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UPDATE: Bakery murder victim named

1:15pm Saturday 10th May 2008

comment Comments (179)   Have your say »


A 16-YEAR-OLD boy was murdered in a bakers' shop in Lee this morning.

Police were called to reports of an assault at the Three Cooks shop at the junction of Burnt Ash Hill and Woodyates Road at 11.50am today (May 10).

The victim was a local boy, Jimmy Mizen - believed to have been a pupil at St Thomas More Catholic Comprehensive School in Foots Cray Road.

Jimmy suffered serious injuries to his neck and was pronounced dead at the scene.

Police have started a murder investigation and have informed the victim's next of kin.

Eyewitness accounts

A bystander outside the Three Cooks - who did not want to be named - told News Shopper that two youths were attacked by a third youth, carrying a baseball bat.

She said: "The two guys - who are local - were attacked with a baseball bat.

"They were attacked in the shop.

"It looked like glass was broken and broken glass cut someone across the neck.

"It looked like something out of a Tarantino movie."

She added :"I think it was an unprovoked attack."

Estate agent Paul Godfrey was one of the first people on the scene, after his colleague who witnessed the attack told him what had happened.

Mr Godfrey said: "A colleague had gone to the shop and found out what happened.

"He sprinted down to my office and we grabbed a first aid box and sprinted back."

He added: "I arrived after the attack and saw the aftermath.

"We went up with a first aid kit and called for an ambulance while the victim's brother tried to stem the flow of blood.

"He has a towel round his neck to stop the flow of blood but there was an awful amount of blood."

A shock to the local community

Businesses in the parade of shops next to the bakery shut for the afternoon as a mark of respect.

Mr Godfrey said: "It is a lovely area - houses are expensive and the people who live there are nice normal people.

"All the shops in the parade know each other and get on well and we were all shocked.

"We all shut up shop as a mark of respect."

He added: "From what I could find out they are a local family and he was a nice kid and it was a random attack.

"My immediate thoughts are with his family and friends.

"We hear about knife crime in London - particularly among young people - but that seems to be gang-related.

"But this seems to be an unprovoked and violent attack on someone who seemed to be a decent young man."

Police investigation

Investigating officer Detective Chief Inspector Cliff Lyons said: "This is another tragic incident where a young victim has lost his life, and our sympathies are with his family and friends.

"At this early stage it is understood that Jimmy was working in the Three Cooks bakery when the suspect entered the premises.

"There was an argument between Jimmy and the suspect, following which Jimmy was assaulted and he sustained serious neck injuries.

"The suspect, described as a male youth, made of from the scene up Burnt Ash Hill towards Burnt Ash Lane.

"I would urge anyone who was in and around the Burnt Ash Hill area at the time of the incident to call us at our incident room with any information they may have."

  • Anyone with information should call 020 8721 4205 or Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555 111.

Your Say YourNews Shopper

Paul Godfrey, LEE says...
2:24pm Sat 10 May 08

This is a shocking attack, I work on the corner and ran up to help and i can only discribe what i saw as shocking.. i really feel for the boys brother and mother who were in the shop with him. i must urge you please do not make any stupid comments on here. thjis is a tragic waste of life. the boy was a good kid and not in any gang.

Liz, Orpington says...
3:22pm Sat 10 May 08

This family are hard-working, god fearing, close-knit and loving and I can not even begin to imagine what they are going through. All our love to you all at this terrible time - our thoughts and prayers are with you.


Lisa, SE London says...
3:31pm Sat 10 May 08

My sympathys to the family of this young chap; Such a waste ; Such a loss for his kin; I know that bakers, I use it at times as my ex husband and elder son and daughter live in woodyates road; Rest in Peace and God Bless you;

Cheryl, Lee says...
4:03pm Sat 10 May 08

Words can not touch on how this young man's familiy must feel. Another life has been stolen by youths who see vilolence as an authoritive answer. Something MUST be done to resolve what issues feed this behaviour. Its taking over our culture, society and lives.
My thoughts are with the young man's family. Good bless.

Sean, Lee says...
4:14pm Sat 10 May 08

You'll Be Truly Missed Son. EveryOne Is Going To Miss You. Top Lad. RestInPeace. x

Nikki, Eltham says...
4:26pm Sat 10 May 08

I am shocked! The news hasn't sunk in. Jimmy you had grown into a wonderful young man, why did this happen to you? My thoughts are with your family at this tragic time.

Sian Marie, Welling says...
4:47pm Sat 10 May 08

Jim babeee.. i cant believe what has happened.. Why youu? you were lovelyy and everyone lovedd you too bits.. you were always crakinn jokess.. and making everyone laughh =( .. i wass only with you lastt nite.. it seems soo unreal.. it was yourr birthdayy.. and we hadd a greatt nightt .. wee was saying how we havent met up in ages.. and thatt we sud more often.. i regret itt soo muchh now darrlin.. thingss will neverr be thee samee... jim i miss youu soo muchh alreadyy.. you will never be forgotten byy anyonee. i lovee youuuuuu ****

Andrew, Eltham says...
5:15pm Sat 10 May 08

Jim...you legend. This is just so sudden, I can't believe that when I come in on Monday I won't be able to sign your shirt, and that friday was the last time I could joke around with you. You've always been a great guy, always, and drama was such a laugh with you there. You were so easy going, so easy to talk to, you had a heart of gold, and I know I speak for everyone when I say, you are never going to be forgotten. Goodbye Jim, RestInPeace xx

Lisa, SE London says...
5:17pm Sat 10 May 08

To all of Jims young friends who left comments; I never knew Jim and I dont know any of you but I know, in a way, how you must be feeling; My cousin was killed aged 17 some 25 years ago now and the shock, the anger, the unjustice of it all that I feel I can emphasise with you; ((((Hugs))) and again, to the young lads family, my deepest sympathys to you all;

kay, eltham says...
5:18pm Sat 10 May 08

RIP Jimmy...I Dont Personally Know You But I Know Harry.
Hope Whoeva Done This Is Caught And Killed!!!
Sweetdreams
xxx

c, lee says...
5:30pm Sat 10 May 08

i cant actually believe it, he was one of the nicest lads u could meet...ive known him since nursery an i jus cant believe hes gone...my thoughts an prayers are with his family! theyr such a wonderful group of people and i can only imagen the pain they're feeling right now! R.i.p jimmy, you'll be greatly missed!! x

Paul Godfrey, Home says...
5:52pm Sat 10 May 08

My thoughts go out out to Jimmy's family.. I am shocked and completely numb at what has happened. I prayed the outcome would be different. I cannot believe this has happened to someone so young.

Miss Angry, says...
5:53pm Sat 10 May 08

Unless N/S has a technical problem I can only assume my comment was censored. I fully understand why people have a need to express their sorrow and sympathy at this sort of tragedy. But the media should also allow us to express our anger that this sort of thing keeps happening more and more frequently as the months tick by. Children are killing children, what is going on? Why is this happening on a regular basis and what needs to be done to deter this from ever happening again? This news is shocking and outrageous and a family and community are left reeling..what will our grand politicians do to STOP THIS happening again!!!!

paul godfrey, home says...
6:00pm Sat 10 May 08

Miss Angry wrote:
Unless N/S has a technical problem I can only assume my comment was censored. I fully understand why people have a need to express their sorrow and sympathy at this sort of tragedy. But the media should also allow us to express our anger that this sort of thing keeps happening more and more frequently as the months tick by. Children are killing children, what is going on? Why is this happening on a regular basis and what needs to be done to deter this from ever happening again? This news is shocking and outrageous and a family and community are left reeling..what will our grand politicians do to STOP THIS happening again!!!!
Please this is not time or place for your comments. They are valid, but please let people use this service to leave messages.
Thankyou.

kirsty, grove park says...
6:11pm Sat 10 May 08

My thoughts are with the family. R.I.P ****

SE London, SE London says...
6:20pm Sat 10 May 08

Another murder of a youth on our streets. This poor young man as lost his life while woking. Something more of our youngster should be doing instead of causing mayhem and murder on our streets. My sympathies and thoughts are with this innocent young mans family and friends. I hope the catch those responsible for this sensless murder and sentence them to,life in prison and throw away the key. They are the lowest of the low tougher sentencing as to be brought in. Stop and search must also continue on the streets of South East London.

Lisa, SE London says...
6:28pm Sat 10 May 08

I agree; But its against their human rights such is the sickness in this country and society called Political Correctness;

SE London, SE London says...
6:28pm Sat 10 May 08

Rest in Peace young man. You will not be forgotten. I feel so sorry for your mum and brother. I never knew any of you but my heart goes out to you all. Such a waste of a innocent young life.

melissa, bexleyheath says...
6:46pm Sat 10 May 08

im just in shock at the minute.. i dont understand.. one of the most genuine boys i ever met.. so bubbly and up for a laugh. All those jokes we had together just feel like yesterday and its hard to think that well never have any again.. you will NEVERR be forgotten babee.. always in our hearts.. A TRUEE FRIEND (L)

My thoughts are with the family and other friends.. X

Siofra, Jessy, lee says...
6:49pm Sat 10 May 08

Jimmie, Omg cant believe your gone, we was with you just last nite screamin 'HI JIM!!' =(
You will be sadly missed by everyone , we love you loadsss, r.i.p babee,,, ****

Dennis, Australia says...
6:53pm Sat 10 May 08

Its horrible. Such senseless violence, something should be done about this sort of thing, i mean if police can't protect us or get there in time... Its criminal, and ambulances always that 5 minutes too late. There should be something else to stop this sort of thing.

hayley wright, mottingham says...
7:04pm Sat 10 May 08

May you rest in peace, hopefully you have gone to a better place. My thoughts and sympathys are with your family and friends .

secret, lee says...
7:11pm Sat 10 May 08

i just missed this incident in lee and was properly at train station when it happened , there was still all police down there at 6:30pm when i arrived back, this area is normaly peaceful and doesnt have much trouble its sad a boy of 16 has died he must have been doing his gcse same as i am , rest in peace my respects to the family of the boy

B, Bromley says...
7:26pm Sat 10 May 08

when i was younger, i was very close friends with jimmy, i am strugling to come to grips with whats happened, it must be so difficult for the mizens who are such lovely people, and who play an important in the local parish.
r.i.p Jimmy

WENDY BARRINGTON, LEE says...
7:46pm Sat 10 May 08

yet another young life stopped in their tracks... my thoughts aare with you jimmy and your family... rest in peasce

Rosemary, Eltham says...
7:50pm Sat 10 May 08

Jimmy,
I cannot get my head round all this. It's not fair. I didn't known you that well but i spoke to you quite a bit...especially last night. You were so lovely Jimmy. You didn't deserve this. My thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family. You will be missed by everyone Jimmy. You will never be forgotten. Love Rosemary
xxxxxxxxxxxx

David S., London says...
7:52pm Sat 10 May 08

The problem can only be addressed if the problem is first acknowledged. Political coreectness is still too strong to allow this to happen so many many more youg people willd ie. I am not convineced that the politiacl corectness will ever go - so the murders in London will soon be in the hundreds of kids and then the thosands in 20 years. The Media will stop reporting them soon. Everyone knows what I mean, but anyone who mentions it will ahve theri comment removed, some have been removed already, I see. They last onl a few minutes here. so, if you want more to die delete this one too.

delete, says...
8:13pm Sat 10 May 08

David S. wrote:
The problem can only be addressed if the problem is first acknowledged. Political coreectness is still too strong to allow this to happen so many many more youg people willd ie. I am not convineced that the politiacl corectness will ever go - so the murders in London will soon be in the hundreds of kids and then the thosands in 20 years. The Media will stop reporting them soon. Everyone knows what I mean, but anyone who mentions it will ahve theri comment removed, some have been removed already, I see. They last onl a few minutes here. so, if you want more to die delete this one too.
David why persist had make stupid comments. This is not the place to make judgments on the political matters. We all understand your concerns and again your points are valid, but here they are not. feel free to start your own blog. but please leave this section for friends to leave messages.

Thankyou

Heather, Lee says...
8:13pm Sat 10 May 08

I have lived in Lee for 8 years and am shocked at what happened today, it's truly horrific. From what I have read from all these messages here this poor lad Jimmy was a very popluar guy. My thoughts are with his family & friends at this very sad time.

Peter, London says...
8:37pm Sat 10 May 08

Delete. Davids's comment is perfectly valid and not stupid. I have reported you for abuse, but I wonder by your anme that you might be the editors, if so I am diappointed by your calling someone stupid.

chris, Lee says...
8:48pm Sat 10 May 08

This incident is terribly sad, and first and foremost my heart goes out to the Mizen family.
Having read the various news items on this, it seems that Jimmy was standing up for himself and others,against someone
who was prepared to behave in a violent and cowardly way.
As we all know, there are huge problems at the moment in London with knife crime, violence and a general breakdown in order - this is a real shame.
As someone who enjoys living in Lee - this is close to home.
The comments above are
incredibly supportive and having read them, and it seems Jimmy was a very popular, likeable and decent guy. Im very sad for Jimmy's family and friends.
Lets hope the culprit is caught and justice prevails.


Sparky, Clapham says...
9:30pm Sat 10 May 08

David’s comment go to the heart of the matter.

With multiple cultures vying for dominance, the difference between right and wrong is no longer clear. And how can it ever be when what’s right in one culture can be wrong in another? What an Englishman inherently knows to be very wrong can be small beer to someone who’s just touched down at Heathrow.

We’re living under a tyranny of political correctness where challenging the ideology of multiculturalism will lead to you losing your job and being branded a fascist. Someone needs to challenge this vile ideology and it needs to come from the top. The Prime Minister or the Queen must defend free speach.

Abbs Family, says...
9:31pm Sat 10 May 08

Terrible news. We know the family - a dear, lovely family. Our prayers are with you tonight. Anything you need please get in touch.

s, eltham says...
9:34pm Sat 10 May 08

i was in the year above jimmy at both primary school and secondary he will be missed dearly its a shame that he did not get to see his last day at st thomas more
RIP jimmy

Barry, London says...
9:38pm Sat 10 May 08

Blessimgs to the family and friends. I am not a vengeful person, but hope the culprit is caught quickly and given a suitable sentence. I might ask that a better descrition be given by the police and media rather than 'male youth'. The male youth would possibly be caught more easily if such were done,I'm sure more is known about him, and he now presents a danger to others and to himself as he is wanted for murder. I feel he should go to prison for at least a year for this terrible act where he can reflect on his deed and hope on his release he becomes a good and successful citizen.

Sarah, lee says...
10:01pm Sat 10 May 08

I was at the train station when this happened i would of been just getting on the train its scarry coz i walked past there brfore it happened well like 30 mins before it happened and i didnt come back untill 6:00pm and there was police and we couldnt get throuth we got told "there has been an incident in the bakers" and we had to go and walk around the long was

Marianne Bick, Lee says...
10:02pm Sat 10 May 08

A whole array of emotions raced through me when I heard of this horrendous crime, and my thoughts and prayers go to Jimmy’s family, whom I know. A nicer family you could not find, they are so friendly, loving and close knit.

I was angry, horrified, sad, frustrated and felt powerless at yet another senseless death of a very decent young man. Jimmy is the victim of our society’s failings and inability to stop crime. I feel that 40 years of liberal education standards and the ever present meddling of the state has produced youngsters who want instant gratification and when denied it will resort to violence to get what they want. The failings lie squarely with society who turns a blind eye when minor infractions are committed or dare not speak up for fear of retaliation. “Must not upset the little darlings” when they are young with parents (whatever half is raising them) pandering to their offspring’s’ whims and wishes for a quiet life instead of setting boundaries and teaching them that no means just that, NO, results in unruly adults unable to distinguish between right and wrong.

How many more Jimmy’s before this government stops talking about getting tough on crime. This community bold wants action against crime NOT WORDS.

Hugh E Torrance, London says...
10:05pm Sat 10 May 08

Its true political correctness is killing the youth of this once noble country and censors are as much to blame for extinguishing the truth for fear of losing their jobs or offending their politically correct masters.
For Jimmy,I can say,those who lose their life will find it...those who find their life will lose it.

claire, Kent says...
10:11pm Sat 10 May 08

another tragic loss of a youth with his whole life in front of him. i feel for my 2 x cousins who i believe knew Jimmy. RIP x

claire, Kent says...
10:13pm Sat 10 May 08

Another tragic loss of life - he had his whole life in front of him. condolances go to his family & friends, and also my 2 x cousins who i believe went to Tommy Moores with Jimmy. RIP x

RJC, Lee says...
10:17pm Sat 10 May 08

Can only echo what others including the Abbs family have said above.
Thoughts and Prayers with the family whom I know very well.

heloise, Eltham says...
10:19pm Sat 10 May 08

jimmy..you are a one and only friend! you have been a true friend to me from the start and deserved a brilliant life. you are the most loving caring friend that i have ever met. drama will never be the same again and monday everyone will be thinking of you gracefully and our thoughts are with the familly. my goodbyes are in your heart and our preys. LOVE YOU JIMMY xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Lisa, SE London says...
10:20pm Sat 10 May 08

I ABSOLUTELY agree with you Marianne on every point; My four kids are 17; 14; 6 and 4; When my ex hubby rang me to tell me not to be concerned as the 17 and 14 year old who live in flats right near the bakers were alright i was relieved it wasnt mine; But Jimmy was somebodys son and somebodys sibling; RIP Jimmy; Its tragic and its wrong and its so so terribly sad; :(

Max, Lee says...
10:37pm Sat 10 May 08

There was a post saying the killer was a black youth. Does anyone know if that is true? The post has been deleted.


Lyle Howe, Lee, Burnt Ash Hill says...
10:40pm Sat 10 May 08

I'm so shocked this has happend and so close to near where i live. I didnt witness the attack but when i got home i could see a Virgin Helicopter circulating above my home and then landed near by. I was wondering what had happend, but my brother works at the door shop in Burnt Ash Hill and he told me what had happend.
R.I.P - Jimmy Mizen

Miss Angry, says...
10:53pm Sat 10 May 08

paul godfrey wrote:
Miss Angry wrote: Unless N/S has a technical problem I can only assume my comment was censored. I fully understand why people have a need to express their sorrow and sympathy at this sort of tragedy. But the media should also allow us to express our anger that this sort of thing keeps happening more and more frequently as the months tick by. Children are killing children, what is going on? Why is this happening on a regular basis and what needs to be done to deter this from ever happening again? This news is shocking and outrageous and a family and community are left reeling..what will our grand politicians do to STOP THIS happening again!!!!
Please this is not time or place for your comments. They are valid, but please let people use this service to leave messages. Thankyou.
A similar comment like the one in response to David by 'Delete'. This is not an obituary page, it is a comment page and it is not subject to the victim's friends and family only. People are angry! Your polite thankyou caused me some respect to remain quiet for awhile but now that you are trying to silence others into keeping their views to themselves I think it is you, Paul, who should show a little more tolerance and respect for people to have free speech and express their views on this site. If you still disagree please tell me where and when I should voice my views if not here on a comment page of a local paper?

To the family and friends of the young man who tragically lost his life today my heart goes out to you, I can't imagine the pain and loss this tragedy has caused you. This should never ever ever have happened and there is something vastly wrong with this country for its youths to be able to reek such devastation on the lives of others, law and order must be an issue here as well, so please well wishers and mourners grant others space to air their views...this is terrible!!!

secret, se london says...
10:58pm Sat 10 May 08

My cousin was workin in da bakery as it happened, she saw everythin! i feel 4 every1 involved n of course especially da family of da poor young boy, another person innocently taken away!! rest in peace jimmy!

Chris, Catford says...
11:13pm Sat 10 May 08

I did not know him personally but his family are a much loved part of the community and I went to school with one of his brothers.

Your family will be in my thoughts and prayers; may you rest in peace.

Hugh E Torrance, London says...
11:25pm Sat 10 May 08

Posted by: Miss Angry on 10:53pm today

You are absolutely right... good post.

Mark, Lewisham says...
11:31pm Sat 10 May 08

Another tragic killing, thoughts are with the family at this time. I am a police officer covering this area, time and time again we are accused of abusing our power when we stop and search people, we also have to fill out a form each and everytime, this month I have taken 5 knives off the streets but yet again the 'punishment' handed out at youth court is hardly a deterent. Perhaps with support from the public and goverment when can prevent more tragic loss of life.

Tim, South East London says...
11:50pm Sat 10 May 08

My boy has just told me that he knew the boy who was tragically killed.
What on earth is going on?
My heart felt sympathies go out to the family.
When I was there age we had plenty of fights but not like this, we had punch ups and that was that.
Something has to be done.
Stop the talking and act now before other families are grieving a loved one.
It makes me sick that nothing is being done about this, there is plenty of talk and no action.
That is the fact. Members of Parliament should be ashamed of themselves.
The reason nothing is done is because they do not have children who grow up on the streets of London.
Get real and act.

sharon shuter, lewisham says...
11:57pm Sat 10 May 08

So sad this is awful, the poor family and the boy how scared must he of been.. let prayers help the family...
To much crime.. it gives u no faith in society.. Only on tuesday this week i was caught up trying 2 help people in a mass fight in leahurst road lewisham i was nearly stabbed they missed me and stabbed a young male what has happened 2 the world!!! he survived only a flesh wound god bless!!!!

Curious, SE London says...
12:17am Sun 11 May 08

Sparky wrote:
David’s comment go to the heart of the matter.

With multiple cultures vying for dominance, the difference between right and wrong is no longer clear. And how can it ever be when what’s right in one culture can be wrong in another? What an Englishman inherently knows to be very wrong can be small beer to someone who’s just touched down at Heathrow.

We’re living under a tyranny of political correctness where challenging the ideology of multiculturalism will lead to you losing your job and being branded a fascist. Someone needs to challenge this vile ideology and it needs to come from the top. The Prime Minister or the Queen must defend free speach.
WTF has this got to do with it?! I can only assume you have inside information that the person who killed this lad had "just touched down at Heathrow"? I hope you've informed the police. Perhaps not, perhaps you're just an idiot. And from Clapham...why are you even on this website?

Paul, home says...
12:36am Sun 11 May 08

Miss Angry wrote:
paul godfrey wrote:
Miss Angry wrote: Unless N/S has a technical problem I can only assume my comment was censored. I fully understand why people have a need to express their sorrow and sympathy at this sort of tragedy. But the media should also allow us to express our anger that this sort of thing keeps happening more and more frequently as the months tick by. Children are killing children, what is going on? Why is this happening on a regular basis and what needs to be done to deter this from ever happening again? This news is shocking and outrageous and a family and community are left reeling..what will our grand politicians do to STOP THIS happening again!!!!
Please this is not time or place for your comments. They are valid, but please let people use this service to leave messages. Thankyou.
A similar comment like the one in response to David by \'Delete\'. This is not an obituary page, it is a comment page and it is not subject to the victim\'s friends and family only. People are angry! Your polite thankyou caused me some respect to remain quiet for awhile but now that you are trying to silence others into keeping their views to themselves I think it is you, Paul, who should show a little more tolerance and respect for people to have free speech and express their views on this site. If you still disagree please tell me where and when I should voice my views if not here on a comment page of a local paper?

To the family and friends of the young man who tragically lost his life today my heart goes out to you, I can\'t imagine the pain and loss this tragedy has caused you. This should never ever ever have happened and there is something vastly wrong with this country for its youths to be able to reek such devastation on the lives of others, law and order must be an issue here as well, so please well wishers and mourners grant others space to air their views...this is terrible!!!
I'm sorry Miss Angry that you feel i am trying to stop your freedom of speech, i do agree with everything you are saying as i say it myself. But it is choosing when to use that freedom of speech maybe i have taken the comments to heart because i was in the bakery and cannot shut out the shocking images that i witnessed today and the absolute despair on the faces off every one around me.

In response to your question where can we voice our freedom of speech, i think it would be good to have a forum that we can use to its full extent.

Thanks

cassie, bromley says...
12:46am Sun 11 May 08

Something has to be done. Stop the talking and act now before other families are grieving a loved one.
It makes me sick that nothing is being done about this, there is plenty of talk and no action...Members of Parliament should be ashamed of themselves.


yes tim, well said, i totally agree

rip jimmy mizen, love and sincere condolences to your family and friends x

Jester, says...
1:11am Sun 11 May 08

Enough.

Zero tolerance, Mister Johnson. The decent people of London DEMAND it.
Get the scum off the streets NOW!

Rachel, says...
1:28am Sun 11 May 08

Paul, we all understand that you are probably traumatised by what you witnessed, reading about a tragic incident in the local paper is nothing like the devastation and horror of actually being at the scene and fruitlessly trying to help. I Have been served by jimmy in the bakery, and he wasnt a lanky or stocky 16 year old, he was slender and still boyish, Paul we realise you saw a person who was little more than a child fatally wounded, our feelings go out to the family but we also realise anyone who was actually there will need our sypathies and best wishes too. Paul dont be ashamed to take your time before going back to work, and find someone you trust to talk to, dont hold your feelings in.

rip, LEE says...
2:14am Sun 11 May 08

SAD SAD DAY FOR EVERYONE
JUST CNAT HELP THINKING WHO WILL BE NEXT , THE STREETS ARE NOT SAFE ANYMORE

RIP JIMMY

Lesley, Lee says...
2:54am Sun 11 May 08

Words fail me.

RIP Jimmy.

My thoughts are with the family and those that are affected by this tragic death.


stand together or die alone, Chislehurst says...
8:21am Sun 11 May 08

another waste of a young human life, extingusihed by needless violence.
But blaming the politicians the police or a multi racial society is just ridiculas ! No amount of police presence on our streets and no increase in sentancing etc etc etc, is going to stop some young thug losing it, taking a weapon and then taking someones life.
This is a direct result of society not caring, a society which allows pensioners to die in their homes undiscovered for days weeks and sometimes even months, a society where a man can lie dead in a busy market square and no one even care enough to check on him.
Jimmy cared enough, he cared enough to step in and try and calm down a difficult situation, he paid for that with his life. If a few more of us cared enough there would be no hiding place for the killers and the scum would be handed over in a matter of hours to face justice, which itself is a joke, but thats another story.

Oh and b4 someone tries to tell me this doesnt belong here.....its a web page to comment on the story, not an obituary page, it is you that are in the wrong.

anon, orpington says...
8:49am Sun 11 May 08

Sitting here with my 8 year old son and 3 year old daughter, tears rolling down my face, I didn't even know Jimmy or the Mizen family, I'm just a mum trying to get my head round a young lad celebrating his birthday the previous evening, getting up for work, when his life was stolen from him. It scares me to the core to look at my children and wonder what their future holds.... Something must be done to protect our kids- and that is most definitely a human right.

RIP Jimmy and to the family and friends of this young man my sincere condolences for your tragic loss, be strong for each other.


pink, bexley says...
9:28am Sun 11 May 08

This is a very tragic loss for the family,this sounds to me as though this person who ever done this is either mentally ill or just another silly idiot trying to get into a gang and has done this by there orders or part of his innitiation.
Like i say tragic loss but this country is full of sponge brains who think joining any gang is great 2 words for people like that
"NO HOPERS"

Max, England says...
10:38am Sun 11 May 08

We are living in a violent third world cesspit, and the future will not get any better I can assure you if those who have ruled over us for the past few decades are allowed to continue in their mission and desire to bring about the total destruction of British society.

We as a people have become weak, easily-led, undisciplined, lazy, uncaring, aimless, selfish and materialistic. We have lost that oneness that made us unique; put bluntly we are non-British when judged against past British societies: And that was always the plan and we swallowed it hook, line and sinker without even lifting so much as a little finger in our own defence.

We must awake to what has happened, and guard against what will happen in the future. We must unite and stand fast against this tyranny, and these tyrants who care only for their own selfish aims.

When I read that story of that young lad my blood literally boiled as I have a 15 year old son myself, and the thought of him not coming home from just going to the shops, and breathing his last on some shop floor saturated in his own blood drives me insane.

I want change, I want the scum removed from society, I want justice and I want retribution!

I want Britain to be British!

And God willing, one day I will have it.


max

Peter Folkes, London says...
10:43am Sun 11 May 08

Why is there no description of the killer don`t they want to catch him.

ex-liberal, watford says...
10:52am Sun 11 May 08

Peter Folkes wrote:
Why is there no description of the killer don`t they want to catch him.
Just what I was thinking. If they gave his race it would narrow things down a bit.

Dan, london says...
10:53am Sun 11 May 08

A male youth ?

Perhaps there could be a more accurate description, which would help find this person ?


Sue, Bromley says...
11:51am Sun 11 May 08

My thoughts are with the family of this young man. What an awful thing to happen to any family.

The article say's the suspect was seen heading towards Burnt Ash Lane, Well that may explain why who ever is deleteing comments and calling people stupid is trying to stop comments as such.
Newsshopper appear to operate a news blackout on this area, they rarely report on anything down here. The 'gangs' are here from all over, drug dealing done openly on occassions and decent peoples lives made a misery because they have to put up with it.
I will be surprised if this comment is not deleted also.
So newsshopper, why?

Kinalp, Dorking says...
12:09pm Sun 11 May 08

god bless you Jimmy, i knew you from new dawn as you and your familly often helped my dad with the familly camp, you were always smiling, helpful and would do anything for anyone, im not sure about alot of things in life but know this that the world will be at a loss with you now gone.
Rip Jimmy Mizen and my thoughts and prayers go out to you and your famiiy at this time.

Miss Angry, says...
12:10pm Sun 11 May 08

My kindest regards and sympathy to Paul who witnessed this terrible scene. I hope you can come to terms with yesterday's horror and pain and learn to move on in your life. x

S.T.O.D.A. and Max I work in the rescue services and our main objective is to save lives. Britain is FULL of GOOD people who still have a good sense of morals and standards. I work among many courageous and willing people who I would trust with my life. I do agree with you that society is at fault here, but also the system we are under as a whole has some bearing on the downward spiral of moral decency. You cannot blame the police, the politician or the public alone, but as a whole in its failure to discourage serious crime. We do need to act as a whole, re-educate people on scruples and tighten up the legal system and policing system, (cut out the bull'), that would support the police and society as a whole!

But finally the ultimate blame and penalty must rest heavily on the shoulders of the killer himself. I hope he is caught and convicted asap!


Ali, Eltham says...
12:20pm Sun 11 May 08

I am shocked. My thoughts are with Jimmy's family. The life is wasted. I have read all posts here, people are suggesting different things. All are right. But I think - we as a society must start acting. Acting from family level to teach our children to respect other people. and from keeping pressure on authorities to stop political correctness, untie hands of police, and remove criminals off the streets. By starting doings these, we show respect to Jim and all other young people whose life was wasted. R.i.p. Jim. and my thoughts are with Jim's family.

H, says...
12:21pm Sun 11 May 08

http://www.facebook.

com/group.php?gid=21

133200118&ref=share

Join the RIP Jimmy Mizen group & show your support, pay your respects.

Sarah Davies, Lee says...
12:29pm Sun 11 May 08

It is very sad that we have reached a point that when the media deliberately withholds details of the race of a suspect, everyone knows that it is being done out of political correctness.

We should not use this dreadful crime to make political points. However, a much loved young man has lost his life and a family has been destroyed.

His killer has to be caught and stopped from doing it again to another family. That surely is more important than political correctness.

Sarah Davies, Lee says...
12:48pm Sun 11 May 08

I have converted the facebook link into a tinyURL to make it easier for people to use here, just copy and paste this into your browser:
http://tinyurl.com/5
dh5gg


Stranger, Da1 says...
12:49pm Sun 11 May 08

Whenever a crime like this happens there is this huge outcry for the government to 'do something about it'. The government can make as many laws as they wish that are aimed to punish people for wrongdoing. They cannot, and will never be able to, change peoples mindsets. If any individual chooses to committ a crime nothing this government can do will stop them. Yes the government can bring in new sentencing guidlines, make prison sentences longer but they can never stop crime happening.

A couple of weeks ago i watched Casualty 1907 and in the titles at the beginning it claimed that murder by stabbing or gun was a frequent occurence in the streets of London even back then. Things haven't changed. What has chaned is that now these crimes are reported more widely and faster. Thus a crime that occurs at 9.00 am will be in the news by 10.00 am.

My sympathies go out to the family of this young man. Nothing will ever replace him and the pain will never go away.

Dave, London se says...
1:09pm Sun 11 May 08

my sympathies go out to all his family and friends sounds like a very well liked young lad, so very sad.
does anyone have a better idea what the suspect looked like hight colour ect?

Sarah Davies, Lee says...
1:13pm Sun 11 May 08

With due respect stranger but whenever, these things happen we are always told that our society has always been violent.

However, the fact is that the numbers of children murdered on our streets are escalating beyond anything in living memory.

Stabbings and murder may have been common in 1907 before the welfare state and at a time of mass poverty.

However, that was not the case in 1957, 1967 or 1977, in fact even ten years ago it was nothing like it is today.


Anna M, alfjjddk says...
1:24pm Sun 11 May 08

I was so saddened to hear of this tragic case. It is unbelieveable what happens in this day and age. I hope that somehow Jimmy's family are managing. You have been in my thoughts over the last day.

Emma, Eltham says...
1:27pm Sun 11 May 08

The person who did this would have had blood on him and been in an agitated state for some hours after, it is vital that a true discription is made public so that any suspicions people may have had yesterday about someone they know or something they saw stay fresh.
Why is the discription so vague when there were so many witnesses, 24 hours after this happened?


RIP Jimmy, taken way before your time. What a tragic waste of life.
Love and prayers to his family for your loss.

god help us, says...
1:27pm Sun 11 May 08

The politically correct press have blood on their hands and not for the first time by deliberately not giving out the full details needed including ethnicity of the attackers in order to solve the crime and help witnesses to come forward.

It is a disgrace inflicted on us all by the liberal fascists.

H, says...
1:28pm Sun 11 May 08

thank you sarah - please join and show how much we all care & pay our respects.

Tina, London says...
1:39pm Sun 11 May 08

Boris Johnson won't get the young killers off the streets. He is trying to be too politically correct as his party only needs to worry about Labour who are also fighting to be the most politicaaly correct, even if 200 kids are killed this eyar, the 2 major parties are not focused on addressing this issue, as few votes are to be gained, and they fear cries of racism, anti-foreign, anti this anti that more than killings. We will ahve to get used to the teenage killings - believe they will top 50 this year and 100 next. I wonder if I will be deleted for telling the truth, after all others have been

Dave, London se says...
1:39pm Sun 11 May 08

Sarah, makes a valid point.

rhory fraser, blackheath says...
1:47pm Sun 11 May 08

Why no proper description of the knife-wielding murderer? Umm, I wonder? Can't be non-PC can we?

nat, says...
2:19pm Sun 11 May 08

Max wrote:
We are living in a violent third world cesspit, and the future will not get any better I can assure you if those who have ruled over us for the past few decades are allowed to continue in their mission and desire to bring about the total destruction of British society. We as a people have become weak, easily-led, undisciplined, lazy, uncaring, aimless, selfish and materialistic. We have lost that oneness that made us unique; put bluntly we are non-British when judged against past British societies: And that was always the plan and we swallowed it hook, line and sinker without even lifting so much as a little finger in our own defence. We must awake to what has happened, and guard against what will happen in the future. We must unite and stand fast against this tyranny, and these tyrants who care only for their own selfish aims. When I read that story of that young lad my blood literally boiled as I have a 15 year old son myself, and the thought of him not coming home from just going to the shops, and breathing his last on some shop floor saturated in his own blood drives me insane. I want change, I want the scum removed from society, I want justice and I want retribution! I want Britain to be British! And God willing, one day I will have it. max
Well said!
RIP Jim xxx

Sian, Welling says...
2:21pm Sun 11 May 08

Jimmy, you were such a lovely boy. All the memories from Spain and in school will always be with me. Everyone is in complete shock at the moment. You were the most genuine boys i know - always up for a laugh and always smiling. Leavers day on Monday is going to be so weird now. Im going to miss you loads! You will never be forgotten. Love you always! ****

Dradford, Londonistan says...
2:26pm Sun 11 May 08

Why is there no description of the suspect? Are we supposed to just forget that he's still on the loose, looking for his next victim, no doubt?
Am I correct in saying that ALL of the murders by 'youths' in London this year, were committed by non-white 'youths'?

Sue, says...
2:27pm Sun 11 May 08

If the killer is on the Burnt Ash Lane Area you won't hear any more about him.
There appears to have been plenty of witnesses, so why is there not a description?
Emma is quite right, a description should go out while this horrific murder is still fresh in peoples minds. Sat morning, lots of people were around, someone could have seen something away from the scene. The scum went somewhere, there were lots of people on Burnt Ash Lane also who could have seen something if he is in that vicinity. Doesn't matter if he's black or white, the white kids go round talking and walking like blacks anyway, hoods up so you cant see their faces, cowards that they are. Scum is scum in any colour or race.

angus, uk says...
2:41pm Sun 11 May 08

'a man in his twenties' is a poor description of the attacker.Surely a better one can be printed?

Sue, says...
2:41pm Sun 11 May 08

Police have just given a statement on tv. They have not given any description of the suspect, but they are keeping an open mind on who he is. They have searched a number of addresses, they do want to hear from a witness who was inside the shop at the time of the attack who may have vital details, he is described as middle age white male and has not yet come forward.
It was not gang related but a very vicious unprovoked attack.

Dave, London se says...
2:47pm Sun 11 May 08

Well at least we know the colour of the witness, ffs the police and media have a lot to answer to.
they are helping the suspect.

Ali, Eltham says...
3:24pm Sun 11 May 08

I believe that this place is to express due respect to Jim and his devastated family. And act to pressure authorities to do a better job. and also to awaken families and society to spend more time to educate their children. But I believe this is not place for discussing color or trying to do some other guesses. There are good detectives out there who do this. Criminals dont have a specific color. they can be of any color. Having said this, lets keep respect to Jim's family and dont turn this place as place for political discussion or other fast conclusions.

Colin Smith, SE London says...
3:42pm Sun 11 May 08

RIP Jim. Another savage murder. When will the police and authorities come down hard on the bullies who are making life in London intolerable for most working people.

I description of the attacker would be useful. The omission of a description is the same old press and polcie censorship we have become so famliar with.

Col

Awake To This, 712-028 says...
3:44pm Sun 11 May 08

Well Ali, the colour may not be important per se (although I'm sure it would help in nailing this psychopath)- but had the victim had been black, and the assailant white... Well... I'm sure you can imagine...

It is the controlled media who are setting up a race war- mark my words- they have no love of black people.

I am not white. :)

Sue, Bromley says...
3:55pm Sun 11 May 08

Colin A description would be very helpful if police want witnesses. Like I already said, there were lots of people around sat am, someone may have seen something, the scum went somewhere.
To Awake: It really doesn't matter what colour he is, it's hard to tell the difference these days, scum is scum in any colour or race.
So police lets have a description and lets find him.

Dee, Kidbrooke says...
4:03pm Sun 11 May 08

I am so saddened by the news of the terrible and tragic loss of Jimmy, a hard working and wonderful young man. May God keep you close to his side and you soar with the Angels. My thoughts and prayers are with his family.
RIP Jimmy x

A Mother and fellow Christian, says...
4:06pm Sun 11 May 08

God has called you home,
To be with him on high.
To be with his other Angels,
To soar across the sky.
The lives you've touched we will cherish,
The memories of your gentle heart.
Knowing, but not understanding, why You had to part.
We'll miss your sunshine smile
But knowing all the while
That you'll be there to greet us
When we walk our last mile.
The Heavens have a brighter light,
Because you're glowing there.
Free, from this world, with no burdens
Left to bear.
You reached out to others with tender
Loving care.
But God has called you home,
Because, he missed you there.

To Jimmy's Parents, I am so so sorry for the loss of your Son.
I hope your Faith in the Lord will help You with the great pain and sadness You are feeling.
This was not God's will, Remember the shortest verse in the Bible "God wept", well Our Lord is crying with You today.
God bless you, You will be in my Prayers xx

JD, london says...
4:12pm Sun 11 May 08

GIVE US A DESCRIPTION OF THE ATTACKER!!!

Or someone at least post it to help catch this sick monster before he strikes again.

Mary, Sidcup Kent says...
4:15pm Sun 11 May 08

Your life was cut short
I still don’t know why,
why were you chosen,
Why did you have to die.
Surely it’s wrong,
and god was mistaken,
Or does he insist,
it’s only the best that are taken.

RIP Young man, i didnt know you or you family but this is just so sad and i felt i needing to write something X X X

Peter, Canada says...
4:19pm Sun 11 May 08

I used to live in South London for 45 years and was utterly shocked to read of this senseless act against a very decent boy.
My deepest condolences to his family.
I too was a victim of several street attacks whilst in London but it happens alot everywhere.
In the past 8 years i've seen a huge increase in senseless murders involving completely innocent people in Ontario/Canada.
You CAN'T legislate against them.
It doesn't make ANY difference who you vote for.
You'd have to be mind reader to know who is going to commit murder.
It's just a horrible sign of the times.

SE London, SE London says...
4:23pm Sun 11 May 08

If you know the attacker please hand him in. A life has been taken. So unfair and injust.

cs, eltham says...
4:33pm Sun 11 May 08

i know people who knew him and he was a nice lad, its near my school as well. it is a waste of a decent life and it seems to familiar that a young life is being taken for no reason. Who ever did this is sick and needs to be arrested. Any one who knows anything tell the police. he needs to be caught!!!!!!!!!

Sarah Davies, Lee says...
5:02pm Sun 11 May 08

I don't think that is fair, a lot of people, especially those of us who live locally are very concerned about this and want the suspect apprehended, and that is less likely to happen if the media and the police are withholding important information.

In a multi-racial city, a description which gives only age and sex is not a description.

The Eye of Mordor, watford says...
5:14pm Sun 11 May 08

If the police want the publics help finding the scum who did this why are we not being given a full description - 'a male youth' . Oh yes that narrows it down ... RIP Jimmy

McLerh, says...
5:15pm Sun 11 May 08

Political-correctnes
s being used for murder suspects now? By god, the worlds gone mad.

Jenny, Blackheath says...
5:15pm Sun 11 May 08

I'm not usually shocked any more. It happens so often now, but I cried today when I read of what happened to James. I can't begin to imagine how his poor mum and brother are feeling or the long struggle that lies ahead for all the family. Nothing can ever be the same again when a young person is taken and when that happens violently it's a living nightmare. To all the family I can only say "I'm so sorry". Your son must have made a huge impact on the people he knew as I have never seen so many tributes to someone on a website so soon after their passing. God Bless James

Tony, Eltham says...
6:40pm Sun 11 May 08

My thoughts are with the family.

Jeremy Pender, Market Weighton, East Riding of Yorkshire says...
6:42pm Sun 11 May 08

One consequence of the News Shopper's reporters taking Sunday off and not giving us an update since yesterday is that lots of readers have been posting here to quite reasonably enquire why the police have released no useful description of the suspect. However, if you go to a more recent article, such as the one at http://www.timesonli
ne.co.uk/tol/news/uk
/crime/article391167
3.ece, you'll see that the police already know who they want. It's just that he's gone into hiding! That said, it would have helped if one of Detective Chief Inspector Lyons's people had been able to spare us a moment today for a quick update.

Sue, Bromley says...
6:54pm Sun 11 May 08

DCI Lyons did give an interview on sky this afternoon, I got the impression he knew who he was looking for and he also said a number of properties had been searched, BUT my point is if they were to give a full description or better still a name in connection with this awful crime then it would enable the local people to help and keep an eye out.
IF he is in the BURNT ASH ROAD areaI'm sure the decent people living in and around would soon tell police if he was seen.
SHAME ON THE PERSON/PEOPLE WHO ARE SHIELDING HIM, BE IT FAMILY OR FRIEND, WOULD YOU BE SO QUICK TO HIDE HIM IF IT WAS ONE OF YOUR KIDS??

Matt J, says...
7:00pm Sun 11 May 08

Give a proper physical description of the murderer, please. If the police can reveal that a witness they want is White they should be able to reveal the race of the attacker so there will be a better chance of catching him. Do they want to catch this guy or not?

Pat, Lee says...
7:21pm Sun 11 May 08

This sounds like a horrible and senseless attack in an area I've always considered a safe place to live. I'd like to offer the family my condolences.

Sue, Bromley says...
7:21pm Sun 11 May 08

Exactly how would it help if police said the suspect was black or white? It really makes no difference.
He is still a very dangerous individual with a very nasty streak in him and he needs to be taken out of circulation.
A full and detailed description is required. The police are saying they want the publics help to catch this low life, then give us some help please, and tell us exactly what we are looking for.

natalie, woodyates lee says...
7:35pm Sun 11 May 08

Sue wrote:
DCI Lyons did give an interview on sky this afternoon, I got the impression he knew who he was looking for and he also said a number of properties had been searched, BUT my point is if they were to give a full description or better still a name in connection with this awful crime then it would enable the local people to help and keep an eye out.
IF he is in the BURNT ASH ROAD areaI\\\\\\\'m sure the decent people living in and around would soon tell police if he was seen.
SHAME ON THE PERSON/PEOPLE WHO ARE SHIELDING HIM, BE IT FAMILY OR FRIEND, WOULD YOU BE SO QUICK TO HIDE HIM IF IT WAS ONE OF YOUR KIDS??
SO SO true this scum may have done it but the person shielding him are just as bad..... He is a local lad this road is not like bromley or lewisham you really only go into them shops if your local. He ran into the red brick estate and he knew that well cause he vanished so he knew where to go... Now that estate people keep themselves to themselves but i would not be surprised if they come from there as i do see alot of young males hanging on the estate up to know good YOU PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO KNOW YOUR JUST AS BAD. You may be bragging to your mates and you may think your free but soon your be in prison and when you come out no one willl give you a job and if anyone has got any sense know one will talk to you.. so you have ruined your life and someone elses GOOD ONE!!!!!

Jeremy Pender, Market Weighton, East Riding of Yorkshire says...
7:35pm Sun 11 May 08

Fair comment, Sue in Bromley, and I've now emailed DCI Lyons as follows:

"Hello. It looks from several of the reader postings at http://www.newsshopp
er.co.uk/news/topsto
ries/display.var.226
2339.0.0.php that you have the makings of a public-relations problem, and you or one of your staff may now care to take the opportunity to try to put things right."

Gem, says...
7:41pm Sun 11 May 08

Paul wrote:
Miss Angry wrote:
paul godfrey wrote:
Miss Angry wrote: Unless N/S has a technical problem I can only assume my comment was censored. I fully understand why people have a need to express their sorrow and sympathy at this sort of tragedy. But the media should also allow us to express our anger that this sort of thing keeps happening more and more frequently as the months tick by. Children are killing children, what is going on? Why is this happening on a regular basis and what needs to be done to deter this from ever happening again? This news is shocking and outrageous and a family and community are left reeling..what will our grand politicians do to STOP THIS happening again!!!!
Please this is not time or place for your comments. They are valid, but please let people use this service to leave messages. Thankyou.
A similar comment like the one in response to David by \'Delete\'. This is not an obituary page, it is a comment page and it is not subject to the victim\'s friends and family only. People are angry! Your polite thankyou caused me some respect to remain quiet for awhile but now that you are trying to silence others into keeping their views to themselves I think it is you, Paul, who should show a little more tolerance and respect for people to have free speech and express their views on this site. If you still disagree please tell me where and when I should voice my views if not here on a comment page of a local paper? To the family and friends of the young man who tragically lost his life today my heart goes out to you, I can\'t imagine the pain and loss this tragedy has caused you. This should never ever ever have happened and there is something vastly wrong with this country for its youths to be able to reek such devastation on the lives of others, law and order must be an issue here as well, so please well wishers and mourners grant others space to air their views...this is terrible!!!
I'm sorry Miss Angry that you feel i am trying to stop your freedom of speech, i do agree with everything you are saying as i say it myself. But it is choosing when to use that freedom of speech maybe i have taken the comments to heart because i was in the bakery and cannot shut out the shocking images that i witnessed today and the absolute despair on the faces off every one around me. In response to your question where can we voice our freedom of speech, i think it would be good to have a forum that we can use to its full extent. Thanks
Hello PAUL . Is it possible that you may be THE WITNESS police are looking for?

Andyj, Wigan, UK says...
8:11pm Sun 11 May 08

Its about time our prisons were installed in the Sahara desert. Plenty of room to separate every faction. This way heaven and hell will judge the value of each type when each try to make their lives more bearable. Any raiding will be met by machine gun practice by the army.

The race arguments over political correctness will then be moot.

Poor kid :(

Michael, London says...
8:49pm Sun 11 May 08

There have been some suggestions here that the killer may not be White. This is impoosible as there were eyewitnesses and the police have issued a statlement that they see a 'male youth'. This assumes a White male or else the police would be guilty of issuing a description that would be misleading and therefore endangering peoples lives. It is, perhaps, the case that 'white male' should have been used, but everyone knows that this must be the case, it is implied, after all the country is over 90 per cent White. The police and the government would not lay down false trails and try to help the killer - surely no one here believes the government and the police want the killer to escape. They have also not said that there may have been a rcist motive which they always do when the kiiller and victim are of different races, for eaxample the Stephen Lawrence murder. People should have more faith in our government.

Barry, London says...
9:03pm Sun 11 May 08

Sarah Davies wrote:
With due respect stranger but whenever, these things happen we are always told that our society has always been violent. However, the fact is that the numbers of children murdered on our streets are escalating beyond anything in living memory. Stabbings and murder may have been common in 1907 before the welfare state and at a time of mass poverty. However, that was not the case in 1957, 1967 or 1977, in fact even ten years ago it was nothing like it is today.
I have looked into crime in the past and have a degree in History. The 1907 generation are no longer with us to contradict the suggestion you make. I do it for them. Murder (and stabbings)were far rarer in 1907 in London than all the other dates given. Poverty has got nothing to do with it. Violent crime is much higher now, and the killings of teenageres by other teenagers was rare over the the last 1000 years in Britain, but is escaling raidly over the last few years, though in only a few areas so far. There is certainly nothing similar occuring in Germany and Switzerland, two countries I know well.

Waspy, says...
9:26pm Sun 11 May 08

@Michael, 8:49pm

If the race of the suspect goes without saying then why did they mention a middle-aged white witness?

Why give the race of the witness but not the race of the attacker?

Sarah Davies, Lee says...
9:27pm Sun 11 May 08

Michael wrote:
There have been some suggestions here that the killer may not be White. This is impoosible as there were eyewitnesses and the police have issued a statlement that they see a 'male youth'. This assumes a White male or else the police would be guilty of issuing a description that would be misleading and therefore endangering peoples lives. It is, perhaps, the case that 'white male' should have been used, but everyone knows that this must be the case, it is implied, after all the country is over 90 per cent White. The police and the government would not lay down false trails and try to help the killer - surely no one here believes the government and the police want the killer to escape. They have also not said that there may have been a rcist motive which they always do when the kiiller and victim are of different races, for eaxample the Stephen Lawrence murder. People should have more faith in our government.
Either you have been living on a separate planet or you are being deliberately disingenuous. For the last twenty years it has become routine for the press to seek to suppress the race of a suspect when that suspect is non white.

This is especially the case when the victim is white.

They believe that by seeking to downplay the level of non-white violence particularly against whites, they are promoting community cohesion.

The killer could be white, but the fact that his race has not been disclosed suggests otherwise.

Sam, says...
9:32pm Sun 11 May 08

Waspy wrote:
@Michael, 8:49pm If the race of the suspect goes without saying then why did they mention a middle-aged white witness? Why give the race of the witness but not the race of the attacker?
Presumably because the description of the witness will clarify who they mean and encourage that person to come forward.

The race/description of the suspect is not required to help identify him because the police already know who he is.

Waspy, says...
9:44pm Sun 11 May 08

Sam wrote:
Waspy wrote:
@Michael, 8:49pm If the race of the suspect goes without saying then why did they mention a middle-aged white witness? Why give the race of the witness but not the race of the attacker?
Presumably because the description of the witness will clarify who they mean and encourage that person to come forward.

The race/description of the suspect is not required to help identify him because the police already know who he is.
They might know who he is but they don't have him in custody.

The description should be given to alert other people in the area. If they spot the suspect they can then contact the police.

By not given an detailed description they are making it harder to capture him.

Martin, martin.baker@yahoo.c om says...
9:50pm Sun 11 May 08

The White middle class witness knows he is a witness and that he should come forward so why hasn't he. By not giving a proper description of the killer, the witness may, quite understandably, be reluctant to get involved and perceive his life in danger if he does. After all, it may seem to him that the police can't be trusted. They try to identify him accurately with their description which puts him at risk, and puts pressure on him,but not the killer, who are they trying to protect? also the witness may beleive the murder was gang-related in which case he coild be targeted if he gives evidence, in fact were the murdere in a gang he probably would, the behaviour of the police is not reassuring, in fact likely to lead to the public not trusting them. If they have a problem with political correctness they should make this public and make the government act, by threst of losing votes, sadly, the only thing the government is likely to act upon. I would not be surpried if thw witness has a lapse of memory, after all he has much to lose through helping and the murdere will be out of prison very shortly and may kill again. most judges area bit senile after all and give out very short sentences these days for the most horrendous of crimes.

Louise, SW7 says...
9:52pm Sun 11 May 08

I didn't know Jimmy, I'm not even a local but I just felt compelled to offer my deepest sympathy to Jimmy's family and friends, he sounds like such a kind, loving person.
We've lost another good guy from this world.
Rest well Jimmy xx

Sam, says...
10:10pm Sun 11 May 08

They might know who he is but they don't have him in custody.

The description should be given to alert other people in the area. If they spot the suspect they can then contact the police.

By not given an detailed description they are making it harder to capture him.


But saying it's a 'white male' or 'black male' of a certain age won't assist people in spotting him in the area! If he has no obvious identifying features then what's the point? Either description is general enough to identify many people.




Harry, London says...
10:22pm Sun 11 May 08

It is impossible to say whether a more accurate description would definitely help in the capture of the killer. Saying he is White or Chinese or whatever may make someone ask a question of someone they know was in the vicinity at the time and this could lead to an arrest. Who knows? But with a killer at large the more data given out the more likely the killer will be caught sooner. Some police, youth workers etc. may be questioning kids who are Green and wasting time because the killer was purple. This is common sense.

A. Beggs, South London says...
8:56am Mon 12 May 08

I think it is a sad tragic event but the police are right not to give out any information that may identify the suspect if it compromises the social diversity of London.
Do we really need to know? I`m sure the police have their reasons.
London is a beacon of integration. Let`s keep it that way.
The killer`s race is irrelevant if the police know who he is anyway.
We don`t want everyone going off accusing the wrong people and end up with the nazi BNP getting press out of this. Let`s keep the fascists away, and maintain some dignity in this terrible act.
I`m sure God knows who the killer is and I believe he will be punished by God for his evil act.

G, says...
8:57am Mon 12 May 08

Vern, I blame a combination of the lot: Parents, Society, Government, Schools, Legal System, Police and the list goes on. There are defects in every one of the areas above that create and exacerbate the problem! Put all those negative forces together and add some alcohol and drugs and you have a cocktail for violent disaster. You cannot realistically blame any single element of the above, there are always underlying factors.

anon, chislehurst says...
9:26am Mon 12 May 08

I didn't know the family at all but my thoughts and prayers go out to you all. It makes me so cross as, a mother, to read this. It seems very obvious that the parents of this poor young man have done a good job in raising him.Teaching him what is wrong and what is right, it's just a shame that other parents don't feel the need to do the same! When you read these stories it always seems to be good,decent,honest children that loose their lives. Surley this is wrong in anyones society. My family and I will be keeping you all in our prayers at this very difficult time

Stephanie, Lee Green says...
10:07am Mon 12 May 08

This is probably the worst thing that has happened round this area. I only live across the road & this is the last thing I would have expected to happen. His Mother & Father are in pieces, this isn't something parents should have to be dealing with. They are a good family & didn't deserve any of this. My deepest sympathies go towards them & I hope they have the right support to help them try & get through this.

K, Eltham says...
10:57am Mon 12 May 08

As others have said here, this is just so senseless it is difficult to believe. I didn't know Jimmy either, but my sister did and has nothing but beautiful words to say about him.

As a past student of St Thomas More, it is devastating to think that this young man will miss out on all of the fun of his last week at school, and my thoughts will be with all the other young people who will doubtlessly have a confusing and challenging week and time ahead.

I don't want to be drawn into the political debate, as I don't think this is the forum to raise these issues, but Boris please take note. This is clearly not a young man involved in this sort of lifestyle. Less beaurocracy so the police can actually get on with the jobs and tougher punishments for the monsters who feel this is acceptable behaviour.

Rest in peace Jimmy and God bless to all of your family and friends. You're all in our prayers x

Just Me, says...
11:23am Mon 12 May 08

I get sick to death about colour. A teenage boy has been killed,black white blue who cares.
this is someones child, like all the youngesters out there. pain doesnt have a colour. It only breaks heart.
God bless young man.

Sylvester, Kent says...
12:07pm Mon 12 May 08

G wrote:
Vern, I blame a combination of the lot: Parents, Society, Government, Schools, Legal System, Police and the list goes on. There are defects in every one of the areas above that create and exacerbate the problem! Put all those negative forces together and add some alcohol and drugs and you have a cocktail for violent disaster. You cannot realistically blame any single element of the above, there are always underlying factors.
Really, Germany, Switzerland, Sweden etc. have all the things you mention, but not the murders - they are not the reasons.

Robert Mugabe, London says...
12:31pm Mon 12 May 08

He struggles to hold down a job and is volatile and violent and seems to admire this gang culture. So this is my fault? Where did I go wrong? You were dishonest
quote

Augustus, London says...
1:37pm Mon 12 May 08

I ask how would the ancient Romans deal with the issues raised here. They had relatively little crime, no groups involved in gangs, terorising other groups of people, great buildings, art and culture. Can we not learn from them? They would nip this in the bud.They would make the groups pay severely for the behaviour of members of those groups of people. They would expel these groups of people too.

sarah, blackheath says...
1:46pm Mon 12 May 08

There we go bbc news at 1 oclock from scotland yard 66 people murdered since April 2007 and what a surprise 44 black and 13 asian 9 white and i can say i know 3 of them white murders were not gang related reece jones, jimmy and the polish lady that got caught up in black youths shooting eachother and she got shot instead in new cross............

WE CAN ALL ARGUE BUT HOWEVER I IS NOT ABOUT WHO IS I RIGHT OR WRONG IT IS THE TRUTH

A mum, says...
2:01pm Mon 12 May 08

Robert Mugabe wrote:
He struggles to hold down a job and is volatile and violent and seems to admire this gang culture. So this is my fault? Where did I go wrong? You were dishonest
quote
In what way? Please elaborate.

Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott, says...
2:17pm Mon 12 May 08

See my latest blog in the Your Shopper section:

LEARN FROM HISTORY AND START BLAMING THE POLITICIANS, NOT EACH OTHER.

Posted by Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott at 2:04pm today.

Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott

Lisa, Se London says...
3:05pm Mon 12 May 08

Firstly I would like to offer my sincere condulances to Jimmy's family I do hope that in time you will be able to smile and enjoy your memories you hold of Jimmy. It is such a tragic loss.

In respect of the comments made regarding race attacks and black on black crime, I can not see what this has to do with this story. This is really not the time or the place to dicuss these kind of issues. I do understand that people have freedom of speech but have some consideration for his family and friends who may read this. Why do they want to read these kind of comments.

RIP Jimmy hope you sleep soundly.

Lizzielooloo, says...
3:45pm Mon 12 May 08

Well said Lisa, couldn't agree with you more.

David, London says...
3:51pm Mon 12 May 08

Lisa. people are trying to understand why this happened, there have been many youth killings over the last 2 years, people want to end it what better place to start than here and now. Peole feel that PC has got something to do with the murder and may be a cause at indirectly. Certainly the police and Media are trying to cover up something, at least for as long as they can.I feel that racism played a part in the killing here whether the parents do or not.The pieces of the jigsaw are not yet together, but they are coming and the picture is one many do not want us to see. Though I did not know Jimmy, I do someone who was murdered and feel for the family and friends and am saddened at the loss of someone's life. I also want to stop this from happennin more and more as seems to be the case in London and Britain and this is not the case in other European countries. The clues to what is going on are obvious, but people pretend they are not there - such is the era in which we live.

Lisa, Se London says...
4:07pm Mon 12 May 08

David - I udnerstand what you are saying and I appreciate that people want these killings to stop. However there has been no details to the descrption of the killer but everyone seems to be jumping on the gang related killings etc I just feel that this is different. Jimmy didn't want to fight with the killer and seems was in the wrong place and the wrong time.

I am not disagreeing with any of the comments made or am |I trying to hide away from things. I just feel that this is not the time.

I also know of people who have been killed in a senseless way and my heart goes out to Jimmy's family and friends.


Scot, Edinburgh says...
4:55pm Mon 12 May 08

It makes one wonder if the Police and Authorities really want to apprehend the vermin who perpetrated this devilish crime. If the best they can do, with so many witnesses, is 'male youth', the Policeman in charge of the hunt must face charges of Dereliction of Duty, unless a good reason is forthcoming for the apparent restriction on information the public may expect to be informed of,

Scot

Jerzy Gawor, Eltham says...
5:06pm Mon 12 May 08

Enough is enough! That's the gist of the vast majority of comments which of course come from the vast majority of ordinary caring law-abiding members of society. Yes - time for tough action from the Law Courts - too many 'toothless' and useless sentences being handed out. Boris Johnson take note and take action NOW - it's the liberal 'doo-goody' politically correct 'goop' over the last 40 years which has brought us to this point in time. Give the Police back the right to stop people they know are criminally intent. Take the knives and guns off the streets - off the youngsters. Mandatory 5 year sentences just for carrying a weapon! Stop Police wasting their time on useless paperwork and get them doing the job they love and that they signed up for in the first place! Finally if EVERYONE simply took genuine responsibility for their own actions, took responsibility for their children many of whom I see roaming the streets of SE London late at night and being generally unruly, teach YOUR kids right from wrong and don't leave it up to others to bring up your kids, maybe, just maybe another tragedy might be averted. My heart goes out to the Mizen family - RIP Jimmy.

Sharon, London says...
5:09pm Mon 12 May 08

my 16yr old brother was attacked by a gang of Asian men, one of the men was the father of a boy that my brother had had a fight with some weeks early. They tried to kill my brother with a monkey wrench, his injuries were horrific. Blood everywhere, his ear hanging off and scars for life! He escaped with his life because his friends raised the alarm and ran towards them. The police told my parents they would get the men on GBH. They interviewed suspects and the phones they had pointed to a planned attack. However cps says not enough evidence and the case has been thrown out. This gang still walks large and has since beaten up at least four more youngsters, two more went to hospital. Nothing will be done until one dies! What is the point of even reporting these crimes?

Sharon, London says...
5:29pm Mon 12 May 08

I forgot to mention that this gang who attacked my brother are not youths but men in their 30's and early 40's, my brother's crime was to have a fist fight with a boy his own age.

natalie, lee says...
5:35pm Mon 12 May 08

Totally agree it cant be stopped, bring back leathal injection...
The reason why are young are getting killed is because prison is a summer camp. prison are running out of space and money so sentences are short these kids know the score they arent scared of prison life is not life.... you take someone life then so should yours.... if we has something in place that would scare these kids and they knew that if they murder someone then they loose there life then im sure they would think twice

Sisyphus, Bromley says...
11:01pm Mon 12 May 08

Scot wrote:
It makes one wonder if the Police and Authorities really want to apprehend the vermin who perpetrated this devilish crime. If the best they can do, with so many witnesses, is 'male youth', the Policeman in charge of the hunt must face charges of Dereliction of Duty, unless a good reason is forthcoming for the apparent restriction on information the public may expect to be informed of,

Scot
What an idiot. Do you really think the police need anyone's help in finding out who did this? They know perfectly well. A 'description' in the media would be of absolutely no use whatsoever. I am six foot tall, of medium build, white, have blue eyes, and short brown hair. I expect a tap on my shoulder tomorrow when you recognise me on the streets of London.
The media should only report a person's race when it's relevant to a story. In crime stories, this can often be because the police have issued an appeal for information. Here they don't need information. They will have specifically stated they wanted the white witness because they wanted to make it clear to that person exactly who they are asking for - and this won't be so they can ask who did it, it'll be to gather evidence for when this murderer is caught and tried.

sorry, 839-026 says...
12:20am Tue 13 May 08

While being of a hardened media heart, reading some of the comments from people around or near to this young lad quite ovrwhelmed me. My thoughts are with his family.

Sad, Sidcup says...
7:28am Tue 13 May 08

I know the school he went to through my cousin. It has had tragedy after tragedy and to happen to such an innocent young boy with his whole life ahead of him is really sad. I know that the school will support all the pupils and the family to help them get through this difficult time.

charlotte, Bromley says...
2:30pm Tue 13 May 08

R.I.P Jimmy, you sounded like a really friendly and sensible person who didn't by any means deserve what happened. May your soul rest in peace and know that you have everyones thoughts!

I used to live in Ladywell and was there for most of my younger years and from what I grew up with you shouldn't tar everyone by the same brush. Everyone deserves a chance however, there must be some kind of explination of this crime.
One thing I cannot stand is that sentences nowadays are by far unfair shouldn't a life be for a life??
Why is it that life for someone of say the age of 15 be just 15 years - Surely they should serve life?? People don't change, in the sense once screwed up always screwed up - Who in their 'RIGHT' mind would selfishly and brutely murder a young guy who was only trying to help?

Why the hell can't this world just sort itself out, when I was younger I never worried about things like knives and guns (although they were around) because it was not in the public eye as much - I think that over the last few years it has been so sad to see all these lives gone as fast as seconds go.

I am so glad I have grown up and saw my errors of being young, although with that I now have the worry of my younger brothers as ages are getting younger and younger for crime.

I agree with peoples comments on descriptions, honestly if they really really wanted to find this guy they would be notifying everyone as much information as possible, the person who committed this nasty and discusting crime knows who they are so giving a description wont make him go in to hiding no more then he probably already has (if that makes sense)

I just hope it won't take too long because Lee as a community will now be living in fear of all the youngsters that may now be at risk.

I just hope that once the killer is found they give the correct sentence taking in to account they have committed murder & also has now gone on the run!

Also why be given the choice of another identity? Surely once they screwed that up they don't deserve another chance - The poor childrena dn adults that have been murdered have not had the choice??

I hope something changes and fast because it seems youths are taking over!!!

charlotte, Bromley says...
2:31pm Tue 13 May 08

R.I.P Jimmy, you sounded like a really friendly and sensible person who didn't by any means deserve what happened. May your soul rest in peace and know that you have everyones thoughts!

I used to live in Ladywell and was there for most of my younger years and from what I grew up with you shouldn't tar everyone by the same brush. Everyone deserves a chance however, there must be some kind of explination of this crime.
One thing I cannot stand is that sentences nowadays are by far unfair shouldn't a life be for a life??
Why is it that life for someone of say the age of 15 be just 15 years - Surely they should serve life?? People don't change, in the sense once screwed up always screwed up - Who in their 'RIGHT' mind would selfishly and brutely murder a young guy who was only trying to help?

Why the hell can't this world just sort itself out, when I was younger I never worried about things like knives and guns (although they were around) because it was not in the public eye as much - I think that over the last few years it has been so sad to see all these lives gone as fast as seconds go.

I am so glad I have grown up and saw my errors of being young, although with that I now have the worry of my younger brothers as ages are getting younger and younger for crime.

I agree with peoples comments on descriptions, honestly if they really really wanted to find this guy they would be notifying everyone as much information as possible, the person who committed this nasty and discusting crime knows who they are so giving a description wont make him go in to hiding no more then he probably already has (if that makes sense)

I just hope it won't take too long because Lee as a community will now be living in fear of all the youngsters that may now be at risk.

I just hope that once the killer is found they give the correct sentence taking in to account they have committed murder & also has now gone on the run!

Also why be given the choice of another identity? Surely once they screwed that up they don't deserve another chance - The poor childrena dn adults that have been murdered have not had the choice??

I hope something changes and fast because it seems youths are taking over!!!

charlotte, Bromley says...
2:36pm Tue 13 May 08

R.I.P Jimmy, you sounded like a really friendly and sensible person who didn't by any means deserve what happened. May your soul rest in peace and know that you have everyones thoughts!

Melissa, Eltham says...
4:05pm Tue 13 May 08

What a tragedy, my heart goes out to Jimmys family and I just hope the person who did this is caught soon. RIP Jimmy

Sinic, london says...
11:16am Wed 14 May 08

White youth arrested

Anything to say all those who were so sure he was black?

Sisyphus, Bromley says...
1:27pm Wed 14 May 08

Sinic wrote:
White youth arrested Anything to say all those who were so sure he was black?
We're waiting...
...
...
...
...
...still waiting...

Sisyphus, Bromley says...
2:57pm Wed 14 May 08

...still waiting...

...


...


...

Sinic, london says...
7:01pm Wed 14 May 08

Silence is golden eh?

Rip Jimmy

Sisyphus, Bromley says...
7:36pm Wed 14 May 08

...still waiting...

......

...no apology from any of them. Not one. Disgraceful. How do you sleep at night knowing you tried to use this poor lad's tragic death to vent some of your vile hate? Hate, I might add, that is totally unjustified and misdirected.

steve, Bromley says...
10:47pm Wed 14 May 08

I am not one of them but the comments on this page have slowed recently.
I feel you need to be corrected as the person is not white, Anglo turkish to be accurate, where did you get that information from? I could almost hear the sigh of relief in your post.
Maybe all the attention has the media's is, has now been directed upon the murdered suspected 10 strong gang rape member in Oxford street?



Sinic, london says...
7:40am Thu 15 May 08

Steve

point is HE ISNT BLACK!

re the oxford st muredr...shocking i too read about the victim having been charged with his alledged part in that awful gang rape. two men have been arrested for that murder now i believe, it may have been a revenge attack for his part in that rape, but as he had only been charged not convicted we will never know.


working, sidcup says...
10:09am Thu 15 May 08

Sisyphus wrote:
Sinic wrote: White youth arrested Anything to say all those who were so sure he was black?
We\'re waiting... ... ... ... ... ...still waiting...
Mmmm, where are all those people now whi instantly 'assumed' it was a black boy responsible for this tragedy? It is amazing that you cannot come forward now and admit that you were wrong and take back the disgusting comments you made! However, it does not surprise me, seems to be a regular opinion of some of you, so I guess through your ignorance, you know no better!

steve, says...
12:06pm Thu 15 May 08

well he was not just white either ? If you wish to put this incident up as proof there is no particular issue with one part of the ' community ' then thats down to you. A long hard look has to be taken by the parents of this community and ask why are so many of our sons dying.

working, sidcup says...
1:16pm Thu 15 May 08

You are missing the point! It was instantly assumed he was black and subscribers to this page vented their nasty hatred without any evidence! Where are they now with their comments? It was also said he was likely to be an immigrant. Yet again it appears this is also incorrect. Then II read comments that the press were not revealing the details as they were being politically correct and did not want to offend the Black Community! What a load of waffle. I grew up in South East London in the 70's and 80's and was targeted because of the colour of my skin, and here we are in 2008 and that low life ignorance still remains! The comments I read on here disgust me. I am the mother of a teenage black boy who has been brought up well as have his friends, and he is not in a gang. Why should an assumption be made of my son, just because he is Black!
The issue here was a boy was murdered and this is tragic whether the suspect was red, green, orange, mauve etc!

William, London says...
2:44pm Thu 15 May 08

Ok, some people got it wrong, but you have to ask yourself why would these people make the assumption?

William, London says...
2:48pm Thu 15 May 08

And please come up with something better than they are racist.

Sisyphus, Bromley says...
2:59pm Thu 15 May 08

William wrote:
And please come up with something better than they are racist.
Why should we come up with an excuse for them? Let them answer for themselves.

working, sidcup says...
3:05pm Thu 15 May 08

William wrote:
And please come up with something better than they are racist.
Well, if they are not racist maybe you can tell me what it is?

I'm sure you are going to trot out that it is because every murder you hear about involves a black person!

However, there have supposedly been 100 murders this year and one of those victims was a 69 year old woman. I know for a fact I have not seen 100 reported on the news and I have definately not heard of the 69 year old being killed! Is that because the press only report the ones they want us to hear, thereby encouraging the perception they want people to have?

I'm sure you will not say this is the case, and that is your opinion. However, I will not sit back and read the comments I have seen on here, without responding!

One of the comments I read was so bad I had to report it. But hey, I guess in some people's opinion these comments are aceeptable, but in mine they are not!

So, without telling me how many black murders there have been, because I am already well aware of this, you tell me why this assumption was automatically made?

Paedophiles generally come from a certain grouping, but I would not instantly make an assumption of people if a child went missing!

William, London says...
3:23pm Thu 15 May 08

That's a good way to answer a question, ask the exact same question back.

working, sidcup says...
3:35pm Thu 15 May 08

William wrote:
That\'s a good way to answer a question, ask the exact same question back.
I did not make the comments, I merely read them and was offended by them. It is my opinion that some of these people are racist. Therefore, I do not need to ask myself why they made these assumptions, I have said what I believe. The gist I get from you is that they are right to make these assumptions, so as I said, you tell me?!

William, London says...
3:49pm Thu 15 May 08

Aha, and now you are doing exactly what they done, making the wrong assumption, shame on you. Of course they were wrong, 100%. But he does come from foreign extraction will be thier next argument.
As for their assumptions, maybe it's because we all know someone that's been mugged at knifepoint on the streets by black youths, maybe it's because black youths are responsible for a lot of crime on our streets, and yes before you say it, so are many white youths, but why are the young offenders institutes full of black youths? The percentage ratio is much higher than white youths. Maybe that's why people made the assumption and maybe because the original report was someone was stabbed. With all the media reports of the deaths this year,nearly all have involved black youths. Maybe this is where the assumptions came from, or maybe you're right they're just racis. I dont know.

Sisyphus, Bromley says...
4:12pm Thu 15 May 08

For a moment, I thought you were going to take this to its logical conclusion, which is to ask why it is that young black men are more likely than any other group to find themselves part of the criminal justice system.

It is a very big question and one that will not be answered by a string of unfocused and unthinking readers’ comments on a local newspaper website (I’m not necessarily including you in that William, at least you’ve had the decency to engage after this lad’s arrest).

There are massive problems of inequality in our society, massive problems for families communities, schools, councils, the government etc to address. They will not be addressed if communities don’t work together.

It does not follow that the simple fact that young black men occupy a disproportionate amount of bed-space in our prisons and young offenders’ institutes means that young black men are more disposed to committing crime – by will, genes or some uncontrollable emotion.

I know that no one – other than the really vile bottom-of-the-barrel racists who still exist in society – actually believes this is. So, part of what I think ‘working’ from Sidcup is saying is that people should beware about getting sucked into the kind of knee-jerk reactions we’ve seen on this thread, and step back and consider a) some of the bigger questions about how our society operates and b) the consequences of the things they say.

Working, sidcup says...
4:22pm Thu 15 May 08

William wrote:
Aha, and now you are doing exactly what they done, making the wrong assumption, shame on you. Of course they were wrong, 100%. But he does come from foreign extraction will be thier next argument. As for their assumptions, maybe it\'s because we all know someone that\'s been mugged at knifepoint on the streets by black youths, maybe it\'s because black youths are responsible for a lot of crime on our streets, and yes before you say it, so are many white youths, but why are the young offenders institutes full of black youths? The percentage ratio is much higher than white youths. Maybe that\'s why people made the assumption and maybe because the original report was someone was stabbed. With all the media reports of the deaths this year,nearly all have involved black youths. Maybe this is where the assumptions came from, or maybe you\'re right they\'re just racis. I dont know.
Yep, you're right, I made an assumption, and I can admit I did! I feel no shame, as I have not spouted the filth others have.

He may also come from a foreign extraction as you put it, however, I bet he has lived and been educated here most of his life, so what does the foreign extraction prove? I know people who have been robbed by black and white people and at no time have I said black people do not commit offences, or are involved in gangs, my point is with regards to the assumptions made, but you miss my point. I am black, if I was murdered tomorrow is it ok for people to make the assumption that they are not interested in my death because I'm black as has been insinuated on this page? I work, own my property, am not in a gang and have never attacked anyone, but as I'm black it's ok to makee that assumption?

Furthermore, you talk about young offender institutes being full of black youths. I wonder why that is? My son was robbed and threatened, I took him to the police station to report this, but suddenly he was not the victim, he was the perpetrator and it was assumed he was in a gang. He was questioned by the police without me and accused of lying and threatened with arrest! It's ok though, we are guilty until proven innocent. Again, he was racially abused by someone, however when reported, he was perceived as in the wrong and the one who got into trouble, not the person who abused him even though there were witnesses to corroborate what had taken place!

Perceptions, perceptions!

Sisyphus, Bromley says...
10:40pm Thu 15 May 08

...and we're still waiting for those apologies...

...

......

.........

working, sidcup says...
8:53am Fri 16 May 08

Sisyphus wrote:
...and we\'re still waiting for those apologies... ... ...... .........
Well, don't hold your breath because it appears there wont be one! Seems these people who had so much to say when they thought their opinions were justified, have vanished off the face of the earth!!

William, London says...
2:45pm Fri 16 May 08

'working'
be careful how you quote. I didn't say he was of foreign extraction. What I said was, that's what the racist ones will say next, small point but you should know the way things get twisted on here.

sophie davies, bromley says...
3:15pm Fri 16 May 08

RIP Jimmy, i am still trying to come to terms with how this happenned to somebody who as well as his family make up some of the loveliest people i have met. my thoughts are with you and will always be. i am sad i didnt get to see you more but am happy that now you are in peace, it is true this world was too cruel for a lovely young man lik you (ur second cousin) sophie ****

sophie davies, bromley says...
3:17pm Fri 16 May 08

RIP Jimmy, i am still trying to come to terms with how this happenned to somebody who as well as his family make up some of the loveliest people i have met. my thoughts are with you and will always be. i am sad i didnt get to see you more but am happy that now you are in peace, it is true this world was too cruel for a lovely young man lik you (ur second cousin) sophie ****

working, sidcup says...
3:34pm Fri 16 May 08

William wrote:
'working' be careful how you quote. I didn't say he was of foreign extraction. What I said was, that's what the racist ones will say next, small point but you should know the way things get twisted on here.
William, I never said you said it, so please accept my apologies if it came across that way. I was just using the term you said would be their next arguement.

maxine, lee says...
1:55am Sat 17 May 08

I hae lived in lee for over 20 years and its haits troubled times but i and ost of the community have grown up with each other we all new each other. I am totally gutted and keeps playing over in my mind what a tragic waste. I know you will all stand strong togehter. Jimmy < your son > wil never be forgotten.well all be there for you tmmorow goodnight babes xxxxxxxxxx

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