in the matter? What about St Olave's offering the Scouts use of the school hall as an alternative?

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Excalibur says...
2:06pm Mon 15 Oct 12

What a disgusting, mean-spirited school St Olave's is, talk about having no community spirit - and the headmaster dares to claim on the school website that St Olave’s has "a strong ethos of care and courtesy and a warm community feel". Rubbish!

It is utterly disgraceful that this school should turn its nose up and snub the local scouts, the local MP, the local MPA member and the local community. I hope that all involved remember this the next time the school come with their begging bowl.

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Invicta58 says...
4:06pm Mon 15 Oct 12

There will be a very simple explanation of what's behind this.

MONEY

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cmbecho says...
5:38pm Mon 15 Oct 12

The big society needs more than words.

In the 3rd Orpington, there is a group of volunteers (nobody in local scouting is paid for their time) working to make the world a better place for over 100 young people.

The community has done its part by building the HQ, volunteering its time and creating a brilliant scout group. Olave's, (a state school) needs to play its part in the big society by working with this fantastic community resource.

Scout groups change lives and make the world a better place. Over 3,000 young people in Bromley benefit from scouting - all thanks to volunteers working in partnership with their local communities. A partnership with the school that has been forged over the decades should not be ended without the school acknowledging its duty to the scout group and local young people.

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taz2553 says...
6:21pm Mon 15 Oct 12

cmbecho wrote:
The big society needs more than words.

In the 3rd Orpington, there is a group of volunteers (nobody in local scouting is paid for their time) working to make the world a better place for over 100 young people.

The community has done its part by building the HQ, volunteering its time and creating a brilliant scout group. Olave's, (a state school) needs to play its part in the big society by working with this fantastic community resource.

Scout groups change lives and make the world a better place. Over 3,000 young people in Bromley benefit from scouting - all thanks to volunteers working in partnership with their local communities. A partnership with the school that has been forged over the decades should not be ended without the school acknowledging its duty to the scout group and local young people.
Well said! So much for the 'Big Community'!

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Charlie8 says...
8:08pm Mon 15 Oct 12

The headmaster of St Olaves should hang his head in shame. Lets face it he wants to sell the land to the highest bidder which wouldn’t be the Scouts Association. On the actual site they would probably build one house for one family instead of leaving a hut that has been a place that has helped to shape 1000s of children in the local area INCLUDING children that have gone to St. Olaves. Schools should encourage places like the Thirdsden hut where children can learn so many different things including how to respect each other and the community around them. At the end of the day the St Olaves way is all about the money and nothing else matters.

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Randers1 says...
8:58pm Mon 15 Oct 12

The more you have the more you want shame on you St. Olaves this is pure greed and nothing else. Are these the values you teach your pupils??
WHICH BUILDER IS THE LAND PROMISED TO???

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OldscoutBacon says...
10:11pm Mon 15 Oct 12

I joined the 3rd Orpington as a cub, went through their Scouts and finally Venture Scouts at the Thirdsden Hut. I had some of the best times of my life in the group. I found it a great way to socialise and make life long friends, it was certainly educational, but it is not until you are a little older that you realise the grounding that scouting gives you.

I learnt more about teamworking, problem solving, friendship, compassion, teaching and leadership in these important formative years, than I have ever learnt in working for the public sector for over 30 years.

My son now attends Beavers at the 3rd Orpington and my wish is that he can continue to enjoy and benefit from the wealth of experience he will gain from scouting, as I and the hundreds of former group members before and after me have done.

It is truly a case of the large organisation trying to force out the small community group for it's own gain. But watch out because we are not yet ready to be bulldozed or swept under the carpet just yet! There is simply too much to be lost! Please continue to support our cause.

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duster says...
10:12pm Mon 15 Oct 12

How utterly disappointing of St Olave's school not to be able to understand and appreciate the benefits of allowing the Cubs and Scouts to continue using their own Scout Hut!! :-(

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Unbiased2 says...
10:47pm Mon 15 Oct 12

What Aydin is doing here is no surprise. If you take a look at Parentview.ofsted you will see how St Olaves reputation is taking a dive.
Just look into the history of this guy, it makes for disturbing reading!

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Chrisbitz says...
11:11pm Mon 15 Oct 12

Shame on St Olaves' Headmaster, Aydin. I wonder which developer the land will be sold to.
He can't say what purpose he needs the land for, as he's too ashamed.

Great example for the kids to learn from. NOT.

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callow3 says...
11:25pm Mon 15 Oct 12

What a shame that Olaves are so tunnel visioned in their bid to secure land for cash purposes, it is even lower to do it on the pretence that they need the storage space!

This is a fantastic facility providing a stable safe environment large enough to house our beaver, cubs, scouts and explorer groups, it will be hard to find any where that can accommodate the large number of scouts with out significant costs, all of which will be raised by the hard work of the vast number of volunteers and helpers involved in orpington 3rd.

Lets hope that Olaves see sense and allow this fantastic community facility to stay in place or give a highly substancial donation to the relocation costs after they sell to the highest bidder!!!

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Ex chairman says...
11:59pm Mon 15 Oct 12

This is not the first time St Olaves have acted in this way. They previously terminated the occupation of an adjacent plot used by Orpington District Scouts citing their need to build a Netball Court on the land but this has never been built.

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pitts.je@gmail.com says...
8:37am Tue 16 Oct 12

I think the previous promise to build a netball court as a way to evict the previous Scout group must have been leading up to this final land grab. They want to sell off all the strip of land and build houses at huge profit. I hope the Jo Johnson and others in a position to block this plan will review the previous netball court debacle and see if they have acted in a grossly improper way. This is a huge kick in the teeth to both adult volunteers that give their time freely for no reward and the young people who have made this group such a great success. The completely mean spirited governors at the school are a fine example of lip service in support of the community while pulling the rug from under the Scouts. It is this attitude that slowly destroys everything good in society. This ethos shows why these days you should avoid sending your children to such a morally broken school. Shame, shame and shame again on Olaves, how low you have sunk!

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Gadgetmum says...
9:17am Tue 16 Oct 12

St Olaves head teacher, governors and PTA should be ashamed of their actions in this blatant act of greed over the communities needs.

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MitchBrownie says...
10:12am Tue 16 Oct 12

I have to reiterate everything that everyone has posted about 'Thirsden', the home of 3rd Orpington Scouts. I just find it impossible to believe that a prestigious school such as St Olave's with it's 'caring and community' ethos can think about evicting the Scouts. I just hope everyone can bring pressure to reverse the situation. I hope the good people of Goddington Lane will also join in a campaign to stop this outrageous act. St Olave's has a great deal of open space so surely they can find somewhere else to use as 'storage'.

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BeaversRock says...
10:45am Tue 16 Oct 12

The St. Olave's Mission Statement states that "St Olave’s retains a small school ethos ... where there is a sense of pride and loyalty in being part of a multi-cultural community." What a load of rubbish!!!

Their recent actions have shown they care nothing for the local community - and have shown that they are loyal to themselves alone.

Come on St. Olaves - renew the lease (you KNOW you should - you got the land for nothing after all!) and let the Scouts and ALL the other Thirdsden users continue to use this community facility.

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Invicta58 says...
11:07am Tue 16 Oct 12

In a few week's time will be Rememberance Sunday where members of the Scout family march, watched by hundreds of people in Orpington.

Have you thought about some flyers explaining what St Olave's are planning to do to your troop. Or how about some "Save the 3rd Orpington Scouts" badges or strategically placed banners? How about some big guns from Scout HQ? This is a big public event so a great time to get your point across.

Just the threat of adverse publicity may get them to change their mind.

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JohnHemming-Clark says...
11:34am Tue 16 Oct 12

All us unpaid, but enthusiastic, scout leaders wonder what those "worthies" on the Scouts' Bromley District Executive Committee actually do. The answer is, of course, that we all have our part to play; and when it comes to a situation as we have now we need to call on our worthy representatives to act. So come on James Cleverly AM, come on Bob Neill MP, put your money where your Vice Presidencies are and tell St Olaves that we need more scout huts to help alleviate the 30,000+ waiting list that we have nationally, not fewer.

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Oldschool1 says...
1:21pm Tue 16 Oct 12

The Headmaster's Welcome claims to provide a school with a strong ethos of care and courtesy and a warm community feel. It is therefore sad that he is unable to put these words into practice. It seems to be a case of do as I say and not as I do and is not the message he should be sending out to the boys that go there. It is becoming increasingly clear that money is the driving force here with little regard to the local community and they have shown total arrogance. I really hope you can generate the same level of publicity that the Headmaster was able to do when he arrived at the school by eating a tarantula. That was clearly a publicity stunt to get his name in the papers and I really hope that everyone gets behind you and lends you their support.

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Great Jerboa says...
2:19pm Tue 16 Oct 12

As Beaver Scout Leader of 24 children aged 6 -8 I teach our scout promise,'To do our best, to be kind and helpful and to love God' - perhaps the Headmaster and Board of Governors of St. Olaves School would like to attend my colony meeting one Wednesday and learn how to SHARE and to be FAIR to others.... I am sure I could find some space on the benches for them - but I dont stand for any nonsense and woe betide if they dont pay attention! I am sure they will learn something which is so obviously lacking in their so called community skills at the moment! This affair is a total disgrace, heads should be hanging in shame. I give an open invitation to the Head Master and the Board of Governors to come along and explain to my Beaver Colony just WHY they are doing this deed.... (Doubt if I will get a response....)

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Scouts Rule says...
3:21pm Tue 16 Oct 12

The Headteacher and Governors should be bowing their heads in shame at such a disgraceful situation.

The Headteacher says he doesn't know what they will use it for but "given the financial pressures from funding cuts" says it all - they will obviously sell the land (and the rest that they got under the false pretence of wanting to build a netball court) for development.

St Olaves how can you "take back the accommodation" when it was NEVER yours in the first place. Thirdsden was built and paid for by the parents of the Scouts.

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JohnHemming-Clark says...
4:00pm Tue 16 Oct 12

"The 3rd Orpington Scout Group built its own headquarters 46 years ago and has remained at the Goddington Lane site, which it shares with St Olave's..." was airbrushed from the school's Wikipedia entry yesterday. By whom I wonder?

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Peony says...
4:05pm Tue 16 Oct 12

Any person or organization that puts money before the well-being of their community is morally redundant.

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LonBoys says...
5:43pm Tue 16 Oct 12

How sad that a local, once highly thought of school should stoop to such a shameful level. 3rd Orpington scout group are a thriving, highly active group in each age group. They occupy a tiny corner of the land, which didn't belong to St Olaves in the first place. These children and young people are not just playing games each week ... they are learning valuable life lessons. Take a look at their uniforms and consider what they have achieved to earn all their many badges! The Headmaster and Governors of Olaves should take a long hard look at what they closing down. No land owner with a heart for the community would consider doing such a thing.

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ManicHippo says...
8:06pm Tue 16 Oct 12

Aydin Onac (pronounced onack) should be absolutely ashamed of himself. In one of his endless after school talks he stated that "we are part of a multi-cultural society and have strong views on community and ethos" obviously I am wasting an hour and a half of my time listening to such an oaf rant on about things he does not really mean.

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excubuptoleader says...
8:51pm Tue 16 Oct 12

It also should be noted that the school acquired this land by default. They gained it when they became a GM school as the council gave it to them. This actually led to the school asking the Scout Group why they kept being sent money (the rent), it was actually the Scout Group that told the school they were the groups landlord!!

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steadz says...
9:07pm Tue 16 Oct 12

Lets hope all these comments shame the management and govenors of the school in to changing their mind.

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stephen goodwright says...
8:46am Wed 17 Oct 12

unbelievable the arrogance of this school

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KEZAUK says...
11:36am Wed 17 Oct 12

Peony wrote:
Any person or organization that puts money before the well-being of their community is morally redundant.
I agree completely.. 1000s and 1000s of kids have memoires that will last a life time, and experience they will treasure forever. And this should be available for our community for years to come…
They should be a shamed of them selves.

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BeaversRock says...
11:43am Wed 17 Oct 12

I'm with Great Jerboa: let's get the Head Master and the Board of Governors at a Beaver Colony meeting and get them to explain themselves ...

I would love to set two dozen Beavers loose on them for an hour - reckon we could sell tickets to that to aid in the fundraising :-)

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dayan spegginton says...
5:20pm Wed 17 Oct 12

I would just like to emphasis that we students hate him too, and think this is ridiculous

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dayan spegginton says...
5:36pm Wed 17 Oct 12

yo dont dis im he iz ma #1 mandem

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Charlie76 says...
7:52pm Wed 17 Oct 12

Not only are these young people being kept off the street corners, they are being taught life long lessons in how to be a decent and active part of of the community, isn't that what we all want, including the government?
Now, it seems no-one has the power to over rule this decision...mmm...

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Tipseh says...
7:53pm Wed 17 Oct 12

I am actually a student at this school and I'd like to point out that no one wants Aydin Onac at the school at all. Most teachers don't like him, and I can assure you that hardly any students can tolerate him. Just by searching for him on ratemyteacher.com you can see the general opinion on him and his pompous and arrogant views. What he is doing here is completely without any student, and most probably any teacher's backing, and as a student this is the first I have heard of the matter. He most likely IS doing it for the monetary gain of the school and I genuinely cannot think of any real use we could put that hall to, and I completely agree that it would be of more use as the Scout group's HQ. As a student of Saint Olaves, I am against what we are doing here, and I can say that many others that have heard about it are against this too.

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teflonbadger says...
8:07pm Wed 17 Oct 12

Also an Olave's student (and scout), and can confirm the universal disdain for our headmaster. I am ashamed at what he's doing, and this is one of many actions than seek to confirm his stupendous fatuity. My fellow students are also in awe at this story, and sympathise greatly.

Also, would defo buy tickets for Beavers vs Onac.

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quicksilver71 says...
9:28pm Wed 17 Oct 12

The headmaster wishes the scout group well? So why are he and his governors condemning it to almost certain closure. As a parent of one of the scouts, I am shocked and saddened that the school has shown so little compassion and community feeling.

I hope that the parents of St Olaves pupils, the local residents, and other community members will support our campaign to save the group and persuade the school to reconsider their plans. There is more to life than making money - especially if you are meant to be a not for profit organisation.

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anon1034 says...
9:46pm Wed 17 Oct 12

As a student of the school, I hope anybody who is opposed to this will be interested in this petition which will be shown to Mr Onac in due course http://www.ipetition
s.com/petition/olave
sscouteviction/

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Queue says...
7:07pm Thu 18 Oct 12

Can I add my voice and that of my family to the comments on St Olaves piracy of Scout land. Historically and morally they have no right to this land. Unfortunately the actions of Bromley Council gave them the legal right to the land. It is beyond belief that there is no one in the country that seems able to bring this matter to the correct conclusion.

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ninja1eye says...
9:10pm Thu 18 Oct 12

BeaversRock wrote:
The St. Olave's Mission Statement states that "St Olave’s retains a small school ethos ... where there is a sense of pride and loyalty in being part of a multi-cultural community." What a load of rubbish!!!

Their recent actions have shown they care nothing for the local community - and have shown that they are loyal to themselves alone.

Come on St. Olaves - renew the lease (you KNOW you should - you got the land for nothing after all!) and let the Scouts and ALL the other Thirdsden users continue to use this community facility.
I would just like to point out that this is just one in a long line of stupid things that Onac has done, (don't even get me started on the time when he claimed that Olavians had "five times as much talent" as a normal person), but no one here actually supports him, so please don't throw the kids and other staff in with him! But yes, none of us want the land taken either. And +1 more for Onac vs Beavers

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Randers1 says...
9:27pm Thu 18 Oct 12

Onac is clearly not liked or valued by his own pupils and staff. Why don't you call a meeting of your Governors and terminate his contract?????
Job done everybody is happy!!!!

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ronboyj says...
9:29am Fri 19 Oct 12

I hope this comprehensive article will publise the deplorable situation that 'Thirsden' is now in. Let us hope that this publicity will persuade St Olaves to think again. I understand that Bromley Council allowed this situation to happen by passing over the land without the protection it originally had with them, how was that allowed to happen? Keep up the publicity everyone! Good luck on the bungee jump.

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the wall says...
9:59am Fri 19 Oct 12

Do the Scouts have a tenancy agreement? Because if the Scouts have been paying rent then they have some rights.

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Hannylou says...
5:22pm Fri 19 Oct 12

We needed as much support as we can get and the overall feedback from this story and the ipetition is that this just should not happen. St Olaves your reputation is on the line the community will not forgive you for this, please see reason and back down!

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BeaverMum says...
9:22pm Fri 19 Oct 12

My daughter is 3 years old. Every time we drive past Thirdsden she yells "BEAVERS!" as loud as she can. She can't wait until she's 6 and old enough to be a Beaver (like her big brother is now). I just hope the Thirdsden is still there - in our street - in 3 years time ...

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nadene.helsdown says...
11:24pm Sat 20 Oct 12

I have a son that goes to Thirdsden and he adked mummy why would someone be so mean and make us leave our hut and probably knock it down.

I explained to him its all about money
and power and they will probably sell of the land to build houses on the land.

My daugher is also waiting to start beavers and I dont want to upset her by telling her yet that she might be able to go....

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Hannylou says...
4:46pm Tue 23 Oct 12

I've just heard that the Evening Standard are going to do an article which is a fantastic way for us to let the whole of London know.

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