Presumably this man will now be known as 'PCSO Poundstretcher'.

It is a shame that the Credit Crunch had to happen. After all, he could have become a merchant banker; he obviously has all the qualifications.

Erastus

What an absolute joke - Judge John Tanzer should be sacked. He's just given carte blanche for every pervert to whack himself off in public and then pay a quid for the privilege.

This just perfectly sums up the problems in this country at the moment - everyone points the finger at bad parenting, poor schooling, poor policing etc, but the real problem is the pathetic judiciary. If they handed down decent sentences our crime rates would start to become controlable.

Judges and Magistrates constantly ignore sentencing guidelines and give sentences that are absolutely no deterrant to the criminals - in fact they give them the green light that it's OK to carry on committing crime. Pathetic sanctions like a £1 fine for masturbating in public are no deterrant.

The action that needs to be taken to get this country back on the right track is for the discretionary powers that you Magistrates and Judges have to be removed entirely. There should be a mandatory sentence for each crime - and probation should be abolished totally. We should have truth in sentencing. If you commit a crime and the sentence is ten years, you should serve ten years and not a day less. There should be no 'time off for good behaviour', instead there should be an increase in sentence for bad behaviour.

Judges and Magistrates need to be accountable. If the police or social services fail to deal with someone who goes on to kill there would quite rightly be serious repurcusssions. But time and again we have seen Judges and Magistrates do this without comeback. And when this is challenged they throw up their hands in horror and look with disdain upon those who call for them to be reprimanded or removed from the bench.

If the courts were a deterrant, people would think twice before offending. If a child touches a hot oven, he very soon learns not to do it again. This is because there are serious, non-negotiable, immutable and immediate consequences to that action. Whether he comes from a broken home or whether his mother once smacked his hand are an utter irrelevance.

What we need is a website similar to the police's crime mapping website - a place where members of the public can log into which lists all of our magistrates and all of our judges. Upon clicking on their name, it would reveal a list by type (ie. burglary, robbery, assault) of the cases that they had been responsible for when someone had been convicted - and the sentence that was handed down. That way we could immediately see where the weak links in the criminal justice system are. We'd know exactly who is releasing the criminals back into our community to commit further offences and exactly who was responsible for the criminals having a laugh at our expense.

There's one very glaring weakness in the criminal justice system - people like Judge Tanzer.

Excalibur - you seem to hold very strong views about crime and sentencing. You comment "there should be a mandatory sentence for each crime and probation should be abolished". Are you suggesting for example that those with mental health problems are treated in exactly the same way as those who are just bad?? You seem to be. Are you suggesting that everyone should be sent to prison?? If the probation service were to be abolished then that seems to be the outcome does it not??

And, pray-tell what are your views on the case of the OAP who killed his wife, also reported today. Are you saying that he should have been made subject to some mandatory minimum and spent the rest of his life in prison??

I think you have very narrowminded views of the criminal justice system and seem to forget that we should judge everyone on their own individal merits.

I agree entirely that the sentences, on the whole being handed out seem very lenient but it is not the fact that the courts do not follow the guidelines but that the guidelines themselves are arguably too low.

It is too easy to say that anyone who has done a bad thing ought to be sent to prison - the probation service can do more good in the long term than prison.

I can say first hand that prison is not deterrent enough for many. It is a badge of honour. It is sad to say that those who fear it the most are those who have made some terrible mistake (i'm sure even you have excalibur) and, will never make the same one again. Those who commit crimes repeatedly do not fear prison.

I'm thankful that often judges and magistrates do show compassion and make the right decisions. I don't know enough about the case to make a comment on Judge Tanzers sentence but i think you need to come and spend a day at Bexley Magistrates Court to see that so many of the peole that pass through the system are in need of help and support. Where so many people suffer from ongoing and often undiagnised psychiatric problems it is very narrowminded to adopt your broadbrush attitude to sentence.

And Nightowl is the perfect example of why this country will continue to go downhill and the criminals will continue to offend. And the frightening thing is that Guardian-reading left-wing loonies like this run through the heart of the court service.

Actually I'm not a left wing loony at all. As I said, i agree that many sentences handed out seem too lenient, i agree that the bad ought to be punished. I was just trying to make people in ivory towers understand that the problem is thus;

1) Those who deserve to go to prison do not see it as a deterrent, it is too easy, and yes bad people do deserve to be punished and should be punished.
2) The majority of the problems with crime in this country stem from lack of respect for other people and their property.
3) The prison system does nothing to treat respect.
4) My view, actually is that prison should be made tougher and harder so it does act as a deterrent.
5)My view is also that prison should be for the worse kind of people. I think that learning respect for society and for other people will do more to stop the 'hoodies' of today committing crime than the badge of honour of the 'i've done time in feltham club'.

You cannot treat everyone the same. People are not the same. It is about punishemnt but also about changing the attitudes of those who offend, which, please believe me is possible.

I respect your views Rattler One Seven but again, invite you to step down from your ivory towers. I totally understand where you come from, i used to feel exactly the same, but there are those who do genuinley need very real help in their lives.

I could give thousands of examples, here is one; Do we lock up all the women who are beaten and abused by their husbands for years and then one day hit back? in your world you seem to suggest so.

Yes, it is an extreme example but therin lies my point - there will always be exceptions to the rules and that is why there has to be discretion.

Matter in hand.

Thanks for your response to my post, Nightowl, it certainly gives a different view on the subject. And the example that you cited of the OAP certainly challenges my call for mandatory sentences!

I do contend, however, that sentencing guidelines are ignored far too often and something needs to be done about this. And the sentence in this case was an absolute joke.

The problem is that the police and the prosecutors can prove a case beyond reasonable doubt, an independent jury of 12 good citizens can find a criminal guilty, the government can set guidelines for sentences and yet one daft judge can ignore all of this and give his own take on things. And they can do this time and again, without fear of any sort of comeback!

That just cannot be right in a democratic society and something needs to be done as a matter of urgency. These people mst be held accountable for their actions.

My idea of a website must be a starting point for holding the judiciary to account - something that is long overdue in this country.

No arguments from me there Excalibur. The sentences are not stringent enough for those who repeatedly offend. You will find me supporting that view. Those who have been offered help and given a second chance and waste it.

What we don't see reported are the hundreds of cases going through the court of residential burglaries. The sentencing guidelines give a minumum three year term (actually 18 months when you think about it) for a third residential burglary. The judges follow the guidelines in these cases, but one has to say that where someone has broken into someone elses house, often at night when we are asleep upstairs an 18 month term is not sufficient punishment. Following the sentencing guidelines are one thing but, I think many people would be surprised as to how lenient they actually are. Sadly, the guidelines are generally stuck to and the real scumbags don't get long enough.

Rapists go to prison for normally a very minimum of 6 years for a first offence, following a guilty plea (again, actually 3!!). Again, not long enough BUT, this is reflective of the guidelines!!

It's easy to say I'm a loony liberal but, i like to think that we are all sensible enough to know that there are some people in the world that are genuinley vulnerable or deserving of a second chance or just a bit of support in life and those, who just take the mickey out of us all and should be in a tough, miserable prison.