I dont know where the police get the idea that knife crime starts at home. It starts on the streets!

If the punishment was harsh then these kids wouldn't think it so cool!

We need harder laws in this country to frighten people enough not to commit the crime. The law is not feared at all by these kids. Getting 'nicked' is seen as a clever thing to do because they all laugh about it.

People carry knives because they know they wont go to prison for long, even if they take someones life. So in their eyes they 'gain respect' and beat the system. Which is the perfect making for a gang leader, gang members follow their leader which means they will get to be like their leader if they to carry a knife this results in them doing so and probably stabbing someone to get respect. So get all the burgalars and freudstars out of prison and make some room so life actully means you will never walk the streets or be able to carry a knife again! Or bring back the death penalty, a life for a life.

Investment by this so called government would be a start.Get into schools now and start learning from the mistakes of the past 10 years,Grab the childrens imagination at a young age and educate them young about these horrific crimes and attitudes abound on our streets,protect the new growth and then look at dealing with the infested top parts. Give these kids something to do,start looking at dealing with the problems we already have here and stop importing more. These kids leave school with no prospects,jobs are thin on the ground,most have no ambition whatsoever,their lives revolve around a melee of cheap alcohol and standing on street corners. Violence from all walks of the media need to be looked at,You cannot frighten the youth by showing them gory pictures of stab victims,they have got more horrific photos than that stored as screensavers on their phones.Invest in local soccer teams,skate parks,pool halls,and from experience given time the tide will turn,make these kids realise that they do belong somewhere.Stop closing down every facility they have of gathering in through lack of funds.Parents need to come on board here,educate them also not by fines or telling them they are horrific monster breeding scum get them involved also,any child caught doing wrong should be made attend courses with BOTH parents.Could I ask the government why they give children in youth detention centres pocket money ? I have worked with youth crime for over 12 years now,does the government not realise that we see it all at a grass roots level,a 12 month sentence in a YDC and their alloted pocket money not spent for the duration is a new x box to these kids who just cannot afford such luxuries paid to them in cash when they are released!Get the kids who have been thrown out of school into units immediately not left for 12-18 months at home till they are unmanageable.And finally bring back some good old fashioned discipline into our schools,give teachers back the right to use discipline to control their classrooms,You have tried the way of the "do gooders " we are now reaping the merits of years of that approach.

One of these people was my dear frined Buster! It needs to Stop! RIP Babe!
I Created a video for him and on knife crime, Please have a look for yourselves www.youtube.com/watc
h?v=yns-YRrP8P0
Thankyou
x

www.youtube.com/watc
h?v=yns-YRrP8P0

Please Have a Look!

Thankyou

I don't see how this is so hard to do. We need to bring in tough new laws to protect the public from violent knife or gun crime. Anyone who is caught carrying a knife or gun in the street, at their workplace, at school, where ever should be sentenced to at least 10 - 15 years prison. No court hearing, no mucking about just straight in! Once people realise they'll serve a long sentence for carrying a weapon they'll soon stop. Someone earlier said a life for a life, I agree. Why should a killer get 15 years in prison at taxpayers cost to be released years down the line with the potential to murder, rob or steal again. Too much taxpayers money is spent housing murderers at millions and millions of pounds when they should be ended and forgotten. I'm fed up living in a society where thugs rule the streets and terrorise everyone else. Murder is on the up so we need to crack down before it gets even more out of hand than it already has!

Sadly we do have to start looking at the home life of these people, most problems do start at home when it comes to the youths either we are too trusting and take in every thing they say or not bothered to control these youths. I think that parents need to take a more active role in helping these kids that have gone off the rails direction in life, not leaving it down to other members of the public, they need to find something in life that is worth a challange. It can be done, parents moaning about the youths have no where to go are wrong their are many orginisation which these children can engage in if they took the time to look. But where do the schools come in this they are allowed to dismiss a child from education, but then pass the butt on again, if the child has the wrong support they will end up on the streets, so all schools should have to be looked at before a free hand is given to kick the kids out. Their has always been gangs of youths on our streets, but our goverment has allowed so many different cultures in intergrate without any true leadership on how to manage this. What i feel we need is maybe the army on our streets, we keep being told that our police force is so over worked what do we pay are army for but to go to other countrys which are out of control such as our own country. We are headed for such civil unrest in the country soon we will be needing something to control it, look at Belfast their seem to be less problems their than we have here. I think its about time the goverment wakes up and admit that it is out of control the first one that does gets my vote as they all seem to be pushing the blame around as far as i can see, without trying to address our needs of saftey.

PLEASE don't anyone say they need "understanding" and money spent on their entertainment...

...or worse, that its because they "don't have a father figure" in their lives.

They act the way they do because they are sub-human scumbags. No excuses.

It's simple: 1) youths should stay in education at least until they are 18 and have a job. We need proper vocational training for academically less talented people so that they can compete against educated and often well trained immigrants for jobs. 2) Secondly, and this is where the Government fails, there should be much more incentives for people to get an education and jobs. The government is making the matter worse and worse by incentivising people to stay out of the job market and to "breed for benefits". 3) Tougher policing and punishments, incl life for life. Enough has been said about this.

The only way to change the situation is a whole re education programme coupled with immediate imprisonment for carrying any offensive weapon, even if it is a first offence.
Metal detectors are not the answer as many plastic knives or items could kill,

The police (Not PCSO's )also need to regularly patrol areas where youths congregate,and to regularly visit pubs and clubs to ensure their licences are being complyed with.

The whole "youth problem" dates back to the early 1980's when funding for youth clubs was cut in order to save money.

Please go to the forum and leave some comments there, as Your Lord has.

Please use this unique opportunity to have your comments read by the Home Secretary.

Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott

This business of carrying knives and guns was not in the English psyche - our feral members of society were either imprisoned or National Service put an end to their antics. This has been imported into our society along with many other bad things by minorities, many of them illegally here but still housed and pampered at our expense who have been given priority in everything and by soft touch mainly left wing governments. Now it's all coming home to roost. Everyone is now too frightened to quote the actual statistics that are staring at us in the face for fear of the racist card being played - just say what you see on your screen out loud every time the news is on - there aren't too many English people involved. But that makes me racist doesn't it rather than an Englishman driven out of London by being outnumbered

Kids have nothing to do these days apart from roam the streets. Without sounding racist the immigration policy of the Labour government means that there are more foreign gangs to deal with and im not talking big 30yr old drug gangs im talking 18yr old kids who are trying to make an name for themselves. Just look around Bromley town centre on a Saturday. I feel sorry for the youth of today, being young has never been so hard!

Congratulations to the NewShopper for taking such a positive stance on this matter. The government need to introduce harsher sentences for carrying a gun or knife and ensure the judiciary use these harsher sentences - perhaps by making them mandatory sentences, thus taking away the option of a judge or magistrate giving a ridiculous soft sentence. There'd be an uproar from the liberal judges and magistrates, but these people are unelected and, judging by their performances, totally incapable of doing their job. We also need to immediately scrap the ridiculous Human Rights Act, which is no more than a legal tool of assistance for the criminal fraternity.

We must also be careful though that we don't unnecessarily add to people's concerns by becoming part of the current media/politician-dri
ven frenzy - comments like "We want your ideas on how to stem the free flow of blood on our streets" add to the general fear of the current climate, but don't actually reflect the reality. Ferral youths, gangs and 'street youths' who carry knives are still very much a minority amongst our young people - please don't get caught up in the Evening Standard / Daily Mail type of reporting that paints all of our young people with these generalisations - growing up is hard enough to do without being ostracised.

If the goverment had a bit of backbone and didn't listern to humans rights ect... and took all the TV's, videos, PC's, and all other luxerys away and keep the "lags" locked up most of the time like they used to, maybe prison wouldn't seem so appealing and maybe all these knife and gun killers would think twice about commiting a crime.
Failing that, if they want to fight so much send them out to Irac ect they could fight to there hearts content then, serve our country and may learn how to act like an adult and gain some respect for others. This country will get worse untill the goverment stand up to these scum so they realise crime is not so big after all

I think all this has gone to far to rectify, kids today have no respect for people and they know that they can get away with everything, the teachers, the police, the courts all have to be Politically correct. There is no punishment for them to be scared of. Its cool to hang around in gangs (not), dont use the excuse they bored they have nothing to do, there wasnt much to do when any of us were kids we made our own entertainment, we didnt go around killing people. Films, violent games, and lack of restriction from parents are all to blame. Im worried for my children, now its a case of if they go to school will they come home.

Missy wrote:
If the goverment had a bit of backbone and didn't listern to humans rights ect... and took all the TV's, videos, PC's, and all other luxerys away and keep the "lags" locked up most of the time like they used to, maybe prison wouldn't seem so appealing and maybe all these knife and gun killers would think twice about commiting a crime. Failing that, if they want to fight so much send them out to Irac ect they could fight to there hearts content then, serve our country and may learn how to act like an adult and gain some respect for others. This country will get worse untill the goverment stand up to these scum so they realise crime is not so big after all

I quite agree. If iwas young and unemployed then committing crime is the way to go.Even if there is a remote chance of getting caught then it would be fine going to prison, all your meals,all mod cons( 'scuse the pun) learn a trade or get educated.Prison is no longer a detterent thanks to the Lord Longfords and the mamby pamby PC brigade. Its about time the Brits stood up and said enough is enough. Bring on the General Election!

"Britain Sh@gged"

Luv all comments but at end of day this country is abso sh1t. Im a white british, i sometimes feel ashamed at the fact i never emigrated..

Knife crime will continue and seems to be getting worse by the day, this will be the case as long as there is no suitable deterrent in place.

I feel we societity in general, should identify all of these stupid laws that always allow the criminals to avoid true punishment.

We should then all join and work together in massive numbers to force the hands of the government to get these silly liberal laws changed.

Around a general election would be a good time!

This is some of what Simon Cowell had to say about knife crime on to the Sun I think we all agree he is 100% correct on this topic...

“If the Government and police were as attentive on knives as they are on smoking, speeding and parking, this problem would disappear in five minutes.

“You’ve got restaurant owners terrified now because of the smoking ban, you light up and you’re pounced on – it’s ridiculous.

“If it was up to me, everyone caught with a knife would get an automatic ten-year sentence.

“We wouldn’t tolerate someone walking into our house carrying a knife so why do we put up with people walking down the street with knives?”

With his usual no-nonsense attitude, Simon adds: “There is too much tolerance in Britain. We have to get tough.

Dannii, saw you post above and just watched your video, Thank you x

After any incident like this, we all get angry and look at who to blame. We need to face up to the facts that the current teenage generation has been brought up with parents more interested in watching eastenders and football, visiting boot fairs, visiting B&Q on a sunday and aimlessly wandering around Tesco in track suits, buying ready meals and coke. So this Nintendo- McDonalds teenage generation has not been read stories to, not discovered music that is not in a download chart have had no school or home discipline, have not been shown any culture. Nor have they learned any respect for anything other than possessions like mobile phones and games. It is US that have allowed this to happen and whenever any of these nasty fighting, swearing aggressive, insecure little boys get caught...their mums and dads cannot believe it is their kid that did the deed!
Do you know where your kids are on a Saturday night? Or are you all too busy reading the Argos catalogue and watching Pop Idol to even care...

Mad Earwig wrote:
After any incident like this, we all get angry and look at who to blame. We need to face up to the facts that the current teenage generation has been brought up with parents more interested in watching eastenders and football, visiting boot fairs, visiting B&Q on a sunday and aimlessly wandering around Tesco in track suits, buying ready meals and coke. So this Nintendo- McDonalds teenage generation has not been read stories to, not discovered music that is not in a download chart have had no school or home discipline, have not been shown any culture. Nor have they learned any respect for anything other than possessions like mobile phones and games. It is US that have allowed this to happen and whenever any of these nasty fighting, swearing aggressive, insecure little boys get caught...their mums and dads cannot believe it is their kid that did the deed! Do you know where your kids are on a Saturday night? Or are you all too busy reading the Argos catalogue and watching Pop Idol to even care...

You can blame the parents to a certain extent but i would say the government have more to do with this. The population is booming and the rescources are getting strained and money is getting tight. We moan that our kids play computer games all day but the alternatives are few and far between. F*** the inner cities and the suburbs. Lets all move to the country and let the scum fight it out between them.

Matt wrote:
Kids have nothing to do these days apart from roam the streets. Without sounding racist the immigration policy of the Labour government means that there are more foreign gangs to deal with and im not talking big 30yr old drug gangs im talking 18yr old kids who are trying to make an name for themselves. Just look around Bromley town centre on a Saturday. I feel sorry for the youth of today, being young has never been so hard!

So what was the difference, say, twenty years ago?
Kids have nothing to do, because they choose that.If youth centres are established, they burn them down, for a quick thrill!
With the easy access of computers, activity days,mobiles,educati
on should be a lot easier, than it was then.
You should feel sorry for the youth of past times, who had nothing to do, but still did not resort to stabbings and drug use.

Bring back National Service and apply a disclaimer when the child is enrolled so that parents cannot whinge when there precious 'angel' is locked in a cell overnight or given a beasting for playing up and generally being a nuisance to the rest of the lads and gals. Kids need LOADS of physical activity and mental stimulus to keep them driven and positive and an updated form of National Service will prepare them to a less selfish lifestyle and teach them the value of 'pulling together' as a team and a valuable member of society! They won't have 1 father figure but maybe a dozen and I honestly believe kids these days lack the authority and respect that 'leaders' in a National Service' can offer and impose! If nothing else it will prepare them for an active and positive future, teach self-discipline and will have the double benefit of putting youngsters to good use within their commuity whilst teaching them valuable skills at the same time!

And while I am on a roll here, I think that newcoming youth in this country should also be enrolled into National Service to serve this country as a pre-requisite to citizenship status. All immigrants except those clearly unable should work for a minimum of five years. They should pay taxes before they are entitled to any benefits, free NHS except emergency aid, similar to France's stance. This will ease the disgruntled feelings of our people and show that the government are concerned and active about the improvement of this country. Zero tolerance with knives and guns without licence impose a short sentence for carriers of such offending items and order them to work on a chain gang like in America. This will improve our roads etc. at material cost and in a way charge the offender with the cost of thier crime as they will have their liberty taken away and recieve no wages for their labour. Yes?

One possible solution to this, and several other problems with our disintegrating society, is the re-introduction of National Service.
This is expensive, but could be funded in the following manner:
1) Scrap the Territorial Army.
2) Approach the Underwriters and ask them how much they pay out on vandalism/ life insurance/ theft/ burglary claims (lets call it £4 Billion a year)
split the difference with the Underwriters - take £2 billion off them. Scrap some of the useless Quangos and ineffective schemes.
3) Divert funding from the Benefits system (because there will be a lot less incapacity and job-seekers claims)
4) Scrap the PCSO scheme

- and there is the funding!!
It does seem to me that this Government is unwilling to actually achieve anything (and looks on-course to miss its "raison D'etre" of achieving re-election!)

The benefits of National Service to this country would be numerous and far-reaching:

Providing well rounded healthy young people to the job market.
Disrupting gang culture.
Massively decreasing "low level" crime.
Massively decreasing Benefits payments.
A possible spin-off could be on the imigration front - Make it compulsory for all imigrants to do a spell of National Service before qualifying for National Health etc. ????

I'm sure that there would be many other benefits to lots of different Government Departments and parts of society.
So, I don't accept the argument "It would be too expensive to implement" especially when this Goverment thinks nothing about chucking £50 Billion at a private company (N.R)

And, importantly, would have a positive impact on stabbing/ shooting/ and drink driving statistics on the under 25's. It would also "tick the box" on the Governments "fear of crime and fear of the causes of crime"

www.youtube.com/watc
h?v=yns-YRrP8P0

Please Have a Look!

Thankyou

Go away Danni you are boring us and we are trying to have a discussion.You have already told us the website twice - if we had wanted to look we would have

me, at home - you should learn some manners, your post is a terrible example to young people

dannii is clearly a young person who has had personal experience of a close friend being murdered - personal experience of the very issue being discussed yet you just dismiss her - and clearly she is still very upset by this loss

i've watched her video - it is very good dannii - and in it she has put this messaage -

if you are someone who carries a knife have a think to yourself, imagine it was you and you lost a relative or friend, think of the pain you would go through and then feel what we feel

dannii has put her time and effort into trying to do something positive and i think you should give her much credit for that, and encourage her and those who do such, instead of being rude and grossly insensitve

Cassie -firstly i don't carry a knife and secondly i have lost someone and so know what it feels like.We don't need to be told 3 times about a website or a video as i said before if we wanted to look at it we could.I am not rude and i am not insensitive,i just don't want to read the same comments over & over

Cassie, Thanks for that message, it was really sweet of you and secondly thankyou for sticking up for me.
& low life 'me' i think you are the biggest and rudest dickhead ever! So now your gonna give it all that 'i lost somebody' well frankly i dont have any sympathy for you! Im just trying to show people how much pain knife puts people through, so if you have lost somebody to a stabbing then maybe i might listen to your comments! The video is to keep my friend in memory of everybody so i dont give a toss what you say.....Im not rude and intensive but i dont want your snide little comments!

Danni - your childish swearing just high lights the sort of person you are - i am entitled to comment as much as i want but i don't feel i need to swear or insult anybody.As for your loss- you are not the only person who has lost somebody in a stabbing.I lost somebody in a stabbing but he was innocent - he wasn't in a gang terrorising a terminally ill women with a brain tumour and 2 elderly people in their 80's.He didn't throw bricks through anyone's living room window or smash anyone's car and he didn't go with a gang of yob's and committ arson on anyones property.He he didn't participate in beating up a disabled man & his carer while they were waiting for a train.Not all victims of stabbing's are entirely innocent,you have heard the saying 'what goes round comes round'.

firstly i don't carry a knife

i didn't say you did, my point was that dannii had taken time and bother to try to do something to stop violent crime

secondly i have lost someone and so know what it feels like

seems strange to me that you say you've lost someone yet don't understand why someone would feel very strongly about trying to stop knife/violent crime, strange that then you have no empathy with her determination to push an anti-violence message

We don't need to be told 3 times about a website or a video as i said before if we wanted to look at it we could.

as above and enthusiasm to stop violence should be valued more highly than the 'bother' of simply scrolling past a very short post

I am not rude and i am not insensitive

you was in your post

i just don't want to read the same comments over & over

aw diddums, her posts were hardly 'war and peace', in fact they were just a few words -

what is more important, the 'bother' to you of reading a handful of words or trying to stop violence crime?

what is more important, the 'bother' to you of reading a handful of words or encouraging young people to be enthusiastic about stopping violent crime?

Once again there is someone in this community who seems to think they no someone inside out when they dont! You never knew my friend and to say he done all that when you dont no him at all and your blatently wrong! so why dont you grow up a little! All of them things must be bothering you in your little mind! I would keep an eye on your son, he maybee up to no good!

Thanks for your support Cassie! It means alot x

www.youtube.com/watc


h?v=yns-YRrP8P0

Please Have a Look!

Thankyou

me wrote:
Danni - your childish swearing just high lights the sort of person you are - i am entitled to comment as much as i want but i don't feel i need to swear or insult anybody.As for your loss- you are not the only person who has lost somebody in a stabbing.I lost somebody in a stabbing but he was innocent - he wasn't in a gang terrorising a terminally ill women with a brain tumour and 2 elderly people in their 80's.He didn't throw bricks through anyone's living room window or smash anyone's car and he didn't go with a gang of yob's and committ arson on anyones property.He he didn't participate in beating up a disabled man & his carer while they were waiting for a train.Not all victims of stabbing's are entirely innocent,you have heard the saying 'what goes round comes round'.

Well you should start to pay attention to Danni coz their is also a saying it goes Stick and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me. We need people to express what pain all these killings have done what ever way helps at least she is not sitting their saying oh well its not my problem. Why are you venting all you anger on someone which is trying to help, this is the problem we have people screaming no-ones doing anything, have you thought about given up your time to do something constructive to help these youths move forward. I now no you thinking why should I, but unless we all work together to help the situation nothing will change because it take's all of us Parents,Teachers, and all that are involed with kids on a daly basis to try to turn these kids around if it is possable it has to be worth a try. Maybe just maybe if you were to take the time to watch this video you may start to understand other people's feelings more instead of thinking just of yourself

your childish swearing just high lights the sort of person you are

your rudeness and gross insensitivity just highlights the sort of person you are

it was your original, totally unnecessary, rudeness which started it - not only are you showing a terrible example to young people but you don't like the taste of your own medicine

me wrote:
Danni - your childish swearing just high lights the sort of person you are - i am entitled to comment as much as i want but i don\'t feel i need to swear or insult anybody.As for your loss- you are not the only person who has lost somebody in a stabbing.I lost somebody in a stabbing but he was innocent - he wasn\'t in a gang terrorising a terminally ill women with a brain tumour and 2 elderly people in their 80\'s.He didn\'t throw bricks through anyone\'s living room window or smash anyone\'s car and he didn\'t go with a gang of yob\'s and committ arson on anyones property.He he didn\'t participate in beating up a disabled man & his carer while they were waiting for a train.Not all victims of stabbing\'s are entirely innocent,you have heard the saying \'what goes round comes round\'.

to me...
firstly i don`t think that you have read all the news on julian buster knight if you have then you would know that he was not in any gangs did not go out looking for trouble .... and for all the comments that you put on this comments above was not him. i was there in the court and heard everything that was said ... buster was a innocent young lad ..and i will not sit here and have a slanging match with you ... buster was my son`s friend and did not have any weapons or go out and look for trouble...for you to sit there and say wot goes around comes around your just behind the people that carry knife`s and thats what we all want to stop......very very anrgy...

Danni_x wrote:
www.youtube.com/watc h?v=yns-YRrP8P0 Please Have a Look! Thankyou

well done danni

the video you done for buster was very special and thats why we all want knife crime to stop ....

there are alot of people behind you...

I am so hurt that so many young peoples lives are being taken so casualy, its so apparent now that a life meas nothing to young people the same way a 17 year girl can walk into an abortion clinic and get rid of her un-born child the same way these kids run into peoples houses with guns and knives and MURDER someone in there sleep. These kids need to face the reality of life they cant expect to ROLL on the streets with an knife cs the same knife will turn back on them. I cant stand the fact that no one is taking acountability 4 the horrific events taking place round the corner from more or less everyone.

we need a huge investment in our children and young people to even begin to tackle this problem. Read the article by the director of Kids Company (Times Online) it is the best explanation I have seen about how to address youth violence. I would also like to see an open police station in Sidcup and borough wide "ambassadors" like thay have in Sheffield who patrol areas and can mediate until police arrive.

Another youth has been stabbed in Greenwich within the last hour, it seems to be getting worse.

I have read everybody’s comments on this subject and they are all doing the same thing.
Blaming the next generation.
It is the same old story, blame it on the kids, blame the government, blame the parents.
Kids have nothing to do so we blame them.
When these kids become adults, they will be blaming the kids of the next generation.

It is about time the adults of today take responsibility for their kids actions.
Ask where there going.
Ask what they are doing.
Ask whom they are with.
Check what they are carrying, knife or no kniife.

Then the Adults blame each other and the government because of the kids it is a vicious circle.
HOWEVER,
There is minority of British society cannot be bothered. “IT’S NOT MY PROBLEM” Attitude.

USA HAS THE GUN.
UK HAS THE KNIFE.
BRING BACK STOP AND SEARCH...

IT IS TIME WE ALL TOOK RESPONSIBILITY.

Martin wrote:
One possible solution to this, and several other problems with our disintegrating society, is the re-introduction of National Service.
This is expensive, but could be funded in the following manner:
1) Scrap the Territorial Army.
2) Approach the Underwriters and ask them how much they pay out on vandalism/ life insurance/ theft/ burglary claims (lets call it £4 Billion a year)
split the difference with the Underwriters - take £2 billion off them. Scrap some of the useless Quangos and ineffective schemes.
3) Divert funding from the Benefits system (because there will be a lot less incapacity and job-seekers claims)
4) Scrap the PCSO scheme

- and there is the funding!!
It does seem to me that this Government is unwilling to actually achieve anything (and looks on-course to miss its "raison D'etre" of achieving re-election!)

The benefits of National Service to this country would be numerous and far-reaching:

Providing well rounded healthy young people to the job market.
Disrupting gang culture.
Massively decreasing "low level" crime.
Massively decreasing Benefits payments.
A possible spin-off could be on the imigration front - Make it compulsory for all imigrants to do a spell of National Service before qualifying for National Health etc. ????

I'm sure that there would be many other benefits to lots of different Government Departments and parts of society.
So, I don't accept the argument "It would be too expensive to implement" especially when this Goverment thinks nothing about chucking £50 Billion at a private company (N.R)

And, importantly, would have a positive impact on stabbing/ shooting/ and drink driving statistics on the under 25's. It would also "tick the box" on the Governments "fear of crime and fear of the causes of crime"

I couldn't have put that better myself Martin. Well done. I will just add for BOYS and GIRLS

Thanks for your support Cassie!

you're very welcome, good for you taking time to try to do something positive :)

firstly this site is to try and stop arguments and war that turn into death. and all i have read is arguments i think there are some childish people on here that need to go back to school themselves. if Danni has a video and wants to keep posting it then let her keep you sad and perfetic comments to yourself. ok now back to what this website is for,im only 21 and really think people should start listening to the younger generation its rubbish when people say kids carry knifes because they feel they have to,they carry knifes because they want to. its got to the point were kids carry knifes and guns because its become cool well lets stop and think there no it aint bloody cool never has been and never will be. now how to stop this maybe by the police doing there job, since i was walking the streets the police have always been interested in giving kids stick for climbing in to a park when its closed or spitting on the floor which yes is nasty but all the time there out picking on the kids that are just being kids, another kid or young adult is being killed. my brother was beaten up a few months ago to the point of nearly having to have plastic surgery so we went to the police did it the right way and the boy who did it didnt even get a fine.and no it was not even his first offence. there is the problem they start with there fist they get away with that and then they keep climbing the ladder until they have killed someone. this all comes down to people not talking when the war starts on there street or their estate.that is your home sometimes even your family speak up we need to hear you. at 14 i can remember a girl pulling a blade on me at a under 18s disco, i was lucky i walked away but others are losing their lives. we all need to come together, i have never been one for keeping my mouth shut and yes sometimes that aint the best but im not willing to sit back and watch this until god for bid its my friend or family member. people that even say the words im going to shoot you or im going to stab you should be put in prison and left there because half of them would never think of even using them words again let alone doing it. it should be like saying the word bomb in an airport because we dont need terrorist coming to bomb us we have our own walking the streets.

There is minority of British society cannot be bothered. “IT’S NOT MY PROBLEM” Attitude....IT IS TIME WE ALL TOOK RESPONSIBILITY

the problem is though that there are, and always will be, some people who won't take responsibility, whose moral code is self-interest not what is morally right

govt must take responsibility for the moral lead...which is what most people expect and want the govt to do

So much to say but where to start!!
It is time the goverement allowed parents teachers police the power to deal with the teenagers without fear of reprisals.They need to know when the do wrong they will be punished,and no they cannot start preaching there human rights because all the time they act like children and try to bring fear into every day, life they have no rights.When they respect people people will respect them.

Parents teach them manners and start turning the telly OFF at meal times and BE a family, sit around the table and talk.It always worked so it would again.Bring rules in at home again please before we have a world no-one wants to live in.

Stop super markets selling any drink after certain hours (we always did have that rule)and never on a Sunday.Make it really hard for them to get the **** drink.All night pubs for drinking does NOT work and the clubs should also close at a certain hour.The knife crime IS due to drink and drugs, deal with it NOW.Proper sentances if caught with a knife(boot camps would be good) and if using it throw the book at them.

If just one judge had one of there family knifed do you really think the culbrit would get away with it!!!!

Lets try and let our teenages see that its ok if they must to swear when together but when in public no way,this however also applies to some of the older generation as well!!

Lets get a dress code again it all helps when put to gether even though you may think it funny.

The only reason they are like this is that they have no diration at all and so need our help we are letting them down.

If someone famous is seen with drugs arrest them and charge them, just like they would you and me if we where caught, now that would be a good role model!! It would be saying "I do not care who you are you CANNOT get away with abusing the system".

The do gooders must take a run and jump because it is them that are hurting our children by jumping in to save them when all it does is hurt them more,what seems good at 13 is not great when they are 18!!

If a child of 14 has a child do not give them a flat or money,make them live with there parents (give the parents alitte extra cash to help).There are exceptions to every rule but a child who has a child cannot bring them up as they have not learnt much themselfs.

Must go as I could keep this rant up all night but so wish I had some control in this life as I know I could help in some way or other,but no its all in the lap of FOOLS.

yours sincerely
KJFederl

Dawn - in reply to your comment did i mention the name Julian Buster Knight ??? no i didn't.I wonder why you would think that my comments referred to this person.

me wrote:
Dawn - in reply to your comment did i mention the name Julian Buster Knight ??? no i didn't.I wonder why you would think that my comments referred to this person.

FYI when someone has been killed, the murderer's friends like to fabricate stories about the person who was killed asthough they were a bad person in an attempt to condone their friends behaviour.

This is exactly what happened in Buster's case, the murderers friends tried to tarnish Buster's name in order to defend the fact that their friend went out and killed someone.

If you look at boys behaviour when they are growing up then all boys do silly things like smash up bus shelters or phone boxes. Graffitti walls, torment people. It used to go on when I was young, when my father was young and when his father was young.

Does it mean that these boys deserved to be killed?

Lets start with the basics really, BRING BACK A MARY WHITEHOUSE. All violent games, videos, and tv programmes should be banned.What people (and I say people because its not just teenagers here adults play, and watch these vile things to) feed thier minds or their children with this rotten stuff, would you feed your self a stinking, mouldy,maggott ridden pork chop for dinner No, because it would affect your health, the mind is no different, what you feed into it is no different. We have alot of youths running around our city streets living out video/games that they play, except this is no game, and you cant stop and replay. The Justice system in this country is letting each and every individual down YOU AND ME. Whats the answer? NO HUMAN HAS IT.

I agree that something needs to be done, but arent we forgetting thats its not only kids comitting knife and gun crime- its adults too!!

Im talking to you -
I said 'did i mention the name Julian Buster Knight' and the answer is NO i didn't,why would my comments make you think i was referring to this person?? All i said in my original comment is that not everyone who has been murdered is innocent.Some people do terrible things and i am not talking about graffiti and kicking bus shelter's,this results in come backs from the original victims.When a person is killed there are 2 sides to the story but the media only want us to hear the details of the person who has lost their life.Every time a person is murdered the press portray them as saints - 'they were going to be an arcitect,they were going to university they went to church every day'.I am not saying that anyone deserves to be murdered and i would not comment unless i knew fully both sides of the story.

'me at home' i think you should keep your pathetic little comments to yourself as they are not interesting and no one cares.

The Crime rate in this country is an EPIDEMIC! I don't know what the MPs are doing in the parliament. if they spend 4 hours in the Parliament, 3 of those 4 hours should be dedicated to solving these crimes. because their children are not affected, they don't know how it feels. most of them are either gay, single, living alone or having their children live in a controlled bubble environment because they can afford it.
What needs to be done is this: If anyone kills or attempts to kill anyone, they should be put to death straight away. NO MATTER THEIR AGE Anyone old enough to kill a human being is old enough to die! No mercy for the merciless!!! Even such death would be too easy for them. A special prison should be built for murderers and when they are caught, they should be thrown in that prison and left to die by starvation so that they have enough time to suffer like their victim did. After they are dead, their bodies should be used to feed the dogs or as manure. They don't even deserved to be buried.
These stupid, cowardly murderers have nothing to fear as it is now. by the time the Government takes these drastic measures, they will know that there are consequences no matter how young they are and they will sit tight. It is simple! By the time about 10 murderers are killed themselves by starvation, EVERYONE will see the crime rates drop like a brick! Britain needs to give more power and rights to parents, because these children don't even respect their parents. Can you imagine children being taught to call the police if smacked by their parents? Even the bible says "Spare the Rod and spoil the child". Children who grow up knowing they can't be punished by their parents ultimately grow up not to fear the Law of the Country. SIMPLE!!!
And all you parents who need parenting yourself, SET GOOD EXAMPLES for your children! most rotten children we see today are a mirror of what their parents are truly like. You see a 2 and a half year old child using swear words, where do you think he/she got it from? his parent/s of course! Children are like sponges, they soak in what their see and hear from their parents.
Especially you single mothers out there. I am a mother myself, but please live a life worthy of honor and praise that your children may follow. Don't live your life like a home based prostitute/drunk. you are single, but it is not an excuse to mess up and mess your children up.
As for the Government, make it easier for couples to stay together! Make it easier for families to live, especially married couples. So that they don't have to work day and night so that they barely have time to invest in the children. PLEASE!!!!!!! Break the family, break the society and hence the country. The Government has been breaking the family with it's policies. It is hard for the husband to work and support his family, the wife has to work long hours too. What happens to the children then? They are left hanging, bored....find someone to drink with, smoke, have illicit sex, join gangs, pick fights, kill people.
This is the Country where I will hear a mother say to me that she is worse off taking her partner back into the home, because it is costing her more and she having to pay for everything through her nose and work longer and longer. And she has a 1 and half year old child. CAN YOU IMAGINE! Now she tells me that she is seriously considering kicking her husband out so that she can get benefits and work less and spend more quality time with her child. That poor child will now grow up without her dad for no good reason. Every child needs a father and a mother otherwise women will get pregnant without a sperm. If it takes a Sperm to make, then it will take a sperm to raise! BUILD OUR HOMES BACK AGAIN!!!
Bottom line, ANYONE; man, woman, old or young who kills a human being should be SENTENCED TO DEATH!!!

me at home
Go back to your murdering,violent "friends"

'me at home' have you heard the saying - "if you havent got anything nice to say dont say anything at all"? obviously not... you are merely on here to have a row and upset people. why dont you just close down for the day and return to your boring sad little life...

Tyra,Katie & M - i can see i have upset you all & i wonder why - i have hit a nerve somewhere.And as for 'keep your pathetic little comments to yourself as they are not interesting and no one cares'.You obviously do care and they obviously are interesting otherwise why are you bothering to reply.I will close down and go back to my sad little life (not) when i am ready and not when you order me to.

me at home
pathetic...grow up!

I find the whole thing worrying, I have a young boy and fear for him growing up in this country. Something needs to be done and quickly. The problem with imprisonment is that the young boys who commit these crimes will just think they are "hard" by being sent to prison and I feel they may think it will give them "street cred"

he wasn't in a gang terrorising a terminally ill women with a brain tumour and 2 elderly people in their 80's.He didn't throw bricks through anyone's living room window or smash anyone's car and he didn't go with a gang of yob's and committ arson on anyones property?????

These are the quote's that they murders familey and friends were accusing julian knight of and trying to condone his murder.

If you wasn't speaking about Julian Knight then who????

The reason people are getting touchy maybe because they were good friend of his and are now trying to do what they can to support getting knives of tthe streets.

I am the aunt of Buster Knight, yet again his family and friends have to endure the despicable lies spewed by friends of the violent thug Stelios Paraschakis who brutally murdered Buster.

The truth is that Buster was never in any gang, in fact one of the group he was with that night was a good friend of Stelios Paraschakis and his family - the truth is that Paraschakis had a long ongoing personal, tit-for-tat feud with another of the group.

Buster never started any fire nor was he there when the fire was started, nor did he beat up anyone, he wasn't a fighter at all, he never got into fights and he never got into any trouble. He was a quiet boy, content with his life, he was very popular and everyone who knew him said he was always polite. None of the group he was with had any weapons on them and none of them fought back when violently attacked with weapons.

Below are examples of the nature of some of the family and friends of murderer Stelios Paraschakis, this is what they are supporting and this is what Buster's family is campaigning to stop happening on our streets and why we welcome the News Shopper campaign -

Buster never did any harm at all to anyone including Stelios Paraschakis and his family, including Paraschakis’s mother Teresa Beverley.

Teresa Beverley got Parashakis to the airport within an hour and a half of the murder so he could flee the country to evade justice, she then lied to the police investigating the murder of a 16-year-old, she always refused to admit her guilt and instead played the system to avoid justice, and she, like Paraschakis and Curran, never showed one shred of remorse.

Buster never did any harm at all to any of Stelios Paraschakis's friends, including Amy Curran who led the surprise, violent, armed attack with another violent thug - whom Curran refused to name so that he could evade justice and continue walking the streets a danger to everyone.

This surprise, violent armed attack left one of Buster's friends scarred for life above his eye. Also, Buster's skull was fractured by a heavy blow from behind to the back of his head, that cowardly thug gave Buster no chance at all to defend himself.

Several other friends of Stelios Paraschakis and Amy Curran, at least six, conveniently turned up at the scene of the violent, armed attack, the court heard that two of these, Kane Stewart and Kelly Tran, despite knowing Paraschakis had severely injured or killed someone, drove to Lesnes Abbey where Paraschakis and Curran had gone to hide from the police and then took them to a flat in Woolwich, neither was prosecuted although they admitted their actions ie assisting an offender.

Another friend of Paraschakis who had been at the scene did not turn up at the Old Bailey to give evidence.

Stelios Paraschakis had armed himself with TWO knives , he admitted in court he had ‘selected’ them. Paraschakis disposed of the knives and other evidence, he fled the country to try to evade justice, he never helped the police and the murder weapon and other evidence has never been found.

The Judge at the Old Bailey said the attack was "planned and premeditated", he said to Stelios Paraschakis -

"This was a cowardly attack on an unarmed youth who had done you no harm. What you did was to select him because he was vulnerable and an easy target within the group. His loss has destroyed the lives of his family.”.

The Judge also said that Amy Curran had ‘lied and lied’ and that "the carrying of knives in a public place is a menace which blights our streets and makes law-abiding people fearful.".

Enough is Enough march and petition to Gordon Brown, organised by John Johnson, his son Kevin was fatally stabbed in May 2007.

The petition is calling for life to mean life behind bars for murderers, everyone who supports this/tougher sentencing is welcome to come along to show their support/add their voice.

Wednesday 11 June 2008
Assemble at Whitehall Place, London between 12 noon - 1 pm
March to Downing Street starts at 1 pm.

"On Wed 11th June 08 we are meeting in London...We will assemble between 1200 & 1300 and after a few words etc we will march to Downing Street to present our petition to Gordon Brown or a representative."

Link to the petition
www.sunderlandecho.c
om/CustomPages/Custo
mPage.aspx?pageid=70
963

As a friend of Busters, i will be at the march to support for him!
Rip Buster

I think the parents of the killers have a huge responsibility here as well as the government and the justice system. I am Eddie Jones sister and endured a week of absolute torture sitting at the Old Bailey watching the scumbag squirm out of it. He ahd prevoiusly attacked soeone in the same manner and had been relaesed from prison months earlier. His defence came up witha heartbreaking story of how he was destined to a footballer before a knee injury and how he suffered becaus of this. Eddies situation and aspirations were not read out. He also claimed self defence - even though the CCTV showed otherwise. He had months to prepare for his trial - including endless sessions watching the CCTV. He managed to persuade a jury that the parts that were incoherent were my brother being aggressive - no other footage showed this. The jury were bored and the judge even dismissed a relevant question from the jury ie, why wasn't the 2nd attacker before him as a witness!! He dismissed this question as it apparently would have lengthened the case and complicated things!! So in short, Danny Vella got away scot free because our justice system is crap! He is now working with young kids from his area and has been awarded a Princes Trust Award - My brother is in the ground. So it really doesn't matter who you kill or how you kill them - if you have had a tough up bringing it will be justified by bureaucrats sitting in a big plush office who think that crimes like theft are just as bad.

I have just looked at the poll and see that most people are voting for the return of National Service. Personally I think this is a good idea for the mindless idiots who disrupt lessons at school and terrorise with gangs outside of it. Many have no respect for anybody. However, as a parent of a teenage son and two older step-daughters I do not want my son to go to National Service. He has been brought up to respect people and does well at Grammar school, and behaves himself all the time. Why should he have to go? I think the main problem with this country lies with lack of parental responsibility and the police. When I was young you saw police presence on the streets a lot whereas now you don't. If the sun is shining I say "bet we see some police walking the streets today" and sure enough we always do. Usually two of them walking along having a chat in their short-sleeved shirts. I think there needs to be more discipline at the top. I have had to call Bexleyheath Police Station about 3 times over the past year because of anti-social behaviour with teenagers in the close where I live. They have never come out. This is why Bexley's crime figures are so low. The police do not attend call outs and so do not have to make a crime report. Therefore figures are low. Cunning, or what? The last time I was so outraged that I contacted our disgraced M.P. Derek Conway although he wasn't much help either. We had a few exchanges of e-mails but in the end I think he gave up trying to get Bexleyheath Police to contact me which is what I wanted. I wanted to know why then NEVER respond to our call outs. I can understand that they are sometimes too busy but surely it should be followed up at some time. I even requested by letter that the Chief contact me (and I understand that they are supposed to respond within 10 days) but he/she never did. Other people I have spoken to have had similar problems with Bexleyheath police. If things do not improve perhaps it is time for people to take matters into their own hands and form vigilante groups. Also parents need to be accountable for their offspring's actions. If they started to put the parents in prison or made them do the community service I think things would change. I work in a secondary school and often with a badly behaved child you can tell after meeting the parent(s) where the problems come from.

I think this country needs to stop talking and start doing. We are letting our young people down. How sad is it when decent teenagers are fearful to go out. If I was a youngster now I would leave this country. Something must be done and quick.

whilst reading this weeks newsshopper i notice on page 5 a male stating 'it is an epidemic and needs to be stopped if you cannot do it then get the Army out'(Bar didnt ask for help)Then on page 6 is the answer to the problem (Battle over Police booze scheme)stiff resistance against police attempts to sign up all licenced premises to Challenge 21.

Are the people of bexley serious about fighting crime-- if so then lets give the police thier powers back and support them. How often does a parent complain that thier child was searched by police when they should be encouraging it as potential murderers dont usually advertise they are carrying a weapon and police will have to search them to find it. i doubt the knife carrying youth look any different from your or my children.

I say remove the Human Rights Act that does nothing but protect the criminal and tie police hands behind thier backs, Increase the sentence for possession of a knife to 2yrs no cautions or second chances if they have a knife on the street without good reason then lock them up, THEY ARE THE DANGER TO OUR CHILDREN. Go back to the old days where police could search someone on a gut feeling without fear of complaint or prosecution.

A vast majority of this towns youth are good law abiding citizens and are the future of our community, please lets help them make it to adulthood by getting the government we voted in (except the PM who has yet to be voted in)to change the laws accordingly and then support them.

Karen, I think that it shouldn't be compulsory for all teenagers to do National Service. The ones who take their education seriously and leave School and go into college or apprenticeships or work should be left alone. It should only be for those who have chosen to spend their School life disrupting everyone else and wasting their opportunity of an education. Then leaving School with the intent of sitting around doing nothing but getting into trouble. Then when they reach 18 they should be sent to a bootcamp environment for their own benefit and the benefit of society.

I do so agree with you Karen, its the parents of these children that need to be brought to book.
Bexelyheath Police station were do we start with that one, I called the police a with regards to a matter in my Close about 1 month ago as a group of youths were holding a girl and she looked very distrested, after around 15 min the police called me to say they had found youths in the area but they didnt look like a problem, what happened to the girl i will never know but having the call from the police made me feel as if i were wasting their time.
But even if their were a few large groups in the area my area is a dispersal zone and should not have been together in large groups anyway. Were does the public fit into helping someone in distress as i felt like doing with that child, I felt as if i had done something wrong when i got the call back the way i was talked to that night will not stop me doing it again if i felt the need, but how many other people have just given up.
I can understand the police in one way as they are seeing it on a day to day basis.
But this shouldn't be happening, like you seid Karen this country needs to stop talking and moaning about the way things are and think about taking an active role in doing things, I do not however agree with Vigilante systems as i do feel that many people not party to activities such as this would be harmed by it.
Also people need to give some sort of support to the youths that do come away from gangs as most dont see past what they are doing, if something to challange is put in front of them maybe Just maybe it will save them from a life of crime or even death.
Our main problem is the way our children can walk around anywhere and buy drugs, Now that and drink is the route of all these evil things these youths are getting into, I would and have shopped Drug dealers and would so again if it saved someone from being hooked on the Cr.p , but thats another thing people turn a blind eye to my advise would be IF YOU NO SOMEONE SHOP THEM and on that subject i will close.
Another message to Karen my best wishes are with you on your march I do hope all goe's well iam only sorry that I can not be with you all.

You people disgust me. Maybe you should just keep to your "Daily Mail" and leave the talk to the civilised members of society. It's not about knife crime, or violence or the media it's about -poverty- pure and simple.
Many of you should remember why we got rid of the death sentence in the first place.
You need to look at the big picture.
Violence has always, and will always exist, nothign will change that; especially not vile comments from ultra-right keyboard commandos.

Jebus wrote:
You people disgust me. Maybe you should just keep to your "Daily Mail" and leave the talk to the civilised members of society. It's not about knife crime, or violence or the media it's about -poverty- pure and simple. Many of you should remember why we got rid of the death sentence in the first place. You need to look at the big picture. Violence has always, and will always exist, nothign will change that; especially not vile comments from ultra-right keyboard commandos.

You may well remember then in the day when their was the Death Sentence That Poverty was Poverty, how can you use that word in this country as it is.
What happens now if you have no money,
Your rent gets paid.
Food money to eat.
Money for fags and drink.
Its called Income Support.
You would never be left in Poverty to the true strengh of the Word. So what are you saying ok sell drugs because you need more money, Greed is the word.
What are we suppose to say then 'oh well violence has all ways be around carry on with what your doing it'. Their are a few of us who at least no who we are, i don't give a toss about what paper you think i read, but don't sit their saying we are talking vile comments. It only makes people sick if they are happy with the way things are running it's called self satisfaction.Money Money Money
So your comments maybe needed to be look at their is no such thing as poverty the people in the country may strugle a hell of a lot but not poverty thats why half the world are lining up on our doorstep.

Jebus,take that chip off your shoulder,people who are violent are usually nasty,self-centred bullies who lack empathy for others,they do not care for anyone else but themselves.
If these violent people thought for one minute that they would get the same done back to them when caught then most wouldn't do it,their egos are such that they think they will get away with it and even if they do get sent to prison,their lives aren't so bad because our prisons are like youth clubs with playstations and dvds to hand while their victims are still suffering,infact rather than our prisons being a deterrent,criminals are trying to break back in!
We need to look again at the whole system and make sure that crime doesn't pay.

I think it might be a good idea starting with the National Curfew as it could filter out some of the people with the go to hell attitude for starters, I for one would welcome it as i'am sick of my son saying his mates are allowed out later. It will show what sort of parents are making a stand and what sort of home life some of these youths come from, as most of us are aware some are from homes where no-one gives a toss what their kids are up to. With that in mind it can then be followed by stonger sentences for the one's which are trying to laugh at the system, if be it the parents of the out on control youth.
The police hand out ABC to youths but with what actions do they follow up the reasons to which they were given. It is only worth the paper that it is writen on. From what i can see it only allows one warning after another to what length do they need to go to before any real punishment is handed out. As a parent it would hurt me greatly if i were to be put in front of the courts and told because of my childs behaviour that iam a bad parent, so punish them all in one way and i bet you will see a reduced list of crimes which youths are getting arrested for then all other crimes which need major attention can be looked at on a high level to which needs be.

This country has gone mad. A society living in fear.
I too knew Busta and he was one of the good guys, never had a bad word to say about anyone.
Knives need to be taken off the streets and it needs to start at home with the parents, that's if they can tear themselves away from the telly/pub/drugs. Kids need to be set examples and if the only examples they are being set is that it is ok to do drugs, get drunk, sit on your backside and get money from the taxpayer then they will follow that lead.
Cut benefits for a start and make these lazy gits get off their backsides and work for a living.
I am sick of hearing unemployed people saying they can't wait till they get paid, PAID!!!!! They think sitting on their bums is a job?
Attitudes need to change and all the while the government and authorities make it easy for them to duck out of their responsibilites to contribute to decent society they will.
I am bored of hearing that tired old mantra "I have had a hard life", most people have a hard life/tough upbringing but they don't go out looking for people to rob or kill or fight.
Too many excuses being made for the poor little darlings, awwww bless, I think not!!!!

RESPONSIBILITY FOR ONES OWN ACTIONS.

Jebus, you are an idiot.

So endeth the lesson.

Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott

I don't think a national curfew is the answer. How would that be policed?

Capital Punishment won't work because of the dictations of the human rights brigade and the European Court of Justice etc.

Funding for more youth facilities may have a slight affect but the issue is more about respect of one another and I think you will find that wherever youth congregate they will occasionally fight, and there will still be knife crimes etc. Some areas will simply not work with this scheme because of the already existing gang culture.

Parenting lessons may help if somebody actually knows the correct tried and tested way of dealing with teens. I don't think so.

National Service seems the best answer to me. It gives the kids something else to focus on, ie fitness levels, communication skills, coordination and team work. Self discipline and respect and consideration for others. Also and importantly they could be taught skills which will enable them to become a more employable generation.

Im talking to you wrote:

me wrote: Dawn - in reply to your comment did i mention the name Julian Buster Knight ??? no i didn't.I wonder why you would think that my comments referred to this person.

FYI when someone has been killed, the murderer's friends like to fabricate stories about the person who was killed asthough they were a bad person in an attempt to condone their friends behaviour. This is exactly what happened in Buster's case, the murderers friends tried to tarnish Buster's name in order to defend the fact that their friend went out and killed someone. If you look at boys behaviour when they are growing up then all boys do silly things like smash up bus shelters or phone boxes. Graffitti walls, torment people. It used to go on when I was young, when my father was young and when his father was young. Does it mean that these boys deserved to be killed?

FYI I didnt smash up phone boxes or slag people off. If you did when you were young and your dad did before you then you come from a classy family, its people like you defending bad behaviour as just wot kids do (SIC) that are half the problem if one of my boys smashed anything up he would get a clump and not be going out for a while. I suggest you do similar. DUH !!!!

I wonder how many of us, would turn up, for a peaceful march to the powers that be?
It is all well and good, sitting at home, at the safe zone of our computers, but to actually make a difference, we need numbers to act.
I would if others were willing.

Mark wrote:
I wonder how many of us, would turn up, for a peaceful march to the powers that be? It is all well and good, sitting at home, at the safe zone of our computers, but to actually make a difference, we need numbers to act. I would if others were willing.

You are so right, it is about time we all stopped talking about what should be done and put our words into action, something needs to be done and as you say we need numbers i would never have dream of going on a march but will now join these parents which are going, I have never lost anyone to knife crime but thank to god have come close to it.
My son was a lucky one not once but twice so far in his teenage years.
Something needs to be done NOW and us sitting here as you say in our safe zone is not doing a thing.
So I will also appeal to any parents that feel strongly enough if possable to make the march and make a difference

I have just been checking the news and came across this...

http://www.thesun.co
.uk/sol/homepage...

It is yet another sad sad example of how this country is going/gone down the pan.

Lads like this just need dealing with, but it never happens and so they just become really arrogant, cocky little so and so's (to keep it polite).

It is the Police and the Governments responsibility to deal with creatures like this but time and time again they fail to do anything, Unless of course someone gets killed.

YES you can blame the Parents, Even the schools for a person growing up with little or no respect.

BUT the moment anyone brandishes/uses a knife (or other weapon) in public it is the joint responsibility of the POLICE & GOVERNMENT to PROTECT us all.

It was the story about the 12 year old with a knife, but the link dont post.

I'm shocked that so many people have voted for capital punishment. How ridiculous. If you look at countries which have the death penalty, for example, those states in America where it is implemented, I think you will find that a high level of violent crime still exists. I also find the support for compulsory national service saddening. Apparently a lot of Bromley News Shopper readers want to take Britain back to the 1950s, when 'everything was better' and since when 'everything has gone down the pan'. Everything was not better then - wide parts of the community suffered due to inequality.


I think the march is a great, modern idea. The more the community mobilises itself against violence, the wider the message that it is not tolerable will be spread.

Educate the parents. Its simple. Most parents do not take enough interest in their chldren to know where they are and what they do. most are so wrapped up in their own problems their children are left to fend for themselves.
Most of the perpertrators are young kids with a vibe that they are owed a living, something to prove, they want to be seen as the hardest of them all, then the next one does and so on.
What can you do? we live in a broken society, that the government must take the blame for. made easy for couples to split and not make the effort anymore.
I do blame the home lives, people who sit and begrudge getting out there and making a difference. None of them actually care.....and the worst thing is, its NEVER their kids lying in the mortuary. Bring back capital punishment and deter them. Theres no deterent. Most of these youngsters have a better standard of life inside, than they do out! Regular meals, gym, socialising about their latest conquests. All this softness and human rights bull makes me so angry.
Capital punishment is all it can be. Death Row.
Any thing else would be too good for them.

There is so much anger out there and it shows in many of these posts. Just one generation ago it was all love and peace, now it's all about hate, misrule, violent crime, murder of our children. The people who in their time made the biggest impact for peace are people like Gandhi, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mendela - and they used words, not weapons, to fight for a better world. "The pen is mightier than the sword". We need a politician brave enough to forget the political correctness and to fight for family values. We need zero tolerance and tough convictions (including hard physical labour, not just a holiday in a comfy young offenders institution)for possession of any weapon - not only knives, no weapons of any kind should be carried. And if parents were made jointly responsible for the actions of their violent, knife-wielding children, we might get somewhere. Some young people I know say that even to look at someone for a second longer than "acceptable" can elicit verbal abuse at the minimum, and/or a violent reaction from that person. What a world - God help us all.

Roger
I read the article on the Sun Justice page.
You are right,the police and Govt need to get tougher.The kids that go around causing trouble have been allowed to get away with far too much and it's been going on for many years now. It starts off with low-level crime and because there are no consequences they continue and think they can get away with seriously injuring or even killing someone.
The parents of these good for nothing,waste of space products of our society have obviously NOT taught their kids morals or values,the police look away and the Govt doesn't care.

Mwah wrote:
"Britain Sh@gged" Luv all comments but at end of day this country is abso sh1t. Im a white british, i sometimes feel ashamed at the fact i never emigrated..

Surely not too late?
Or is it that you don't think anywhere else would have you?

ChrisF, Bexley on 10:28pm Sun 8 Jun 08

i agree with most of your post - although Mandela was involved in strategic violence and so was considered a terrorist including by govt of this country, and he still today is on america's 'terrorist' list - and i feel the shocking lack of members of parliament at a recent knife-crime debate showed how very little interest our supposed representatives have in this issue

sean kirtley, who was peacefully campaigning for rights for others, was recently sent to prison for four and a half years, with a 5-year asbo on release - it was possible to imprison someone for so long for entirely peaceful campaigning because our supposed representatives passed section 145 of the serious organised crime and police act...

compare this to their interest in violent crime, including sentences given to violent thugs / killers, and it is clear they are far, far more concerned to assist their big business friends than they are in violent crime on our streets, in citizens being harmed, maimed and killed on our streets

OK, it seems a lot of people want new laws bought in to target knife and gun crime. That is not the answer as we already have laws in place . A 3 year maximum sentence already exists for carrying a knife over 2.5 inches, as well as many other offensive weapons. A knife under 2.5 inches is normally a pen knife which has the wrong type of blade for stabbing with, so they are not a problem. However, these laws are not enforced, as we have lost the bobby on the beat to our 9 till 5 PCSOs which to be honest, couldn't strike fear in any criminal's hearts. As well as that, judges cannot pass long sentences on murderers and thugs as our category A, B & C prisons are being used to house the 80 year old vicars who can't afford to pay their council tax.
Whilst, it is not only young people who cause this violence, many do and there are many reasons for this. It is easy to blame the parents, because simply education starts in the home! If you don't teach your children what's right and wrong before they are 5 years old, they will never know! Rap music also has it's part to play, promoting violence in every other line (if you don't believe me, listen to some, you'll soon find out ), yet we don't attack that as it's apparently cultural. A lot of gang realted activity is inspired by the likes of 50 Cent, and whilst a lot of young deaths could be attributed this sort of thing, the recent events in Lee Green and Sidcup have now started to show it is spilling into mainstream society.
So what can be done? Enforce the law as it already stands would be a start as well as better education for "at risk" parents and children.
The death penalty and compulsory national service are not the answer. If you are willing to punish a murderer by killing them, what's that make you? And what if after sentence is passed, it turns out they are innocent? And as far as national service is concerned, would you like your children to have to be sent halfway around the world to a lawless desert to fight in a questionable war, and have bits of their body shipped back in a coffin?
Oh, and by the way, this is not some new phenomenon. Violence has always happened, have a look at some news archieves!

I think we need TOUGH LOVE, TOUGH LAW, TOUGH POLICE AND TOUGH SCHOOLS if everyone worked together we could change things. i have attended both meetings in sidcup regarding the recent death of Rob Knox. it just seemed that like some of the panel wanted to fairy over this and lets hope it will go away. I think it's time that us the public stood up and said NO MORE I am prapared to do it are you? It seems the police are doing their job and making arests and the Goverment have said it will be a spell in prison if you carry a knife, but it looks like it's the courts that are not doing thier bit as out of 7000 arrests only 9 were sent to prison. I spoke to an MP recently and he told me prison will not work as the just come out drug addicts, I say send them to prison get rid of the pool table's and T.V's stop visits that way they can't get drugs. Let's make prison a very scary place not a holiday camp.

Miss Angry

Another young man was stabbed outside the Lounge Bar in Chilshurst on Thursday night-it didn't make the news because he wasn't killed.
When will it end,this terrible violence - if i had my life again i don't think i would have children - i would ask myself what kind of a world are they being brought into.

I totally appreciate points of view of others, but at this stage have to ask, what exactly will a march of protest achieve? This issue has been in the forefront of the news for years now, the government do not take heed when the parents of the dead bring their demand for new laws, so how on earth do we fight this government? The people of today, namely those whose children do perpertrate the law, and trust me there are plenty of them, are not interested! It is the law abiding citizens and the children who are not the criminals that have to do all the hard work!
I do live in fear, anxious as my teenage daughter goes to meet her friends, so much so that I taxi her around everywhere...she should have the right to go to the shops without feeling fear of looking at someone too long, or getting her phone out to call me for help for fear it will be stolen etc! Its too late for peaceful protest, it doesn't work. As for the fact that it is wrong to kill, well of course it is, but i believe in an eye for an eye, always will do. The technology in this era is so advanced, it would be accurate to know that the person involved was actually the perpertrator. How dare these kids and young adults think it is ok to intimidate, maim and kill! My children love rap music and associated street culture, but these rappers do not encourage my kids to go out and kill someone for looking at them the wrong way!I believe they all know from a very young age, right from wrong, kids need stability, recognition and love, which many parents are incapable of giving! most of the offenders come from the same stereotypical background, no prospects, no interests, broken homes, bad relationships.
The deterent for me will always be capital punishment. Lets see then how many of these cowards would take the chance of maiming and killing, if they knew what price would be to pay. Wodn't be so big then would they? I would rather watch them hang than know that they still had the right to breath our air. Harsh but I feel completely viable. ask me to march for enforcement of capital punishment, i will be there.

Dee
I agree with you,i'd like to march for capital punishment but in these times of human rights to all we are not going to achieve this,better to march for something that is achievable.
Lets's lock these murderers up for life,we do not want these scumbags out in society,lets take away all their human rights when convicted of murder,after-all why should they whinge about their human rights when they have violently taken that right away from their victims?
The Govt,police and society should make it quite clear to anyone who wants to take someone's life away that they too end the life that they know-FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIFE.
In our ultra-soft society,we must speak-out.

Dee wrote:
I totally appreciate points of view of others, but at this stage have to ask, what exactly will a march of protest achieve? This issue has been in the forefront of the news for years now, the government do not take heed when the parents of the dead bring their demand for new laws, so how on earth do we fight this government? The people of today, namely those whose children do perpertrate the law, and trust me there are plenty of them, are not interested! It is the law abiding citizens and the children who are not the criminals that have to do all the hard work!
I do live in fear, anxious as my teenage daughter goes to meet her friends, so much so that I taxi her around everywhere...she should have the right to go to the shops without feeling fear of looking at someone too long, or getting her phone out to call me for help for fear it will be stolen etc! Its too late for peaceful protest, it doesn't work. As for the fact that it is wrong to kill, well of course it is, but i believe in an eye for an eye, always will do. The technology in this era is so advanced, it would be accurate to know that the person involved was actually the perpertrator. How dare these kids and young adults think it is ok to intimidate, maim and kill! My children love rap music and associated street culture, but these rappers do not encourage my kids to go out and kill someone for looking at them the wrong way!I believe they all know from a very young age, right from wrong, kids need stability, recognition and love, which many parents are incapable of giving! most of the offenders come from the same stereotypical background, no prospects, no interests, broken homes, bad relationships.
The deterent for me will always be capital punishment. Lets see then how many of these cowards would take the chance of maiming and killing, if they knew what price would be to pay. Wodn't be so big then would they? I would rather watch them hang than know that they still had the right to breath our air. Harsh but I feel completely viable. ask me to march for enforcement of capital punishment, i will be there.

Take your head out of the sand and listen to the lyrics of MOST rap records.the "associated" street culture is all about being in Gangs,Its what kids crave - the y consider themselves "soldiers" in these gangs and "soldiers" have weapons to protect and attack opposing gangs.

Apart from this I agree with most of what you say....let them swing.

After reading all these comments it is so easy to see how arguments/fights begin and in many cases progress into much much worse situations. We are all claiming to be on the same side in wanting to put an end to all the violence in our country yet every opinion is so so different and many of us are bickering amongst ourselves.
Maybe the key here is to teach every human being that peoples opinions/ways do differ but that is life. Differences should cause no boundaries. Starting from basics could be the most effective way.
We all clearly have strong opinions but how nice would it be to practice the 'freedom of speech' rule without further disasterous consequences???.....
.............

join the facebook group Get Knives off our streets

http://www.facebook.
com/group.php?gid=22
493622323ts..

The more people that stand up and get counted the more likely the government will start listening... Facebook users may even start voting one day...

i havent read all of the comments but i agree with the 'life for a life' law but, things need to change in jail aswell i no a few people who have been in jail and they tell me it was like a little holiday to butlins! what does that tell us, its not a punishment for them! i say we make our prisons a Prison not a social club!

mary wrote:
join the facebook group Get Knives off our streets

http://www.facebook.
com/group.php?gid=22
493622323ts..

The more people that stand up and get counted the more likely the government will start listening... Facebook users may even start voting one day...

Regrettably the scum on the streets is a result of previous generations of scum breeding.In Britain we now have an feral underclass of parents and offspring who have no self respect or respect for others - all they know is crime and "Street" behaviour. They have no desire to intergrate and are of very low IQ so will never work - they are very materialistic but because
they can never possibly get a well paid or any job their only means of gaining stuff they want is by theft or benefit fraud.
It is vital that this generation of chav scum are prevented from breeding or the situation will worsen further each generation.

We have to assume that there is a "lost generation" which needs to be skipped. The benefit system needs radical overhaul so that The unemployed benefit cheats get Vouchers instead of Cash and have it withdrawn after a period of weeks.
If they fail to get work after this they should be forced to do community work and then be paid the benefit as payment.

Child support should be available for a maximum of three children.

Then the fat slappers breeding these kids wouldnt be so quick to open their legs at the first benefit opportunity.

Mr Sensible, u just live in hope! This country is well and truely F***ed and until they bring in STRONGER peeps will carry on failing

Vern from West Wickham. You brought a smile to my face today as I TOTALLY agree with all your comments, thank god someone thinks like I do. It's these fat pram faces that continue to breed and live off benefits are producing these disgusting ill-mannered ferel kids.

Vern of West Wickham - I agree with you too. Our country seems to pussyfoot around low life scum. The good, law-abiding citizens are being over-run by criminals and spongers and until this country dishes out harsher punishment the situation will only get worse. I feel very concerned for our children's future - the ones who have been brought up properly, that is.

Read about how I would deal with the thugs on our streets in my latest blog in the Your Shopper section:

USE THE SCUM IN THIS COUNTRY AS CANNON FODDER
Posted by Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott at 12:29pm today.

Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott

Chill out people!
Monica you have a lot of anger in your heart what is the differrents between your anger and there`s. Love, Peace, and friendship.
We are all brother and sisters from the same cosmic unerversci.

Its seems a harsh world today, but their needs to be control placed on our youth.
Its is sad that alot of our youth are being punished for the cause of others. That they are out of control have been proven in most occasions to come from familys with poor history with dealing with the police and it just filters from one generation to another.

But their seems alot of vocal responce from the public about who and how it should be done, but we need something like this to turn it around, it needs more input from the public in all areas.

But looking at the comments and insults to each other of what should be a construtive fedback, public responce to debate this subject has mixed feelings and anger which will not achive anything.

Parents of these children need to be looked at in a sence of their parenting skills. As I do feel these issue which end up with acts of crime, come from the lack of care from parents of these children. Aduilt leadership and role models in the childrens lifes are what is needed. But this can be found outside the home if the right support is provided in time before it leads to very serious crimes.

The poilce need to work closer with people who work with youths in this area such as Connections, Sova and so on, their is alot of help out there, but from what i have heard they don't seem to like working with each other, as their cause is poles apart with one trying to defend the youths and the other waiting for the next arrest.

All need to use more communication to beat this situation as it is before we seeing more and more of our youth die as a result of lack of action.

Incompetent upbringings may be part of the cause but I also believe that a huge factor to the increase in violent crimes is the DRINK and DRUG culture which seems to be escalating out of control! Drugs are readily available!

Verity wrote:
Incompetent upbringings may be part of the cause but I also believe that a huge factor to the increase in violent crimes is the DRINK and DRUG culture which seems to be escalating out of control! Drugs are readily available!

Iam in total agreement with your statement. Their does need to be a hard hitting progress of getting the scum that sell drugs and the people that sell drink to youths off our streets.

I was in total shock when i over heard a upset parent that her child had been arrested for nicking lead. To my amazement she felt that a wrongful arrest had been made.
So what does her darling need the money for, other than clothes and food which the parent should provide.
These small crimes which are being done are most of the time are done in need of fueling a drug or drink habit.
So myself as a parent would not look at this as small crime but of what it is leading too.
The same as shop lifting many people with drug problems. So I would think deep when hearing of your child doing things such as this not lightly as some parents do.

Also it has been proved that putting someone in prison with a drug problem does not solve anything, we need better understanding of this and if be it put these people in a rehab centre of some sorts to make sure that they are clear in the however many months or years they are inside. Sometime i wonder if they have more inside then outside.

Even parents have been noted in school playground saying "Oh its only a bit of puff"
not the hard drugs. As if that is o.k then.

Why not make a case for banning cars too, they kill more people on a DAILY basis, yet this isn't news worthy as it is an ACCEPTABLE part of life.

Statistics can be manipulated and so is the news we are fed through every media possible.

Open your eyes and minds and think about if this is really society going down the pan, or is something that's always been there (and always will) as its part of human nature to be violent.

How many of us can say we actually practice what we preach? How many of us actively engage in society and volunteer at a youth club, do outreach work on the streets, intervene when the kids play up on public transport?

Whats the point, its much more productive to rant on an online forum isn't it?

I really don't think this government care one bit. Last weekend saw a couple of thousand people marching through a part of London in protest over knife/gun culture. On the very same day a debate was to be held in the House of Lords. Guess what???? only 8 MPs turned up for the debate! Doesn't this speak volumes? I'm sure if they had to live among us mere mortals and deal with the general fear of violence on the streets then they would be pulling out all the stops to try and resolve one of the most contentious isssues of these modern times.
Things need to change and quickly
Peace to all x

Conrnflake Girl, what makes you think that the people on here have not involed themselves in active ways to help this cause, I for one have, but this is a comment section which will be put forward to the power to be.

As commented above it does make you wonder what the hell they get paid for and we should be looking at who and why they are sitting their playing with peoples lifes.

Your comments of Road accidents is a cause for concerns as also the people behind them, but you cannot say that it a acceptable way of life? to who life may you be taking about, because I for one with many other do not accept this behaviour and never will.

If this is how all of us felt their would be more killings on our street. I would say dont accept it do something about it

Cornflake Girl wrote:
Why not make a case for banning cars too, they kill more people on a DAILY basis, yet this isn't news worthy as it is an ACCEPTABLE part of life. Statistics can be manipulated and so is the news we are fed through every media possible. Open your eyes and minds and think about if this is really society going down the pan, or is something that's always been there (and always will) as its part of human nature to be violent. How many of us can say we actually practice what we preach? How many of us actively engage in society and volunteer at a youth club, do outreach work on the streets, intervene when the kids play up on public transport? Whats the point, its much more productive to rant on an online forum isn't it?

I do my part for society, am part of a voluntary organisation which teaches youngsters how to save lives. Comments like yours are designed to take the wind out of sails, be unproductive and defeatist! This isn't a mere rant it is a voice in which the powers that be may listen to! Drink and drugs are a problem and should not be compared to driving cars. Driving cars are not a cause of escalating violence, but alcohol and drugs definately are a huge factor to the rise in crime!!!

Media and statistics may or may not point to higher crime but from my own experience I can see without these vehicles that violent crime is on the up!

vern wrote:

mary wrote: join the facebook group Get Knives off our streets http://www.facebook. com/group.php?gid=22 493622323ts.. The more people that stand up and get counted the more likely the government will start listening... Facebook users may even start voting one day...

Regrettably the scum on the streets is a result of previous generations of scum breeding.In Britain we now have an feral underclass of parents and offspring who have no self respect or respect for others - all they know is crime and "Street" behaviour. They have no desire to intergrate and are of very low IQ so will never work - they are very materialistic but because they can never possibly get a well paid or any job their only means of gaining stuff they want is by theft or benefit fraud. It is vital that this generation of chav scum are prevented from breeding or the situation will worsen further each generation. We have to assume that there is a "lost generation" which needs to be skipped. The benefit system needs radical overhaul so that The unemployed benefit cheats get Vouchers instead of Cash and have it withdrawn after a period of weeks. If they fail to get work after this they should be forced to do community work and then be paid the benefit as payment. Child support should be available for a maximum of three children. Then the fat slappers breeding these kids wouldnt be so quick to open their legs at the first benefit opportunity.

Vern, You are my hero. Sod Boris, you are the man. Vouchers are a great idea but would the drug dealers take these as payment?

I think you should only get child support on the 1st two children that might stop the mongrels breeding.

It take it your taste in women are of the wrong kind, think about the ones who for unknown reason their dream man has done a walk, instead of going on about the women of this country lets have a look at the selfish, self-centred MEN that help created these children. WHICH HAVE TO RIGHTS to whom they are born too.

Men should start to claim responablity for their off springs also.

So Matt and Vern my advise pick someone who is not a Fat Slapper and comes from a good family in future, you must be looking in the wrong place.

Cornflake Girl wrote:
Why not make a case for banning cars too, they kill more people on a DAILY basis, yet this isn't news worthy as it is an ACCEPTABLE part of life. Statistics can be manipulated and so is the news we are fed through every media possible. Open your eyes and minds and think about if this is really society going down the pan, or is something that's always been there (and always will) as its part of human nature to be violent. How many of us can say we actually practice what we preach? How many of us actively engage in society and volunteer at a youth club, do outreach work on the streets, intervene when the kids play up on public transport? Whats the point, its much more productive to rant on an online forum isn't it?

Whilst I appreciate your perspective, many deaths are deemed more acceptable as they are most part of an accident or out of control situation. Not that any death is ever acceptable in these circumstances. Knife crime is an intentional, premeditated act. The outcome of death may unfortunately be the same, but the cause is very much different. yes the media hype it all up, but in this instance i think it is a spiralling problem.
I do intervene if I see kids playing up, and am really not short in coming forward, but at a price, look how many have paid the price for daring to try and help or diffuse a situation. People are too scared to risk helping a victim now. Please know that society has changed, it is more "trendy" for this generations street-cred, to commit crime and be notorious.
it will not go away, and having read your statement of "it is human nature to be violent", i have to disagree, it is an emotion to lose your temper, violence stems from choice. These scumbags all have a choice. And please do not think my opinion is a deliberate attempt to overturn yours, it just seems unfair to brush it under the carpet and blame the media.

vern wrote:

Dee wrote: I totally appreciate points of view of others, but at this stage have to ask, what exactly will a march of protest achieve? This issue has been in the forefront of the news for years now, the government do not take heed when the parents of the dead bring their demand for new laws, so how on earth do we fight this government? The people of today, namely those whose children do perpertrate the law, and trust me there are plenty of them, are not interested! It is the law abiding citizens and the children who are not the criminals that have to do all the hard work! I do live in fear, anxious as my teenage daughter goes to meet her friends, so much so that I taxi her around everywhere...she should have the right to go to the shops without feeling fear of looking at someone too long, or getting her phone out to call me for help for fear it will be stolen etc! Its too late for peaceful protest, it doesn\'t work. As for the fact that it is wrong to kill, well of course it is, but i believe in an eye for an eye, always will do. The technology in this era is so advanced, it would be accurate to know that the person involved was actually the perpertrator. How dare these kids and young adults think it is ok to intimidate, maim and kill! My children love rap music and associated street culture, but these rappers do not encourage my kids to go out and kill someone for looking at them the wrong way!I believe they all know from a very young age, right from wrong, kids need stability, recognition and love, which many parents are incapable of giving! most of the offenders come from the same stereotypical background, no prospects, no interests, broken homes, bad relationships. The deterent for me will always be capital punishment. Lets see then how many of these cowards would take the chance of maiming and killing, if they knew what price would be to pay. Wodn\'t be so big then would they? I would rather watch them hang than know that they still had the right to breath our air. Harsh but I feel completely viable. ask me to march for enforcement of capital punishment, i will be there.

Take your head out of the sand and listen to the lyrics of MOST rap records.the \"associated\" street culture is all about being in Gangs,Its what kids crave - the y consider themselves \"soldiers\" in these gangs and \"soldiers\" have weapons to protect and attack opposing gangs. Apart from this I agree with most of what you say....let them swing.

Thank you for your objectives, but quite frankly it all comes down to having a choice, my point is this, I have no problem listening to rap music, but to me and my kids, thats just what it is. No person/s should be able to go out and kill or maim, and blame a music culture, again, it comes down to guidance as to what is acceptable and what is not. The parents hold this responsibilty of teaching their kids what is normal and what is not and a balance between reality and superficial.
I hate the way kids plead ignorance these days, like they never knew it was wrong, or blame someone else! they know **** well what is right from wrong, regardless of music, creed or colour.
I agree with everything you have said, but trust me, I have lived enough to know my head is not in the sand, i just think excuses cannot be made at all, and you are right, the bottom line is the fact that they are scum and deserve to "swing". Your words seem harsh but i think they are the blunt, grim reality of this society, its a real shame people choose to ignore it, putting their heads in the sand, and pretend its not happening......IT IS, and god help the next generation, if this is the crap we have to face now. I see the anger and abuse everyday from kids no older than 8 or 9...because discipline has been taken away in every shape and form!!!!!!
All this human rights crap makes me sick. Do you remember the "Hug A Hoodie" campaign??!!! I feel sick just thinking about it!!!........these thugs are not poor deprived youngsters, most are lazy, unemployed, free riders, who think the world owes them a living!!! Without ever having paid in!!!! I bet statistics will support me on that one!!! the only hug they would get from me is a strong throttling hold around the neck....(very harsh, i know), in the hope that one less gang hoody will be terorising our streets!

Another World wrote:
It take it your taste in women are of the wrong kind, think about the ones who for unknown reason their dream man has done a walk, instead of going on about the women of this country lets have a look at the selfish, self-centred MEN that help created these children. WHICH HAVE TO RIGHTS to whom they are born too. Men should start to claim responablity for their off springs also. So Matt and Vern my advise pick someone who is not a Fat Slapper and comes from a good family in future, you must be looking in the wrong place.

You are right.

Vern and myself's opinion was a little to directed at the women. Men are the even more guilty party. This generation have the idea that getting a woman pregnant proves your a man. A real man brings up his children teaching them right and wrong but seeing that they dont know the difference this could prove difficult.

Fat slapper is to general lets refer to these people as mis-guided wrong-uns.

Cornflake girl - in response to your comment regarding voluntering at a youth club.I have a friend who used to do this until she was punched in the face by one of the youths she was giving her time for - he was actually a policeman's son.Needless to say it was the last time she helped & a few weeks later the hall where the youth club was held was burnt down.3 of the youths who attended had done it when they were drunk - apparently for a laugh.My sister in law also started as a volunteer in a youth club so that her children could attend,after some time she was offered a paid job as a youth worker.This year alone she has received 2 black eyes from youths that go to these clubs.I think she is mad to continue doing this job how long will it be before she is seriously hurt ?? Not all but many of these youths go to clubs to start trouble ,they turn up drunk or after taking drugs and spoil it for everyone.They think it is big to carry knives they can't see how sad they really are.There is no way on earth i would offer to help at a youth club because most of the youth's of today have no respect and to be honest i would be to frightened.I would rather put my time into continuing my full time job & not claimimg benefits and bringing my own children up & teaching them right from wrong and respect for other people.The youth culture of today is down to drink,drugs and bad parenting- there is no excuse
TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OFFSPRING,KNOW WHERE THEY ARE AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING & TAKE AN INTEREST IN THEM - AND FOR ALL YOU BENEFIT PONCES GET OFF OF YOUR BACK SIDES & GET A JOB.
Vern - i think that rather than giving vouchers to benefit ponces they should receive a box of food per week according to how many of them live in the household- that is after they have done some community work in payment for it.Why should they get cash or vouchers to spend on fags,booze & drugs ? when the hard working people like us are paying income tax which funds their habits.

Poor discipline, lack of respect, drugs, alcohol and weak parenting are all causes but the list goes on and beyond! There is the 'MUST HAVE' design labels, trainers, fast cars, etc. There is the 'NO BLAME it lays elsewhere!' Excuses! There is the lack of support for discipline by governmental and European Human Rights disallowing the parents, teachers, police etc. to get tough for fear of reprisals, which ironically enough puts all three of these groups at eachother's throats in fear of eachother when really they should be working together hand in hand in controlling this new unruly generation of miscreants. There are good kids turning bad purely through fear themselves! They want protection and a sense of belonging, can't find it amongst the adults so join the very gangs that lead them into crime. And then there is the trend to be bad, because this is a sign of the times, 'When bad will mean Good'. Can we as a nation shake loose from the grip of the European Human Rights and be given back our liberty to dish out fierce discipline back on these youngsters who have been getting away with MURDER without fear of reprisals? Yes there will be casualties if our power is reinstated, yes parents will swarm down to the schools that bring out the cane from the cobwebs, but tell them, tough! if you don't like it educate them at home. And if your household is full of shiftless non-working adults then reduce benefit to a bare minimum or a voucher scheme to encourage them back to work. Adults need to get TOUGH and need to set an example by getting off their backsides and working. Teachers, police and parents need to work without interference from eachother or other governmental busybodies and do-gooders! Man may never be satisfied but law and order must prevail! I also think National Service has to come back tailored to this new breed of society. Children who have a firm goal in their minds of what they are working towards when they leave school should be excluded. Self-discipline, respect and control should be paramount and parents should sign a disclaimer allowing those in authority to treat the 'little angels' as required. But CCTV should be installed as well as audio systems so that there is absolutely no chance of sexual abuse or severe physical violence, by which I mean an assault resulting in hospitalisation. There should be a tier system whereby the naughtiest children are seperated and placed into a hardcore training camp on the things that they lack, like respect, self discipline and physical activities, even a training course on good food! The more behaved ones are trained for job skills and there is an opportunity always for them ALL to improve and move up a tier until they reach an elite group, where they are cream of the crop and business cry out for them. Oh dear sounds a bit like Brave New World. Perhaps you should scrap my ideas altogether, not sure I like it now!lol!

Good god what youth club was that a club for youth offenders. My son attends two youth clubs in our area and has no trouble and respect is given to the youth leaders as far as i can see. We need areas like this if not you have got them hanging around the streets, so by what your saying is that the centres are unsafe places which is very untrue. Alot of work from good youth leaders are put to practice in these places and its down the the youth worker if their not good ones, as a good youth leader they would not put themselves in place of this sort of situation in the first place. I have meet many over the course of the years who, some very good and others that have just not quite got what it takes to work with youths in this area. Your statement with regards to the youths covers many clubs to which children are involed with are you saying that children that join the Police Cadets, Army,YMCA, Air Cadets all of these clubs are all for one reason or another their because they like to cause trouble. Where do your children go for fun because if you are holding them back because of the way you veiw these club you could not be further from the truth.
Time effort and money goes into these clubs with some leaders dedicating their lives to it to dismiss them as just trouble spots, their are many clubs in the Bexley Area which are great support and that spend neverending amount of time and effort into supporting our Youth. As far as iam concerned as a parent I'am only glad that these places are their for our kids to go to and only have the kindest regards for the people that help this happen for our youth. Negative veiws are our youth are more damaging not all take drugs and get out of their heads on drink and not all as we were are perfect to much is being put on them at such a young age. We do need more parent support from some of them but not all kids with drink problems and Drug Problems come from bad parenting. Their has always been always been shocking storys about our youths in the past years what with Mods and Rockers in gangs then Punks and Skin heads and so be it we will always find some sort of gang behaviour. But now it is other cultures which are mixed with ours without any understanding which i feel are leading to the problems we have today.

As my 6 yearold was asking last night to look for games on my computer i was looking for what she requested. When doing this i just typed in Fun Games when i entered one of these sites it came out knife game, i could do no more than look at the site and felt sick that it was quoted as one of the most used games on the site. It is about killing people with Knifes what i find shocking is not only was it the peoples fav one that it was headed under FUN GAMES. What is going on in this world so my advise to parents is double check every game site your kids download this was under a misleading heading. Its wrong and so are the people that make these sorts of games but if more are playing them then the more they will make.

As a young person I would just like to add that it is not always about bad parenting, drink 'n drugs. I have actually seen with my own eyes plenty of young people come out of school and struggle to get a job. Business's don't like to employ us at 16-17yrs cos of insurance and health 'n safety reasons. So many people 16 to 18 kick around for ages looking for ways to get money to afford the things they want and mainly just to go out with thier mates and the easiest ways to make money as a last resort is selling drugs, starting with cannibis which is a cheap, low class, very distributable drug moving on to harder stuff and stealing. The fast life and the easy money becomes an addiction. There is no turning back! It is easier to carry on what they're doing by then because there are too many obstacles preventing them from going straight. i.e. criminal records, asbos, reputation. It seems an easier lifestyle selling drugs except for the risk. If jobs were readily available first off before that road is travelled down then crime among young people would go down!

Bow wrote:
As a young person I would just like to add that it is not always about bad parenting, drink 'n drugs. I have actually seen with my own eyes plenty of young people come out of school and struggle to get a job. Business's don't like to employ us at 16-17yrs cos of insurance and health 'n safety reasons. So many people 16 to 18 kick around for ages looking for ways to get money to afford the things they want and mainly just to go out with thier mates and the easiest ways to make money as a last resort is selling drugs, starting with cannibis which is a cheap, low class, very distributable drug moving on to harder stuff and stealing. The fast life and the easy money becomes an addiction. There is no turning back! It is easier to carry on what they're doing by then because there are too many obstacles preventing them from going straight. i.e. criminal records, asbos, reputation. It seems an easier lifestyle selling drugs except for the risk. If jobs were readily available first off before that road is travelled down then crime among young people would go down!

Bow, I take it you would be supporting National Service then? Young people won't need to worry about securing a job until their service has ended at say 21 yrs?

Martin wrote:
One possible solution to this, and several other problems with our disintegrating society, is the re-introduction of National Service. This is expensive, but could be funded in the following manner: 1) Scrap the Territorial Army. 2) Approach the Underwriters and ask them how much they pay out on vandalism/ life insurance/ theft/ burglary claims (lets call it £4 Billion a year) split the difference with the Underwriters - take £2 billion off them. Scrap some of the useless Quangos and ineffective schemes. 3) Divert funding from the Benefits system (because there will be a lot less incapacity and job-seekers claims) 4) Scrap the PCSO scheme - and there is the funding!! It does seem to me that this Government is unwilling to actually achieve anything (and looks on-course to miss its "raison D'etre" of achieving re-election!) The benefits of National Service to this country would be numerous and far-reaching: Providing well rounded healthy young people to the job market. Disrupting gang culture. Massively decreasing "low level" crime. Massively decreasing Benefits payments. A possible spin-off could be on the imigration front - Make it compulsory for all imigrants to do a spell of National Service before qualifying for National Health etc. ???? I'm sure that there would be many other benefits to lots of different Government Departments and parts of society. So, I don't accept the argument "It would be too expensive to implement" especially when this Goverment thinks nothing about chucking £50 Billion at a private company (N.R) And, importantly, would have a positive impact on stabbing/ shooting/ and drink driving statistics on the under 25's. It would also "tick the box" on the Governments "fear of crime and fear of the causes of crime"

WELL SAID! And I would add that child benefit is only paid for the first offspring. Immigrants to work a minimum of 5 years before they can make any claim of benefits, and the NHS is only available to British Nationals who have lived in this country for at least 10 years. Otherwise health care must be funded by the individual. Self abuse i.e. alcohol, drugs resulting in medical care required by the individual should also be funded by the individual themselves and not from the NHS fund. If they can't afford it their should be a payback at a later time incorproated ie in the will.

"Life is cheap in the developing world, as evidenced by the continual mayhem in such places as Pakistan, Somalia, and Jamaica.

The trajedy of our society is that mass immigration has meant the wholesale import of butchery.

Labour may demand that we "celebrate diversity" but there can be no dispute that the recent influx of foreingers has meant a huge rise of drug fueled gang warfare, ethnic tensions, street violence, and mutual mistrust.

Britain never use to a country where a 14 year old would be knifed to death just because he gave his assailant 'a dirty look' or where a corner bakery on a Saturday morning would be the venue for a murder.

As one Hospital consultant said last week parts of London resemble the worst areas of Chicago or Los Angeles.

And while some Police chiefs cling to the polictical correct line, others such as Julie Spence of the Cambridgeshire Police Force are willing to state that immigration has imposed a huge new burden.

The only solution is to bring in strict new quota's to halt the flood bringing back a sense of stability to our disintegrating society." (Daily Express 01/06/08)

An ex labour voter.

Concerned the majority of killings amongst young people this year has been carried out by home-grown youngsters of 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants not new immigrants.

I do think you have a valid point though, the recent influx of foreigners are bound to be bringing in their own brand of crime, especially because, as you suggest, they are used to far greater violence. Only the other day my son told me that a 'decent and educated Slovakian' warned him that the country is set for mayhem as we have invited thousands of the worse kind of gypsies here who were extremely dangerous and lawless in Slovakia. Once they understand how gentle British law is they will soon wreak havok!

Somalians who have come to these coasts for their own protection now turn and bite the hand that feeds them!

I think that a law ought be passed asap that anyone committing crime here in this country should be immediately deported and certainly all chances of ever acquiring British Citizenship thereafter denied, no citizenship, no benefits, if they are caught in this country again then their families should also be deported as a deterrent to all p-takers! But of course as someone earlier suggested the Human Rights Brigade will rule against all common sense!

The music industry must recognise that 'Grime' is undoubtedly detrimental to the subconcious and impressionable minds of young people. An outright ban to this type of music would only appeal to the natural rebellion of teenagers, so dumb it down by promoting 'GOOD FEEL' songs. The music industry ought to create incentives for new music-artists to encourage them to write and sing 'good lyrics'. The music and film industry are forever and a day awarding prizes and accolades to those who have been singing and performing for years, perhaps they should target these awards and other incentives, (special treatment), to those at street level, especially newcomers!

One mother to another Bexley - no it wasn't a youth club for young offenders - the first was a youth club in West Kingsdown where my friend was assaulted & my sister in law works for Greenwich council and so all the youth clubs she attends are within the borough.These people volunteer to help mainly so their own kids can attend - some go on to be offered paid jobs.Because they are assaulted doesn't mean they are bad youth workers and put them selves in the situation.I agree a lot of good practices are put into place at youth clubs but that doesn't mean that the kids take it home with them - good practices are put into place at school but lets face it if kids took notice we would not have the crime rate that we have today.As for what do my children do for fun - they do all sorts including army cadets and swimming club and we do a lot as a family.I had my children to bring them up and not pack them off to every youth club going.And as for my view of youth clubs and i mean Youth clubs and not army cadets or police cadets they are not the same as youth clubs - i can only speak from personal experience and if you don't know anyone who has ever been insulted or assaulted or never known one child who has been picked on at Youth club you are one of very few.You need to get your head out of the sand and have a look at the real world -

When I was at school, (junior), our headmaster used to hold regular morning assemblies and during these hymn thumping, bible bashing sermons he also used to throw in fables such as Aesop's fables and they always ended with the moral of the story is ..., I think I learned more morals from those moments then I did from my own mother! The importance of instilling morals into young, undeveloped minds is, I believe, largely overlooked, and by the time they reach adolescence, almost too late. Bring back moral teachings in schools I say.

vern wrote:

mary wrote:
join the facebook group Get Knives off our streets

http://www.facebook.
com/group.php?gid=22
493622323ts..

The more people that stand up and get counted the more likely the government will start listening... Facebook users may even start voting one day...

Regrettably the scum on the streets is a result of previous generations of scum breeding.In Britain we now have an feral underclass of parents and offspring who have no self respect or respect for others - all they know is crime and "Street" behaviour. They have no desire to intergrate and are of very low IQ so will never work - they are very materialistic but because
they can never possibly get a well paid or any job their only means of gaining stuff they want is by theft or benefit fraud.
It is vital that this generation of chav scum are prevented from breeding or the situation will worsen further each generation.

We have to assume that there is a "lost generation" which needs to be skipped. The benefit system needs radical overhaul so that The unemployed benefit cheats get Vouchers instead of Cash and have it withdrawn after a period of weeks.
If they fail to get work after this they should be forced to do community work and then be paid the benefit as payment.

Child support should be available for a maximum of three children.

Then the fat slappers breeding these kids wouldnt be so quick to open their legs at the first benefit opportunity.

Yesterday I heard that the Government has taken one of my ideas and may start using it - Putting ASBO scum in jumpsuits with "Criminal or Offender" on their backs and making them do litter,graffiti cleaning etc etc. Unless that mad cow Shammi chakrabati from Liberty ( an organisation which receives an inproportonite amount of publicity -9000 members) starts bleating about their "Human Rights" being infringed.

Why is it that schools closing time gets earlier the older the pupils get?

If we are to get rid of violence, don’t we first need to address the education issues? Instead of teachers being in school full time, should they not work like university lecturers and be paid pro-rata for their pupil contact time? They should be taken out of the playtime and dinner time and school bus run roles for which they are far too highly qualified to be paid; employ and pay people correspondent to abilities and skills necessary for these roles. It would be no different to employing traffic wardens and C.S.O.s in the police force.

We could then have a structure and tiered educational day.
Infants in school from 9a.m. – 3 p.m.
Junior school from 9 a.m. – 3.30 p.m.
Years 7 – 9 from 9.a.m. – 4. p.m.
Years 9 – 11 from 9.a.m. – 4.45 p.m.
Years 12 – 13 from 9.a.m. – 5.30 p.m.

After all, at eighteen many of us were out at work doing hours that secondary school pupils don’t even dream of, even when studying for A-levels!

Some of that additional time could be devoted to more sport related activities, tiring young people out rather than releasing them onto the streets to reap havoc and violent mayhem with their pent up, un-exhausted energies and testosterone related aggression.

Like training a dog, exercise, discipline and affection are the three constants constantly missing in anti social young people’s lives. Sadly, they are often missing in their parents’ lives and it remains for those of us who are well-adjusted enough to understand, to make that difference. Schools are therefore the place where they are most likely to meet them in a moderate and well-balanced regime.

People are forever blaming parents for anti-social children. Most children have their most ACTIVE part of the day absorbed by school hours. They are far more receptive in the morning and early afternoon than the latter part of the day when they go home. Schools should instill vital lessons on correct social interaction, morals and scruples. This is a responsibility that seems to rest solely on the parents shoulders, many of whom come home exhausted from work trying their best to be good role models which they probably miserably fail at. My children's manners and attitudes always improved during long summer holidays home with me, but they certainly became more surly and obnoxious when just back from school. They'd wind down and get back into home-mode attitudes after about an hour after school. They definately worsened in behaviour during the senior school years, I am sure children learn bad ways from their peers at school, so for me personally I have found schools inadequate at setting decent standards of behaviour. The government ought to empower teachers so that discipline can be maintained, parents who object to firm measures and are first up at the school to complain about little john being humiliated in front of his classmates should be threatened with expulsion of their prodigy for their interference in the matter! All the kids thereafter who are uneducated as a result of a bruiser parent can get jobs in menial labour and low wages, (might inspire the next generation to buckle down to hard work!

As a parentI have found your dammed if you do try to chastise your children and hand them into the law if they have done wrong!!! and your dammed if you dont!!!. I really dont see how parents can win. As some of you know on here my son was sent down for 5 years for stabbing somebody, he never learnt to be that way in our home, he has both a mother and father that are still together after 28yrs, yet 3 of our sons ended up on the wrong side of the law. They were not mollycoddled at home or had parents that gave excuses for thier behaviour. However when you do turn your own into the law everyone slates you. so how can we win as parents?

quote

A lot of teens know they can get away with crime because they're underage. Some people say they are too young to be judged like adults. Too young for what? Obviously not too young to carry knives and guns, not too young to harass and assault people on the street and obviously not too young to kill people. The laws are too soft in this country. These days it's even illegal to give your kids spanking for bad behaviour. My parents never beat me in my life but I always knew that if I did something really bad my father wouldn't hesitate to do what's necessary. Parents have to be allowed to be strict with their kids, because they are often the only people who can stop their kids from committing a crime.

Capital punishment would set a good example for those who think they can get off easy with crime. Those who think they can beat, stab or shoot someone to death on the street to be cool and then laugh about it with their thug friends. I have no sympathy for thugs and murderers. Why should anyone? Murderers should get capital punishment, it’s only fair or at least locked up for life, isolated from society.

It's not about trying to beat violence with violence, it's about not letting them get away with it, taking all measures that's necessary. If you've committed a crime you have to be punished accordingly regardless of your age, as long as you're aware of what you did and yes, those "kids" know that what they're doing is wrong, they just simply don't care. Capital punishment will make other think twice before committing crime.

Making posters and commercials about the horrors of knife/gun crime is useless, teenagers just laugh at them, those campaigns don't affect them they only horrify and scare normal people who don't carry knives and guns therefore making themselves an easy prey to the criminals who do. Gun crime has quadrupled since the ban in 1997. That ban did a favour only to the criminals. I don’t know what the government in this country is thinking. We shouldn’t be just looking for whom to blame we should be forcing changes and mainly changes in the law.

I like many am a mum to 2 teenage sons, they go out and go clubbing and do all the things I did as a teenager, BUT I worry sick until I hear their key in the door, Like many my boys are good hard working boys both left school and found jobs straight away, they come from a good hard working family!! Maybe we can carry on blaming parents I am sure that alot of them are uncaring but not every VIOLENT YOUTH, comes from unloving parents, sometimes children just go wrong, get in with the wrong crowd, want to be seen as BIG! you know what I mean, whether a parent is hard working or on benefit really should not be the issue!! Although I know many families are also uncaring and this can make a child crave attention, no matter what type! We need to look at the overall country I am only 39 and my god when I talk I sound like my grandparents, things like it wasnt like this when I was younger!! When the thing is it really wasnt! We could be kids! We could walk the streets! I blame the government and what they have done to this country! I am no longer proud to be british! I feel that Foreingers have TAKEN over our country! They not only take our jobs, our social money! our houses! and god knows what else. But they still have a chip on their shoulders MOST of them. So thats what is happening! Our kids are being angry! rebellious! and who the hell can blame them I too find myself at times cursing!! HAVENT YOU? These so called government have opened up a big can of worms invited all in and none of them leave! They make you laugh because they say they have nothing, but most send their money, BACK HOME!! sO WHILE THEY ALL BECOME RICHER ITS COUNTRY GOES INTO RECESSION!!! WELL DONE!! Tony blair, Gorden brown, you all sit in your nice houses, and we THE BRISTISH, will carry on paying for you, to mess up this god **** country!! If I sound bitter I am because YOU have made it that although we work hard now, there will be no pension for us! our kids can never afford to buy a property, but nor will there be any council properties for them to rent! Each swimming pool or likes knock down become flats, houses!! What about our kids!!! We pay non stop in this country for everything, bins, water, police. etc 10 times over! OUR POOR INNOCENT CHILDREN OUR GETTING DRAGGED INTO CRIME! KILLED, MURDERED ON OUR STREETS, BECAUSE OF YOU SO CALLED PEOPLE WHO I TRYING TO DO GOOD!!
PROUD TO BE BRITISH!!!! NOT ANY MORE!!

With regards to the above post by "A Mum".

Wow. Strong racism there. Thanks a lot. I too came to Britain 10 years ago as a teenager. I went to school, learned English, did my GCSE's, then A-levels, and later a physics degree. I'm married, I work and I pay my taxes. I'm a naturalised British citizen and I'm proud of it.

Am I also to blame for the violent behaviour of teenagers? Did I contribute to their violence in any way because I'm a "foreigner"? Did I rob them of anything? Money or opportunities? I had to struggle all my life to get to where I am today and if I haven't achieved something I wanted, I have only myself to blame.

Do not make excuses for violent youths. You can't justify murder or mugging someone at gun point, or when teens gang up and beat and bash someone to death by kicking them like a football, stabbing them and jumping on their head.

Do not make excuses for people like that and do not take pity on them because they won't feel pity or remorse when they attack you.

As the saying goes 'you reap what you sow' - back in the 60's people wanted the pill, sexual freedom, and all the rest of it - what have we gained? Not a lot I'm afraid - just the destabilising of the traditional family unit. You can bet your last penny that the 'parent's' can't be to blame - most of these kids don't have a father figure, frequently don't have full blood siblings either. When you undermine the family then you destroy the fabric of society.

<i>They not only take our jobs, our social money! our houses! and god knows what else.<i> I'm afraid a lot of British people are too bone idle to get off heir backsides and work, hence the need for immigration - very telling comment that they 'get your social'. The welfare state in funding the demise of the family compounds the issue. You don't get something for nothing in this world - a bit more hard work and the average Brit might get a few rewards.