There 'will be a fatality' on refurbished Bexleyheath Broadway crossing

News Shopper: Francis White suffered an accident Francis White suffered an accident

A Welling man has spoken of his fears over potential deaths on a crossing in Bexley after he was knocked off his motorbike last week.

Francis White, 44, paused to let a pedestrian go first at the junction of Albion Road and Bexleyheath Broadway, which has recently been redone, when a car crashed into him from behind.

However, after being rushed to Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Woolwich and speaking to police, he was informed it was not in fact a crossing, despite looking just like one.

The Royal Mail manager is now considering launching a campaign because he said a fatal accident could occur.

News Shopper: 'There will be a fatality' in refurbished Bexleyheath crossing

The Northdown Road resident said: "We are going to see a fatality.

"If the car had been going faster, I wouldn’t be here now.

"The passers-by were amazing and the ambulance staff but I was shocked when police told me it isn’t actually a crossing because it looks just like one.

"I’m going to take this up with Bexley Council. It needs to be clearly labelled whether it is a crossing or not.

"After I had my accident, when I was with the paramedics, we saw another incident happen as well."

News Shopper: Concern over potential deaths in refurbished Bexleyheath

Fortunately Mr White only suffered minor injuries but is he is angry about the trauma of the incident and at having to take time off work.

'Excellence in Walking and Public Realm prize'

A Bexley Council spokesman said: “We cannot pre-empt any police investigation or proportion blame, but having viewed CCTV evidence of the accident it appears that a stationary motorcycle was struck from behind by a car.

“If a stationary vehicle is hit from another vehicle behind, it is normally the person driving the moving vehicle, rather than the road they are on, that is to blame. 

“The Bexleyheath scheme recently won the Excellence in Walking and Public Realm category at the prestigious London Transport Awards. 

"The junction where the collision took place is based on the 'shared space' concept, which aims to create a better balance of priorities between drivers and pedestrians.

“The distinctly striped crossings, together with tactile paving and mounted signs show all road users where pedestrians are expected to cross.

“Although there is no legal requirement to do so, drivers and cyclists are encouraged to stop as they enter and leave the junction if pedestrians are waiting to cross.”

Comments (37)

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11:18am Wed 19 Mar 14

concerned.erith says...

These new crossings are ridiculous! There are no Belisha Beacons warning drivers of them, just a low level signs. After a few months they are not so clearly distinguished from the normal road.

Sort this out before somoene is killed.
These new crossings are ridiculous! There are no Belisha Beacons warning drivers of them, just a low level signs. After a few months they are not so clearly distinguished from the normal road. Sort this out before somoene is killed. concerned.erith
  • Score: 47

11:26am Wed 19 Mar 14

highway warrior says...

nothing to do with the road layout, if he got hit from behind that happens at roundabouts and junctions across the nation daily, it's the dozy fool who hit him where tthe issue lies, obviously paying no attention at all!
nothing to do with the road layout, if he got hit from behind that happens at roundabouts and junctions across the nation daily, it's the dozy fool who hit him where tthe issue lies, obviously paying no attention at all! highway warrior
  • Score: -9

11:28am Wed 19 Mar 14

joertmclark says...

I agree with Mr. White. I've never seen such an awful road layout.
The dangerous part in my perspective is the look-a-like pedestrian crossings and the roundabout. If they are not in fact pedestrian crossings or a roundabout, then confusion amongst drivers and pedestrians will lead to serious accidents.
I agree with Mr. White. I've never seen such an awful road layout. The dangerous part in my perspective is the look-a-like pedestrian crossings and the roundabout. If they are not in fact pedestrian crossings or a roundabout, then confusion amongst drivers and pedestrians will lead to serious accidents. joertmclark
  • Score: 68

11:46am Wed 19 Mar 14

PaulErith says...

Totally agree. Whoever came with the new design for Bexleyheath should be sacked. It's madness. As well as the albion road problem, the layout of the corner or Asda/Kings Arms pub is ridiculous. What's wrong with kerbs? They've worked for many years. They're a nice clear way of distinguishing road and pavement...but no, someone thought it was a good idea to do away with them. If you're walking opposite Asda towards Bexleyheath, it's very easy to accidently cut the corner and find yourself walking in the road.
Also, the junction by the police station is mad. Neither direction has the right of way. What would have been wrong with sticking a little roundabout there? Everyone would know what to do then. As a pedestrian it's really not clear if there's a crossing or not.
Totally agree. Whoever came with the new design for Bexleyheath should be sacked. It's madness. As well as the albion road problem, the layout of the corner or Asda/Kings Arms pub is ridiculous. What's wrong with kerbs? They've worked for many years. They're a nice clear way of distinguishing road and pavement...but no, someone thought it was a good idea to do away with them. If you're walking opposite Asda towards Bexleyheath, it's very easy to accidently cut the corner and find yourself walking in the road. Also, the junction by the police station is mad. Neither direction has the right of way. What would have been wrong with sticking a little roundabout there? Everyone would know what to do then. As a pedestrian it's really not clear if there's a crossing or not. PaulErith
  • Score: 64

12:00pm Wed 19 Mar 14

Citygirl83 says...

I agree the markings are ridiculous, i was in Bexleyheath yesterday and they are quite disorientating to be honest. There are no clear markings, double lines to show you should stop so its pretty much a free for all. I was by the police station heading towards the cinema and the car in front of me allowing someone to cross, I had to stop obvioulsy but had someone coming out of the road to my left who tooted me as I was blocking them. technically it was my right of way but because of no clear markings they assumed they could just pull out whenever they felt like it.
I agree the markings are ridiculous, i was in Bexleyheath yesterday and they are quite disorientating to be honest. There are no clear markings, double lines to show you should stop so its pretty much a free for all. I was by the police station heading towards the cinema and the car in front of me allowing someone to cross, I had to stop obvioulsy but had someone coming out of the road to my left who tooted me as I was blocking them. technically it was my right of way but because of no clear markings they assumed they could just pull out whenever they felt like it. Citygirl83
  • Score: 46

12:27pm Wed 19 Mar 14

gunner1740 says...

I moved from the area 6 years ago and had reason to drive through Bexleyheath the other afternoon. WHAT A MESS !! Who is responsible for this madness they call road layout. Roundabouts that are not !! Zebra crossings that are not !! The confusing lane system. I'm a driver by profession and to say I was bemused....... Not in a good way !!!!
Another wee gem is the lifelike statue outside the junior school in Brook Street. I was poodling past the other day, 20 ish mph and nearly s**t myself and slammed the brakes on thinking there was, what looked like a very small child, on her own about to step into the road !!! Bloody dangerous. Bexley certainly hasnt improved, quite the opposite. I drove the 60 miles home thinking, ' what the hell has happened to this once smart Market town...... Slowly morphing into Woolwich, Croydon, Bromley, etc, etc, faceless carbon copies..... So, so sad.
I moved from the area 6 years ago and had reason to drive through Bexleyheath the other afternoon. WHAT A MESS !! Who is responsible for this madness they call road layout. Roundabouts that are not !! Zebra crossings that are not !! The confusing lane system. I'm a driver by profession and to say I was bemused....... Not in a good way !!!! Another wee gem is the lifelike statue outside the junior school in Brook Street. I was poodling past the other day, 20 ish mph and nearly s**t myself and slammed the brakes on thinking there was, what looked like a very small child, on her own about to step into the road !!! Bloody dangerous. Bexley certainly hasnt improved, quite the opposite. I drove the 60 miles home thinking, ' what the hell has happened to this once smart Market town...... Slowly morphing into Woolwich, Croydon, Bromley, etc, etc, faceless carbon copies..... So, so sad. gunner1740
  • Score: 48

12:35pm Wed 19 Mar 14

Gypo.Joe says...

It's Bexley Council what do you expect common sense ? Some clueless pen pusher waiting for a golden handshake and platinum pension makes the decisions and you lot can go ......well you know what.
It's Bexley Council what do you expect common sense ? Some clueless pen pusher waiting for a golden handshake and platinum pension makes the decisions and you lot can go ......well you know what. Gypo.Joe
  • Score: -24

12:37pm Wed 19 Mar 14

MsChevious says...

Exactly this happened to my husband a couple of months ago - his car was a write-off after he stopped at one of these 'crossings' and the car behind him didn't.

Yes, the car behind should have been able to stop and clearly was driving carelessly, but with no beacons and only low-level signs there is nothing to tell traffic that this is a crossing.

Expecting everyone to take more care in shared spaces is fine, but it rather relys on everyone doing so - and when they don't the whole premise falls apart!
Exactly this happened to my husband a couple of months ago - his car was a write-off after he stopped at one of these 'crossings' and the car behind him didn't. Yes, the car behind should have been able to stop and clearly was driving carelessly, but with no beacons and only low-level signs there is nothing to tell traffic that this is a crossing. Expecting everyone to take more care in shared spaces is fine, but it rather relys on everyone doing so - and when they don't the whole premise falls apart! MsChevious
  • Score: 38

12:50pm Wed 19 Mar 14

PaulErith says...

gunner1740 wrote:
I moved from the area 6 years ago and had reason to drive through Bexleyheath the other afternoon. WHAT A MESS !! Who is responsible for this madness they call road layout. Roundabouts that are not !! Zebra crossings that are not !! The confusing lane system. I'm a driver by profession and to say I was bemused....... Not in a good way !!!!
Another wee gem is the lifelike statue outside the junior school in Brook Street. I was poodling past the other day, 20 ish mph and nearly s**t myself and slammed the brakes on thinking there was, what looked like a very small child, on her own about to step into the road !!! Bloody dangerous. Bexley certainly hasnt improved, quite the opposite. I drove the 60 miles home thinking, ' what the hell has happened to this once smart Market town...... Slowly morphing into Woolwich, Croydon, Bromley, etc, etc, faceless carbon copies..... So, so sad.
I can't make my mind up if the little girl in Brook Street is a really clever idea or a hazard. I guess if it makes people slow down, it's a good idea, but if it makes you brake hard then it's not. I haven't actually driven down there since it's been there so not sure what my reaction would be. However, I did walk past the other day about 11pm, and it scared the granny out of me, so I know where you're coming from.
[quote][p][bold]gunner1740[/bold] wrote: I moved from the area 6 years ago and had reason to drive through Bexleyheath the other afternoon. WHAT A MESS !! Who is responsible for this madness they call road layout. Roundabouts that are not !! Zebra crossings that are not !! The confusing lane system. I'm a driver by profession and to say I was bemused....... Not in a good way !!!! Another wee gem is the lifelike statue outside the junior school in Brook Street. I was poodling past the other day, 20 ish mph and nearly s**t myself and slammed the brakes on thinking there was, what looked like a very small child, on her own about to step into the road !!! Bloody dangerous. Bexley certainly hasnt improved, quite the opposite. I drove the 60 miles home thinking, ' what the hell has happened to this once smart Market town...... Slowly morphing into Woolwich, Croydon, Bromley, etc, etc, faceless carbon copies..... So, so sad.[/p][/quote]I can't make my mind up if the little girl in Brook Street is a really clever idea or a hazard. I guess if it makes people slow down, it's a good idea, but if it makes you brake hard then it's not. I haven't actually driven down there since it's been there so not sure what my reaction would be. However, I did walk past the other day about 11pm, and it scared the granny out of me, so I know where you're coming from. PaulErith
  • Score: 15

1:07pm Wed 19 Mar 14

gunner1740 says...

PaulErith wrote:
gunner1740 wrote:
I moved from the area 6 years ago and had reason to drive through Bexleyheath the other afternoon. WHAT A MESS !! Who is responsible for this madness they call road layout. Roundabouts that are not !! Zebra crossings that are not !! The confusing lane system. I'm a driver by profession and to say I was bemused....... Not in a good way !!!!
Another wee gem is the lifelike statue outside the junior school in Brook Street. I was poodling past the other day, 20 ish mph and nearly s**t myself and slammed the brakes on thinking there was, what looked like a very small child, on her own about to step into the road !!! Bloody dangerous. Bexley certainly hasnt improved, quite the opposite. I drove the 60 miles home thinking, ' what the hell has happened to this once smart Market town...... Slowly morphing into Woolwich, Croydon, Bromley, etc, etc, faceless carbon copies..... So, so sad.
I can't make my mind up if the little girl in Brook Street is a really clever idea or a hazard. I guess if it makes people slow down, it's a good idea, but if it makes you brake hard then it's not. I haven't actually driven down there since it's been there so not sure what my reaction would be. However, I did walk past the other day about 11pm, and it scared the granny out of me, so I know where you're coming from.
Maybe a good idea in principle, but to have her/ it, standing there in non school time or when the kids are in school is I think a bit dangerous. Especially dusk, I was only going slowly and I had to have a double take in a split second. A more inexperienced driver might panic, slam on the breaks, take evasive action, and then what ?
[quote][p][bold]PaulErith[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gunner1740[/bold] wrote: I moved from the area 6 years ago and had reason to drive through Bexleyheath the other afternoon. WHAT A MESS !! Who is responsible for this madness they call road layout. Roundabouts that are not !! Zebra crossings that are not !! The confusing lane system. I'm a driver by profession and to say I was bemused....... Not in a good way !!!! Another wee gem is the lifelike statue outside the junior school in Brook Street. I was poodling past the other day, 20 ish mph and nearly s**t myself and slammed the brakes on thinking there was, what looked like a very small child, on her own about to step into the road !!! Bloody dangerous. Bexley certainly hasnt improved, quite the opposite. I drove the 60 miles home thinking, ' what the hell has happened to this once smart Market town...... Slowly morphing into Woolwich, Croydon, Bromley, etc, etc, faceless carbon copies..... So, so sad.[/p][/quote]I can't make my mind up if the little girl in Brook Street is a really clever idea or a hazard. I guess if it makes people slow down, it's a good idea, but if it makes you brake hard then it's not. I haven't actually driven down there since it's been there so not sure what my reaction would be. However, I did walk past the other day about 11pm, and it scared the granny out of me, so I know where you're coming from.[/p][/quote]Maybe a good idea in principle, but to have her/ it, standing there in non school time or when the kids are in school is I think a bit dangerous. Especially dusk, I was only going slowly and I had to have a double take in a split second. A more inexperienced driver might panic, slam on the breaks, take evasive action, and then what ? gunner1740
  • Score: 9

3:11pm Wed 19 Mar 14

Bestbaz says...

London Transport awards comes under the realm of Boris Johnson. Boris and Bexley Council are Conservative, so would you expect anything else save support for the scheme?.
The whole of Bexleyheath from Albion Road to the police station is dangerous to car drivers, motor cyclists, cyclist etc, and worst for pedestrians especially schoolchildren crossing into Woolwich Road, its " run for your life to avoid ex banger racing bus drivers

Not to mention the cost of this shambles, yet the council state budgets are tight, and look at the spend in their new building.
London Transport awards comes under the realm of Boris Johnson. Boris and Bexley Council are Conservative, so would you expect anything else save support for the scheme?. The whole of Bexleyheath from Albion Road to the police station is dangerous to car drivers, motor cyclists, cyclist etc, and worst for pedestrians especially schoolchildren crossing into Woolwich Road, its " run for your life to avoid ex banger racing bus drivers Not to mention the cost of this shambles, yet the council state budgets are tight, and look at the spend in their new building. Bestbaz
  • Score: 14

3:20pm Wed 19 Mar 14

Wombles4000 says...

highway warrior wrote:
nothing to do with the road layout, if he got hit from behind that happens at roundabouts and junctions across the nation daily, it's the dozy fool who hit him where tthe issue lies, obviously paying no attention at all!
Exactly! It's the moron behind who didn't look what they were doing who drove into him.

These crossings are all over Europe and increasingly the UK. Most people can handle them. They look far more attractive than the ugly mess they replace.
[quote][p][bold]highway warrior[/bold] wrote: nothing to do with the road layout, if he got hit from behind that happens at roundabouts and junctions across the nation daily, it's the dozy fool who hit him where tthe issue lies, obviously paying no attention at all![/p][/quote]Exactly! It's the moron behind who didn't look what they were doing who drove into him. These crossings are all over Europe and increasingly the UK. Most people can handle them. They look far more attractive than the ugly mess they replace. Wombles4000
  • Score: -5

3:30pm Wed 19 Mar 14

mrnaga says...

I would like to echo most of the comments above. The Bexleyheath layout is utterly ridiculous. Several times I have driven past the police station, turning right towards Asda, and not sure whether I have right of way, or whether I am breaking the law. It is just weird. Similarly on the roundabout(?) near the bowling centre, and outside Asda, it's simply not clear where the division between road and pavement is. It is just dangerous, no question. Someone with common sense and guts will look at this in the next year or two and rip it out and turn it back to a normal road I'm sure.
I would like to echo most of the comments above. The Bexleyheath layout is utterly ridiculous. Several times I have driven past the police station, turning right towards Asda, and not sure whether I have right of way, or whether I am breaking the law. It is just weird. Similarly on the roundabout(?) near the bowling centre, and outside Asda, it's simply not clear where the division between road and pavement is. It is just dangerous, no question. Someone with common sense and guts will look at this in the next year or two and rip it out and turn it back to a normal road I'm sure. mrnaga
  • Score: 16

4:01pm Wed 19 Mar 14

clareccc75 says...

I agree! The layout is ridiculous! I'm trying to teach my 3 year old Road safety...impossible in Bexleyheath where even I walked straight into the road just after it was done, believing it was pedestrian only because that's what it feels like...
I agree! The layout is ridiculous! I'm trying to teach my 3 year old Road safety...impossible in Bexleyheath where even I walked straight into the road just after it was done, believing it was pedestrian only because that's what it feels like... clareccc75
  • Score: 13

5:51pm Wed 19 Mar 14

Forensics says...

It would be interesting to hear a driving instructors opinion on the new road layout in Bexleyheath.
How would you teach a learner to negotiate the Broadway?

Road signs and rules of the road are shown in the Highway Code and recognised in every town across the UK but it appears Bexleyheath have chosen to make some new ones.
It would be interesting to hear a driving instructors opinion on the new road layout in Bexleyheath. How would you teach a learner to negotiate the Broadway? Road signs and rules of the road are shown in the Highway Code and recognised in every town across the UK but it appears Bexleyheath have chosen to make some new ones. Forensics
  • Score: 16

6:42pm Wed 19 Mar 14

songwriter72 says...

Can Bexley council confirm that the Albion Road/Broadway junction is in fact legally a roundabout? It has none of the markings from the highway code, no stop lines at entrances to it, or roundabout signage. Am I supposed to give-way-to-the-righ
t or not ?

Does someone have to not give way, have an accident and take it to court to discover the rules applicable to this junction?
Can Bexley council confirm that the Albion Road/Broadway junction is in fact legally a roundabout? It has none of the markings from the highway code, no stop lines at entrances to it, or roundabout signage. Am I supposed to give-way-to-the-righ t or not ? Does someone have to not give way, have an accident and take it to court to discover the rules applicable to this junction? songwriter72
  • Score: 20

7:06pm Wed 19 Mar 14

lollie,erith says...

my friend's son is 8 and he said you dont know what is the road or the pavement. i also notice the wavy paving outside the new council offices. no doubt it wont be long before pedestrians will be falling over that. also who uses pale stone paving for the paving/roads on a busy high street/main road. as soon as the council completed the works, it looked filthy. you wouldnt use that colour paving for your car on your drive. also the newly laid paving was also being dug up at one end by workmen while paving was being laid at the other.
my friend's son is 8 and he said you dont know what is the road or the pavement. i also notice the wavy paving outside the new council offices. no doubt it wont be long before pedestrians will be falling over that. also who uses pale stone paving for the paving/roads on a busy high street/main road. as soon as the council completed the works, it looked filthy. you wouldnt use that colour paving for your car on your drive. also the newly laid paving was also being dug up at one end by workmen while paving was being laid at the other. lollie,erith
  • Score: 14

8:01pm Wed 19 Mar 14

HearTheFacts says...

songwriter72 wrote:
Can Bexley council confirm that the Albion Road/Broadway junction is in fact legally a roundabout? It has none of the markings from the highway code, no stop lines at entrances to it, or roundabout signage. Am I supposed to give-way-to-the-righ

t or not ?

Does someone have to not give way, have an accident and take it to court to discover the rules applicable to this junction?
This junction is in fact a T junction!, yes as crazy as it seems. Having looked at the signs on approach to this junction, yes its a T junction.

The whole factor of the layout in Bexleyheath, is designed as 'shared', so no one has a right of way. Confusing yes, but think about it. In the event of an accident, who has 'right of way'. Well no one, its 'shared' that how confusing this set up is.

Are the road markings legal, that's a further point?.
[quote][p][bold]songwriter72[/bold] wrote: Can Bexley council confirm that the Albion Road/Broadway junction is in fact legally a roundabout? It has none of the markings from the highway code, no stop lines at entrances to it, or roundabout signage. Am I supposed to give-way-to-the-righ t or not ? Does someone have to not give way, have an accident and take it to court to discover the rules applicable to this junction?[/p][/quote]This junction is in fact a T junction!, yes as crazy as it seems. Having looked at the signs on approach to this junction, yes its a T junction. The whole factor of the layout in Bexleyheath, is designed as 'shared', so no one has a right of way. Confusing yes, but think about it. In the event of an accident, who has 'right of way'. Well no one, its 'shared' that how confusing this set up is. Are the road markings legal, that's a further point?. HearTheFacts
  • Score: 14

8:17pm Wed 19 Mar 14

sheriff the hun skelper says...

As well as being dangerous, The newly laid roads are already heavily stained with oil and grime. I was assured by the council that extensive testing had been done to ensure the suitability for this scheme, Cleary not it would seem. And considering the state of the boroughs roads as a whole, I think it is madness that we found money to waste on someone's vanity project when the craters on our roads should be more of a priority.

On a separate point its amazing how our elected officials have zero say in how our borough is run, They are week and ineffective and they will find out at the next elections that the good folks of Bexley are fed up with their inability to make the paid staff in the council more answerable to them and not the other way round.
As well as being dangerous, The newly laid roads are already heavily stained with oil and grime. I was assured by the council that extensive testing had been done to ensure the suitability for this scheme, Cleary not it would seem. And considering the state of the boroughs roads as a whole, I think it is madness that we found money to waste on someone's vanity project when the craters on our roads should be more of a priority. On a separate point its amazing how our elected officials have zero say in how our borough is run, They are week and ineffective and they will find out at the next elections that the good folks of Bexley are fed up with their inability to make the paid staff in the council more answerable to them and not the other way round. sheriff the hun skelper
  • Score: 18

8:23pm Wed 19 Mar 14

toomush2drink says...

Considering that in america they sue over the design of a road junction if involved in a road traffic accident, it appears someone over here is lining themselves up for the first case here.
Considering that in america they sue over the design of a road junction if involved in a road traffic accident, it appears someone over here is lining themselves up for the first case here. toomush2drink
  • Score: 18

8:28pm Wed 19 Mar 14

MaraJade says...

The only dangerous aspect of this are the drivers/riders.
The phrase "Familiarity breeds contempt" rings true here.
Drivers and riders of ALL vehicles, should slow down and give themselves and others time to adjust to this. After all, what would you do in in an unfamiliar town/city?
The scheme has been rolled out in other parts of the country, including on the route to my parents, and it works well enough.
Slow Down, and give yourself TIME TO REACT!
The only dangerous aspect of this are the drivers/riders. The phrase "Familiarity breeds contempt" rings true here. Drivers and riders of ALL vehicles, should slow down and give themselves and others time to adjust to this. After all, what would you do in in an unfamiliar town/city? The scheme has been rolled out in other parts of the country, including on the route to my parents, and it works well enough. Slow Down, and give yourself TIME TO REACT! MaraJade
  • Score: -33

10:26pm Wed 19 Mar 14

chunkybuster says...

why is Bexley council obsessed with messing about with OUR roads and pavements! They rip up all the paving slabs in Merewood road,Barnehurst and put down ashalt ,then rip all the asphalt up in the main road,and put in 'fancy' paving slabs! DER! and what is with the stupid islands in the road! and don't get me started on Welling corner! 18 months of mess and disruption,er more fancy paving! I've lived in this borough for 60 years,and this council loves nothing better than smashing up any nice old building and putting cr*p in it's place,we now live in a right dump!
why is Bexley council obsessed with messing about with OUR roads and pavements! They rip up all the paving slabs in Merewood road,Barnehurst and put down ashalt ,then rip all the asphalt up in the main road,and put in 'fancy' paving slabs! DER! and what is with the stupid islands in the road! and don't get me started on Welling corner! 18 months of mess and disruption,er more fancy paving! I've lived in this borough for 60 years,and this council loves nothing better than smashing up any nice old building and putting cr*p in it's place,we now live in a right dump! chunkybuster
  • Score: 20

7:57am Thu 20 Mar 14

PaulErith says...

MaraJade wrote:
The only dangerous aspect of this are the drivers/riders.
The phrase "Familiarity breeds contempt" rings true here.
Drivers and riders of ALL vehicles, should slow down and give themselves and others time to adjust to this. After all, what would you do in in an unfamiliar town/city?
The scheme has been rolled out in other parts of the country, including on the route to my parents, and it works well enough.
Slow Down, and give yourself TIME TO REACT!
That's a patronising, rubbish comment. The problems in Bexleyheath are nothing to do with people driving badly. I drive carefully, give myself space behind the next car, etc. However, I think the road layouts are dangerous. Familiarity does not breed contempt when it comes to having standard road markings, signs, etc. If you're not sure who has got the right of the way at a junction, it causes confusion. Also, as mentioned, it's not just drivers, it's also dodgy for pedestrians. I have found that I'm walking in the road opposite Asda because there's no distinction between road and pavement. I know and have seen other people doing this too.
[quote][p][bold]MaraJade[/bold] wrote: The only dangerous aspect of this are the drivers/riders. The phrase "Familiarity breeds contempt" rings true here. Drivers and riders of ALL vehicles, should slow down and give themselves and others time to adjust to this. After all, what would you do in in an unfamiliar town/city? The scheme has been rolled out in other parts of the country, including on the route to my parents, and it works well enough. Slow Down, and give yourself TIME TO REACT![/p][/quote]That's a patronising, rubbish comment. The problems in Bexleyheath are nothing to do with people driving badly. I drive carefully, give myself space behind the next car, etc. However, I think the road layouts are dangerous. Familiarity does not breed contempt when it comes to having standard road markings, signs, etc. If you're not sure who has got the right of the way at a junction, it causes confusion. Also, as mentioned, it's not just drivers, it's also dodgy for pedestrians. I have found that I'm walking in the road opposite Asda because there's no distinction between road and pavement. I know and have seen other people doing this too. PaulErith
  • Score: 27

1:36pm Thu 20 Mar 14

Bestbaz says...

Its interesting to see that Bexley Council choose not put any case to NS to support the road layout in Bexleyheath.
Its interesting to see that Bexley Council choose not put any case to NS to support the road layout in Bexleyheath. Bestbaz
  • Score: 13

3:48pm Thu 20 Mar 14

Payne by name says...

It was a ridiculous waste of money building a roundabout that's not a roundabout, putting in pedestrian crossings that aren't pedestrian crossings and then adding some knee high, non Highway Code referenced signage. A great example of Impractical and ineffective town planning.
It was a ridiculous waste of money building a roundabout that's not a roundabout, putting in pedestrian crossings that aren't pedestrian crossings and then adding some knee high, non Highway Code referenced signage. A great example of Impractical and ineffective town planning. Payne by name
  • Score: 20

5:39pm Thu 20 Mar 14

justmytenpenceworth says...

I find it very confusing, a council spokesperson said:

“The distinctly striped crossings, together with tactile paving and mounted signs show all road users where pedestrians are expected to cross.

So although the council states that the red and white striped area is not a pedestrian crossing they refer to the same area in the quote as a distinctive crossing ? with mounted signs displaying a person crossing on a stripped area at that same location as the stripes on the road.
pedestrians and road user are to expect pedestrians to cross at this location so surely does this not make these markings a CROSSING !!!

They also said "The junction where the collision took place is based on the 'shared space' concept, which aims to create a better balance of priorities between drivers and pedestrians.

Ok firstly please tell us who has priority what type of junction is this, you need to define and clarify to allow people to drive properly and within the highway code and not panic an rush out of pure confusion, how can people prioritise if the council themselves cannot identify the junction and crossing point they installed.

lastly they said “Although there is no legal requirement to do so, drivers and cyclists are encouraged to stop as they enter and leave the junction if pedestrians are waiting to cross.”

Is there no legal requirement to stop because the junction it self is not legally defined ? there is no road markings to confirm what type of junction you are approaching and where to stop and apparently any part of the road that looks like something familiar like a crossing or a roundabout is in fact not.

Come on Bexley council its time to make your mind up what's what at this junction and give us all a chance.
I find it very confusing, a council spokesperson said: “The distinctly striped crossings, together with tactile paving and mounted signs show all road users where pedestrians are expected to cross. So although the council states that the red and white striped area is not a pedestrian crossing they refer to the same area in the quote as a distinctive crossing ? with mounted signs displaying a person crossing on a stripped area at that same location as the stripes on the road. pedestrians and road user are to expect pedestrians to cross at this location so surely does this not make these markings a CROSSING !!! They also said "The junction where the collision took place is based on the 'shared space' concept, which aims to create a better balance of priorities between drivers and pedestrians. Ok firstly please tell us who has priority what type of junction is this, you need to define and clarify to allow people to drive properly and within the highway code and not panic an rush out of pure confusion, how can people prioritise if the council themselves cannot identify the junction and crossing point they installed. lastly they said “Although there is no legal requirement to do so, drivers and cyclists are encouraged to stop as they enter and leave the junction if pedestrians are waiting to cross.” Is there no legal requirement to stop because the junction it self is not legally defined ? there is no road markings to confirm what type of junction you are approaching and where to stop and apparently any part of the road that looks like something familiar like a crossing or a roundabout is in fact not. Come on Bexley council its time to make your mind up what's what at this junction and give us all a chance. justmytenpenceworth
  • Score: 20

4:09pm Fri 21 Mar 14

toomush2drink says...

MaraJade wrote:
The only dangerous aspect of this are the drivers/riders.
The phrase "Familiarity breeds contempt" rings true here.
Drivers and riders of ALL vehicles, should slow down and give themselves and others time to adjust to this. After all, what would you do in in an unfamiliar town/city?
The scheme has been rolled out in other parts of the country, including on the route to my parents, and it works well enough.
Slow Down, and give yourself TIME TO REACT!
Ok have you actually taken the time to look at the junction and look at the unclear and lack of road marking ?

So its actually a T junction (which i only found out from this thread) and has no white lines to indicate this.

https://www.gov.uk/r
oad-markings

Thats what th higway code says so is it not surprising nonoe knows whats going on when they approach it ?
[quote][p][bold]MaraJade[/bold] wrote: The only dangerous aspect of this are the drivers/riders. The phrase "Familiarity breeds contempt" rings true here. Drivers and riders of ALL vehicles, should slow down and give themselves and others time to adjust to this. After all, what would you do in in an unfamiliar town/city? The scheme has been rolled out in other parts of the country, including on the route to my parents, and it works well enough. Slow Down, and give yourself TIME TO REACT![/p][/quote]Ok have you actually taken the time to look at the junction and look at the unclear and lack of road marking ? So its actually a T junction (which i only found out from this thread) and has no white lines to indicate this. https://www.gov.uk/r oad-markings Thats what th higway code says so is it not surprising nonoe knows whats going on when they approach it ? toomush2drink
  • Score: 20

9:34am Sat 22 Mar 14

Invicta58 says...

On top of the million's spent on the actual work Bexley Council also paid Parsons Brinkerhoff £4million for traffic consultancy fees. Jump aboard the Bexley Gravy Train !
On top of the million's spent on the actual work Bexley Council also paid Parsons Brinkerhoff £4million for traffic consultancy fees. Jump aboard the Bexley Gravy Train ! Invicta58
  • Score: 20

11:06am Sat 22 Mar 14

LadyFalstaff says...

I couldn't agree more. When it was first done, I stood in the middle of the supposed road because I thought it was pavement. Clear distinction need, also when it snows you cant see any roundabout at all
I couldn't agree more. When it was first done, I stood in the middle of the supposed road because I thought it was pavement. Clear distinction need, also when it snows you cant see any roundabout at all LadyFalstaff
  • Score: 18

3:13pm Sat 22 Mar 14

Sidcupman says...

I think everyone is too fixated on the standards and behaviour patterns of the past and we need to move on. The motorcyclist or any road user could stop suddenly for any reason from stalled engine to avoiding a pedestrian on any part of a road, crossing or not. It is up to the motorist behind to keep a safe distance and not run in to anything or anybody. We are always complaining about being molly coddled and not taking responsibility for our own safety. Now's your chance.
I think everyone is too fixated on the standards and behaviour patterns of the past and we need to move on. The motorcyclist or any road user could stop suddenly for any reason from stalled engine to avoiding a pedestrian on any part of a road, crossing or not. It is up to the motorist behind to keep a safe distance and not run in to anything or anybody. We are always complaining about being molly coddled and not taking responsibility for our own safety. Now's your chance. Sidcupman
  • Score: -31

8:34am Mon 24 Mar 14

Payne by name says...

Sidcupman wrote:
I think everyone is too fixated on the standards and behaviour patterns of the past and we need to move on. The motorcyclist or any road user could stop suddenly for any reason from stalled engine to avoiding a pedestrian on any part of a road, crossing or not. It is up to the motorist behind to keep a safe distance and not run in to anything or anybody. We are always complaining about being molly coddled and not taking responsibility for our own safety. Now's your chance.
Driving on the roads isn't about taking your own approach and interpreting the road as you see fit but following a standard code and practice that everyone does to ensure that we are 'singing from the same hymn sheet'.

Leaving the junction that we have discussed as just some kind of free for all that is open to all kinds of interpretation is foolhardy and reckless. Without any guidance, or precedence, you can have a number of parties claiming that they were in the right whilst the individuals that designed it wash their hands of all responsibility.

It really is a fine example of council's spending money for money's sake with no consideration of it's feasibility or usefulness.
[quote][p][bold]Sidcupman[/bold] wrote: I think everyone is too fixated on the standards and behaviour patterns of the past and we need to move on. The motorcyclist or any road user could stop suddenly for any reason from stalled engine to avoiding a pedestrian on any part of a road, crossing or not. It is up to the motorist behind to keep a safe distance and not run in to anything or anybody. We are always complaining about being molly coddled and not taking responsibility for our own safety. Now's your chance.[/p][/quote]Driving on the roads isn't about taking your own approach and interpreting the road as you see fit but following a standard code and practice that everyone does to ensure that we are 'singing from the same hymn sheet'. Leaving the junction that we have discussed as just some kind of free for all that is open to all kinds of interpretation is foolhardy and reckless. Without any guidance, or precedence, you can have a number of parties claiming that they were in the right whilst the individuals that designed it wash their hands of all responsibility. It really is a fine example of council's spending money for money's sake with no consideration of it's feasibility or usefulness. Payne by name
  • Score: 25

1:49pm Tue 25 Mar 14

martint235 says...

It's a shared space. That means all users occupy the same area and rather than stated above no one having priority, what is supposed to happen is that priority is as normal: pedestrian, cyclist, motorcyclist, car, truck/bus etc. It's not rocket science. If there's a pedestrian walking on to the space, they have priority and you as a driver need to stop. Is that really so difficult to understand?

And as stated, the road has nothing to do with the accident, it was caused by a muppet in a car not paying attention.
It's a shared space. That means all users occupy the same area and rather than stated above no one having priority, what is supposed to happen is that priority is as normal: pedestrian, cyclist, motorcyclist, car, truck/bus etc. It's not rocket science. If there's a pedestrian walking on to the space, they have priority and you as a driver need to stop. Is that really so difficult to understand? And as stated, the road has nothing to do with the accident, it was caused by a muppet in a car not paying attention. martint235
  • Score: -24

11:02pm Wed 26 Mar 14

mainman says...

gunner1740 wrote:
PaulErith wrote:
gunner1740 wrote:
I moved from the area 6 years ago and had reason to drive through Bexleyheath the other afternoon. WHAT A MESS !! Who is responsible for this madness they call road layout. Roundabouts that are not !! Zebra crossings that are not !! The confusing lane system. I'm a driver by profession and to say I was bemused....... Not in a good way !!!!
Another wee gem is the lifelike statue outside the junior school in Brook Street. I was poodling past the other day, 20 ish mph and nearly s**t myself and slammed the brakes on thinking there was, what looked like a very small child, on her own about to step into the road !!! Bloody dangerous. Bexley certainly hasnt improved, quite the opposite. I drove the 60 miles home thinking, ' what the hell has happened to this once smart Market town...... Slowly morphing into Woolwich, Croydon, Bromley, etc, etc, faceless carbon copies..... So, so sad.
I can't make my mind up if the little girl in Brook Street is a really clever idea or a hazard. I guess if it makes people slow down, it's a good idea, but if it makes you brake hard then it's not. I haven't actually driven down there since it's been there so not sure what my reaction would be. However, I did walk past the other day about 11pm, and it scared the granny out of me, so I know where you're coming from.
Maybe a good idea in principle, but to have her/ it, standing there in non school time or when the kids are in school is I think a bit dangerous. Especially dusk, I was only going slowly and I had to have a double take in a split second. A more inexperienced driver might panic, slam on the breaks, take evasive action, and then what ?
how long will it be before somone knocks it down the road
[quote][p][bold]gunner1740[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PaulErith[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gunner1740[/bold] wrote: I moved from the area 6 years ago and had reason to drive through Bexleyheath the other afternoon. WHAT A MESS !! Who is responsible for this madness they call road layout. Roundabouts that are not !! Zebra crossings that are not !! The confusing lane system. I'm a driver by profession and to say I was bemused....... Not in a good way !!!! Another wee gem is the lifelike statue outside the junior school in Brook Street. I was poodling past the other day, 20 ish mph and nearly s**t myself and slammed the brakes on thinking there was, what looked like a very small child, on her own about to step into the road !!! Bloody dangerous. Bexley certainly hasnt improved, quite the opposite. I drove the 60 miles home thinking, ' what the hell has happened to this once smart Market town...... Slowly morphing into Woolwich, Croydon, Bromley, etc, etc, faceless carbon copies..... So, so sad.[/p][/quote]I can't make my mind up if the little girl in Brook Street is a really clever idea or a hazard. I guess if it makes people slow down, it's a good idea, but if it makes you brake hard then it's not. I haven't actually driven down there since it's been there so not sure what my reaction would be. However, I did walk past the other day about 11pm, and it scared the granny out of me, so I know where you're coming from.[/p][/quote]Maybe a good idea in principle, but to have her/ it, standing there in non school time or when the kids are in school is I think a bit dangerous. Especially dusk, I was only going slowly and I had to have a double take in a split second. A more inexperienced driver might panic, slam on the breaks, take evasive action, and then what ?[/p][/quote]how long will it be before somone knocks it down the road mainman
  • Score: 2

11:24pm Wed 26 Mar 14

mainman says...

Bestbaz wrote:
Its interesting to see that Bexley Council choose not put any case to NS to support the road layout in Bexleyheath.
in the tory biased boris biased bexley magazine delivered free, they often mention how good the new look layout is and everyone has good comments for it.
[quote][p][bold]Bestbaz[/bold] wrote: Its interesting to see that Bexley Council choose not put any case to NS to support the road layout in Bexleyheath.[/p][/quote]in the tory biased boris biased bexley magazine delivered free, they often mention how good the new look layout is and everyone has good comments for it. mainman
  • Score: 3

11:39pm Wed 26 Mar 14

mainman says...

martint235 wrote:
It's a shared space. That means all users occupy the same area and rather than stated above no one having priority, what is supposed to happen is that priority is as normal: pedestrian, cyclist, motorcyclist, car, truck/bus etc. It's not rocket science. If there's a pedestrian walking on to the space, they have priority and you as a driver need to stop. Is that really so difficult to understand?

And as stated, the road has nothing to do with the accident, it was caused by a muppet in a car not paying attention.
does that mean I can drive along the undefined pavement or walk along the narrow track in the middle of the road?
[quote][p][bold]martint235[/bold] wrote: It's a shared space. That means all users occupy the same area and rather than stated above no one having priority, what is supposed to happen is that priority is as normal: pedestrian, cyclist, motorcyclist, car, truck/bus etc. It's not rocket science. If there's a pedestrian walking on to the space, they have priority and you as a driver need to stop. Is that really so difficult to understand? And as stated, the road has nothing to do with the accident, it was caused by a muppet in a car not paying attention.[/p][/quote]does that mean I can drive along the undefined pavement or walk along the narrow track in the middle of the road? mainman
  • Score: 2

2:28pm Tue 1 Apr 14

ACsicsek says...

There are already fatalities on Bexley's roads. Shared space schemes like the one in the town centre actually reduce the risk of fatality, because drivers tend to slow down and pay more attention - which they should be doing anyway! The design principles which underpin shared space are supported by the academic evidence.

Some people have a visceral reaction to shared space because they've been brought up under the dichotomy 'roads are for cars, pavements are for people.' But it's silly to forfeit huge areas of public space to dangerous 2-tonne machines. We need to rebalance the use of our roads to encourage all users - cyclists, pedestrians, buses, and yes even private cars - to be able to use them as effectively as possible. Bexley needs to undergo a modal shift, and shared space is one piece of that puzzle.
There are already fatalities on Bexley's roads. Shared space schemes like the one in the town centre actually reduce the risk of fatality, because drivers tend to slow down and pay more attention - which they should be doing anyway! The design principles which underpin shared space are supported by the academic evidence. Some people have a visceral reaction to shared space because they've been brought up under the dichotomy 'roads are for cars, pavements are for people.' But it's silly to forfeit huge areas of public space to dangerous 2-tonne machines. We need to rebalance the use of our roads to encourage all users - cyclists, pedestrians, buses, and yes even private cars - to be able to use them as effectively as possible. Bexley needs to undergo a modal shift, and shared space is one piece of that puzzle. ACsicsek
  • Score: 0

2:31pm Tue 1 Apr 14

ACsicsek says...

mainman wrote:
martint235 wrote:
It's a shared space. That means all users occupy the same area and rather than stated above no one having priority, what is supposed to happen is that priority is as normal: pedestrian, cyclist, motorcyclist, car, truck/bus etc. It's not rocket science. If there's a pedestrian walking on to the space, they have priority and you as a driver need to stop. Is that really so difficult to understand?

And as stated, the road has nothing to do with the accident, it was caused by a muppet in a car not paying attention.
does that mean I can drive along the undefined pavement or walk along the narrow track in the middle of the road?
No. The simple and obvious explanation for why pedestrians need separate 'safe space' apart from the other shared space is that if a pedestrian bumps into someone, they aren't likely to cause death or serious bodily harm. If a car bumps into someone, that is a very real possibility.

Surely you see the difference between a human being and a giant medal machine, and that they need to be treated differently in public places?
[quote][p][bold]mainman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]martint235[/bold] wrote: It's a shared space. That means all users occupy the same area and rather than stated above no one having priority, what is supposed to happen is that priority is as normal: pedestrian, cyclist, motorcyclist, car, truck/bus etc. It's not rocket science. If there's a pedestrian walking on to the space, they have priority and you as a driver need to stop. Is that really so difficult to understand? And as stated, the road has nothing to do with the accident, it was caused by a muppet in a car not paying attention.[/p][/quote]does that mean I can drive along the undefined pavement or walk along the narrow track in the middle of the road?[/p][/quote]No. The simple and obvious explanation for why pedestrians need separate 'safe space' apart from the other shared space is that if a pedestrian bumps into someone, they aren't likely to cause death or serious bodily harm. If a car bumps into someone, that is a very real possibility. Surely you see the difference between a human being and a giant medal machine, and that they need to be treated differently in public places? ACsicsek
  • Score: 0

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