POLL: Should Dartford become part of London? Dartford Council leader says 'no'

POLL: Should Dartford become part of London? Dartford Council leader says 'no'

A map Barney Stringer put together (@barneystringer) with ONS data

Dartford Council Leader Councillor Jeremy Kite rejects the idea

First published in News
Last updated
News Shopper: Photograph of the Author by , reporter

Dartford Council's leader has slammed suggestions of redrawing the London map to include Dartford.

A property consultant, Barney Stringer, sparked debate by suggesting the London map should be changed to include the commuter belt in the south east.

Mr Stringer raised a few eyebrows on his blog about how new boundaries could "reflect the reality of its huge economic pull on the wider south-east" and highlighted on a map where more people go to work in the capital than they do in their own district.

Dartford Council leader Councillor Jeremy Kite, however, quashed the idea of a new London map.

He told News Shopper: "This sort of thing surfaces every few years or so and it’s always from people like planning consultants, it’s never from the council or residents themselves. 

"It never comes from people who know what they are talking about.

News Shopper:

"They have talked about this for decades. It is no closer to happening today than it ever has been.

"We cooperate with London and there’s no need for anything else. It is really not going to happen. 

"It would require an Act of Parliament to change things and we don’t need it - Dartford is Kent and not part of London."

Mr Stringer had written about the issue in an online article called Is London too small?

He said: "A soaring jobs market, plus a shortage of housing, adds up to growing pressure on regional commuter rail routes to bring the workforce in from elsewhere. 

"That’s why we need investments such as Thameslink, Crossrail 1 and Crossrail 2, to better integrate central London to the wider south-east of England.

"If London’s boundaries now contain its economy so poorly, where should they be drawn? 

"That of course is a very political question, and fifty years ago some districts fought furiously to avoid becoming part of London. But the latest Census data on travel patterns offers a good starting point."

What do you think? Vote in the poll or leave your comments below.

 

Comments (18)

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1:19pm Thu 4 Sep 14

Tamer37 says...

Yes both Dartford and Thurrock as well.

Richmond should becomes two boroughs:
The east side would be Richmond Borough
The west of the river Thames is Twickenham Borough

Hillingdon:
the north should be called Hillingdon Borough
the south would be called Heathrow Borough
Yes both Dartford and Thurrock as well. Richmond should becomes two boroughs: The east side would be Richmond Borough The west of the river Thames is Twickenham Borough Hillingdon: the north should be called Hillingdon Borough the south would be called Heathrow Borough Tamer37
  • Score: 0

1:21pm Thu 4 Sep 14

Tamer37 says...

Its nice to see London the world biggest capital.
Its nice to see London the world biggest capital. Tamer37
  • Score: -4

1:31pm Thu 4 Sep 14

danm5577 says...

Yes, its already a dive!
Needs London money input!
Yes, its already a dive! Needs London money input! danm5577
  • Score: -10

1:45pm Thu 4 Sep 14

Tamer37 says...

Yes, its already a dive!
Needs London money input!

Its not a dive, it will gets better and famous.

Change the Dartford name to London Getaway Borough
because all cars and lorries pass through it when you wants to go anywhere, vacations, coming or leaving London.
Yes, its already a dive! Needs London money input! Its not a dive, it will gets better and famous. Change the Dartford name to London Getaway Borough because all cars and lorries pass through it when you wants to go anywhere, vacations, coming or leaving London. Tamer37
  • Score: 11

2:12pm Thu 4 Sep 14

ElthamNo1 says...

Who cares??? is it really that important??
Who cares??? is it really that important?? ElthamNo1
  • Score: -3

5:02pm Thu 4 Sep 14

Womblingbarnacle says...

They would get much cheaper buses, and better trains if TfL ran them (though TfL run plenty of services outside London without the area being in London). For some reason some in Kent are worried of more frequent trains and things like oyster card use at Dartford if TfL took over.

Dartford is on its knees in many ways so it would get more cash from the mayor / Greater London Authority.
They would get much cheaper buses, and better trains if TfL ran them (though TfL run plenty of services outside London without the area being in London). For some reason some in Kent are worried of more frequent trains and things like oyster card use at Dartford if TfL took over. Dartford is on its knees in many ways so it would get more cash from the mayor / Greater London Authority. Womblingbarnacle
  • Score: 5

6:02pm Thu 4 Sep 14

jec_da9 says...

Like it or not, we have a great deal more in common with our neighbouring London boroughs than with County Hall in Maidstone - as evidenced by Kent CC's veto of Boris's plan to extend London Overground services to Dartford, because it would remove capacity for longer-distance commuters. Fair play to them - I understand their argument: but it highlights that, to Kent CC, Dartford is really an inconvenient little corner of their county that isn't much like where most Kent county councillors hail from. I say it's time to jump.
Like it or not, we have a great deal more in common with our neighbouring London boroughs than with County Hall in Maidstone - as evidenced by Kent CC's veto of Boris's plan to extend London Overground services to Dartford, because it would remove capacity for longer-distance commuters. Fair play to them - I understand their argument: but it highlights that, to Kent CC, Dartford is really an inconvenient little corner of their county that isn't much like where most Kent county councillors hail from. I say it's time to jump. jec_da9
  • Score: 2

5:43am Fri 5 Sep 14

sarfflondonbird says...

Think of the green space you would lose to concrete blocks of sh@@, far more land will be lost to no doubt awful tower blocks that are springing up left, right and centre in London. I would say no too.
Think of the green space you would lose to concrete blocks of sh@@, far more land will be lost to no doubt awful tower blocks that are springing up left, right and centre in London. I would say no too. sarfflondonbird
  • Score: 10

11:24am Fri 5 Sep 14

oBLiVioN 70 says...

Interesting idea but can't see the point. Crossrail will change Dartford and likely a few other places east of Abbey Wood.

Dartford doesn't need to be in London to have Oyster or to be added to zone 6 but being part of London would probably mean a higher cost of living, more building and unless it cleaned up Temple Hill and one or two other places, or put more Police in the borough, any benefits would be quite minimal so would it be a price worth paying?.
Interesting idea but can't see the point. Crossrail will change Dartford and likely a few other places east of Abbey Wood. Dartford doesn't need to be in London to have Oyster or to be added to zone 6 but being part of London would probably mean a higher cost of living, more building and unless it cleaned up Temple Hill and one or two other places, or put more Police in the borough, any benefits would be quite minimal so would it be a price worth paying?. oBLiVioN 70
  • Score: 3

5:13pm Fri 5 Sep 14

goldenbroomboy says...

Heloise, its Greater London not "London".

So the foetid monster is stirring its stinking tentacles again. I have read these proposals, they include other towns as well as Dartford. The idea of the Colonel Blimps & Blue Rinses of Sevenoaks being called "Londoners" has a macabre humour to it, reminds me of the idiot exiled Brummie who wrote to this site a few years who thought that moving to Biggin Hill made him some kind of honorary Cockney.

If the government of the day wants to extend Greater London, they will do it. The proportion of workers commuting to Larndarn means sweet fanny adams, in the sixties it was conceded that a majority of commuting from Crayford went to Dartford, but that was ignored.

London Calling.............
.
Heloise, its Greater London not "London". So the foetid monster is stirring its stinking tentacles again. I have read these proposals, they include other towns as well as Dartford. The idea of the Colonel Blimps & Blue Rinses of Sevenoaks being called "Londoners" has a macabre humour to it, reminds me of the idiot exiled Brummie who wrote to this site a few years who thought that moving to Biggin Hill made him some kind of honorary Cockney. If the government of the day wants to extend Greater London, they will do it. The proportion of workers commuting to Larndarn means sweet fanny adams, in the sixties it was conceded that a majority of commuting from Crayford went to Dartford, but that was ignored. London Calling............. . goldenbroomboy
  • Score: 0

6:06pm Fri 5 Sep 14

Cet2514 says...

Like people are saying. Wages will have to rise to take in the increase in local charges. This suggestion has been on the cards for several years now, and it will happen eventually. But companies will have to move out of area due to London rates etc that will have to be imposed on them and will eat into profits.
Like people are saying. Wages will have to rise to take in the increase in local charges. This suggestion has been on the cards for several years now, and it will happen eventually. But companies will have to move out of area due to London rates etc that will have to be imposed on them and will eat into profits. Cet2514
  • Score: 2

6:24pm Sun 7 Sep 14

paulbexleyheath says...

dont need dartford as part of london . maybe more fitting is to twin it with swanley
dont need dartford as part of london . maybe more fitting is to twin it with swanley paulbexleyheath
  • Score: 2

11:05am Mon 8 Sep 14

Gypo.Joe says...

paulbexleyheath wrote:
dont need dartford as part of london . maybe more fitting is to twin it with swanley
I thought it already was.
[quote][p][bold]paulbexleyheath[/bold] wrote: dont need dartford as part of london . maybe more fitting is to twin it with swanley[/p][/quote]I thought it already was. Gypo.Joe
  • Score: -1

12:31am Tue 16 Sep 14

12341234 says...

Womblingbarnacle wrote:
They would get much cheaper buses, and better trains if TfL ran them (though TfL run plenty of services outside London without the area being in London). For some reason some in Kent are worried of more frequent trains and things like oyster card use at Dartford if TfL took over.

Dartford is on its knees in many ways so it would get more cash from the mayor / Greater London Authority.
I reside in Erith - it's a tip, rather like Dartford - however, it's a tip in which I get a Freedom Pass and when I lived at Wilmington had to fight to get my KCC bus pass, and by god the smart OAPs and cretins on freebies wouldn't be stupid enough to live in Dartford (I was only there a year), and the Freedom Pass - which can be used at Swanley & Dartford - is *the* best reason for living in the LBs.

The other is we come under NHS London, so I get sent to London hospitals - ie King's without too many problems, whilst they get DVH.

We also have a loony department that do indeed, improve my life (perhaps not tax-payers'), rather than the mental department at Dartford / Stone that doesn't know the difference between a fruitcake and a Viennese Whirl.

And most Bexley libraries are open until 7pm, and Sunday am.

You compare the amount of help I get from services against what my friend gets in Dartford, and it's like being on a different planet. The DHSS make her look for work and they're clearly unable to, whereas I don't get hassled.
[quote][p][bold]Womblingbarnacle[/bold] wrote: They would get much cheaper buses, and better trains if TfL ran them (though TfL run plenty of services outside London without the area being in London). For some reason some in Kent are worried of more frequent trains and things like oyster card use at Dartford if TfL took over. Dartford is on its knees in many ways so it would get more cash from the mayor / Greater London Authority.[/p][/quote]I reside in Erith - it's a tip, rather like Dartford - however, it's a tip in which I get a Freedom Pass and when I lived at Wilmington had to fight to get my KCC bus pass, and by god the smart OAPs and cretins on freebies wouldn't be stupid enough to live in Dartford (I was only there a year), and the Freedom Pass - which can be used at Swanley & Dartford - is *the* best reason for living in the LBs. The other is we come under NHS London, so I get sent to London hospitals - ie King's without too many problems, whilst they get DVH. We also have a loony department that do indeed, improve my life (perhaps not tax-payers'), rather than the mental department at Dartford / Stone that doesn't know the difference between a fruitcake and a Viennese Whirl. And most Bexley libraries are open until 7pm, and Sunday am. You compare the amount of help I get from services against what my friend gets in Dartford, and it's like being on a different planet. The DHSS make her look for work and they're clearly unable to, whereas I don't get hassled. 12341234
  • Score: 1

12:35am Tue 16 Sep 14

12341234 says...

Jeremy Kite & Gareth Johnson won't go for it

Bet former Dartford MP, Howard Stoate, now head of Bexley CCG doesn't live in Dartford, what use would a blue card he can't use 'til 0930 and only on buses to him?
Jeremy Kite & Gareth Johnson won't go for it Bet former Dartford MP, Howard Stoate, now head of Bexley CCG doesn't live in Dartford, what use would a blue card he can't use 'til 0930 and only on buses to him? 12341234
  • Score: 1

12:36am Tue 16 Sep 14

12341234 says...

ElthamNo1 wrote:
Who cares??? is it really that important??
Not to you as a Greenwich resident probably
[quote][p][bold]ElthamNo1[/bold] wrote: Who cares??? is it really that important??[/p][/quote]Not to you as a Greenwich resident probably 12341234
  • Score: 0

2:17am Tue 16 Sep 14

oBLiVioN 70 says...

12341234 wrote:
Womblingbarnacle wrote:
They would get much cheaper buses, and better trains if TfL ran them (though TfL run plenty of services outside London without the area being in London). For some reason some in Kent are worried of more frequent trains and things like oyster card use at Dartford if TfL took over.

Dartford is on its knees in many ways so it would get more cash from the mayor / Greater London Authority.
I reside in Erith - it's a tip, rather like Dartford - however, it's a tip in which I get a Freedom Pass and when I lived at Wilmington had to fight to get my KCC bus pass, and by god the smart OAPs and cretins on freebies wouldn't be stupid enough to live in Dartford (I was only there a year), and the Freedom Pass - which can be used at Swanley & Dartford - is *the* best reason for living in the LBs.

The other is we come under NHS London, so I get sent to London hospitals - ie King's without too many problems, whilst they get DVH.

We also have a loony department that do indeed, improve my life (perhaps not tax-payers'), rather than the mental department at Dartford / Stone that doesn't know the difference between a fruitcake and a Viennese Whirl.

And most Bexley libraries are open until 7pm, and Sunday am.

You compare the amount of help I get from services against what my friend gets in Dartford, and it's like being on a different planet. The DHSS make her look for work and they're clearly unable to, whereas I don't get hassled.
Dartford has its problems and it is getting generally worse but it is far from being a tip, the town centre is run down but it does have more than 2 pubs, there are no smashed cash points and the centre doesnt need to be gated off at night, it is still a good place for live music on occasions also.

Glad to know you are being served well by TfL, but I beg to differ about the other services that are better in London, other than living in Thurrock for 3 years I have been in London and for a time I wanted the help of a psychologist, well Redbridge council was a waste of space, Tower Hamlets was helpful but in the end I went private. I was lucky to be able to pay, how many cant?! I also paid to use Mind services in Gravesham since I was outside the area so dont even go there with how well London treats its residents, Ive had to sort my own problems or go outside London to help sort them.

I will admit that Bexley does make more of an effort in general but thats the exception and not the norm for London.
[quote][p][bold]12341234[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Womblingbarnacle[/bold] wrote: They would get much cheaper buses, and better trains if TfL ran them (though TfL run plenty of services outside London without the area being in London). For some reason some in Kent are worried of more frequent trains and things like oyster card use at Dartford if TfL took over. Dartford is on its knees in many ways so it would get more cash from the mayor / Greater London Authority.[/p][/quote]I reside in Erith - it's a tip, rather like Dartford - however, it's a tip in which I get a Freedom Pass and when I lived at Wilmington had to fight to get my KCC bus pass, and by god the smart OAPs and cretins on freebies wouldn't be stupid enough to live in Dartford (I was only there a year), and the Freedom Pass - which can be used at Swanley & Dartford - is *the* best reason for living in the LBs. The other is we come under NHS London, so I get sent to London hospitals - ie King's without too many problems, whilst they get DVH. We also have a loony department that do indeed, improve my life (perhaps not tax-payers'), rather than the mental department at Dartford / Stone that doesn't know the difference between a fruitcake and a Viennese Whirl. And most Bexley libraries are open until 7pm, and Sunday am. You compare the amount of help I get from services against what my friend gets in Dartford, and it's like being on a different planet. The DHSS make her look for work and they're clearly unable to, whereas I don't get hassled.[/p][/quote]Dartford has its problems and it is getting generally worse but it is far from being a tip, the town centre is run down but it does have more than 2 pubs, there are no smashed cash points and the centre doesnt need to be gated off at night, it is still a good place for live music on occasions also. Glad to know you are being served well by TfL, but I beg to differ about the other services that are better in London, other than living in Thurrock for 3 years I have been in London and for a time I wanted the help of a psychologist, well Redbridge council was a waste of space, Tower Hamlets was helpful but in the end I went private. I was lucky to be able to pay, how many cant?! I also paid to use Mind services in Gravesham since I was outside the area so dont even go there with how well London treats its residents, Ive had to sort my own problems or go outside London to help sort them. I will admit that Bexley does make more of an effort in general but thats the exception and not the norm for London. oBLiVioN 70
  • Score: 0

8:04pm Tue 16 Sep 14

12341234 says...

oBLiVioN 70 wrote:
12341234 wrote:
Womblingbarnacle wrote:
They would get much cheaper buses, and better trains if TfL ran them (though TfL run plenty of services outside London without the area being in London). For some reason some in Kent are worried of more frequent trains and things like oyster card use at Dartford if TfL took over.

Dartford is on its knees in many ways so it would get more cash from the mayor / Greater London Authority.
I reside in Erith - it's a tip, rather like Dartford - however, it's a tip in which I get a Freedom Pass and when I lived at Wilmington had to fight to get my KCC bus pass, and by god the smart OAPs and cretins on freebies wouldn't be stupid enough to live in Dartford (I was only there a year), and the Freedom Pass - which can be used at Swanley & Dartford - is *the* best reason for living in the LBs.

The other is we come under NHS London, so I get sent to London hospitals - ie King's without too many problems, whilst they get DVH.

We also have a loony department that do indeed, improve my life (perhaps not tax-payers'), rather than the mental department at Dartford / Stone that doesn't know the difference between a fruitcake and a Viennese Whirl.

And most Bexley libraries are open until 7pm, and Sunday am.

You compare the amount of help I get from services against what my friend gets in Dartford, and it's like being on a different planet. The DHSS make her look for work and they're clearly unable to, whereas I don't get hassled.
Dartford has its problems and it is getting generally worse but it is far from being a tip, the town centre is run down but it does have more than 2 pubs, there are no smashed cash points and the centre doesnt need to be gated off at night, it is still a good place for live music on occasions also.

Glad to know you are being served well by TfL, but I beg to differ about the other services that are better in London, other than living in Thurrock for 3 years I have been in London and for a time I wanted the help of a psychologist, well Redbridge council was a waste of space, Tower Hamlets was helpful but in the end I went private. I was lucky to be able to pay, how many cant?! I also paid to use Mind services in Gravesham since I was outside the area so dont even go there with how well London treats its residents, Ive had to sort my own problems or go outside London to help sort them.

I will admit that Bexley does make more of an effort in general but thats the exception and not the norm for London.
Generally the further in you are, the better. Bexley don't really help their residents, but better than Dartford. Like your Redbridge & Tower Hamlets example. Greenwich is more helpful than Bexley. Ultimately, it's a case of the political leaning of the borough and how much help they dish out for social stuff.

Medway is the anomaly when it comes to Kent - being an opt-out, their services are pretty good.
[quote][p][bold]oBLiVioN 70[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]12341234[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Womblingbarnacle[/bold] wrote: They would get much cheaper buses, and better trains if TfL ran them (though TfL run plenty of services outside London without the area being in London). For some reason some in Kent are worried of more frequent trains and things like oyster card use at Dartford if TfL took over. Dartford is on its knees in many ways so it would get more cash from the mayor / Greater London Authority.[/p][/quote]I reside in Erith - it's a tip, rather like Dartford - however, it's a tip in which I get a Freedom Pass and when I lived at Wilmington had to fight to get my KCC bus pass, and by god the smart OAPs and cretins on freebies wouldn't be stupid enough to live in Dartford (I was only there a year), and the Freedom Pass - which can be used at Swanley & Dartford - is *the* best reason for living in the LBs. The other is we come under NHS London, so I get sent to London hospitals - ie King's without too many problems, whilst they get DVH. We also have a loony department that do indeed, improve my life (perhaps not tax-payers'), rather than the mental department at Dartford / Stone that doesn't know the difference between a fruitcake and a Viennese Whirl. And most Bexley libraries are open until 7pm, and Sunday am. You compare the amount of help I get from services against what my friend gets in Dartford, and it's like being on a different planet. The DHSS make her look for work and they're clearly unable to, whereas I don't get hassled.[/p][/quote]Dartford has its problems and it is getting generally worse but it is far from being a tip, the town centre is run down but it does have more than 2 pubs, there are no smashed cash points and the centre doesnt need to be gated off at night, it is still a good place for live music on occasions also. Glad to know you are being served well by TfL, but I beg to differ about the other services that are better in London, other than living in Thurrock for 3 years I have been in London and for a time I wanted the help of a psychologist, well Redbridge council was a waste of space, Tower Hamlets was helpful but in the end I went private. I was lucky to be able to pay, how many cant?! I also paid to use Mind services in Gravesham since I was outside the area so dont even go there with how well London treats its residents, Ive had to sort my own problems or go outside London to help sort them. I will admit that Bexley does make more of an effort in general but thats the exception and not the norm for London.[/p][/quote]Generally the further in you are, the better. Bexley don't really help their residents, but better than Dartford. Like your Redbridge & Tower Hamlets example. Greenwich is more helpful than Bexley. Ultimately, it's a case of the political leaning of the borough and how much help they dish out for social stuff. Medway is the anomaly when it comes to Kent - being an opt-out, their services are pretty good. 12341234
  • Score: 0

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