BECKENHAM: Bloggers won't stop school improving

Left to right: Headteacher Brian Lloyd, Arjun Jethwa, Omar Taki, Luke Alland, assistant headteacher Richard Johnson

Kelsey Park Sports College

Headteacher Brian Lloyd

Students at Kelsey Park Sports College receive awards at a presentation evening earlier this month

First published in News

Kelsey Park Sports College has been on the receiving end of some harsh criticism in recent weeks. Reporter DAVID MILLS meets students and staff at the school.

THE headteacher of Kelsey Park Sports College barely gets out of his office these days.

Brian Lloyd says the furore created by campaign group Harris Into Beckenham, which wants the school to become part of the Harris Federation of Academies, has “consumed us all”.

Harris runs nine academies across south London, many of which have been judged by Ofsted to be outstanding.

News Shopper: BECKENHAM: Bloggers won't stop school improving

Mr Lloyd says negative remarks about Kelsey have had “a very unsettling effect” on staff and pupils.

He said: “If you hear it often enough that you're rubbish, then you begin to believe it.

“You start to doubt your own ability.”

Comments made about Kelsey on the BeckenhamTown.us blog have been as cutting as they have vitriolic.

One blogger said: “The school, as long as I can remember, has always had a bad name” while another wrote: “If I had to fill out a secondary school application today, the one school I would not be including is Kelsey Park.”

Kelsey was issued with an improvement notice by Ofsted following an inspection last year which gave the school the lowest possible rating of 4 - meaning inadequate.

The report came on the back of a poor set of results where only 28 per cent of GCSE students achieved five A* to C grades including English and Maths.

News Shopper: Left to right: Headteacher Brian Lloyd, Arjun Jethwa, Omar Taki, Luke Alland, assistant headteacher Richard Johnson

Since then however, the school in Manor Way, Beckenham has bounced back, with results increasing to 46 per cent - the school’s best ever - placing it in the top 10 per cent of the most improved schools nationally.

Prior to these results, an Ofsted monitoring visit in June also said the school was making satisfactory progress.

But as one blogger wrote, ‘mud sticks’, with one person writing: “Lets face it nobody wants a school in a category of failure on their doorstep”.

However as Mr Lloyd has previously pointed out, none of the campaigners have children who actually attend Kelsey nor have they even visited the school.

He said: “They have every right to voice their opinion.

“But I think the way they have gone about it is not right in the fact they have chosen to rubbish and belittle Kelsey Park in the way they have.”

Kelsey has now set itself a target of 50 per cent achieving five A* to C grades including English and Maths.

Mr Lloyd said: “We have put in a rigorous tracking and mentoring programme.

“It's about making sure the kids have everything they need.

“The authority has really supported us to the hilt.”

News Shopper: From left to right: Headteacher, Brian Lloyd, with some of the student, Bromley Council's director of children & young people services Gillian Pearson, and former pupil Phil Beadle.

THE STUDENTS

Arjun Jethwa, aged 15, said: “The school has really helped me make new friends from other year groups through its mentoring scheme.

“For exams we do a lot of revising and go through past papers. All the resources are there.”

Luke Alland, aged 15, said: “There’s a lot of emphasis on support. The school has given me everything I’ve wanted.”

Omar Taki, aged 15, said: “I find lessons really enjoyable. One day in science we’ll do a practical, the next we’ll spend writing or doing group work.”

Comments (32)

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4:13pm Wed 27 Oct 10

Eagles_Man says...

Sorry to be pedantic, but the BeckenhamTown site is a discussion forum, not a blog. Those slagging off Kelsey are therefore simply contributors rather than bloggers.
.
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I'll get me coat.
Sorry to be pedantic, but the BeckenhamTown site is a discussion forum, not a blog. Those slagging off Kelsey are therefore simply contributors rather than bloggers. . . I'll get me coat. Eagles_Man
  • Score: 0

4:32pm Wed 27 Oct 10

screw_your_loaf says...

There have been some very negative comments made about KPSC over the years, and there is currently a witch hunt from some local residents, of whom have had very little interest in the school up to this point.
I have a lad at KPSC who is loving it and doing very well indeed, I have listerned to the concerns of those that have voiced them, and have attended the public meetings, i have also researched about academies, and have been shocked with what i have read. it would appear that those leading the campaigne against KPSC are indeed intelligent people that are very energetic and ethusiastic about having successful schools within bromley, so i will lay down a challenge to them, put your efforts into helping the pupils, teachers and parents of KPSC to reach the height that they are aiming for, instead of bad mouthing them and trying to have an academy school brought into the borough, at the exspence of other local schools.
There have been some very negative comments made about KPSC over the years, and there is currently a witch hunt from some local residents, of whom have had very little interest in the school up to this point. I have a lad at KPSC who is loving it and doing very well indeed, I have listerned to the concerns of those that have voiced them, and have attended the public meetings, i have also researched about academies, and have been shocked with what i have read. it would appear that those leading the campaigne against KPSC are indeed intelligent people that are very energetic and ethusiastic about having successful schools within bromley, so i will lay down a challenge to them, put your efforts into helping the pupils, teachers and parents of KPSC to reach the height that they are aiming for, instead of bad mouthing them and trying to have an academy school brought into the borough, at the exspence of other local schools. screw_your_loaf
  • Score: 0

4:37pm Wed 27 Oct 10

Erastus says...

Eagles_Man wrote:
Sorry to be pedantic, but the BeckenhamTown site is a discussion forum, not a blog. Those slagging off Kelsey are therefore simply contributors rather than bloggers. . . I'll get me coat.
I completely agree.
[quote][p][bold]Eagles_Man[/bold] wrote: Sorry to be pedantic, but the BeckenhamTown site is a discussion forum, not a blog. Those slagging off Kelsey are therefore simply contributors rather than bloggers. . . I'll get me coat.[/p][/quote]I completely agree. Erastus
  • Score: 0

6:33pm Wed 27 Oct 10

Middle Class Parent says...

No one is "slagging off Kelsey" It suits Gillian Pearson to put this out.
Everyone from The Guardian to The Spectator and everyone in between has slated Bromley Council this week.
We have all blogged about Bromley Council's disgraceful behaviour.We wanted to improve the school for all, Harris would do that. That will not be happening with Ms Pearson and Cllr Noad clinging to their empire, thats why Harris are opening a free school in 2012 in Beckenham,Cllr Noad and Ms Pearson cannot stop this.
Its a shame the kids at Kelsey will not benefit from this.
Middle Class
No one is "slagging off Kelsey" It suits Gillian Pearson to put this out. Everyone from The Guardian to The Spectator and everyone in between has slated Bromley Council this week. We have all blogged about Bromley Council's disgraceful behaviour.We wanted to improve the school for all, Harris would do that. That will not be happening with Ms Pearson and Cllr Noad clinging to their empire, thats why Harris are opening a free school in 2012 in Beckenham,Cllr Noad and Ms Pearson cannot stop this. Its a shame the kids at Kelsey will not benefit from this. Middle Class Middle Class Parent
  • Score: 0

7:30pm Wed 27 Oct 10

Cllr Colin Smith says...

Middle Class

What part of 'the decision lies in the hands of the Governors of Kelsey Park rather than Bromley Council' is so confusing to the campaign group please?

You collectively seem determined to ignore that simple fact at every turn but it isn't going to change.

It doesn't matter whether Michael Gove, Lord Harris, The Guardian or anyone else individually or collectively wish or decree otherwise, (unless the law changes) that is the simple fact of the matter.

Regarding the Guardian, if you don't already know anyway, which I suspect you probably do, they know this as well but are simply trying to cause political difficulties between the Coalition Government and a Conservative Council.

They will fail miserably.

Other pro Harris supporters of varying seniority have used other media organs for their own purposes.

Reasonable campaigning strategy perhaps if you want to consider things in that light, but it also fails to address the facts of the matter

The Kelsey Park Governors have issued their consultation and nothing is going to change at the very earliest until the outcome of that is known.

Significant less negativity towards Kelsey Park from certain quarters would be very much appreciated by all those involved at the school doing their best under testing circumstances in the meanwhile.
Middle Class What part of 'the decision lies in the hands of the Governors of Kelsey Park rather than Bromley Council' is so confusing to the campaign group please? You collectively seem determined to ignore that simple fact at every turn but it isn't going to change. It doesn't matter whether Michael Gove, Lord Harris, The Guardian or anyone else individually or collectively wish or decree otherwise, (unless the law changes) that is the simple fact of the matter. Regarding the Guardian, if you don't already know anyway, which I suspect you probably do, they know this as well but are simply trying to cause political difficulties between the Coalition Government and a Conservative Council. They will fail miserably. Other pro Harris supporters of varying seniority have used other media organs for their own purposes. Reasonable campaigning strategy perhaps if you want to consider things in that light, but it also fails to address the facts of the matter The Kelsey Park Governors have issued their consultation and nothing is going to change at the very earliest until the outcome of that is known. Significant less negativity towards Kelsey Park from certain quarters would be very much appreciated by all those involved at the school doing their best under testing circumstances in the meanwhile. Cllr Colin Smith
  • Score: 0

7:45pm Wed 27 Oct 10

Middle Class Parent says...

Cllr Smith,
The consultation does not allow for an independant Academy such as Harris, Cllr Noad insists on a partner.Or has Cllr Noad withdrawn the statement he made to this newspaper last week?

"Notice to Improve" is a category that can convert to Academy status, right now. Foundation schools in neighbouring CONSERVATIVE controlled Croydon converted even when the Governors were opposed, the CONSERVATIVE Council pushed them through.
Any comment on your own Local Conservative Web Site this week? Quote "Cllr Noad clinging to power by his finger tips?" Or do they have another agenda as well?
How many of these Conservative Councillors criticising us sent their kids to Kelsey Park?
How many months of blogs were trawled through to find these quotes today?
The Free School is going ahead, it is due to open in Beckenham Sep 2012,as Fraser Nelson says today in the Spectator Free Schools are good for all schools.
Middle Class
Cllr Smith, The consultation does not allow for an independant Academy such as Harris, Cllr Noad insists on a partner.Or has Cllr Noad withdrawn the statement he made to this newspaper last week? "Notice to Improve" is a category that can convert to Academy status, right now. Foundation schools in neighbouring CONSERVATIVE controlled Croydon converted even when the Governors were opposed, the CONSERVATIVE Council pushed them through. Any comment on your own Local Conservative Web Site this week? Quote "Cllr Noad clinging to power by his finger tips?" Or do they have another agenda as well? How many of these Conservative Councillors criticising us sent their kids to Kelsey Park? How many months of blogs were trawled through to find these quotes today? The Free School is going ahead, it is due to open in Beckenham Sep 2012,as Fraser Nelson says today in the Spectator Free Schools are good for all schools. Middle Class Middle Class Parent
  • Score: 0

8:16pm Wed 27 Oct 10

kasey.w says...

Hmmm.....interesting comments...Questions for Cllr Smith, Do you live in the Beckenham school catchment area? Would you send your child to KPSC or HAYES!!!!? How many students that started at KPSC September 2010 came from the local Beckenham Primary schools.
How many parents actually put KPSC on thier Common Application Form last year?
As a parent that viewed KPSC last year and formed my own opinions, not good I have to say! something needs to be done to make this school more appealing to our children and us as parents.
Reading Brian Lloyds comments in the above article I'm glad that he is begining to believe the comments made, because maybe now He will start to do something positive about this school.
He and His teaching staff let this school down big time at last years open evening. It was as much as they could do to speak to the people viewing the school, adults and children alike, if they can't be bothered why should the students feel any different.
I'm not sure that Harris will be the right solution for KPSC because I don't know enough about them but I was impressed with the 2 Harris schools that I viewed.
All I do know is that as KPSC stands at the moment it needs alot more than 1 improved year GSE results to make this school a school that the parents of Beckenham WANT to send thier children to.
Speak to the parents not the Cllr's. We are not interested in thier political wrangles just a good education for our children.
Hmmm.....interesting comments...Questions for Cllr Smith, Do you live in the Beckenham school catchment area? Would you send your child to KPSC or HAYES!!!!? How many students that started at KPSC September 2010 came from the local Beckenham Primary schools. How many parents actually put KPSC on thier Common Application Form last year? As a parent that viewed KPSC last year and formed my own opinions, not good I have to say! something needs to be done to make this school more appealing to our children and us as parents. Reading Brian Lloyds comments in the above article I'm glad that he is begining to believe the comments made, because maybe now He will start to do something positive about this school. He and His teaching staff let this school down big time at last years open evening. It was as much as they could do to speak to the people viewing the school, adults and children alike, if they can't be bothered why should the students feel any different. I'm not sure that Harris will be the right solution for KPSC because I don't know enough about them but I was impressed with the 2 Harris schools that I viewed. All I do know is that as KPSC stands at the moment it needs alot more than 1 improved year GSE results to make this school a school that the parents of Beckenham WANT to send thier children to. Speak to the parents not the Cllr's. We are not interested in thier political wrangles just a good education for our children. kasey.w
  • Score: 0

10:28pm Wed 27 Oct 10

BeckenhamTown.us says...

Hello NewsShopper,

It is I an independent community website where people use a discussion forum there amongst many other fine areas to discuss and debate any issues they care to. We even have a blog area too, but not used for the above headline.

It was set up for ordinary residents to have a voice over whatever issues mattered to them, free of editorial touches and political bias. When the council didn't give local residents in the Clock House area of Beckenham much detail of what and how CPZs would be implemented, local residents were able to engage with each other and local councillors and they had a voice, they made an impact, they felt empowered.

The problem with the above story is that it's only from one side, which is a great shame as I believe a story like this should be reported fairly or it may add fuel to a fire no one wants. Inflammatory headlines are not welcome. That's papers for you though I susppose and that's why I prefer locals news and discussions involving local parents, teachers and councillors who are more enlightening over an issue like this on an open to all website.

Cllr Smith of Hayes is a member of www.beckenhamtown.us but hasn't joined the debate there, but I guess a newspaper that's viewed in Hayes is good to have your name in once in a while. Cllt Smith nor any other conservative councillor and everyone one of them has been invited, even those who have parents in the catchment area have said one word on the discussion forum. Cllr Getgood, Labour, as a Kelsey governor has been very forthcoming and Cllr Adams, LibDem has been a positive balanced and knowledgeable contributor. Cllr Smith, these councillors took the time to even make speaches and join the debate at the full council meeting on Monday where as so many Conservatives, including you sat in silence and voted on block, not even taking in the petitioners speeches one of whom was a Kelsey student's mother.

I'd like to extend a friendly invite to you, and everyone else to put your words in the only open forum on this issue and engage. There are lots of very valid questions the council could if it choose to answer, but does not. As someone above said stop playing politics, this is about childrens' lives, their future lives and families.

Please do use the site it's been viewed by about 7000 people this month.

The Kelsey discussion is at http://www.beckenham
town.us/forum/topics
/new-coed-harris-aca
demy-on

Oh and just in case this is edited the same comment I'll post on my site where nothing will be edited.
Hello NewsShopper, It is I an independent community website where people use a discussion forum there amongst many other fine areas to discuss and debate any issues they care to. We even have a blog area too, but not used for the above headline. It was set up for ordinary residents to have a voice over whatever issues mattered to them, free of editorial touches and political bias. When the council didn't give local residents in the Clock House area of Beckenham much detail of what and how CPZs would be implemented, local residents were able to engage with each other and local councillors and they had a voice, they made an impact, they felt empowered. The problem with the above story is that it's only from one side, which is a great shame as I believe a story like this should be reported fairly or it may add fuel to a fire no one wants. Inflammatory headlines are not welcome. That's papers for you though I susppose and that's why I prefer locals news and discussions involving local parents, teachers and councillors who are more enlightening over an issue like this on an open to all website. Cllr Smith of Hayes is a member of www.beckenhamtown.us but hasn't joined the debate there, but I guess a newspaper that's viewed in Hayes is good to have your name in once in a while. Cllt Smith nor any other conservative councillor and everyone one of them has been invited, even those who have parents in the catchment area have said one word on the discussion forum. Cllr Getgood, Labour, as a Kelsey governor has been very forthcoming and Cllr Adams, LibDem has been a positive balanced and knowledgeable contributor. Cllr Smith, these councillors took the time to even make speaches and join the debate at the full council meeting on Monday where as so many Conservatives, including you sat in silence and voted on block, not even taking in the petitioners speeches one of whom was a Kelsey student's mother. I'd like to extend a friendly invite to you, and everyone else to put your words in the only open forum on this issue and engage. There are lots of very valid questions the council could if it choose to answer, but does not. As someone above said stop playing politics, this is about childrens' lives, their future lives and families. Please do use the site it's been viewed by about 7000 people this month. The Kelsey discussion is at http://www.beckenham town.us/forum/topics /new-coed-harris-aca demy-on Oh and just in case this is edited the same comment I'll post on my site where nothing will be edited. BeckenhamTown.us
  • Score: 0

9:00am Thu 28 Oct 10

Cllr Colin Smith says...

Middle Class,

My final posting on the subject, happy to leave you with the last word.

The attached string sets straight the Council's position to date on related matters :

http://www.thecareta
kers.net/CMS/index.p
hp?option=com_conten
t&task=view&id=13519
&Itemid=1

If anyone tells you that the Council is against Acadamies in general, Lord Harris in particular or Free schools, you may care to ask them where they are getting their information from and why they are saying so. They will be wrong.

Returning to my previous point that it doesn't matter what you, I, Frazer Nelson, Uncle Tom Cobbleigh or anyone else thinks about the situation,
the fact of the matter is the under the current 'rules', the INDEPENDENT Board of Governors (there are 2 LEA appointed Governors on the Board, 1 Conservative, 1 Labour) make the decision.

I'm not immediately clear why, or on what grounds, you would like to see the Council engineer a reason to replace a Board that has transformed Kelsey into one of the best improving schools in the Country over the course of the last 18 months, or why they incur your displeasure given they have already responded pro-actively to the three month old HiB campaign by going out to consultation over the schools future.

Can you not see or recognise that there might be better options out there for ALL the local schools and that all avenues need to be explored to ensure the correct decision is made in the interests of all Beckenham children ?

Kasey W

I'm broadly encouraged by your comments and your recogntion that Brian Lloyd is doing a good job in turning the school around.

I think the only point I would respectfully disagree on is where you say he "will start".

Last year's exam results surely go some way, if not definitively, to demonstrate the improvements are well underway already ?

Jon,

Another day, another plug for your website and an irrelevant pop at me for living in Hayes.

Are people from Hayes excluded from having an opinion in your world?

Regarding the Council meeting, the much maligned and unfairly abused Cllr Noad spoke for the Conservative Group. There's precious point another 50 or so of us springing up and parrotting the same thing.

As to "playing politics" why do you suppose that the Leaders of the Conservative, Liberal Democrat and Labour Groups all voted against progressing the petition at Monday's meeting?

Are they all "playing politics" ?

Do none of them have the best interests of Bromley's kids at heart?

Is it possible, just possible, that they know a little bit more about the intricacies of the subject matter and are acutely aware of how a premature move to academy status (if it were possible to do so) could de-stabalise the rest of North Beckenham's education fraternity ?

In summary, if anyone tells you that Bromley Council is against either acadamies, or free schools, please tell them they are (at best) misinformed.

That's me done on this topic, please refer to the Council website for any further info or dates of the next meetings etc...
Middle Class, My final posting on the subject, happy to leave you with the last word. The attached string sets straight the Council's position to date on related matters : http://www.thecareta kers.net/CMS/index.p hp?option=com_conten t&task=view&id=13519 &Itemid=1 If anyone tells you that the Council is against Acadamies in general, Lord Harris in particular or Free schools, you may care to ask them where they are getting their information from and why they are saying so. They will be wrong. Returning to my previous point that it doesn't matter what you, I, Frazer Nelson, Uncle Tom Cobbleigh or anyone else thinks about the situation, the fact of the matter is the under the current 'rules', the INDEPENDENT Board of Governors (there are 2 LEA appointed Governors on the Board, 1 Conservative, 1 Labour) make the decision. I'm not immediately clear why, or on what grounds, you would like to see the Council engineer a reason to replace a Board that has transformed Kelsey into one of the best improving schools in the Country over the course of the last 18 months, or why they incur your displeasure given they have already responded pro-actively to the three month old HiB campaign by going out to consultation over the schools future. Can you not see or recognise that there might be better options out there for ALL the local schools and that all avenues need to be explored to ensure the correct decision is made in the interests of all Beckenham children ? Kasey W I'm broadly encouraged by your comments and your recogntion that Brian Lloyd is doing a good job in turning the school around. I think the only point I would respectfully disagree on is where you say he "will start". Last year's exam results surely go some way, if not definitively, to demonstrate the improvements are well underway already ? Jon, Another day, another plug for your website and an irrelevant pop at me for living in Hayes. Are people from Hayes excluded from having an opinion in your world? Regarding the Council meeting, the much maligned and unfairly abused Cllr Noad spoke for the Conservative Group. There's precious point another 50 or so of us springing up and parrotting the same thing. As to "playing politics" why do you suppose that the Leaders of the Conservative, Liberal Democrat and Labour Groups all voted against progressing the petition at Monday's meeting? Are they all "playing politics" ? Do none of them have the best interests of Bromley's kids at heart? Is it possible, just possible, that they know a little bit more about the intricacies of the subject matter and are acutely aware of how a premature move to academy status (if it were possible to do so) could de-stabalise the rest of North Beckenham's education fraternity ? In summary, if anyone tells you that Bromley Council is against either acadamies, or free schools, please tell them they are (at best) misinformed. That's me done on this topic, please refer to the Council website for any further info or dates of the next meetings etc... Cllr Colin Smith
  • Score: 0

9:51am Thu 28 Oct 10

Cllr. Neil Reddin says...

As my colleague Cllr. Smith has said, it is for the governors ultimately to decide which path they wish the school to take. It’s that simple. Everything else is a sideshow frankly; discussing who said what to whom, what the council may or may not have done, the unnecessary antagonism shown by some members of the HiB campaign, the caricaturing of Cllr. Noad and Mrs Pearson, blowing this whole thing up as a Tory council rebelling against a Tory(-led) government, or asking why every one of the 53 Conservative councillors didn’t get up and speak on Monday …

It may be that Lord Harris ends up being chosen as the best option for Kelsey, but how do the governors know he’s the best option until the other potential suitors have also been considered? What is so unreasonable about that?

I’m pleased that Brian Lloyd, the very able headmaster of Kelsey, has been given a chance to put his side of the story at last … now let’s wait and see what views the consultation (which does mention the possibility of a Harris academy) brings back.

Cllr. Neil Reddin
Hayes & Coney Hall Ward
Cabinet Member for Resources
As my colleague Cllr. Smith has said, it is for the governors ultimately to decide which path they wish the school to take. It’s that simple. Everything else is a sideshow frankly; discussing who said what to whom, what the council may or may not have done, the unnecessary antagonism shown by some members of the HiB campaign, the caricaturing of Cllr. Noad and Mrs Pearson, blowing this whole thing up as a Tory council rebelling against a Tory(-led) government, or asking why every one of the 53 Conservative councillors didn’t get up and speak on Monday … It may be that Lord Harris ends up being chosen as the best option for Kelsey, but how do the governors know he’s the best option until the other potential suitors have also been considered? What is so unreasonable about that? I’m pleased that Brian Lloyd, the very able headmaster of Kelsey, has been given a chance to put his side of the story at last … now let’s wait and see what views the consultation (which does mention the possibility of a Harris academy) brings back. Cllr. Neil Reddin Hayes & Coney Hall Ward Cabinet Member for Resources Cllr. Neil Reddin
  • Score: 0

10:09am Thu 28 Oct 10

Middle Class Parent says...

Cllrs Smith and Reddin,

I will try again. Is Cllr Noad going to withdraw the statement he gave to this paper last week?

Harris will not be a partner, they are an Independant Academy Providor. There is no point anyone who wants an Independant Academy in Beckenham participating in the "consultation"

Have you seen the emails on Jon's site which Ed Chapman, a high ranking DFE official released? Are you seriousley saying the Sponsor bid which took place earlier this year - led by Cllr Noad and Ms Gillian Pearson - funny how it's now nothing to do with them now - was handled welll?

"Bromley urgently sought approval...."

Finally why shouldn't Jon "plug" his website?

Bromley Council cannot edit what goes on there.

Middle Class
Cllrs Smith and Reddin, I will try again. Is Cllr Noad going to withdraw the statement he gave to this paper last week? Harris will not be a partner, they are an Independant Academy Providor. There is no point anyone who wants an Independant Academy in Beckenham participating in the "consultation" Have you seen the emails on Jon's site which Ed Chapman, a high ranking DFE official released? Are you seriousley saying the Sponsor bid which took place earlier this year - led by Cllr Noad and Ms Gillian Pearson - funny how it's now nothing to do with them now - was handled welll? "Bromley urgently sought approval...." Finally why shouldn't Jon "plug" his website? Bromley Council cannot edit what goes on there. Middle Class Middle Class Parent
  • Score: 0

11:30am Thu 28 Oct 10

Desperate Parent says...

Cllr Reddin

How can Brian Lloyd, nice man that he is be described as "very able"? He was headteacher when the school failed its Ofsted report. What kind of track record is that -it certainly does not merit being called very able.

This comment that you have made and the attitude which it reveals is the core of our problem, it highlights your complacency and the low expectations of your council and it shows exactly why the media is correct to attack Bromley and rightly depict Bromley council as being against the crucial reforms proposed by the Government.
A proper council and certainly one in tune with this Government would never call a headteacher failed by Ofsted as very able.

After all if you really were pro-Academy and Free School as you claim then your council would not have insisted on joint sponsorship with the council (ie the wonderful body which has overseen 20 years of failure and mediocre performance at Kesley Park. This is clear evidence that Bromley Conservative does not support not even understand the policy of its own Government.

As Fiona Murphy never tires of pointing out -other Councils have moved to tackle underperformance and been able to convert underachieving Foundation schools. Why is Bromley so impotent? Here we have a Governing Body which has clearly failed (see the Ofsted report) and Bromley claim to have put the decision in the hands of failed Governors. Everybody knows that the council is hiding behind this tactic.

Councillors comments about the school confirm the endemic complacency inherent in Bromley and prove that you really are the enemy within the Conservative party and people like you need to be exposed and rooted out so that the rest of us can get the kind education our children really deserve -not the shambles you think is good enough.

You akk want to maintain the status quo, you all want to keep things wonderful for the established and successful schools -the wards that you are councillors for and none of you care at all about this school or what is best for it.
Cllr Reddin How can Brian Lloyd, nice man that he is be described as "very able"? He was headteacher when the school failed its Ofsted report. What kind of track record is that -it certainly does not merit being called very able. This comment that you have made and the attitude which it reveals is the core of our problem, it highlights your complacency and the low expectations of your council and it shows exactly why the media is correct to attack Bromley and rightly depict Bromley council as being against the crucial reforms proposed by the Government. A proper council and certainly one in tune with this Government would never call a headteacher failed by Ofsted as very able. After all if you really were pro-Academy and Free School as you claim then your council would not have insisted on joint sponsorship with the council (ie the wonderful body which has overseen 20 years of failure and mediocre performance at Kesley Park. This is clear evidence that Bromley Conservative does not support not even understand the policy of its own Government. As Fiona Murphy never tires of pointing out -other Councils have moved to tackle underperformance and been able to convert underachieving Foundation schools. Why is Bromley so impotent? Here we have a Governing Body which has clearly failed (see the Ofsted report) and Bromley claim to have put the decision in the hands of failed Governors. Everybody knows that the council is hiding behind this tactic. Councillors comments about the school confirm the endemic complacency inherent in Bromley and prove that you really are the enemy within the Conservative party and people like you need to be exposed and rooted out so that the rest of us can get the kind education our children really deserve -not the shambles you think is good enough. You akk want to maintain the status quo, you all want to keep things wonderful for the established and successful schools -the wards that you are councillors for and none of you care at all about this school or what is best for it. Desperate Parent
  • Score: 0

12:00pm Thu 28 Oct 10

moveandweshoot says...

Last I heard the Harris machine was mobilising to open a free school in Beckenham.
What interests me is the fact that Dan Moynihan used to work for Gove and so did Rachel Wolf who now runs the New School Network, which is supposed to be a charity, but is funded to the tune of £500,000 by Gove's office.
The New Schools Network is supposed to give parents independent advice about how to set up free schools, but how is that possible when it is paid for by government money and is basically pushing forward Gove's reform agenda?
It was a shame Rachel Wolf didn't actually come to the public meeting in Beckenham in person, although someone from the NSN was there to thump the tub for free schools. As a parent I haven't actually made up my mind on the academy or whether free schools are a good way to proceed. I share an interest in the question with
the parents from Beckenham. But regarding all the furore over the future of KPSC. Has it occurred to you that greater powers may be manipulating your passion for your children's education to further their own political interests? There is certainly an whiff of nimbyism to all this protest about KPSC and keeping Beckenham schools for Beckenham kids. If someone from the campaign to tell me what role NSN has had in your protest, as it says on their website they develop networks of interest in free schools. You might interpret that as stirring things up, or generating the kind of "public interest" that under Gove's Academies Bill would open the door for organisations like Harris Federation, or indeed free-schools?
Last I heard the Harris machine was mobilising to open a free school in Beckenham. What interests me is the fact that Dan Moynihan used to work for Gove and so did Rachel Wolf who now runs the New School Network, which is supposed to be a charity, but is funded to the tune of £500,000 by Gove's office. The New Schools Network is supposed to give parents independent advice about how to set up free schools, but how is that possible when it is paid for by government money and is basically pushing forward Gove's reform agenda? It was a shame Rachel Wolf didn't actually come to the public meeting in Beckenham in person, although someone from the NSN was there to thump the tub for free schools. As a parent I haven't actually made up my mind on the academy or whether free schools are a good way to proceed. I share an interest in the question with the parents from Beckenham. But regarding all the furore over the future of KPSC. Has it occurred to you that greater powers may be manipulating your passion for your children's education to further their own political interests? There is certainly an whiff of nimbyism to all this protest about KPSC and keeping Beckenham schools for Beckenham kids. If someone from the campaign to tell me what role NSN has had in your protest, as it says on their website they develop networks of interest in free schools. You might interpret that as stirring things up, or generating the kind of "public interest" that under Gove's Academies Bill would open the door for organisations like Harris Federation, or indeed free-schools? moveandweshoot
  • Score: 0

12:10pm Thu 28 Oct 10

moveandweshoot says...

There is a mistake in the penultimate sentence in my previous post. It should read "If someone from the campaign could tell me..." Apologies
There is a mistake in the penultimate sentence in my previous post. It should read "If someone from the campaign could tell me..." Apologies moveandweshoot
  • Score: 0

12:18pm Thu 28 Oct 10

Middle Class Parent says...

moveandweshoot:

I do not know enough about the background of the Free Schools network to comment on the specific points you raise. HIB are going down the Harris Free School route as parents want it, The Goverment want it and Harris want it.
This was never about a Beckenham school for Beckenham kids, thats another dangerous mis - truth. If you want more background to that you might want want to take a look at Jon's excellent web site.
We wanted an excellent local school for local kids, be that Penge, Crystal Palace or Beck.

Parents from 2012 will be able to locally choose between Kelsey, Cator or a Co- Ed Harris. Choice is good and a rising tide floats all boats.

I note no local Conservative councillors are telling as if they sent their kids to Kelsey....

Do as I say not as I do....

And of course its politics....I think you would be hard pushed to find anyone who would disagree with that.
Middle Class
moveandweshoot: I do not know enough about the background of the Free Schools network to comment on the specific points you raise. HIB are going down the Harris Free School route as parents want it, The Goverment want it and Harris want it. This was never about a Beckenham school for Beckenham kids, thats another dangerous mis - truth. If you want more background to that you might want want to take a look at Jon's excellent web site. We wanted an excellent local school for local kids, be that Penge, Crystal Palace or Beck. Parents from 2012 will be able to locally choose between Kelsey, Cator or a Co- Ed Harris. Choice is good and a rising tide floats all boats. I note no local Conservative councillors are telling as if they sent their kids to Kelsey.... Do as I say not as I do.... And of course its politics....I think you would be hard pushed to find anyone who would disagree with that. Middle Class Middle Class Parent
  • Score: 0

2:15pm Thu 28 Oct 10

kasey.w says...

To Cllr Smith
I think you need to read my comments again about Brian Lloyd because if my comments encourage you, you have clearly lost sight as to what this is all about, that or you are a very sarcastic man. How many years has Brian Llloyd been the head of KPSC? one very small achievement and the school is suddenly doing great things please stop thinking you can pull the wool over our eyes and treat us like fools.....Brian Lloyd clearly has friends in high places!!!! looking after his interests rather than the intrests and needs of the paying residents of Beckenham.
To Cllr Smith I think you need to read my comments again about Brian Lloyd because if my comments encourage you, you have clearly lost sight as to what this is all about, that or you are a very sarcastic man. How many years has Brian Llloyd been the head of KPSC? one very small achievement and the school is suddenly doing great things please stop thinking you can pull the wool over our eyes and treat us like fools.....Brian Lloyd clearly has friends in high places!!!! looking after his interests rather than the intrests and needs of the paying residents of Beckenham. kasey.w
  • Score: 0

2:25pm Thu 28 Oct 10

Ian Sider says...

kasey.w wrote:
To Cllr Smith
I think you need to read my comments again about Brian Lloyd because if my comments encourage you, you have clearly lost sight as to what this is all about, that or you are a very sarcastic man. How many years has Brian Llloyd been the head of KPSC? one very small achievement and the school is suddenly doing great things please stop thinking you can pull the wool over our eyes and treat us like fools.....Brian Lloyd clearly has friends in high places!!!! looking after his interests rather than the intrests and needs of the paying residents of Beckenham.
kasey.w wrote:

"..Brian Lloyd clearly has friends in high places!!!! looking after his interests rather than the intrests and needs of the paying residents of Beckenham."

Lord Harris clearly has friends in much higher places, though.
[quote][p][bold]kasey.w[/bold] wrote: To Cllr Smith I think you need to read my comments again about Brian Lloyd because if my comments encourage you, you have clearly lost sight as to what this is all about, that or you are a very sarcastic man. How many years has Brian Llloyd been the head of KPSC? one very small achievement and the school is suddenly doing great things please stop thinking you can pull the wool over our eyes and treat us like fools.....Brian Lloyd clearly has friends in high places!!!! looking after his interests rather than the intrests and needs of the paying residents of Beckenham.[/p][/quote]kasey.w wrote: "..Brian Lloyd clearly has friends in high places!!!! looking after his interests rather than the intrests and needs of the paying residents of Beckenham." Lord Harris clearly has friends in much higher places, though. Ian Sider
  • Score: 0

2:31pm Thu 28 Oct 10

kasey.w says...

To Ian Sider
You could be right, but at least Lord Harris is using them to the advantage of others rather than the CHOSEN FEW!!!!
To Ian Sider You could be right, but at least Lord Harris is using them to the advantage of others rather than the CHOSEN FEW!!!! kasey.w
  • Score: 0

2:50pm Thu 28 Oct 10

Ian Sider says...

OK let me give you all an insight here. Bromley is not anti-Academy or anti-Free School, and anyone who still insists that it is does not know as much about the situation as they think they do.

The basic problem is that Harris, Moynihan, Murphy and co have got peoples back up in Bromley unnecessarily. Harris, after finding that Bromley werent going to fall at his knees, has embarked on what seems to be a guerrilla campaign in an effort to bully the Council into endorsing him above the other academy players.

Harris has behaved like a spoilt child that goes running to teacher because the other boy won’t give him what he wants – the teacher is Gove who apparently has ‘promised’ Harris more than one academy in Bromley.

In a borough that was opposed to Tory politics, like Southwark, this would be understandable but the bull in a china shop approach has actually led to a lot of people getting wound up unnecessarily.

Harris’s people are now saying that they will set up a free school (OK) … and, apparently that they are in the final stages of discussions to take over Cator Park (OK as well, but make your mind up which is it!)

I feel sad for Fiona Murphy and her friends, because they just cant see that theyre being played as pawns in Harris’s empire-building.

PS I am not a senior player in Bromley Council, just an observer from the team dugout.
OK let me give you all an insight here. Bromley is not anti-Academy or anti-Free School, and anyone who still insists that it is does not know as much about the situation as they think they do. The basic problem is that Harris, Moynihan, Murphy and co have got peoples back up in Bromley unnecessarily. Harris, after finding that Bromley werent going to fall at his knees, has embarked on what seems to be a guerrilla campaign in an effort to bully the Council into endorsing him above the other academy players. Harris has behaved like a spoilt child that goes running to teacher because the other boy won’t give him what he wants – the teacher is Gove who apparently has ‘promised’ Harris more than one academy in Bromley. In a borough that was opposed to Tory politics, like Southwark, this would be understandable but the bull in a china shop approach has actually led to a lot of people getting wound up unnecessarily. Harris’s people are now saying that they will set up a free school (OK) … and, apparently that they are in the final stages of discussions to take over Cator Park (OK as well, but make your mind up which is it!) I feel sad for Fiona Murphy and her friends, because they just cant see that theyre being played as pawns in Harris’s empire-building. PS I am not a senior player in Bromley Council, just an observer from the team dugout. Ian Sider
  • Score: 0

3:06pm Thu 28 Oct 10

BeckenhamTown.us says...

Nice to see a discussion on here too now.

Cllr Smith thanks for your reply, I don't exclude anyone on the website and we do even have a Hayes discussion forum on there which I'm sure will get going over time, amongst other many other local areas.

You are mistaken that all the other opposition parties voted against the motion. The LibDems abstained and Cllr Getgood who is a Governor of Kelsey School is not really going to vote against a school he is fully supportive of now is he?

As far as 50 other conservative councillors not jumping up and parroting on the same thing, I think you do them an injustice, I voted for a couple of them, I'd like to see some interrogation in debates by all individuals, a bit of individuality, but alas it certainly had a closed-rank no-one say anything on the issue party line on Monday evening. Very poor for democracy and free speech that, but you all do play politics for a living.

I noted when the debate moved on to the controlled parking issues in Orpington local Conservative Cllrs were on their feet fighting the cause for their ward residents which was admirable, even though you gave them short thrift. Displacement issues could have been taken more seriously, it matters to those residents.

Thanks for pointing out the Caretaker site - you might like to read this post by them this week - http://www.thecareta
kers.net/CMS/index.p
hp?option=com_conten
t&task=view&id=13566
&Itemid=44

Kelsey is below the national average and Academies have been improving standards working with weaker schools.

One question Cllr Smith or any other Conservative councillor might like to finally answer is why you only want a co-partner academy? Cllr Noades nor Gillian Pearson will say. Why can you not give up the control to an independent academy body? Is there a problem? Are you all tongue tied?

Perhaps if once again you won't answer a parent and conservative voter; then perhaps a journalists at The NewsShopper or another newspaper might like to ask you this same question and I'm sure you'd be happy to give the PRESS an answer.

Finally if the council were well aware that change was coming and that the status quo cannot be kept with the creation or provision of Free schools and academies why act as a modern day King Canute. Change is inevitable as the tide; use the political acumen you posess to work with, meet and deal with parents wishes, academies needs and molify other schools it will affect. That will save time, money, hot air and give the kids the best education they deserve.
Nice to see a discussion on here too now. Cllr Smith thanks for your reply, I don't exclude anyone on the website and we do even have a Hayes discussion forum on there which I'm sure will get going over time, amongst other many other local areas. You are mistaken that all the other opposition parties voted against the motion. The LibDems abstained and Cllr Getgood who is a Governor of Kelsey School is not really going to vote against a school he is fully supportive of now is he? As far as 50 other conservative councillors not jumping up and parroting on the same thing, I think you do them an injustice, I voted for a couple of them, I'd like to see some interrogation in debates by all individuals, a bit of individuality, but alas it certainly had a closed-rank no-one say anything on the issue party line on Monday evening. Very poor for democracy and free speech that, but you all do play politics for a living. I noted when the debate moved on to the controlled parking issues in Orpington local Conservative Cllrs were on their feet fighting the cause for their ward residents which was admirable, even though you gave them short thrift. Displacement issues could have been taken more seriously, it matters to those residents. Thanks for pointing out the Caretaker site - you might like to read this post by them this week - http://www.thecareta kers.net/CMS/index.p hp?option=com_conten t&task=view&id=13566 &Itemid=44 Kelsey is below the national average and Academies have been improving standards working with weaker schools. One question Cllr Smith or any other Conservative councillor might like to finally answer is why you only want a co-partner academy? Cllr Noades nor Gillian Pearson will say. Why can you not give up the control to an independent academy body? Is there a problem? Are you all tongue tied? Perhaps if once again you won't answer a parent and conservative voter; then perhaps a journalists at The NewsShopper or another newspaper might like to ask you this same question and I'm sure you'd be happy to give the PRESS an answer. Finally if the council were well aware that change was coming and that the status quo cannot be kept with the creation or provision of Free schools and academies why act as a modern day King Canute. Change is inevitable as the tide; use the political acumen you posess to work with, meet and deal with parents wishes, academies needs and molify other schools it will affect. That will save time, money, hot air and give the kids the best education they deserve. BeckenhamTown.us
  • Score: 0

3:11pm Thu 28 Oct 10

Fionam says...

Ian
Thanks for your concern but really I am doing fine. I discovered details of the sponsor "competition" Cllr Noad went through for Kelsey earlier in the year .
He said it was a competition, then he said it was not a competition, then he said it might have been a competition.
I thought a Harris school in Beck was a great idea, lots of other parents agree with me.
Bromley will only entertain an Academy as a co-sponsor,this rules Harris out,its already been covered,I am not sure what the issue is with the Free school,if you dont like the sound of it dont use it,there will be more choice.
My husband and I thought this was worth trying.If you live in Beckenham you must know the deal, mass migration of year 5 parents to Hayes and West Wickham every year.
We cannot afford the 100k added onto our mortgage to enable us to do this. Or do you think the current education by mortgage is fair?
I am sure it suits the Estate Agents and Mortgage Advisors that we keep the status quo but for parents more choice would be a welcome relief.
As you work for Bromley and say Bromley are not anti- academy do you know if Cllr Noad is planning on withdrawing the statement he gave to this newspaper last week?
A sponsor partner does rule out an Independant Academy providor such as Harris.
Fiona Murphy
Ian Thanks for your concern but really I am doing fine. I discovered details of the sponsor "competition" Cllr Noad went through for Kelsey earlier in the year . He said it was a competition, then he said it was not a competition, then he said it might have been a competition. I thought a Harris school in Beck was a great idea, lots of other parents agree with me. Bromley will only entertain an Academy as a co-sponsor,this rules Harris out,its already been covered,I am not sure what the issue is with the Free school,if you dont like the sound of it dont use it,there will be more choice. My husband and I thought this was worth trying.If you live in Beckenham you must know the deal, mass migration of year 5 parents to Hayes and West Wickham every year. We cannot afford the 100k added onto our mortgage to enable us to do this. Or do you think the current education by mortgage is fair? I am sure it suits the Estate Agents and Mortgage Advisors that we keep the status quo but for parents more choice would be a welcome relief. As you work for Bromley and say Bromley are not anti- academy do you know if Cllr Noad is planning on withdrawing the statement he gave to this newspaper last week? A sponsor partner does rule out an Independant Academy providor such as Harris. Fiona Murphy Fionam
  • Score: 0

3:17pm Thu 28 Oct 10

Desperate Parent says...

Dear Ian

Yes all of this is an emotive subject and your feeling sorry for parents won't make any difference, positive or negative to us, but the long and short of it remains that Kesley Park has been failing for a large chunk of the time since 1994. It has failed again. Long before this campaign started parents were voting with their feet -Kelsey Park had 70 surplus places last September because clearly the community do not support the school. This was nothing to do with this campaign. Parents have a right to expect something to be urgently done about improving it. Why should we have to move home. Yes we know councillors repsonsible for wards near the successful schools are happy with the status quo.

We know Noad is, we know G Pearson is and so is Cllr Carr and MP Bob Stewart, they don't have the problem to deal with.

If it was a failing cardiac unit in a hospital you would not say to the surgeons under whose knives people were dying "you consult and decide what to do!" people would think it a nonesense -but this is exactly what Bromley have chosen to do. People have a genuine right to expect the council to take action -especially when they see other places using the Academy route to get their schools sorted out quickly. And none of this has anything to do with Gove- it mostly happened under labour. We are happy for support from anyone -any political party. Parents are not political about it.

it increasingly seems to parents that the only way not to get backs up in Bromley is to quietly accept your lot in life and don't dare expect or ask for help from the council. Well not any more. We are not bothered about those who are ruffled by this, low or high in the council hierachy.

The answer for us is to set up a free school. Then Kesley Park can continue to do its thing and if people support that they can choose to go there. if people want something else they can go to a free school. Then in five years time we can see which is more successful and which is well supported.

Parents will be very grateful and thankful not to have move their homes to get a decent education. That's all we want.
Dear Ian Yes all of this is an emotive subject and your feeling sorry for parents won't make any difference, positive or negative to us, but the long and short of it remains that Kesley Park has been failing for a large chunk of the time since 1994. It has failed again. Long before this campaign started parents were voting with their feet -Kelsey Park had 70 surplus places last September because clearly the community do not support the school. This was nothing to do with this campaign. Parents have a right to expect something to be urgently done about improving it. Why should we have to move home. Yes we know councillors repsonsible for wards near the successful schools are happy with the status quo. We know Noad is, we know G Pearson is and so is Cllr Carr and MP Bob Stewart, they don't have the problem to deal with. If it was a failing cardiac unit in a hospital you would not say to the surgeons under whose knives people were dying "you consult and decide what to do!" people would think it a nonesense -but this is exactly what Bromley have chosen to do. People have a genuine right to expect the council to take action -especially when they see other places using the Academy route to get their schools sorted out quickly. And none of this has anything to do with Gove- it mostly happened under labour. We are happy for support from anyone -any political party. Parents are not political about it. it increasingly seems to parents that the only way not to get backs up in Bromley is to quietly accept your lot in life and don't dare expect or ask for help from the council. Well not any more. We are not bothered about those who are ruffled by this, low or high in the council hierachy. The answer for us is to set up a free school. Then Kesley Park can continue to do its thing and if people support that they can choose to go there. if people want something else they can go to a free school. Then in five years time we can see which is more successful and which is well supported. Parents will be very grateful and thankful not to have move their homes to get a decent education. That's all we want. Desperate Parent
  • Score: 0

3:18pm Thu 28 Oct 10

Cllr Colin Smith says...

Jon

"You are mistaken that all the other opposition parties voted against the motion. The LibDems abstained"

No, you are mistaken and clearly weren't paying attention either on Monday evening, or in reading what I wrote.

Which was that the Leaders of the 3 parties voted against the petition

In the case of the Lib Dems that was Cllr David McBride - but don't take my word for it, ask Reg.
Jon "You are mistaken that all the other opposition parties voted against the motion. The LibDems abstained" No, you are mistaken and clearly weren't paying attention either on Monday evening, or in reading what I wrote. Which was that the Leaders of the 3 parties voted against the petition In the case of the Lib Dems that was Cllr David McBride - but don't take my word for it, ask Reg. Cllr Colin Smith
  • Score: 0

3:24pm Thu 28 Oct 10

kasey.w says...

To An insider Ooops Ian Sider
We are not all members of the Harris into Beckenham group, just parents that want the best for thier children. As I have stated before I have formed my own opinion about KPSC. Our Son will probably be offered KPSC by default although we haven't put it on our common application form, that puts us in a no win situation with our sons education come september 2011.
I do feel sorry for the KPSC student that had abuse hurled at him from some very small minded parents, but our son had to listen to students using some very strong language and very uncivilised behaviour whilst visiting the school with his primary school recently. He has formed his own opinions about this school without any input from us as his parents ( I know that you will say that we have discussed our views with him but I can assure you that we haven't because we know that we are going to be offered KPSC and need him to think positively) As parents we are very concerned about sons future we are not in a position to move into the Hayes, Langley catchment area and if the truth be known we don't see why we should, all that we are asking is that we have a descent school in the Beckenham area and KPSC is clearly not able to provide this. You need to stop preaching and assuming that we are all up in arms because suddenly KPSC faults are being made public by the Harris into Beckenham campaign many of us have been aware of them for a very long time.
To An insider Ooops Ian Sider We are not all members of the Harris into Beckenham group, just parents that want the best for thier children. As I have stated before I have formed my own opinion about KPSC. Our Son will probably be offered KPSC by default although we haven't put it on our common application form, that puts us in a no win situation with our sons education come september 2011. I do feel sorry for the KPSC student that had abuse hurled at him from some very small minded parents, but our son had to listen to students using some very strong language and very uncivilised behaviour whilst visiting the school with his primary school recently. He has formed his own opinions about this school without any input from us as his parents ( I know that you will say that we have discussed our views with him but I can assure you that we haven't because we know that we are going to be offered KPSC and need him to think positively) As parents we are very concerned about sons future we are not in a position to move into the Hayes, Langley catchment area and if the truth be known we don't see why we should, all that we are asking is that we have a descent school in the Beckenham area and KPSC is clearly not able to provide this. You need to stop preaching and assuming that we are all up in arms because suddenly KPSC faults are being made public by the Harris into Beckenham campaign many of us have been aware of them for a very long time. kasey.w
  • Score: 0

3:26pm Thu 28 Oct 10

BeckenhamTown.us says...

Ian Sider is that a new headline and discussion?

'Harris’s people are now saying that they will set up a free school (OK) … and, apparently that they are in the final stages of discussions to take over Cator Park (OK as well, but make your mind up which is it!)'

I'd be delighted if true on all counts.

I think 'sources' are needed to validate such words or it will start off a whole new discussion and I'm not sure Bromley Council need this as well do they? More tin hats on order for them me thinks.

We are all used and played in life, that's life!

Don't feel sorry for parents who want the best for their kids. Every body, institution or business has motives for whatever they do, to some its about power, others altruismm but Parents? It's about love of their children and making sure they get the best chances in life.
Ian Sider is that a new headline and discussion? 'Harris’s people are now saying that they will set up a free school (OK) … and, apparently that they are in the final stages of discussions to take over Cator Park (OK as well, but make your mind up which is it!)' I'd be delighted if true on all counts. I think 'sources' are needed to validate such words or it will start off a whole new discussion and I'm not sure Bromley Council need this as well do they? More tin hats on order for them me thinks. We are all used and played in life, that's life! Don't feel sorry for parents who want the best for their kids. Every body, institution or business has motives for whatever they do, to some its about power, others altruismm but Parents? It's about love of their children and making sure they get the best chances in life. BeckenhamTown.us
  • Score: 0

3:36pm Thu 28 Oct 10

BeckenhamTown.us says...

Ah I see party leaders you say, yes you are correct, however at least the other minority parties showed some free spirit and voted on conscience and not on mass block vote. Cllr Reg Adams LibDem did indeed abstain.

Now that you are back, when you said you weren't adding anything more. Care to answer the question as to why the council still want only a co-management arrangement with an Academy?
Ah I see party leaders you say, yes you are correct, however at least the other minority parties showed some free spirit and voted on conscience and not on mass block vote. Cllr Reg Adams LibDem did indeed abstain. Now that you are back, when you said you weren't adding anything more. Care to answer the question as to why the council still want only a co-management arrangement with an Academy? BeckenhamTown.us
  • Score: 0

4:54pm Thu 28 Oct 10

bob_wilson says...

There are a few things about this campaign which do not make any sense to me as an impartial outsider. Firstly, yes I can see that improvements to the educational system in Bromley will be beneficial but I do not understand why it is necessary to insult the hardworking staff and students at Kelsey Park in the process. To me as someone who has visited the school is ludicrous, I have observed many lessons taught by staff there with have been judged to be Outstanding both by Ofsted and other impartial educational consultants - to state as many supporting the campaign have done that all teaching at Kelsey is offensive to many staff there and factually inaccurate.

Secondly, Ms Murphy and her fellow campaigners are within their rights to campaign for change but stating it has to be a Harris academy without opening up their own minds to alternatives (Oasis, Haberdasher Aske and even Kemnal Federation school have also helped turn schools around for example and yet these options will not even be considered by HIB) seems to be extremely hypocritical when they criticise the council for being one-sided in stating (according to the campaign) that they will only accept a co-sponsor. Personally, another Harris academy is offering less choice for the parents of Beckenham as there are so many Harris academies in the nearby area and I would like to see a more open discussion about the future for education in Beckenham than the one sided one currently being put forward (and I know this will get the reply you send your kids to Kelsey and we'll send ours to the free school however that to me is not a helpful response to what should be a constructive debate).
There are a few things about this campaign which do not make any sense to me as an impartial outsider. Firstly, yes I can see that improvements to the educational system in Bromley will be beneficial but I do not understand why it is necessary to insult the hardworking staff and students at Kelsey Park in the process. To me as someone who has visited the school is ludicrous, I have observed many lessons taught by staff there with have been judged to be Outstanding both by Ofsted and other impartial educational consultants - to state as many supporting the campaign have done that all teaching at Kelsey is offensive to many staff there and factually inaccurate. Secondly, Ms Murphy and her fellow campaigners are within their rights to campaign for change but stating it has to be a Harris academy without opening up their own minds to alternatives (Oasis, Haberdasher Aske and even Kemnal Federation school have also helped turn schools around for example and yet these options will not even be considered by HIB) seems to be extremely hypocritical when they criticise the council for being one-sided in stating (according to the campaign) that they will only accept a co-sponsor. Personally, another Harris academy is offering less choice for the parents of Beckenham as there are so many Harris academies in the nearby area and I would like to see a more open discussion about the future for education in Beckenham than the one sided one currently being put forward (and I know this will get the reply you send your kids to Kelsey and we'll send ours to the free school however that to me is not a helpful response to what should be a constructive debate). bob_wilson
  • Score: 0

5:50pm Thu 28 Oct 10

John Anthony Jones says...

There is an expression in Africa that it takes a village to raise to child and I do believe this to be pretty a universal truth. To want a Beckenham school for Beckenham pupils is not ,nimbyism' of any kind. It lies at the heart of ANY solution to Kelsey's problems. Pupils from outside Beckenham bring with them an anonymity which frees them to behave in a way that they would not be or should not be able to within their own communities. I have been a 'Kelsey watcher' for about seven years now and would like to challenge Mr Lloyds' detractors to ask them what they would do that he is NOT doing yet ABLE to to do in terms of current legislation and educational policy.
There is an expression in Africa that it takes a village to raise to child and I do believe this to be pretty a universal truth. To want a Beckenham school for Beckenham pupils is not ,nimbyism' of any kind. It lies at the heart of ANY solution to Kelsey's problems. Pupils from outside Beckenham bring with them an anonymity which frees them to behave in a way that they would not be or should not be able to within their own communities. I have been a 'Kelsey watcher' for about seven years now and would like to challenge Mr Lloyds' detractors to ask them what they would do that he is NOT doing yet ABLE to to do in terms of current legislation and educational policy. John Anthony Jones
  • Score: 0

8:50pm Thu 28 Oct 10

moveandweshoot says...

Question for John Anthony Jones from the African village. Just how exactly are the pupils from "outside" Beckenham village "anonymous". Do they leave their papers at the border?
Bob Wilson has a good point. There is a lot about this campaign that doesn't make sense. Why are so many of these parent activists getting their tights in a tangle when their kids are either in schools other than KPSC ("thank god!") or not even in primary school, or probably in a good many cases, born?
Was it Billy Joel who sang so eloquently, quoting Lord Harris I believe, "We didn't start the fire."
Question for John Anthony Jones from the African village. Just how exactly are the pupils from "outside" Beckenham village "anonymous". Do they leave their papers at the border? Bob Wilson has a good point. There is a lot about this campaign that doesn't make sense. Why are so many of these parent activists getting their tights in a tangle when their kids are either in schools other than KPSC ("thank god!") or not even in primary school, or probably in a good many cases, born? Was it Billy Joel who sang so eloquently, quoting Lord Harris I believe, "We didn't start the fire." moveandweshoot
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11:31am Fri 29 Oct 10

BeckenhamTown.us says...

Dear Moveandweshoot

I think you'll find all those answers in the long discussion at, it paints a far fuller picture than one off press stories

http://www.beckenham
town.us/forum/topics
/new-coed-harris-aca
demy-on
Dear Moveandweshoot I think you'll find all those answers in the long discussion at, it paints a far fuller picture than one off press stories http://www.beckenham town.us/forum/topics /new-coed-harris-aca demy-on BeckenhamTown.us
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4:42pm Sat 30 Oct 10

ben.dover says...

To the first poster 'Eagles_Man',

You try to define that Beckenham Town forum is JUST a forum, not a blog. Yet the parent who is head of this campaign, Fiona Murphy, is using the term 'blog' quite freely (see page 41 comment 10 on the blog/website/discuss
ion page/forum)
*delete as appropriate

"....there is page after page after page on this **blog** covering the matter."


My respect to the matter is that they are all freely used terms, I do not understand why some have thought the News Shopper is causing a rift by using the wording 'blog' in the title and article.
One public viewable page which users can freely post their opinions on a matter I see as the same thing (blog, forum, discussion etc)

Benjamin
To the first poster 'Eagles_Man', You try to define that Beckenham Town forum is JUST a forum, not a blog. Yet the parent who is head of this campaign, Fiona Murphy, is using the term 'blog' quite freely (see page 41 comment 10 on the blog/website/discuss ion page/forum) *delete as appropriate "....there is page after page after page on this **blog** covering the matter." My respect to the matter is that they are all freely used terms, I do not understand why some have thought the News Shopper is causing a rift by using the wording 'blog' in the title and article. One public viewable page which users can freely post their opinions on a matter I see as the same thing (blog, forum, discussion etc) Benjamin ben.dover
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8:49am Sun 31 Oct 10

Desperate Parent says...

"THE HEADTEACHER BARELY GETS OUT OF HIS OFFICE THESE DAYS"

says the headline to this article. But why? Scanning the media coverage the vast majority of it has not involved direct quotes from the school. To my knowledge from the Beckenham Town website parents are not bombarding the school with Freedom of Information requests -so what exactly is he doing in there?

Is this positioning to lay off the blame when the results/inspection are not as good as predicted?
"THE HEADTEACHER BARELY GETS OUT OF HIS OFFICE THESE DAYS" says the headline to this article. But why? Scanning the media coverage the vast majority of it has not involved direct quotes from the school. To my knowledge from the Beckenham Town website parents are not bombarding the school with Freedom of Information requests -so what exactly is he doing in there? Is this positioning to lay off the blame when the results/inspection are not as good as predicted? Desperate Parent
  • Score: 0

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