Tube workers to strike for 72 hours (From News Shopper)

Tube drivers are parasites. Their pay and benefits is better than most, in fact a lot better than most. Bring on driverless tubes so we can celebrate the day they all lose their jobs.

PaulErith it is not the Tube Drivers Striking it is the maintenance Staff!!

Fair enough - I just saw the name Bob Crow and it automatically triggered a negative response! I still stand by my initial comments though.

PaulErith wrote:
Tube drivers are parasites. Their pay and benefits is better than most, in fact a lot better than most. Bring on driverless tubes so we can celebrate the day they all lose their jobs.

Paul, the nearest tube is at London Bridge! It's not exactly going to wreck our local economy if the Northern line does not run.

goldenbroomboy wrote:

PaulErith wrote: Tube drivers are parasites. Their pay and benefits is better than most, in fact a lot better than most. Bring on driverless tubes so we can celebrate the day they all lose their jobs.

Paul, the nearest tube is at London Bridge! It's not exactly going to wreck our local economy if the Northern line does not run.

The staff work on the Piccadilly, Northern and Jubilee lines - The nearest tube is at Greenwich and will effect many many people. These strikers should be happy they have a job !

the wall wrote:

goldenbroomboy wrote:

PaulErith wrote: Tube drivers are parasites. Their pay and benefits is better than most, in fact a lot better than most. Bring on driverless tubes so we can celebrate the day they all lose their jobs.

Paul, the nearest tube is at London Bridge! It's not exactly going to wreck our local economy if the Northern line does not run.

The staff work on the Piccadilly, Northern and Jubilee lines - The nearest tube is at Greenwich and will effect many many people. These strikers should be happy they have a job !

Fair enough, I had forgotten about North Greenwich. However, that station was primarily intended to serve the 02 rather than as a commuter station, as I remember it is a long bus ride from there to anywhere where a large number of people live. I would have thought that those living in the Greenwich/Charlton area would use the train, bus or the DLR rather than the tube.

What many fail to realise about tube drivers is that they are responsible for up to a 1000 people lives if a train stalls in a tunnel.It is their knowledge that gets the train fixed and running again safely.Yes the drivers need to know the trains circuits,valves and mechanical/electroni
c knowledge to be able to fix it.Get it wrong and you can kill people.In a packed train in the summer that gets stuck in a tunnel they temperature rises 1 degree every minute its not moving,passengers now start fainting as the temerature rises but you still may have to go back through the carriages to isolate a valve etc to get the train moving.Not easy on a packed commutter train with the zillion qustions you get asked on the way !

Of course you never see this written anywhere because it makes for boring reading unlike saying they are over paid ( compared to what are they overpaid?)
You will never see the truth of what the job involves because all employees are gagged from speaking to the press.

Why shouldnt the people who maintain the track get the same travel and pension benefits the other workers get if they are part of tfl ?

Something i really dont get with this country is if anyone is earning a little bit more than anyone else they are labelled as greedy etc. If anyone here reckons tube drivers are over paid then why dont they do the job and get paid the same ?

Oh because passing the exams is too hard for starters,stepping over 630 volt rails doesnt appeal does it ? Trying to stay alert in the most mind numbing job ive ever done is most likely the number one reason.
I left the job and took a pay cut to do something more interesting.
Believe me, not everyone can do that job day in day out with irregular shifts of just stting in a cab that take their toll on your body and xmas day is the only day you can guarantee off.

toomush2drink wrote:
What many fail to realise about tube drivers is that they are responsible for up to a 1000 people lives if a train stalls in a tunnel.It is their knowledge that gets the train fixed and running again safely.Yes the drivers need to know the trains circuits,valves and mechanical/electroni c knowledge to be able to fix it.Get it wrong and you can kill people.In a packed train in the summer that gets stuck in a tunnel they temperature rises 1 degree every minute its not moving,passengers now start fainting as the temerature rises but you still may have to go back through the carriages to isolate a valve etc to get the train moving.Not easy on a packed commutter train with the zillion qustions you get asked on the way ! Of course you never see this written anywhere because it makes for boring reading unlike saying they are over paid ( compared to what are they overpaid?) You will never see the truth of what the job involves because all employees are gagged from speaking to the press. Why shouldnt the people who maintain the track get the same travel and pension benefits the other workers get if they are part of tfl ? Something i really dont get with this country is if anyone is earning a little bit more than anyone else they are labelled as greedy etc. If anyone here reckons tube drivers are over paid then why dont they do the job and get paid the same ? Oh because passing the exams is too hard for starters,stepping over 630 volt rails doesnt appeal does it ? Trying to stay alert in the most mind numbing job ive ever done is most likely the number one reason. I left the job and took a pay cut to do something more interesting. Believe me, not everyone can do that job day in day out with irregular shifts of just stting in a cab that take their toll on your body and xmas day is the only day you can guarantee off.

Your argument doesn't wash I'm afraid. Yes, get it wrong and they could kill people. The same could be said for nurses but they don't get paid anywhere near what tube drivers get paid.

goldenbroomboy wrote:

PaulErith wrote: Tube drivers are parasites. Their pay and benefits is better than most, in fact a lot better than most. Bring on driverless tubes so we can celebrate the day they all lose their jobs.

Paul, the nearest tube is at London Bridge! It's not exactly going to wreck our local economy if the Northern line does not run.

I'm not talking about our local economy or whether it affects me personally. I'm passing general comment on the fact that Bob Crow is a militant, greedy man.

toomush2drink wrote:
What many fail to realise about tube drivers is that they are responsible for up to a 1000 people lives if a train stalls in a tunnel.It is their knowledge that gets the train fixed and running again safely.Yes the drivers need to know the trains circuits,valves and mechanical/electroni c knowledge to be able to fix it.Get it wrong and you can kill people.In a packed train in the summer that gets stuck in a tunnel they temperature rises 1 degree every minute its not moving,passengers now start fainting as the temerature rises but you still may have to go back through the carriages to isolate a valve etc to get the train moving.Not easy on a packed commutter train with the zillion qustions you get asked on the way ! Of course you never see this written anywhere because it makes for boring reading unlike saying they are over paid ( compared to what are they overpaid?) You will never see the truth of what the job involves because all employees are gagged from speaking to the press. Why shouldnt the people who maintain the track get the same travel and pension benefits the other workers get if they are part of tfl ? Something i really dont get with this country is if anyone is earning a little bit more than anyone else they are labelled as greedy etc. If anyone here reckons tube drivers are over paid then why dont they do the job and get paid the same ? Oh because passing the exams is too hard for starters,stepping over 630 volt rails doesnt appeal does it ? Trying to stay alert in the most mind numbing job ive ever done is most likely the number one reason. I left the job and took a pay cut to do something more interesting. Believe me, not everyone can do that job day in day out with irregular shifts of just stting in a cab that take their toll on your body and xmas day is the only day you can guarantee off.

...and another thing. It's nothing to do with criticising people that earn good money. I earn more than tube drivers, so there's no jealousy there or anything like that. My point is that I earn good money and wouldn't dream of striking or asking for triple time or wanting a bonus to my job during the olympics. I appreciate that I earn way above average wage. I think Bob Crow is greedy because tube drivers earn well and yet he still wants more!

Paulerith what you read in the papers about the bonus being the reason to strike isnt the truth.They are basically trying to change their framework agreement to their working conditions which management agreed to.

So how would you feel if your employer used the olympics as a way of changing your pre agreed working hours and conditions with the promise of a bonus for some employees but not all ?

You stated tube drivers are parasites then back track saying its now bob crow being greedy.Why not say that in the first place, im in total agreement ?

On this issue though aslef are also in disagreement which is rare as all the strikes you refer to in the last few years have all been by the rmt and not aslef.Aslef is the drivers union, the rmt membership is made up by a smaller proportion of drivers and mainly station and track staff

As for the nurses comparision it just doesnt wash.A nurse doesnt have the capibility to kill a lot of people in one go, a tube driver can.Would you put YOUR life at risk stepping over 630 volt rails ? Do nurses take these risks as you seem to like the comparison in jobs ?

My sis in law is a nurse and gets paid just as much as a tube driver if not more so at least get your facts right if you want to make that comparison.On a bank shift she can earn £300 in a day.

Oh and the day they bring in driverless trains will be the day you sign off for a disaster.Drivers get paid because they have the technical knowledge to get the train going again, who is going to do that with no driver on it in a deep level tunnel ?

Ranting is one thing but actually having a decent arguement based on facts is another.
You made a comment that tube drivers are parasites when in fact it is the maintenance worked who are striking.

If they are parasites and you freely admit you earn more, then tell us what it is that you do that pays so well so everyone can pass judgment on how you earn your wages.

You say they earn well so lets compare it with what you do,seems fair enough...

Happy to reconsider my views if the media are not telling the truth. I'd agree that fundamental changes to terms and conditions should not be forced in and they have the right to fight against these.
However, I have also read that there are some fairly substantial bonuses and overtime payments being negotiated for working during the Olympics. Because the union has the power, it can get these agreed. I don't see why the tube drivers should get these extra payments.

What I do for a living or whether people would feel I deserve my wage is not really the issue. I've not said that the tube drivers earn too much or don't do a responsible job. My gripe is the way they have a union that threatens to strike all the time and wants unreasonable bonus payments or increases. I didn't expect a pay increase or bonus this year because of the economic climate. I didn't get one and that's totally fine.

To address the point about nurses salaries. I can't really agree. I believe that a tube driver's basic pay is £46,000. Maybe it's higher now? Below are the published figures for nurses wages;

Grade A (Age 18+)Auxiliary & Assistants
From £10,050 to £12,615
Grade B
Auxiliary & Assistants
From £11,825 to £13,920
Grade C Enrolled & Auxiliary
From £13,465 to £16,525
Grade D Newly Qualified Nurses
From £16,525 to £18,240
Grade E Experienced Staff Nurse (Midwives normally start at this grade)
From £17,660 to £21,325
Grade F Senior Nurse
From £19,585 to £24,455
Grade G Sister/Charge Nurse (Health Visitors normally start at this grade)
From £23,110 to £27,190
Grade H
Nurse Specialist
From £25,815 to £30,005
Grade H
Modern Matron
From £25,815 to £30,960
Grade I
Nurse Specialist
From £28,590 to £32,860
Grade I
Modern Matron
From £28,590 to £33,820

Maybe through some long shifts and overtime, they can get £300 a day as you said, but I don't think it's remotely true to say they earn as much as tube drivers.

Nice dodge of the important question, you feel its ok to judge tube drivers as parasites and cant wait for the lot of them to be sacked.

You claim they earn more than most yet openly admit you earn more than a tube driver but dont have the balls to let others judge what you do and if they think you are worth the pay you get by telling us what it is you do.

Its easy to sit behind a keyboard and hide when challenged and avoid the questions.

You talk about "the union" but as i mentioned before (please pay attention) most strike in the last few years has been by members of the rmt whose membership is made up mainly off non tube driving staff just like the current situation.

Aslef is the drivers union and all of its members are drivers but they are not threatening strike action but are in disagreement with the proposed changes to working conditions.

The rmt strikers are maintenance staff not tube driving parasites.

Like i asked previously, would you risk stepping over live rails carrying 630 volts ?
You get paid more than they do without taking that risk ( i can only assume as you wont tell us what you do for more money) so perhaps the greedy "parasite" is closer to home ?

If you want to call anyone a "parasite" then it's Bob Crow. How much is he on a year ?

2009, Bob Crow's basic salary at RMT was £94,747; a 12% increase from the previous year. His entire pay package with bonuses and pensions was £133,138; on top of this he claimed £9,989 in expenses and £2,376 in travel costs.

Lets us not forget behaving like a yob at a football match. Also
Crow and his union cronies are still banned from a gastropub near the RMT’s head office. Somers Town Coffee House following a lunchtime drinking session a few years ago when customers and staff were insulted and threatened.

He describes himself as a ‘communist-stroke-
socialist’. But earns £100,000+ a year.

What is that saying.......All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

Stepping over live rails carrying 630 volts.....No problem, you know it live so don't on it.

I see your live rail and raise you defusing IEDs and getting shot at.

Totally agree with your comments the wall,bob crow is a nasty,self obsessed,greedy individual.

Anyone in the forces gets my respect full stop.

toomush2drink wrote:
Totally agree with your comments the wall,bob crow is a nasty,self obsessed,greedy individual.

Anyone in the forces gets my respect full stop.

No worries. You put forward a very good debate.

I'll have to agree with you, and I'm willing to admit my comments should be aimed at Crow himself as opposed to the wider community of tube workers. Unfortunately, when a union has a leader like him, the workers that belong to it tend to get tarred with the same brush.

In terms of my line of work, it's not a matter of dodging the question. I just feel it isn't at all relevant. What I do know is that my last 3 year's pay rises have been 0%, 0.25% and 0.5% which in line with the economic situation is to be expected, but obviously means that my 'real' wage has fallen. (i.e. taking inflation into account). Hence, to repeat, I'm not saying tube drivers get paid too much, just simply that they should be grateful to have a job that pays well in the current climate, and certainly shouldn't be asking for more.

Ok fair play, but just because the economy isnt too good doesnt mean people dont have a right to negotiate a pay rise or should expect no pay rise.

The rpi is what is pushing their wages up as that is what they base their pay deal on.

I hear what you are saying that many are lucky to get any sort of payrise so it does gets the publics back up when tube workers are in the media understandably.
The trouble is the media hardly ever tell the full true story but prefer to base a story around a very small part of a fact and let people believe something else.

I reckon the job i do now (ticket inspector) is more dangerous than a tube drivers job yet i get paid less than them and still work for tfl.I knew what i was getting into though and its a whole lot better than going out of my mind on the front of a train even though i deal with some right nutters on a daily basis.
For example only yesterday im penalty faring some guy and hes going on about how hes not going back to prison so i better not send him to court.I thought he was going to carve up my colleague and I,oh the joys of london.

goldenbroomboy wrote:

the wall wrote:

goldenbroomboy wrote:

PaulErith wrote: Tube drivers are parasites. Their pay and benefits is better than most, in fact a lot better than most. Bring on driverless tubes so we can celebrate the day they all lose their jobs.

Paul, the nearest tube is at London Bridge! It's not exactly going to wreck our local economy if the Northern line does not run.

The staff work on the Piccadilly, Northern and Jubilee lines - The nearest tube is at Greenwich and will effect many many people. These strikers should be happy they have a job !

Fair enough, I had forgotten about North Greenwich. However, that station was primarily intended to serve the 02 rather than as a commuter station, as I remember it is a long bus ride from there to anywhere where a large number of people live. I would have thought that those living in the Greenwich/Charlton area would use the train, bus or the DLR rather than the tube.

I used to Live in Greenwich and work in Cheam. I had to either go DLR > Northern line > bus or DLR > Jubilee line >bus.

Strikes like this are horrendous for those of us who depend on the service.

Also, I know I get paid less than these people, and I don't have a work pension or get free travel either!

Bob Crowe is just another champagne socialist union leader from a long line of them.

You really could train an ape to drive a tube train.

toomush2drink wrote:
Ok fair play, but just because the economy isnt too good doesnt mean people dont have a right to negotiate a pay rise or should expect no pay rise. The rpi is what is pushing their wages up as that is what they base their pay deal on. I hear what you are saying that many are lucky to get any sort of payrise so it does gets the publics back up when tube workers are in the media understandably. The trouble is the media hardly ever tell the full true story but prefer to base a story around a very small part of a fact and let people believe something else. I reckon the job i do now (ticket inspector) is more dangerous than a tube drivers job yet i get paid less than them and still work for tfl.I knew what i was getting into though and its a whole lot better than going out of my mind on the front of a train even though i deal with some right nutters on a daily basis. For example only yesterday im penalty faring some guy and hes going on about how hes not going back to prison so i better not send him to court.I thought he was going to carve up my colleague and I,oh the joys of london.

I'd agree with you. I wouldn't like to challenge people on a train who haven't bought a ticket. By definition, those who blatantly travel without a ticket are breaking the law - hence there's going to be a higher proportion of them that could get nasty. Don't envy you.

The Gypo Returns ! wrote:
Bob Crowe is just another champagne socialist union leader from a long line of them.

You really could train an ape to drive a tube train.

Very true but you couldnt train them to fix it when it breaks down in a tunnel.
A lot of people fail even the first selection test let alone get through the exams.