London bus strike is causing major disruption (From News Shopper)

Sack them all. Replace them with hard working people sitting in the job centre who would love to sit on their backsides all day driving a bus. I hate public sector workers. The country's in a recession, we're all feeling the pinch. But don't worry you all hold the country to ransom and the rest of us will be late for our jobs.

You see, voting for Boris Johnson was a waste of time wasn't it

I really think that it is a bit rich for the busmen, along with the various other public vehicle drivers, should even be thinking of getting some extra dosh just for doing their job, with what? With a smile… Properly?

Either they do their job or they don't.

I mean on that basis, shouldn't we people from south east London who are going to be greatly inconvenienced by this shenanigans, not perhaps be paid a bonus for having to live here?

Say £800?

It can be taken off of the council tax, it's easy to do.

It's easy to criticise if you are in well paid work. Privitisation killed public transport and turned it into a profit making machine unlike any transport system in the world which accepts it as part of investment to keep business moving, public transport is a service, not a business. Anyone remember the low fares in the 80's called 'Fairs fare'. Killed off by Bromley Council in a House of Lords case which stopped the (Ken Livingstone controlled) GLC from operating a subsidised fares system paid out of the rates, which is why fares are now so high it is practically the most expensive in the world. I don't drive a bus but if 90% of those that do feel that strongly to go on strike then there must be something in it. They are goiing to be working longer for the same money while everyone else is getting more. I'm sure you two would put up with that wouldn't you. Strike is the LAST option not the first. All these people have mortgages and rent to pay, no one can afford a strike. Boris needs to stop passing the buck to the bus companies. Today has shown him what support there is from the working people driving buses and, like he tends to do, he will ignore them, he's a Tory, it's what they do. That's who you elected.

Outandabout wrote:
It's easy to criticise if you are in well paid work. Privitisation killed public transport and turned it into a profit making machine unlike any transport system in the world which accepts it as part of investment to keep business moving, public transport is a service, not a business. Anyone remember the low fares in the 80's called 'Fairs fare'. Killed off by Bromley Council in a House of Lords case which stopped the (Ken Livingstone controlled) GLC from operating a subsidised fares system paid out of the rates, which is why fares are now so high it is practically the most expensive in the world. I don't drive a bus but if 90% of those that do feel that strongly to go on strike then there must be something in it. They are goiing to be working longer for the same money while everyone else is getting more. I'm sure you two would put up with that wouldn't you. Strike is the LAST option not the first. All these people have mortgages and rent to pay, no one can afford a strike. Boris needs to stop passing the buck to the bus companies. Today has shown him what support there is from the working people driving buses and, like he tends to do, he will ignore them, he's a Tory, it's what they do. That's who you elected.

There's lots of people in the private sector who are not in well paid jobs. Possibly they haven't had pay rises for a few years. Yet, most of these people cannot go on strike. I think striking is totally wrong.

Do you want to know how much extra I get paid because the Olympics are on? Nothing. The only difference is I have to change my working hours to accommodate the millions of tourists infecting my commute every morning. Typical public sector, "oh they need us to help out during a big event?" "Excellent, lets strike until we get £500 more for driving a bus around." So many people would kill for that work, and I for one hope they sack all of them, employ a load of eastern Europeans so I can watch all the ex bus drivers sitting in the Jobcentre, moaning about how "the polish" took their jobs. Typical lazy British people, walking around with their hands out, and if they don't get what they want, come up with some human rights nonsense to make it sound politically motivated rather than straight up ransom. Here's hoping they all get sacked so they can realise what real hardship is.

I'm an ex-bus driver of over 20 years service. I was also a member of a garage tu committee and served as a shop steward for the supervisory staff of London Buses.

I have never agreed with any strike unless other options have been exhausted. If I was asked to support a strike, the answer would always be 'No' unless the people calling it could clearly demonstrate to me that there was an injustice, or they were being asked to carry out clearly unreasonable tasks or they were being put in immediate danger. I believed, and still do to a point, in working to rule. This causes disruption to the operator as you are working exactly what your contract says. Many operators rely on staff going that one step further to help maintain a service, often at no recompence to the staff member. You cannot be dismissed or disciplined for carrying out what your contract states. The benefit to staff is, they still get paid! go on strike, you don't and the operator has in some ways saved a substantial amount of money.
I left Unite when they 'stitched me up in an industrial claim that I was led to believe, by Unite, funnily by Kavanagh, that I would win (I honestly believed and still do that my case was very strong and win-able). I have no time for any union holding the innocent parties at ransom just because they want extra pay for working the Olympics.
I drove buses during the Euro 96 tournament, I didn't get any extra. I worked through the London Riots 20-30 years ago, I didn't get any extra, I attended security incidents through the London bombings, both IRA and Al Queeda, I did'nt get get any extra.
I find myself these days one of the unemployed through no fault of mine and dearly wish I could get up in the mornings and go to work. How dare any striker abuse what they have and should be appreciative that they have a job. I hate to say it but I agree with some of the comments regarding sacking them. A legal injunction was obtained and yet this has been blatently ignored. This is a sackable offence under gross misconduct and therefore breach of contract. In this instance I agree with the call for dismissals.

Dear Mr. Bus Operator, I'd be happy to come and drive for you.
What's in it for me?...meaningful employment and a sense of worth and an opportunity to get some self-respect that I have lost.
What do you get?...a loyal and trustworthy individual who simply wants to earn his way in society and, maybe more importantly, NOT A UNION MEMBER!!

boffin9139 wrote:
I'm an ex-bus driver of over 20 years service. I was also a member of a garage tu committee and served as a shop steward for the supervisory staff of London Buses. I have never agreed with any strike unless other options have been exhausted. If I was asked to support a strike, the answer would always be 'No' unless the people calling it could clearly demonstrate to me that there was an injustice, or they were being asked to carry out clearly unreasonable tasks or they were being put in immediate danger. I believed, and still do to a point, in working to rule. This causes disruption to the operator as you are working exactly what your contract says. Many operators rely on staff going that one step further to help maintain a service, often at no recompence to the staff member. You cannot be dismissed or disciplined for carrying out what your contract states. The benefit to staff is, they still get paid! go on strike, you don't and the operator has in some ways saved a substantial amount of money. I left Unite when they 'stitched me up in an industrial claim that I was led to believe, by Unite, funnily by Kavanagh, that I would win (I honestly believed and still do that my case was very strong and win-able). I have no time for any union holding the innocent parties at ransom just because they want extra pay for working the Olympics. I drove buses during the Euro 96 tournament, I didn't get any extra. I worked through the London Riots 20-30 years ago, I didn't get any extra, I attended security incidents through the London bombings, both IRA and Al Queeda, I did'nt get get any extra. I find myself these days one of the unemployed through no fault of mine and dearly wish I could get up in the mornings and go to work. How dare any striker abuse what they have and should be appreciative that they have a job. I hate to say it but I agree with some of the comments regarding sacking them. A legal injunction was obtained and yet this has been blatently ignored. This is a sackable offence under gross misconduct and therefore breach of contract. In this instance I agree with the call for dismissals. Dear Mr. Bus Operator, I'd be happy to come and drive for you. What's in it for me?...meaningful employment and a sense of worth and an opportunity to get some self-respect that I have lost. What do you get?...a loyal and trustworthy individual who simply wants to earn his way in society and, maybe more importantly, NOT A UNION MEMBER!!

My thoughts entirely. Rather than fighting for an extra £500 for doing your JOB, some people would do it for £500 less a month, just to have a job at all. I hope you get a job soon mate!

The fact is the bosses of the bus drivers are getting paid huge bounes and the drivers were getting nothing.

PSV drivers...........RO
FL.

Most of them couldn't drive a greasy stick up a dogs rear end.

Sack em !

the wall wrote:
The fact is the bosses of the bus drivers are getting paid huge bounes and the drivers were getting nothing.

Unfortunately that's the way just about any business works though. There's always a 'fat cat' making the money while the workers earn little in comparison. I don't think bus driver's pay is that bad. There's certainly worse jobs out there. I don't think striking is right.

If they get more money when it's busy, will they promise to give some back when it's quiet? We all moan about our jobs from time to time but really we are lucky to have work and certainly shouldn't demand extra just for doing what is expected of us. I work all sorts of shifts, including weekends and bank holidays, and never get any extra, just a day off in lieu. I have no sympathy for the bus drivers. Put up or shut up.

I never thought Id see the day when a Millwall (?) supporter agreed with a Charlton supporter. Thanks for your supporting words MFC Lion!

The Wall...Agreed, the bosses may be paid a high wage but I'd bet they too won't be getting a bonus for doing their job!

For those that don't know...
Bus drivers are paid overtime should they finish after their alloted end of duty. Due to agreements back in the late 80'a/early90's, some duties which end before an agreed time on duty - in my day it was about 7hrs 25 minutes won't qualify for payment until that duty time has been reached. This is due to the duty paying up to the time but staff were finishing beforehand and therefore was in receipt of a kind of 'benefit. Therefore if you finished after 7hrs 25 mins, then ot was payable. In some situations, buses would be 'turned short' to attempt to get drivers back to finish on time.
I probably haven't explained it well enough but what I'm trying to lead to is...
If, during the Olympics, a driver finishes after his allocated time due to extra traffic on the road, heavy passenger loadings etc, he or she will, providing they go past the magical number of 7hrs and 25 mins (assuming it hasn't changed) will be paid ot whic, would be the norm in many other non-transport industries where specified in contract.

Jeeepsie Joe...
I trained on routemasters and DMS type buses (the first one person type buses in use on London Roads). The training was difficult and the test that all trainee drivers was required to take then was stringent and unforgiving. If you didn't meet the criteria, you simply did not get the badge. The Tories did away with the training school at Chiswick by introducing Privatisation across the UK.
Since then I have seen both as a 'civilian' and a senior Inspector, the demise of skilled and proud bus drivers. The training does not appear to be as tight as it was in my day. so in some ways I agree with your comment however, for anyone not involved in or has been involved in bus operations, the vehicle used now are different to the good old RM etc and require didfferent ways of driving and therefore different training requirements. I fully accept your opinion and have nothing to say about it but, I feel it is unfair to tarnish all bus drivers with the same comment as there are still some proud drivers who do care for their passengers and other road users...not many I agree but some do exist.
Apologies for going on too long!

I work in a sector where talk of a pay rise raises our spirits because at least it makes everyone laugh. The thing is, I'm not a bus driver and I won't condemn those who are. There is overwhelming support amongst the bus drivers and I bet all those anti union, table thumping 'I'm lucky to have a job brigade' won't give their bonus, pay, better conditions or pay rise back if the Union succeeds in getting what the members MANDATED their executive to seek on their behalf. Some years ago I reluctantly had to ask staff if they were in favour of a strike vote, not a strike, just the vote to ballot members because redundancies were threatened. Itw as a tactic to show the managers the strength of feeling. Most were in favour of the ballot. I took the names of those against and said "well, you can't vote against challenging if you yourself won't agree to be the one to be redundant rather than someone who doesn't want it to happen”. Only fair. The redundancies didn’t happen, not because we were lucky to have jobs or kept our head down ‘happy with our lot’ but because the organisation knew it had a fight on its hands. The vote was taken again this time 100% in favour. It’s that old saying ‘I’d rather die on my feet than live on my knees’. Too many people capitulate, there is no fight anymore and rich companies walk all over the workforce and people let it happen.

boffin9139: You hit the nail on the head -privatisation. When you trained it was London Transport. London underground Ltd is paying its staff more. Privitisation has reduced the services because quiet routes are not profit making. Staff now have to pay for their own training and uniform. The training is by way of a credit agreement. The conditons were better years ago because these sectors were unionised. NO Perk or condition was given ever given freely, holiday pay, maternity pay, even hard hats on building sites all came about from years of campaigns by the workers via their unions.

Outandabout wrote:
It's easy to criticise if you are in well paid work. Privitisation killed public transport and turned it into a profit making machine unlike any transport system in the world which accepts it as part of investment to keep business moving, public transport is a service, not a business. Anyone remember the low fares in the 80's called 'Fairs fare'. Killed off by Bromley Council in a House of Lords case which stopped the (Ken Livingstone controlled) GLC from operating a subsidised fares system paid out of the rates, which is why fares are now so high it is practically the most expensive in the world. I don't drive a bus but if 90% of those that do feel that strongly to go on strike then there must be something in it. They are goiing to be working longer for the same money while everyone else is getting more. I'm sure you two would put up with that wouldn't you. Strike is the LAST option not the first. All these people have mortgages and rent to pay, no one can afford a strike. Boris needs to stop passing the buck to the bus companies. Today has shown him what support there is from the working people driving buses and, like he tends to do, he will ignore them, he's a Tory, it's what they do. That's who you elected.

Bus drivers ARE well paid, in fact they are the highest paid drivers in the country (including HGV drivers) I left the buses 6 years ago and was on £390 per week then (that's after deductions) not bad for just driving along a pre set route, easiest job I ever did.

That should read 'Among the highest paid drivers

My husband is a bus driver , and he does NOT earn £390.00 per week after deductions. If he was paid this much I would not need to work to pay the mortgage.

Outandabout...
I'm not sure where you got your info from regarding drivers having to pay for their own training and uniform.
I finished with TfL in 2007. Companies operating under TfL contracts provided uniform and training.
You may be correct in operations outside London and therefore TfL control but in London, I understand the operator pays but I stand to be corrected!

Unions provide a vital service in protecting workers rights. But when they abuse that power to try and get something for nothing they lose huge and vital public support. Arthur Scargill tried to bring down a democratically government and the union movement has never recovered from this and so workers have suffered.

Or to put it another way: Why on earth were the drivers who usually operate the buses to Orpington station at 6.00 in the morning on strike this morning because of potential Olympic stress?

boffin9139 wrote:
Outandabout...
I'm not sure where you got your info from regarding drivers having to pay for their own training and uniform.
I finished with TfL in 2007. Companies operating under TfL contracts provided uniform and training.
You may be correct in operations outside London and therefore TfL control but in London, I understand the operator pays but I stand to be corrected!

Two companies I know of have a clause in the contract that having been trained by the company and leave within x years you repay the cost of training and provision of uniform. Re Burnout and the miners: The governing body of a union is it's conference. Conference gives the executive directions for the year. In 1984 the Miners arrived at conference with a mandate from their regions that if any pit is threatened with closure then a national strike will take place. All delegates voted in favour and that was the policy. When pits were threatened out they went, based on that mandate. NACODS the union of pit deputies (who, if are on strike close the pit because they deal with safety) had a strike ballot during the miners strike. 95% voted in favour yet their union failed to call them out. Scargill didn't kill the industry, Thatcher did by importing coal from Poland and other countries who, unlike us, kept their mining industry and communities alive by subsidising the industry. You think the industry would be alive and kicking had they not taken action? The plan was to kill the pits and they did. Scargill didn't do that. Sir. Peter Walker, at the time energy secretary, agreed a deal with Scargill a few weeks into the strike that would keep pits open defining pits as 'un minable' rather than 'uneconomic' Thatcher over ruled the deal.

Outandabout...
You're right about the training and uniform thing if you leave within a period of time.
That was in place in my day and is in place in many businesses where training is provided.
Specific training is costly and any business cannot afford to provide this training only to lose the benefit of it should the employee leave the business and take that skill obtained through the training to a competitor.
It is usually structured in a way that the 'payback' diminishes over a period of time.
This is not unique to bus companies and I'm sure that anyone reading this who runs a business and provides specific training would agree to my statement.
As as an example. In my line of work, specific training can cost up to £7k for a skill necessaruy to the task/job. If I as an employer were to pay to have an employee trained as I may be legally required to have, I would not be able to pay that sort of cost only to see them walk soon after. I would be at a financial and manpower/experience loss that my competitor would gain from.
As I say, it is not unique to bus operations, nor the public sector.
Hope that makes sense!

sick of people claiming bus drivers ar well paid and there job is easy!! well may i point out that on the back window of every bus is a phone number for people to to do the job so if driving a bus is that good why ars thay so short of drivers

I work for Southeastern trains and we are main transport carrier to all the Olympics events and we are NOT going on strike and also we are NOT getting extra pay. For me it's just normal working day at the office. I'm just getting fedup with the Olympics and i will be glad when it's all over.

one thing for sure . with the bus drivers on strick today the roads were nice and clear . must be all them buses causing the conjestion.......

Bus driving is a great job, be at work for anything between 40 to 70+ hours per week and get paid for only 40 hrs and you'll only know what is your start time / finish time at 24hrs notice, if your lucky you might be told what duties are doing for 2/3 days in a row, start at 6am one day and then start at 11am the next day and then maybe 4am and your workday might be 5 hrs or 8hrs or even 12hr day and you might get 10hrs rest between duties, you'll be working for 6 consecutive days between rest days (you'll get 4 days rest tho to make up your missed days) as new driver you have very little control off what your week will be and this can be for as long as 2yrs , so planning a evening out is not always possible and you might get a uniform after a year.
The pay for new drivers is roughly £11,000 below London average wage (£33,000) £3,000 below the national average wage (£25,000) roughly £7,000 below what the media says the average bus wage is (£28,000).
Bus companies find it hard to keep new drivers and have a very high turnover rate, how would you feel if you was doing the same job with a person who was being paid £150 plus per week more than you and it seems there is a army off people from the public to the bus companies to TFL and VOSA watching you and trying to get you sacked or points off you driving licence.
I was unemployed for 2 months and I'm a new driver and I joined the buses at it's better than the great life the media says that the people on the dole have untill you've been on the dole and find out how not great it is.

I have no real problem with the drivers striking - if that's what the union have voted for in their ballot, then it's their right to do so. It's just a question about the issue in hand.

The issue here is obviously the Olympic bonus. Now, I don't agree that transport workers should get a bonus for doing their normal job, albeit during a busy period. There are often busy periods in all forms of employment - you just get through it and possibly get some overtime where appropriate.

However, given that many other transport workers (train/Tube drivers, DLR staff, etc) HAVE been granted Olympic bonuses, I do think it's only fair that this extends to bus drivers. It's only that they're employed privately - and not by TfL - that it hasn't been sorted by now.

As I say, personally, I don't think anyone should get an Olympic bonus, but if you give it to some, others in similar roles should get it as well. It's only fair.

...not interested in buses or trains.

Polly Staight wrote:
I really think that it is a bit rich for the busmen, along with the various other public vehicle drivers, should even be thinking of getting some extra dosh just for doing their job, with what? With a smile… Properly?

Either they do their job or they don't.

I mean on that basis, shouldn't we people from south east London who are going to be greatly inconvenienced by this shenanigans, not perhaps be paid a bonus for having to live here?

Say £800?

It can be taken off of the council tax, it's easy to do.

I couldn't agree more with Polly Staight. Living in Greenwich is already becoming stressful, the park has been completely spoiled and the heath is no better. Some roads are already closed to traffic and goodness knows what diversions will be in place for the buses. Noticed a sign on Blackheath yesterday to do with 177, 180 and 188 diverting to the heath????

I am a puiblic service worker, who requires regular hospital treatment for a life changing condition. To attend these appointments I have to take annaul leave or work my extra hours to take flexi. Usually a friend takes me to my appointments by bus but because bus drivers decided to strike I had to get the train costing me over 8 quid that I didn't have and taking me ages to get there, arrived exhausted and in a lot of pain.

I have to work during the olympics and our managerment are cuting us no slack with getting too and from work, if we don't turn up we will be disciplined. Whilst I understand that bus drivers have a hard job so do other people. No one forced these people to be bus drivers like no one forced me to be a public service worker so please guys along with everyone else in London suck it up and get on with your jobs.

Yankees...
What you've described applies to what is known as 'spare' drivers.
Thay are drivers who are waiting to be allocated to a regular route. They provide the cover when someone goes sick or on leave etc.
I also suggest that if you are that disillusioned about the job, you call it a day,resign and move on to something which is more suited to your 'skills'!

No one is out to get you but if you put yourself in a position where you can be criticised, sorry, you can't expect to get away with poor attitude to your duty.

Or...you have put yourself across, probably wrongly and I apologise if I have read your comment incorrectly, to be happy to let the state and the tax-payer keep you by being on the dole. Is that the truth, and not the 'poor' conditions in which you work?

Buttercup wrote:
I am a puiblic service worker, who requires regular hospital treatment for a life changing condition. To attend these appointments I have to take annaul leave or work my extra hours to take flexi. Usually a friend takes me to my appointments by bus but because bus drivers decided to strike I had to get the train costing me over 8 quid that I didn't have and taking me ages to get there, arrived exhausted and in a lot of pain.

I have to work during the olympics and our managerment are cuting us no slack with getting too and from work, if we don't turn up we will be disciplined. Whilst I understand that bus drivers have a hard job so do other people. No one forced these people to be bus drivers like no one forced me to be a public service worker so please guys along with everyone else in London suck it up and get on with your jobs.

I'm sorry to read of your health problems but you do have many legal rights in relation to time off for attending these types of appointments. I don't want to get into advice 'on air'. Your Union may be able to assist or the Citizens Advice. you have rights conveyed under the 'Equality Act 2010' and some other assistance that isn't based on means

Ahhh so some of you were a bit late for work... SHAME. Lets all accept what someone who gets an obscene bonus says while we get nish. The strikers are losing a lot of money to fight for something they believe to be right. Just because you wont/cant strike doesnt mean we should all lie back and let them tickle our tummies. Stike more until the fatcats share the wealth just a little.

Outandabout wrote:

Buttercup wrote: I am a puiblic service worker, who requires regular hospital treatment for a life changing condition. To attend these appointments I have to take annaul leave or work my extra hours to take flexi. Usually a friend takes me to my appointments by bus but because bus drivers decided to strike I had to get the train costing me over 8 quid that I didn't have and taking me ages to get there, arrived exhausted and in a lot of pain. I have to work during the olympics and our managerment are cuting us no slack with getting too and from work, if we don't turn up we will be disciplined. Whilst I understand that bus drivers have a hard job so do other people. No one forced these people to be bus drivers like no one forced me to be a public service worker so please guys along with everyone else in London suck it up and get on with your jobs.

I'm sorry to read of your health problems but you do have many legal rights in relation to time off for attending these types of appointments. I don't want to get into advice 'on air'. Your Union may be able to assist or the Citizens Advice. you have rights conveyed under the 'Equality Act 2010' and some other assistance that isn't based on means

Thank you Outandabout. I have contacted the union but I may as well be whistling in the wind. They are more interested in headline grabbing fights and big stories than helping out their everyday members. But I will go to the CAB and see what advice they can offer. Thank you.

Poor buggers are going to have to do a bit more work, arrgh. If they get this bonus they can use it to go on a customer care course or get their eyes tested when they pull out on other cars and for jumping red lights, which is the latest craze with them. And with those listed above shows thay do not care about their passengers at all. Without the passengers they would not have a job. And yes, there are somepolite drivers and I thank them...

Buttercup wrote:

Outandabout wrote:

Buttercup wrote: I am a puiblic service worker, who requires regular hospital treatment for a life changing condition. To attend these appointments I have to take annaul leave or work my extra hours to take flexi. Usually a friend takes me to my appointments by bus but because bus drivers decided to strike I had to get the train costing me over 8 quid that I didn't have and taking me ages to get there, arrived exhausted and in a lot of pain. I have to work during the olympics and our managerment are cuting us no slack with getting too and from work, if we don't turn up we will be disciplined. Whilst I understand that bus drivers have a hard job so do other people. No one forced these people to be bus drivers like no one forced me to be a public service worker so please guys along with everyone else in London suck it up and get on with your jobs.

I'm sorry to read of your health problems but you do have many legal rights in relation to time off for attending these types of appointments. I don't want to get into advice 'on air'. Your Union may be able to assist or the Citizens Advice. you have rights conveyed under the 'Equality Act 2010' and some other assistance that isn't based on means

Thank you Outandabout. I have contacted the union but I may as well be whistling in the wind. They are more interested in headline grabbing fights and big stories than helping out their everyday members. But I will go to the CAB and see what advice they can offer. Thank you.

Google 'free legal advice Bexley' and see the link to a Bexley Council leaflet 'Employment problems? - Bexley Council'