Woolwich, Downham and New Cross fire station closures to lead to increased response times, according to London Fire Brigade figures

FIRE station closures could ‘mean the difference between life and death’ in some wards as figures show firefighters will be unable to reach incidents within their target response time, it is claimed.

Mayor of London Boris Johnson’s cost-cutting plan includes closing Woolwich, Downham and New Cross stations, along with the loss of 520 firefighters across the capital.

London Fire Brigade says under the plans – which would save £29m – the service would maintain its existing London-wide target attendance target of getting a first fire engine to an emergency within six minutes.

But LFB figures revealed by London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority member Darren Johnson show modelled fire response times will be outside targets in forty more wards under the Mayor’s planned fire station closures, taking the number of wards outside target times to 307.

The 40 additional wards include Downham and Whitefoot on the Bromley/ Lewisham borough border as well as Grove Park, Telegraph Hill and Woolwich Common.

London Assembly member Mr Johnson said: “These figures show some local neighbourhoods will be badly hit by the Mayor’s fire station closures.

“These unnecessary closures are a result of the mayor’s trifling 7p a week council tax cut.

“A delay in response times can literally mean the difference between life and death.

“Londoners still have until June 17 to tell the Mayor what their priorities are by responding to the safety plan consultation.”

A LFB spokeswoman said: "The proposals currently out for public consultation seek to maintain our London-wide response targets, which as a London-wide fire brigade is how we plan the service we provide.

"The ward level data shows how varied response times are across the capital.

"As is the case now, more than half of all London wards would, on average, continue to get a first response within the six minute target if the proposals are agreed."

A public meeting about the proposals is being held in Lewisham next Wednesday (May 22) from 7pm to 9pm at Sydenham School, Dartmouth Road, Sydenham.

Bromley residents are invited to a public meeting about the proposals next Thursday (May 23) from 7pm to 9pm at Bromley Central Library in the High Street, Bromley.

In Greenwich the public meeting is taking place the following Wednesday (May 29) from 7pm to 9pm at Lecture Theatre 315, King William Building, University of Greenwich, 30 Park Row, Greenwich.

Have your say on the proposals by visiting london-fire.gov.uk/lsp5 , call 08009 888569, or write to the London Fire Brigade at 169 Union Street, London, SE1 0LL by June 17.

RESPONSE TIMES

Ward - - - - - - - - - -Before - - - - - After - - - - - - - - Change

Whitefoot               05:08             07:57                  2:49

Telegraph Hill         05:15             07:24                  2:09

Downham               05:54             07:38                  1:44

Grove Park             05:10             06:27                   1:17

Woolwich Common 05:32             06:36                  1:04

Comments (11)

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3:52pm Tue 14 May 13

Methodman says...

Firefighters know that a fire will double in size every sixty seconds,a two minute increase in attendance time means the fire is 4 times larger.
For firefighters arriving at the scene of a compartment fire before the 7 minute mark is crucial,they have been taught that this is the point in a fire when the roof of a building may collapse.This is why every effort is made to get inside a building as soon as possible to get water on a fire to bring it under control.
If firefighters are not even arriving at the scene of a fire until after the 7 minute mark this will lead to them having to fight the fire defensively from outside and will increase the number of buildings that are lost to fire.
Insurance companies will inevitably pass on their increased costs to policy holders these increased premiums are likely to cost substantially more per Household than the 1 pence per day that Boris Johnson is trying to save from each Council Tax bill.
London currently has one of the best fire services in the World provided for Londoners at less than £1 per week per Household,Boris Johnson wants to destroy it for a point scoring exercise to prove he can make cuts for cuts sake.
Boris is prepared to pay for these cuts with the lives of Londoners and firefighters alike.
Firefighters know that a fire will double in size every sixty seconds,a two minute increase in attendance time means the fire is 4 times larger. For firefighters arriving at the scene of a compartment fire before the 7 minute mark is crucial,they have been taught that this is the point in a fire when the roof of a building may collapse.This is why every effort is made to get inside a building as soon as possible to get water on a fire to bring it under control. If firefighters are not even arriving at the scene of a fire until after the 7 minute mark this will lead to them having to fight the fire defensively from outside and will increase the number of buildings that are lost to fire. Insurance companies will inevitably pass on their increased costs to policy holders these increased premiums are likely to cost substantially more per Household than the 1 pence per day that Boris Johnson is trying to save from each Council Tax bill. London currently has one of the best fire services in the World provided for Londoners at less than £1 per week per Household,Boris Johnson wants to destroy it for a point scoring exercise to prove he can make cuts for cuts sake. Boris is prepared to pay for these cuts with the lives of Londoners and firefighters alike. Methodman

9:52pm Tue 14 May 13

bnorther says...

Whilst I am against these cuts, I do feel that the "professional" fire fighters need to behave a bit more.

Driving around Bromley with "Ring of Fire" by Mr Cash blaring so load out of the fire engine that it can be heard, and I kid you not, 4 or more streets away is hardly a professional image!? Not just a one off either. I've counted 10+ times in the last few months, and I live some distance away from the fire station.

If I was to do it I would have the Police round and slapped with an ASBO.
Whilst I am against these cuts, I do feel that the "professional" fire fighters need to behave a bit more. Driving around Bromley with "Ring of Fire" by Mr Cash blaring so load out of the fire engine that it can be heard, and I kid you not, 4 or more streets away is hardly a professional image!? Not just a one off either. I've counted 10+ times in the last few months, and I live some distance away from the fire station. If I was to do it I would have the Police round and slapped with an ASBO. bnorther

7:53am Wed 15 May 13

Methodman says...

Bnorther,you will find that the vehicle driving round playing ring of fire is not a London Fire Brigade engine,it is owned by the Firefighters Union and operated by the union to raise awareness of the proposed cuts in the areas worst affected.
Bnorther,you will find that the vehicle driving round playing ring of fire is not a London Fire Brigade engine,it is owned by the Firefighters Union and operated by the union to raise awareness of the proposed cuts in the areas worst affected. Methodman

9:33am Wed 15 May 13

bnorther says...

Methodman wrote:
Bnorther,you will find that the vehicle driving round playing ring of fire is not a London Fire Brigade engine,it is owned by the Firefighters Union and operated by the union to raise awareness of the proposed cuts in the areas worst affected.
Regardless, its still not a professional image.

If you or I were to play music that loud, we would soon be told to shut up, by the public and the Police.
[quote][p][bold]Methodman[/bold] wrote: Bnorther,you will find that the vehicle driving round playing ring of fire is not a London Fire Brigade engine,it is owned by the Firefighters Union and operated by the union to raise awareness of the proposed cuts in the areas worst affected.[/p][/quote]Regardless, its still not a professional image. If you or I were to play music that loud, we would soon be told to shut up, by the public and the Police. bnorther

10:44am Wed 15 May 13

Gypo.Joe says...

What this vehicle should be playing and would be much more appropriate would be " The Red Flag "

" The people's flag is deepest red,
It shrouded oft our martyred dead,
And ere their limbs grew stiff and cold,
Their hearts' blood dyed its ev'ry fold.


Then raise the scarlet standard high.
Within its shade we'll live and die,
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We'll keep the red flag flying here."


etcetera etcetera.
What this vehicle should be playing and would be much more appropriate would be " The Red Flag " " The people's flag is deepest red, It shrouded oft our martyred dead, And ere their limbs grew stiff and cold, Their hearts' blood dyed its ev'ry fold. Then raise the scarlet standard high. Within its shade we'll live and die, Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer, We'll keep the red flag flying here." etcetera etcetera. Gypo.Joe

11:45am Wed 15 May 13

Methodman says...

Would you rather the vehicle drove around displaying a white flag of surrender?
Would you rather the vehicle drove around displaying a white flag of surrender? Methodman

12:17pm Wed 15 May 13

Gypo.Joe says...

Whenever I hear that tune "Ring of Fire" I think of hemorrhoids and A holes so I suppose there's a certain irony in your unions choice of tune.
Whenever I hear that tune "Ring of Fire" I think of hemorrhoids and A holes so I suppose there's a certain irony in your unions choice of tune. Gypo.Joe

12:55pm Wed 15 May 13

PaulErith says...

Good luck to the firemen. I normally have very anti-union views. In this case, I don't care what their motive it, but I hope that they could stop the closures. The basic fact is that if your local station closes, it will take longer for them to arrive. That's the difference between losing your whole house rather than them getting there in time to contain it.
Good luck to the firemen. I normally have very anti-union views. In this case, I don't care what their motive it, but I hope that they could stop the closures. The basic fact is that if your local station closes, it will take longer for them to arrive. That's the difference between losing your whole house rather than them getting there in time to contain it. PaulErith

4:09pm Wed 15 May 13

the wall says...

bnorther wrote:
Methodman wrote:
Bnorther,you will find that the vehicle driving round playing ring of fire is not a London Fire Brigade engine,it is owned by the Firefighters Union and operated by the union to raise awareness of the proposed cuts in the areas worst affected.
Regardless, its still not a professional image.

If you or I were to play music that loud, we would soon be told to shut up, by the public and the Police.
Section 59 targets ‘vehicles used in a manner causing alarm, distress or annoyance. Report it if it's causing you distress.
[quote][p][bold]bnorther[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Methodman[/bold] wrote: Bnorther,you will find that the vehicle driving round playing ring of fire is not a London Fire Brigade engine,it is owned by the Firefighters Union and operated by the union to raise awareness of the proposed cuts in the areas worst affected.[/p][/quote]Regardless, its still not a professional image. If you or I were to play music that loud, we would soon be told to shut up, by the public and the Police.[/p][/quote]Section 59 targets ‘vehicles used in a manner causing alarm, distress or annoyance. Report it if it's causing you distress. the wall

8:07am Fri 17 May 13

glenn_london says...

The table shown in the article does not show what change in response times will happen with the introduction of the additional appliance at Orpington. Surely this would assist in pushing times back up towards the expected 'norm'?
The table shown in the article does not show what change in response times will happen with the introduction of the additional appliance at Orpington. Surely this would assist in pushing times back up towards the expected 'norm'? glenn_london

11:16am Fri 17 May 13

Gypo.Joe says...

"Fire and rescue services in England could save up to £200m a year if they were operated more efficiently, according to a report.

The last decade has seen a 40% reduction in call-outs and incidents, and accidental deaths from fires in the home have reached an all-time low, yet expenditure and firefighter numbers have remained broadly the same.

The independent report by Sir Ken Knight, former chief Fire and Rescue adviser for England, found that services continue to spend according to the budget they are given rather than the risks they have to manage."


Way past time for a change. I know you Union boys don't like it but that's the hard facts.
Now I'm very suspicious of all these rubbish and derelict building fires now too.
"Fire and rescue services in England could save up to £200m a year if they were operated more efficiently, according to a report. The last decade has seen a 40% reduction in call-outs and incidents, and accidental deaths from fires in the home have reached an all-time low, yet expenditure and firefighter numbers have remained broadly the same. The independent report by Sir Ken Knight, former chief Fire and Rescue adviser for England, found that services continue to spend according to the budget they are given rather than the risks they have to manage." Way past time for a change. I know you Union boys don't like it but that's the hard facts. Now I'm very suspicious of all these rubbish and derelict building fires now too. Gypo.Joe

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