Man guilty of dropping cigarette in Orpington would 'rather go to prison than pay fine'

Bryan Langford was fined £100 for dropping a cigarette, even though he claims he picked it up almost immediately.

Bryan Langford was fined £100 for dropping a cigarette, even though he claims he picked it up almost immediately.

First published in News
Last updated
News Shopper: Photograph of the Author by , deputy news editor

A MAN found guilty of dropping a cigarette in Orpington High Street says he would rather go to prison than pay a £100 fine.

Bryan Langford, of Rookery Gardens, St Mary Cray, was charged with contravening the 1990 Environment Protection Act by dropping litter and failing to pick it up on September 17 last year.

The 58-year-old, who is a full-time carer for his disabled wife, admits he dropped the cigarette, but claims he picked it up almost immediately.

After hearing the verdict he told News Shopper that the £100 fine and £875 court costs will leave him in desperate financial straits.

He said: "I might as well go jump under a train.

"I am f****d and they want me to pay all this money - all over a cigarette that I picked up.

"I'd rather go to prison for three months than pay the fine."

Mr Langford told Bromley Magistrates' Court on Monday (25 March): "I admit I dropped a cigarette on the floor - but I walked into the Post Office and walked out to pick up the cigarette around 30 seconds later.

"Surely the fact I picked it up makes me innocent?"

Ranya Smilyanova was the Bromley Council enforcement officer who issued the fine.

She told magistrates: "I saw Mr Langford dropping the cigarette on the ground outside the post office and going inside.

"I waited outside for five or 10 minutes.

"I introduced myself and we issued him with a fixed penalty notice.

"He didn't come out after 30 seconds - he came out approximately 10 minutes after and that is when our conversation began."

However Ms Smilyanova also conceded that when she looked for the cigarette end she couldn't find it.

Bromley magistrates said the fact Mr Langford had left the cigarette initially meant he was guilty.

But with only £90 in income support and £58 of care money a week, he fears that paying the fine will be impossible.

Comments (75)

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1:35pm Tue 26 Mar 13

kentlad says...

I'm not taking sides but come on.... doesnt the council have more important things to worry about for god sake!!!
I'm not taking sides but come on.... doesnt the council have more important things to worry about for god sake!!! kentlad
  • Score: 1

1:41pm Tue 26 Mar 13

Wispy Wonder says...

It's time the council took a stance on antisocial behaviour - let him go to jail if he wants.
It's time the council took a stance on antisocial behaviour - let him go to jail if he wants. Wispy Wonder
  • Score: 0

1:49pm Tue 26 Mar 13

MsChevious says...

Really? His intention was to pick it up when he exited the Post Office or did he do that because he'd been caught? To be fair he broke the law and should've paid the FPN rather than wasting time in hoping to get out of it.

Go to jail then, perhaps that will deter people from thinking that fag butts aren't really litter.

One more thing - if he's able to budget fags into his benefits then he should be able to budget in paying the fine.
Really? His intention was to pick it up when he exited the Post Office or did he do that because he'd been caught? To be fair he broke the law and should've paid the FPN rather than wasting time in hoping to get out of it. Go to jail then, perhaps that will deter people from thinking that fag butts aren't really litter. One more thing - if he's able to budget fags into his benefits then he should be able to budget in paying the fine. MsChevious
  • Score: 0

1:57pm Tue 26 Mar 13

mcreedy says...

I see plenty of people spitting on the street - these people should be issued fines. Spreading diseases as well as it being totally and utterly disgusting and unnecessary.

Smokers are discriminated against enough already. If there were sufficient bins where fags could be extinguished then I am sure this would stop people stubbing them out in the street.

The fact the enforcement officer couldnt find the butt will hopefully go in this mans favour.
I see plenty of people spitting on the street - these people should be issued fines. Spreading diseases as well as it being totally and utterly disgusting and unnecessary. Smokers are discriminated against enough already. If there were sufficient bins where fags could be extinguished then I am sure this would stop people stubbing them out in the street. The fact the enforcement officer couldnt find the butt will hopefully go in this mans favour. mcreedy
  • Score: 1

2:30pm Tue 26 Mar 13

handymanchris says...

mcreedy wrote:
I see plenty of people spitting on the street - these people should be issued fines. Spreading diseases as well as it being totally and utterly disgusting and unnecessary.

Smokers are discriminated against enough already. If there were sufficient bins where fags could be extinguished then I am sure this would stop people stubbing them out in the street.

The fact the enforcement officer couldnt find the butt will hopefully go in this mans favour.
Just another image of society.

Not accepting liability for his own actions.

The offence was completed soon as he threw it on the floor, regardless of picking it back up..... almost immediately? what is that??!?!

I would rather the council target people who throw cigarette butts on the floor, litter and spit and save council tax increasing.
[quote][p][bold]mcreedy[/bold] wrote: I see plenty of people spitting on the street - these people should be issued fines. Spreading diseases as well as it being totally and utterly disgusting and unnecessary. Smokers are discriminated against enough already. If there were sufficient bins where fags could be extinguished then I am sure this would stop people stubbing them out in the street. The fact the enforcement officer couldnt find the butt will hopefully go in this mans favour.[/p][/quote]Just another image of society. Not accepting liability for his own actions. The offence was completed soon as he threw it on the floor, regardless of picking it back up..... almost immediately? what is that??!?! I would rather the council target people who throw cigarette butts on the floor, litter and spit and save council tax increasing. handymanchris
  • Score: 0

2:30pm Tue 26 Mar 13

Eagles_Man says...

This is what zero-tolerance looks like.

Anyway, the court clearly didn't believe his dodgy story. Even if he was telling the truth, the offence was committed - after all, a burglary is a burglary even if the thief returns the gear the next day.

And as someone else above has suggested, how many weeks fags does the fine equal? Maybe the council have done him a favour.
This is what zero-tolerance looks like. Anyway, the court clearly didn't believe his dodgy story. Even if he was telling the truth, the offence was committed - after all, a burglary is a burglary even if the thief returns the gear the next day. And as someone else above has suggested, how many weeks fags does the fine equal? Maybe the council have done him a favour. Eagles_Man
  • Score: -1

2:44pm Tue 26 Mar 13

Virtual-Monster says...

He deserves everything that comes his way. The simple answer to all of this would have been for him to choose not to drop his disgusting fag end on the floor.

He could also have paid the fixed penalty quickly and avoided Court and the associated costs.

He did neither of these things and now he rightfully faces a far more severe penalty and remember he now also has a criminal record.

The lesson is clear for all dirty, lazy litter dropping scumbags - Don't do it because you might get caught and will suffer the consequences.
He deserves everything that comes his way. The simple answer to all of this would have been for him to choose not to drop his disgusting fag end on the floor. He could also have paid the fixed penalty quickly and avoided Court and the associated costs. He did neither of these things and now he rightfully faces a far more severe penalty and remember he now also has a criminal record. The lesson is clear for all dirty, lazy litter dropping scumbags - Don't do it because you might get caught and will suffer the consequences. Virtual-Monster
  • Score: -1

3:07pm Tue 26 Mar 13

AGL 1965 says...

how ridiculous shame the council don't spend their time looking for people who let their dogs foul the pavements
how ridiculous shame the council don't spend their time looking for people who let their dogs foul the pavements AGL 1965
  • Score: 1

3:12pm Tue 26 Mar 13

simonwebb70 says...

The fact is he did wrong but common sense would be to give him the chance to pick it up and jog on which he says he attempted to do.
The fact is he did wrong but common sense would be to give him the chance to pick it up and jog on which he says he attempted to do. simonwebb70
  • Score: 1

3:39pm Tue 26 Mar 13

Gypo.Joe says...

"Rookery Gardens, St Mary Cray"


Typical council tenant behavior !!

Nuff said, I rest my case.
"Rookery Gardens, St Mary Cray" Typical council tenant behavior !! Nuff said, I rest my case. Gypo.Joe
  • Score: -1

3:39pm Tue 26 Mar 13

Slonik says...

AGL 1965 wrote:
how ridiculous shame the council don't spend their time looking for people who let their dogs foul the pavements
If you check the Bromley website you will find dog fouling is subject to similar enforcement.
[quote][p][bold]AGL 1965[/bold] wrote: how ridiculous shame the council don't spend their time looking for people who let their dogs foul the pavements[/p][/quote]If you check the Bromley website you will find dog fouling is subject to similar enforcement. Slonik
  • Score: 0

3:41pm Tue 26 Mar 13

mouthalmighty says...

This man cares not for his 'disabled' wife, or he would have paid and shut up. Sending him to jail would probably cost the public purse a lot more than the fine and associated cost, as his wife will have to be looked after by agencies, or dosent he care. I wouldn't commit a crime knowing how the punishment would affect my loved one.

My next point is that not all thieves who return their 'wares' are punished. if you remember the august riots where that well off father and son from Orpington were let off because they returned the goods they 'stole'.

But then again, one rule for the rich(do as you please) and several rules for the poor, including do as I say not as I do.

Back to the subject reported, I feel sorry for the wife, kniowing her husband thinks so little of her.
This man cares not for his 'disabled' wife, or he would have paid and shut up. Sending him to jail would probably cost the public purse a lot more than the fine and associated cost, as his wife will have to be looked after by agencies, or dosent he care. I wouldn't commit a crime knowing how the punishment would affect my loved one. My next point is that not all thieves who return their 'wares' are punished. if you remember the august riots where that well off father and son from Orpington were let off because they returned the goods they 'stole'. But then again, one rule for the rich(do as you please) and several rules for the poor, including do as I say not as I do. Back to the subject reported, I feel sorry for the wife, kniowing her husband thinks so little of her. mouthalmighty
  • Score: 1

3:47pm Tue 26 Mar 13

Petra69 says...

Hope this man really does go to Prison. He deserves it. If he is so hard up why is he smoking in the first place? He is just scum
Hope this man really does go to Prison. He deserves it. If he is so hard up why is he smoking in the first place? He is just scum Petra69
  • Score: -1

3:53pm Tue 26 Mar 13

Gypo.Joe says...

I just noticed he even has a 'arry wragg' on in the photo. Bryan Langford never got that big 'ol red face and nose from tea drinking, just an old p1ss head too.
I just noticed he even has a 'arry wragg' on in the photo. Bryan Langford never got that big 'ol red face and nose from tea drinking, just an old p1ss head too. Gypo.Joe
  • Score: 0

4:14pm Tue 26 Mar 13

Dreamsofnurse says...

Gypo.Joe wrote:
I just noticed he even has a 'arry wragg' on in the photo. Bryan Langford never got that big 'ol red face and nose from tea drinking, just an old p1ss head too.
Yeh, I noticed the oily in the picture, too. Wonder where he dropped that one!?
[quote][p][bold]Gypo.Joe[/bold] wrote: I just noticed he even has a 'arry wragg' on in the photo. Bryan Langford never got that big 'ol red face and nose from tea drinking, just an old p1ss head too.[/p][/quote]Yeh, I noticed the oily in the picture, too. Wonder where he dropped that one!? Dreamsofnurse
  • Score: 0

4:52pm Tue 26 Mar 13

ksc says...

handymanchris wrote:
mcreedy wrote:
I see plenty of people spitting on the street - these people should be issued fines. Spreading diseases as well as it being totally and utterly disgusting and unnecessary.

Smokers are discriminated against enough already. If there were sufficient bins where fags could be extinguished then I am sure this would stop people stubbing them out in the street.

The fact the enforcement officer couldnt find the butt will hopefully go in this mans favour.
Just another image of society.

Not accepting liability for his own actions.

The offence was completed soon as he threw it on the floor, regardless of picking it back up..... almost immediately? what is that??!?!

I would rather the council target people who throw cigarette butts on the floor, litter and spit and save council tax increasing.
Just assume for one moment that first thing tomorrow no one dropped litter ever again, how long would the councils take to sack hundreds of council employees, I'm talking about the men and woman who keep our streets clean, it's a snowball effect, no litter - no road cleaners - ex road cleaners can't pay the bills - crime rate rises - more people in prison - council tax rises - anarchy on the (very clean) streets, for the love of god, let the man drop a fag butt, it keeps the rioters at bay!
[quote][p][bold]handymanchris[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mcreedy[/bold] wrote: I see plenty of people spitting on the street - these people should be issued fines. Spreading diseases as well as it being totally and utterly disgusting and unnecessary. Smokers are discriminated against enough already. If there were sufficient bins where fags could be extinguished then I am sure this would stop people stubbing them out in the street. The fact the enforcement officer couldnt find the butt will hopefully go in this mans favour.[/p][/quote]Just another image of society. Not accepting liability for his own actions. The offence was completed soon as he threw it on the floor, regardless of picking it back up..... almost immediately? what is that??!?! I would rather the council target people who throw cigarette butts on the floor, litter and spit and save council tax increasing.[/p][/quote]Just assume for one moment that first thing tomorrow no one dropped litter ever again, how long would the councils take to sack hundreds of council employees, I'm talking about the men and woman who keep our streets clean, it's a snowball effect, no litter - no road cleaners - ex road cleaners can't pay the bills - crime rate rises - more people in prison - council tax rises - anarchy on the (very clean) streets, for the love of god, let the man drop a fag butt, it keeps the rioters at bay! ksc
  • Score: 1

5:00pm Tue 26 Mar 13

goldenbroomboy says...

This is interesting, posters have got so carried away slagging Mr Langford & cheering his financial ruin, nobody has noticed that the so called "Enforcement Officer" bears the name Ranya Smilyanova, very probably an immigrant from the EU or former Soviet Union.

What happended to all the "Out of the EU, they are taking our jobs" rants we were reading not so long ago?
This is interesting, posters have got so carried away slagging Mr Langford & cheering his financial ruin, nobody has noticed that the so called "Enforcement Officer" bears the name Ranya Smilyanova, very probably an immigrant from the EU or former Soviet Union. What happended to all the "Out of the EU, they are taking our jobs" rants we were reading not so long ago? goldenbroomboy
  • Score: 1

5:06pm Tue 26 Mar 13

ksc says...

mouthalmighty wrote:
This man cares not for his 'disabled' wife, or he would have paid and shut up. Sending him to jail would probably cost the public purse a lot more than the fine and associated cost, as his wife will have to be looked after by agencies, or dosent he care. I wouldn't commit a crime knowing how the punishment would affect my loved one.

My next point is that not all thieves who return their 'wares' are punished. if you remember the august riots where that well off father and son from Orpington were let off because they returned the goods they 'stole'.

But then again, one rule for the rich(do as you please) and several rules for the poor, including do as I say not as I do.

Back to the subject reported, I feel sorry for the wife, kniowing her husband thinks so little of her.
Perhaps he really can't afford the fine, yes he should have been a model citizen and not dropped the dog end, but we're not talking about a lorry load of fly tippers waste are we, it's just a fag butt, it's just the council trying to get money from the people, and amazingly the people seem to be happy with that.
[quote][p][bold]mouthalmighty[/bold] wrote: This man cares not for his 'disabled' wife, or he would have paid and shut up. Sending him to jail would probably cost the public purse a lot more than the fine and associated cost, as his wife will have to be looked after by agencies, or dosent he care. I wouldn't commit a crime knowing how the punishment would affect my loved one. My next point is that not all thieves who return their 'wares' are punished. if you remember the august riots where that well off father and son from Orpington were let off because they returned the goods they 'stole'. But then again, one rule for the rich(do as you please) and several rules for the poor, including do as I say not as I do. Back to the subject reported, I feel sorry for the wife, kniowing her husband thinks so little of her.[/p][/quote]Perhaps he really can't afford the fine, yes he should have been a model citizen and not dropped the dog end, but we're not talking about a lorry load of fly tippers waste are we, it's just a fag butt, it's just the council trying to get money from the people, and amazingly the people seem to be happy with that. ksc
  • Score: 1

7:12pm Tue 26 Mar 13

rarecockneyguvnor says...

Old Langford looks like your typical BNP supporter/activist. ROFL
Old Langford looks like your typical BNP supporter/activist. ROFL rarecockneyguvnor
  • Score: 0

7:52pm Tue 26 Mar 13

Marty1979 says...

"I dropped a cigarette on the floor - but I walked into the Post Office and walked out to pick up the cigarette around 30 seconds later."

So he went into the post office (to get his benefit?). 30 seconds, yeah right

He went out to pick up the cigarette - really?

If he'd paid the FPN it wouldn't have cost as much (discount for paying early). He hoped the council wouldn't bother, then took a chance that the court would side with him

He lost
"I dropped a cigarette on the floor - but I walked into the Post Office and walked out to pick up the cigarette around 30 seconds later." So he went into the post office (to get his benefit?). 30 seconds, yeah right He went out to pick up the cigarette - really? If he'd paid the FPN it wouldn't have cost as much (discount for paying early). He hoped the council wouldn't bother, then took a chance that the court would side with him He lost Marty1979
  • Score: 1

8:09pm Tue 26 Mar 13

Gypo.Joe says...

rarecockneyguvnor wrote:
Old Langford looks like your typical BNP supporter/activist. ROFL
ROFLMAO.

Its the beer belly that's the give away.
[quote][p][bold]rarecockneyguvnor[/bold] wrote: Old Langford looks like your typical BNP supporter/activist. ROFL[/p][/quote]ROFLMAO. Its the beer belly that's the give away. Gypo.Joe
  • Score: 0

8:29pm Tue 26 Mar 13

banjo8 says...

He tried to play the system and lost - simple as. It's a filthy habit and he has no right to inflict it upon the rest of us.
If he doesn't want to pay the fine and would rather spend time in prison then let him. Locking him up would probably be doing his wife a favour anyway.
He tried to play the system and lost - simple as. It's a filthy habit and he has no right to inflict it upon the rest of us. If he doesn't want to pay the fine and would rather spend time in prison then let him. Locking him up would probably be doing his wife a favour anyway. banjo8
  • Score: 0

8:55pm Tue 26 Mar 13

handymanchris says...

ksc wrote:
handymanchris wrote:
mcreedy wrote:
I see plenty of people spitting on the street - these people should be issued fines. Spreading diseases as well as it being totally and utterly disgusting and unnecessary.

Smokers are discriminated against enough already. If there were sufficient bins where fags could be extinguished then I am sure this would stop people stubbing them out in the street.

The fact the enforcement officer couldnt find the butt will hopefully go in this mans favour.
Just another image of society.

Not accepting liability for his own actions.

The offence was completed soon as he threw it on the floor, regardless of picking it back up..... almost immediately? what is that??!?!

I would rather the council target people who throw cigarette butts on the floor, litter and spit and save council tax increasing.
Just assume for one moment that first thing tomorrow no one dropped litter ever again, how long would the councils take to sack hundreds of council employees, I'm talking about the men and woman who keep our streets clean, it's a snowball effect, no litter - no road cleaners - ex road cleaners can't pay the bills - crime rate rises - more people in prison - council tax rises - anarchy on the (very clean) streets, for the love of god, let the man drop a fag butt, it keeps the rioters at bay!
That would be bliss however im sure the council could get the workers to sort out the pot holes everywhere!
[quote][p][bold]ksc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]handymanchris[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mcreedy[/bold] wrote: I see plenty of people spitting on the street - these people should be issued fines. Spreading diseases as well as it being totally and utterly disgusting and unnecessary. Smokers are discriminated against enough already. If there were sufficient bins where fags could be extinguished then I am sure this would stop people stubbing them out in the street. The fact the enforcement officer couldnt find the butt will hopefully go in this mans favour.[/p][/quote]Just another image of society. Not accepting liability for his own actions. The offence was completed soon as he threw it on the floor, regardless of picking it back up..... almost immediately? what is that??!?! I would rather the council target people who throw cigarette butts on the floor, litter and spit and save council tax increasing.[/p][/quote]Just assume for one moment that first thing tomorrow no one dropped litter ever again, how long would the councils take to sack hundreds of council employees, I'm talking about the men and woman who keep our streets clean, it's a snowball effect, no litter - no road cleaners - ex road cleaners can't pay the bills - crime rate rises - more people in prison - council tax rises - anarchy on the (very clean) streets, for the love of god, let the man drop a fag butt, it keeps the rioters at bay![/p][/quote]That would be bliss however im sure the council could get the workers to sort out the pot holes everywhere! handymanchris
  • Score: 0

9:10pm Tue 26 Mar 13

jay2180 says...

I'd rather tread on a fag butt than in dog sh#t....
I'd rather tread on a fag butt than in dog sh#t.... jay2180
  • Score: 1

9:10pm Tue 26 Mar 13

Bob Downondiss says...

"But with only £90 in income support and £58 of care money a week, he fears that paying the fine will be impossible."

But he can smoke and obviously drink.

Pay up or sling your hook to jail you moron.
"But with only £90 in income support and £58 of care money a week, he fears that paying the fine will be impossible." But he can smoke and obviously drink. Pay up or sling your hook to jail you moron. Bob Downondiss
  • Score: 0

9:24pm Tue 26 Mar 13

nearly right all the time says...

the solution is simple,
take out an injuction forbibbing this
person from buying or attempting to
buy cigaretts, or tabaco, until the fine is paid.

any shop keeper supplying would be in contempt of court, and could have their
license to sell fags suspended.
the solution is simple, take out an injuction forbibbing this person from buying or attempting to buy cigaretts, or tabaco, until the fine is paid. any shop keeper supplying would be in contempt of court, and could have their license to sell fags suspended. nearly right all the time
  • Score: 0

9:33pm Tue 26 Mar 13

Smanf! says...

goldenbroomboy wrote:
This is interesting, posters have got so carried away slagging Mr Langford & cheering his financial ruin, nobody has noticed that the so called "Enforcement Officer" bears the name Ranya Smilyanova, very probably an immigrant from the EU or former Soviet Union.

What happended to all the "Out of the EU, they are taking our jobs" rants we were reading not so long ago?
AMEN!!!!

Exactly my first thought.
[quote][p][bold]goldenbroomboy[/bold] wrote: This is interesting, posters have got so carried away slagging Mr Langford & cheering his financial ruin, nobody has noticed that the so called "Enforcement Officer" bears the name Ranya Smilyanova, very probably an immigrant from the EU or former Soviet Union. What happended to all the "Out of the EU, they are taking our jobs" rants we were reading not so long ago?[/p][/quote]AMEN!!!! Exactly my first thought. Smanf!
  • Score: 0

10:09pm Tue 26 Mar 13

gottleofgear says...

These litter bullies are targetting smokers because it is easy money. Over 90% of the fines are for fag butts because it's easy. You see them outside Bromely South Station every day, just watching people waiting to pounce. They are parasites and I hope someone smacks them on the nose!!

They also lie to people and tell them that the offence was captured on CCTV, that is rubbish (no pun intended). The cameras they have is for their interaction with the person, not to film the offence. They are bullys and liars.
These litter bullies are targetting smokers because it is easy money. Over 90% of the fines are for fag butts because it's easy. You see them outside Bromely South Station every day, just watching people waiting to pounce. They are parasites and I hope someone smacks them on the nose!! They also lie to people and tell them that the offence was captured on CCTV, that is rubbish (no pun intended). The cameras they have is for their interaction with the person, not to film the offence. They are bullys and liars. gottleofgear
  • Score: 1

11:09pm Tue 26 Mar 13

banjo8 says...

gottleofgear - what are you on about? It doesn't matter whether they are smokers or not, anyone throwing down litter should be brought to book. Why should smokers be allowed to ruin the environment for everyone else? Personally I hope smokers continue to be hounded.
gottleofgear - what are you on about? It doesn't matter whether they are smokers or not, anyone throwing down litter should be brought to book. Why should smokers be allowed to ruin the environment for everyone else? Personally I hope smokers continue to be hounded. banjo8
  • Score: -1

8:01am Wed 27 Mar 13

Len Kivingstone says...

If he goes to prison he will soon learn how to pick up a fag.
If he goes to prison he will soon learn how to pick up a fag. Len Kivingstone
  • Score: 1

9:07am Wed 27 Mar 13

goldenbroomboy says...

gottleofgear wrote:
These litter bullies are targetting smokers because it is easy money. Over 90% of the fines are for fag butts because it's easy. You see them outside Bromely South Station every day, just watching people waiting to pounce. They are parasites and I hope someone smacks them on the nose!! They also lie to people and tell them that the offence was captured on CCTV, that is rubbish (no pun intended). The cameras they have is for their interaction with the person, not to film the offence. They are bullys and liars.
Correct. As I have written before, these so called "Environment Enforcement Officers" are just debt collectors in uniform, and like the non uniformed kind will use every dirty trick in the book, including lying.

If I dropped my Oyster Card on the ground, & then picked it up, I have little doubt that one of these bullies would try to pin one of their pieces of paper on me, in the hope that they would intimidate me into paying their wages. I would not, and I would frankly enjoy my day in court showing them up for what they are. I have in the past seen off a parking notice, and I would look forward to seeing off a litter notice.
[quote][p][bold]gottleofgear[/bold] wrote: These litter bullies are targetting smokers because it is easy money. Over 90% of the fines are for fag butts because it's easy. You see them outside Bromely South Station every day, just watching people waiting to pounce. They are parasites and I hope someone smacks them on the nose!! They also lie to people and tell them that the offence was captured on CCTV, that is rubbish (no pun intended). The cameras they have is for their interaction with the person, not to film the offence. They are bullys and liars.[/p][/quote]Correct. As I have written before, these so called "Environment Enforcement Officers" are just debt collectors in uniform, and like the non uniformed kind will use every dirty trick in the book, including lying. If I dropped my Oyster Card on the ground, & then picked it up, I have little doubt that one of these bullies would try to pin one of their pieces of paper on me, in the hope that they would intimidate me into paying their wages. I would not, and I would frankly enjoy my day in court showing them up for what they are. I have in the past seen off a parking notice, and I would look forward to seeing off a litter notice. goldenbroomboy
  • Score: 1

9:45am Wed 27 Mar 13

gottleofgear says...

banjo8 wrote:
gottleofgear - what are you on about? It doesn't matter whether they are smokers or not, anyone throwing down litter should be brought to book. Why should smokers be allowed to ruin the environment for everyone else? Personally I hope smokers continue to be hounded.
You obviously haven't stood and watched them like I have. They are like a couple of lions watching and waiting, then pouncing.

We all hate litter, but stubbing a cigarette out under your shoe is something that people have always done, rightly or wrongly. Of course, it is littering, but when over 90% of these fines, by the council's own admission is for cigarette butts, doesn't it tell you that they are just going for the easy targets, while the town centres are strewn with rubbish. Where are they when all the take-away boxes, cans and bottles etc are being thrown around? I'll tell you, hiding, waiting for someone to put their fag out. They are an absolute disgrace!!
[quote][p][bold]banjo8[/bold] wrote: gottleofgear - what are you on about? It doesn't matter whether they are smokers or not, anyone throwing down litter should be brought to book. Why should smokers be allowed to ruin the environment for everyone else? Personally I hope smokers continue to be hounded.[/p][/quote]You obviously haven't stood and watched them like I have. They are like a couple of lions watching and waiting, then pouncing. We all hate litter, but stubbing a cigarette out under your shoe is something that people have always done, rightly or wrongly. Of course, it is littering, but when over 90% of these fines, by the council's own admission is for cigarette butts, doesn't it tell you that they are just going for the easy targets, while the town centres are strewn with rubbish. Where are they when all the take-away boxes, cans and bottles etc are being thrown around? I'll tell you, hiding, waiting for someone to put their fag out. They are an absolute disgrace!! gottleofgear
  • Score: 1

10:08am Wed 27 Mar 13

highway warrior says...

He dropped a fag end, got caught so he picked it up then says he should be innocent. He only picked it up because he got caught. Pay the fine. Caught fair and square.
He dropped a fag end, got caught so he picked it up then says he should be innocent. He only picked it up because he got caught. Pay the fine. Caught fair and square. highway warrior
  • Score: 0

10:14am Wed 27 Mar 13

madras says...

Caught fair and square maybe, but is this really proportionate to the crime - fixed penalty of £10 or £20 maybe
Caught fair and square maybe, but is this really proportionate to the crime - fixed penalty of £10 or £20 maybe madras
  • Score: 1

10:24am Wed 27 Mar 13

banjo8 says...

I can see that bending down might be difficult for him, but he'll learn! There is no excuse. You throw fag ends on the floor, you should get done. Look at the picture - there should probably be a hefty fine for that jumper.
I can see that bending down might be difficult for him, but he'll learn! There is no excuse. You throw fag ends on the floor, you should get done. Look at the picture - there should probably be a hefty fine for that jumper. banjo8
  • Score: 0

10:31am Wed 27 Mar 13

Gypo.Joe says...

'ave a look at him will ya. The pride of English man hood ladies. How could any woman resist. Get ya draws orf.
'ave a look at him will ya. The pride of English man hood ladies. How could any woman resist. Get ya draws orf. Gypo.Joe
  • Score: 0

10:52am Wed 27 Mar 13

ksc says...

handymanchris wrote:
ksc wrote:
handymanchris wrote:
mcreedy wrote:
I see plenty of people spitting on the street - these people should be issued fines. Spreading diseases as well as it being totally and utterly disgusting and unnecessary.

Smokers are discriminated against enough already. If there were sufficient bins where fags could be extinguished then I am sure this would stop people stubbing them out in the street.

The fact the enforcement officer couldnt find the butt will hopefully go in this mans favour.
Just another image of society.

Not accepting liability for his own actions.

The offence was completed soon as he threw it on the floor, regardless of picking it back up..... almost immediately? what is that??!?!

I would rather the council target people who throw cigarette butts on the floor, litter and spit and save council tax increasing.
Just assume for one moment that first thing tomorrow no one dropped litter ever again, how long would the councils take to sack hundreds of council employees, I'm talking about the men and woman who keep our streets clean, it's a snowball effect, no litter - no road cleaners - ex road cleaners can't pay the bills - crime rate rises - more people in prison - council tax rises - anarchy on the (very clean) streets, for the love of god, let the man drop a fag butt, it keeps the rioters at bay!
That would be bliss however im sure the council could get the workers to sort out the pot holes everywhere!
I'm sure the council could and seeing that going from a cleaner to a pot hole repairer would take huge amounts of training, pot hole repair technology, health and safety regulations, 24/7 medical assistance to monitor the changes to the muscular system of the arm (broom to shovel) etc, the council would have to put up the council tax, oh no! I can't afford to live any more...please let him drop a dog end.
[quote][p][bold]handymanchris[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ksc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]handymanchris[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mcreedy[/bold] wrote: I see plenty of people spitting on the street - these people should be issued fines. Spreading diseases as well as it being totally and utterly disgusting and unnecessary. Smokers are discriminated against enough already. If there were sufficient bins where fags could be extinguished then I am sure this would stop people stubbing them out in the street. The fact the enforcement officer couldnt find the butt will hopefully go in this mans favour.[/p][/quote]Just another image of society. Not accepting liability for his own actions. The offence was completed soon as he threw it on the floor, regardless of picking it back up..... almost immediately? what is that??!?! I would rather the council target people who throw cigarette butts on the floor, litter and spit and save council tax increasing.[/p][/quote]Just assume for one moment that first thing tomorrow no one dropped litter ever again, how long would the councils take to sack hundreds of council employees, I'm talking about the men and woman who keep our streets clean, it's a snowball effect, no litter - no road cleaners - ex road cleaners can't pay the bills - crime rate rises - more people in prison - council tax rises - anarchy on the (very clean) streets, for the love of god, let the man drop a fag butt, it keeps the rioters at bay![/p][/quote]That would be bliss however im sure the council could get the workers to sort out the pot holes everywhere![/p][/quote]I'm sure the council could and seeing that going from a cleaner to a pot hole repairer would take huge amounts of training, pot hole repair technology, health and safety regulations, 24/7 medical assistance to monitor the changes to the muscular system of the arm (broom to shovel) etc, the council would have to put up the council tax, oh no! I can't afford to live any more...please let him drop a dog end. ksc
  • Score: 1

12:40pm Wed 27 Mar 13

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head says...

banjo8 wrote:
He tried to play the system and lost - simple as. It's a filthy habit and he has no right to inflict it upon the rest of us.
If he doesn't want to pay the fine and would rather spend time in prison then let him. Locking him up would probably be doing his wife a favour anyway.
Yes littering is a filthy habit, oh wait you meant smoking, unfortunately, for you, he does have the right to do that and your bias opinion against smokers highlights that your opinion is of no consequence at all with regards to this debate.
[quote][p][bold]banjo8[/bold] wrote: He tried to play the system and lost - simple as. It's a filthy habit and he has no right to inflict it upon the rest of us. If he doesn't want to pay the fine and would rather spend time in prison then let him. Locking him up would probably be doing his wife a favour anyway.[/p][/quote]Yes littering is a filthy habit, oh wait you meant smoking, unfortunately, for you, he does have the right to do that and your bias opinion against smokers highlights that your opinion is of no consequence at all with regards to this debate. the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
  • Score: 1

12:46pm Wed 27 Mar 13

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head says...

The problem here is that the council used to pay people to clean the streets, now they hire jumped up plastic policemen/women to inflict their over inflated sense of authority on the general public (which no doubt helps them feel better inside about their insecurities).

How does taking £90 (half of which goes to a private company) from people on the high street help local businesses and improve the high streets which are dying?

If someone litters punish them by giving them a days worth of cleaning the street. But of course no profit for the private company, no cash for the council and no people of absolutely no importance whatsoever being pointlessly empowered above the general public. Can't have that now can we?
The problem here is that the council used to pay people to clean the streets, now they hire jumped up plastic policemen/women to inflict their over inflated sense of authority on the general public (which no doubt helps them feel better inside about their insecurities). How does taking £90 (half of which goes to a private company) from people on the high street help local businesses and improve the high streets which are dying? If someone litters punish them by giving them a days worth of cleaning the street. But of course no profit for the private company, no cash for the council and no people of absolutely no importance whatsoever being pointlessly empowered above the general public. Can't have that now can we? the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
  • Score: 0

1:14pm Wed 27 Mar 13

banjo8 says...

We're all biased oh dippy one. the fact that someone has an opinion means they're biased. Anyway, it's not opinion in this case, it's fact - smoking is a filthy habit. Yes, it's legal and people have a right to do it, but it's still a filthy habit. I can only guess at your various habits....
We're all biased oh dippy one. the fact that someone has an opinion means they're biased. Anyway, it's not opinion in this case, it's fact - smoking is a filthy habit. Yes, it's legal and people have a right to do it, but it's still a filthy habit. I can only guess at your various habits.... banjo8
  • Score: -1

1:32pm Wed 27 Mar 13

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head says...

banjo8 wrote:
We're all biased oh dippy one. the fact that someone has an opinion means they're biased. Anyway, it's not opinion in this case, it's fact - smoking is a filthy habit. Yes, it's legal and people have a right to do it, but it's still a filthy habit. I can only guess at your various habits....
We may all be biased in some respect but not to the extreme you demonstrate against smoking. Suggesting I have "various habits" because I don't agree with your rantings highlights my previous point perfectly.
[quote][p][bold]banjo8[/bold] wrote: We're all biased oh dippy one. the fact that someone has an opinion means they're biased. Anyway, it's not opinion in this case, it's fact - smoking is a filthy habit. Yes, it's legal and people have a right to do it, but it's still a filthy habit. I can only guess at your various habits....[/p][/quote]We may all be biased in some respect but not to the extreme you demonstrate against smoking. Suggesting I have "various [unpleasant] habits" because I don't agree with your rantings highlights my previous point perfectly. the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
  • Score: 1

1:37pm Wed 27 Mar 13

banjo8 says...

I think you may have issues with authority. Strong father figure? Bit wary of people in uniforms? At least you now accept it's a filthy habit.
I think you may have issues with authority. Strong father figure? Bit wary of people in uniforms? At least you now accept it's a filthy habit. banjo8
  • Score: -1

2:00pm Wed 27 Mar 13

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head says...

banjo8 wrote:
I think you may have issues with authority. Strong father figure? Bit wary of people in uniforms? At least you now accept it's a filthy habit.
Outside the Post Office maybe a filthy habit (but not a fact as you said), a group in a cigar club socialising perhaps not any more filthy than a group at the pub having a drink, both are drugs, both have health and social consequences just the general public won't turn on drinkers like they do smokers because most of us are in one form or another a drinker.

With regards to authority it's the council wanting money, the private company wanting money and so hiring normal people waiting for the change to be in authority to pick on normal people going about their daily business that I have issue with.

People with actual authority doing something useful is a very different thing.
[quote][p][bold]banjo8[/bold] wrote: I think you may have issues with authority. Strong father figure? Bit wary of people in uniforms? At least you now accept it's a filthy habit.[/p][/quote]Outside the Post Office maybe a filthy habit (but not a fact as you said), a group in a cigar club socialising perhaps not any more filthy than a group at the pub having a drink, both are drugs, both have health and social consequences just the general public won't turn on drinkers like they do smokers because most of us are in one form or another a drinker. With regards to authority it's the council wanting money, the private company wanting money and so hiring normal people waiting for the change to be in authority to pick on normal people going about their daily business that I have issue with. People with actual authority doing something useful is a very different thing. the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
  • Score: 1

3:28pm Wed 27 Mar 13

the wall says...

I've got filthy habits - Every time I dress up as a Nun, I sh1t myself.
I've got filthy habits - Every time I dress up as a Nun, I sh1t myself. the wall
  • Score: 0

7:30pm Wed 27 Mar 13

pamela8 says...

Oh for Goodness sake,s let him off..he has enough on his plate to deal with as it is...And NO I don,t know him...If they are not going to let him off then he can set up a payment plan and pay it off at £1.00,yes that,s right one pound per month...Its outrageous.,that he was fined so much in the first place..what about the filthy pigs that Gob in the street...Do they get fined??? doubt it...Fine them..Because that causes TB....And also these sneaky on the spot fine folk need to put up great big signs where people can see them at least to give people a warning if they happen to be smoking..Oh And by the way I don,t smoke either.....
Oh for Goodness sake,s let him off..he has enough on his plate to deal with as it is...And NO I don,t know him...If they are not going to let him off then he can set up a payment plan and pay it off at £1.00,yes that,s right one pound per month...Its outrageous.,that he was fined so much in the first place..what about the filthy pigs that Gob in the street...Do they get fined??? doubt it...Fine them..Because that causes TB....And also these sneaky on the spot fine folk need to put up great big signs where people can see them at least to give people a warning if they happen to be smoking..Oh And by the way I don,t smoke either..... pamela8
  • Score: 1

7:39pm Wed 27 Mar 13

Gypo.Joe says...

pamela8 wrote:
Oh for Goodness sake,s let him off..he has enough on his plate to deal with as it is...And NO I don,t know him...If they are not going to let him off then he can set up a payment plan and pay it off at £1.00,yes that,s right one pound per month...Its outrageous.,that he was fined so much in the first place..what about the filthy pigs that Gob in the street...Do they get fined??? doubt it...Fine them..Because that causes TB....And also these sneaky on the spot fine folk need to put up great big signs where people can see them at least to give people a warning if they happen to be smoking..Oh And by the way I don,t smoke either.....
As you feel so strong madam why don't you pay the fine for goodness sake.
[quote][p][bold]pamela8[/bold] wrote: Oh for Goodness sake,s let him off..he has enough on his plate to deal with as it is...And NO I don,t know him...If they are not going to let him off then he can set up a payment plan and pay it off at £1.00,yes that,s right one pound per month...Its outrageous.,that he was fined so much in the first place..what about the filthy pigs that Gob in the street...Do they get fined??? doubt it...Fine them..Because that causes TB....And also these sneaky on the spot fine folk need to put up great big signs where people can see them at least to give people a warning if they happen to be smoking..Oh And by the way I don,t smoke either.....[/p][/quote]As you feel so strong madam why don't you pay the fine for goodness sake. Gypo.Joe
  • Score: -1

8:24pm Wed 27 Mar 13

gottleofgear says...

I agree, I see loads of yobs standing at bus stops, continually spitting onto the pavement, they are the dirty bastards who should be fined.
I agree, I see loads of yobs standing at bus stops, continually spitting onto the pavement, they are the dirty bastards who should be fined. gottleofgear
  • Score: 1

9:02pm Wed 27 Mar 13

Soft Alan says...

I'm going to request newsshopper run an article on the trials and tribulations of gypo joe. Posts never cease to amuse and would provide a much more informative approach to current affairs than the 'caught with your smacks down fag ash lil' story above
I'm going to request newsshopper run an article on the trials and tribulations of gypo joe. Posts never cease to amuse and would provide a much more informative approach to current affairs than the 'caught with your smacks down fag ash lil' story above Soft Alan
  • Score: 1

9:25pm Wed 27 Mar 13

Gypo.Joe says...

The trials and tribulations of Gypo Joe I'm afraid would not be suitable for a family newspaper ( The News of the World in days past maybe ). An X rated fillum more like, even then would have a viewer discretionary notice.
The trials and tribulations of Gypo Joe I'm afraid would not be suitable for a family newspaper ( The News of the World in days past maybe ). An X rated fillum more like, even then would have a viewer discretionary notice. Gypo.Joe
  • Score: 0

11:30pm Wed 27 Mar 13

bexleybee says...

I don't condone this offence but I can't believe that anyone is so naive as to give their name and address to these enforcement officers. They are stuffed if they don't have this information.
I don't condone this offence but I can't believe that anyone is so naive as to give their name and address to these enforcement officers. They are stuffed if they don't have this information. bexleybee
  • Score: 1

7:57am Thu 28 Mar 13

banjo8 says...

Filthy, disgusting behaviour and he deserves everything he gets.
However, bexleybee raises an interesting point - exactly what powers do these enforcement officers have? Do they have the right to demand any information from you? Do they have the power to stop you in the street? Are they allowed to hold onto you? If not, what's to stop you simply walking away?
And, do they take photographs of you to use as evidence?
Filthy, disgusting behaviour and he deserves everything he gets. However, bexleybee raises an interesting point - exactly what powers do these enforcement officers have? Do they have the right to demand any information from you? Do they have the power to stop you in the street? Are they allowed to hold onto you? If not, what's to stop you simply walking away? And, do they take photographs of you to use as evidence? banjo8
  • Score: 0

8:20am Thu 28 Mar 13

Petra69 says...

gottleofgear wrote:
These litter bullies are targetting smokers because it is easy money. Over 90% of the fines are for fag butts because it's easy. You see them outside Bromely South Station every day, just watching people waiting to pounce. They are parasites and I hope someone smacks them on the nose!!

They also lie to people and tell them that the offence was captured on CCTV, that is rubbish (no pun intended). The cameras they have is for their interaction with the person, not to film the offence. They are bullys and liars.
You are a Liar. They are not litter bullies. They are paid employees doing a legitimate job and dealing with a big problem caused by anti social scum. You ounce as if you might be in that category
[quote][p][bold]gottleofgear[/bold] wrote: These litter bullies are targetting smokers because it is easy money. Over 90% of the fines are for fag butts because it's easy. You see them outside Bromely South Station every day, just watching people waiting to pounce. They are parasites and I hope someone smacks them on the nose!! They also lie to people and tell them that the offence was captured on CCTV, that is rubbish (no pun intended). The cameras they have is for their interaction with the person, not to film the offence. They are bullys and liars.[/p][/quote]You are a Liar. They are not litter bullies. They are paid employees doing a legitimate job and dealing with a big problem caused by anti social scum. You ounce as if you might be in that category Petra69
  • Score: -1

8:26am Thu 28 Mar 13

Petra69 says...

the_lunatic_is_in_my
_head
wrote:
banjo8 wrote:
He tried to play the system and lost - simple as. It's a filthy habit and he has no right to inflict it upon the rest of us.
If he doesn't want to pay the fine and would rather spend time in prison then let him. Locking him up would probably be doing his wife a favour anyway.
Yes littering is a filthy habit, oh wait you meant smoking, unfortunately, for you, he does have the right to do that and your bias opinion against smokers highlights that your opinion is of no consequence at all with regards to this debate.
Prat. Yes smoking is a filthy habit. Fact. To imply its not shows what an idiot you are. The fact that its lawful doe not distract from the fact it's filthy and anti social.
[quote][p][bold]the_lunatic_is_in_my _head[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]banjo8[/bold] wrote: He tried to play the system and lost - simple as. It's a filthy habit and he has no right to inflict it upon the rest of us. If he doesn't want to pay the fine and would rather spend time in prison then let him. Locking him up would probably be doing his wife a favour anyway.[/p][/quote]Yes littering is a filthy habit, oh wait you meant smoking, unfortunately, for you, he does have the right to do that and your bias opinion against smokers highlights that your opinion is of no consequence at all with regards to this debate.[/p][/quote]Prat. Yes smoking is a filthy habit. Fact. To imply its not shows what an idiot you are. The fact that its lawful doe not distract from the fact it's filthy and anti social. Petra69
  • Score: -1

8:29am Thu 28 Mar 13

Petra69 says...

pamela8 wrote:
Oh for Goodness sake,s let him off..he has enough on his plate to deal with as it is...And NO I don,t know him...If they are not going to let him off then he can set up a payment plan and pay it off at £1.00,yes that,s right one pound per month...Its outrageous.,that he was fined so much in the first place..what about the filthy pigs that Gob in the street...Do they get fined??? doubt it...Fine them..Because that causes TB....And also these sneaky on the spot fine folk need to put up great big signs where people can see them at least to give people a warning if they happen to be smoking..Oh And by the way I don,t smoke either.....
He was not fined so much in the first place. He was issued with an FPN which he could have paid for £50. He didn't. Letting him off why. Because he is a think, antisocial liar. Think not
[quote][p][bold]pamela8[/bold] wrote: Oh for Goodness sake,s let him off..he has enough on his plate to deal with as it is...And NO I don,t know him...If they are not going to let him off then he can set up a payment plan and pay it off at £1.00,yes that,s right one pound per month...Its outrageous.,that he was fined so much in the first place..what about the filthy pigs that Gob in the street...Do they get fined??? doubt it...Fine them..Because that causes TB....And also these sneaky on the spot fine folk need to put up great big signs where people can see them at least to give people a warning if they happen to be smoking..Oh And by the way I don,t smoke either.....[/p][/quote]He was not fined so much in the first place. He was issued with an FPN which he could have paid for £50. He didn't. Letting him off why. Because he is a think, antisocial liar. Think not Petra69
  • Score: -1

8:30am Thu 28 Mar 13

Petra69 says...

bexleybee wrote:
I don't condone this offence but I can't believe that anyone is so naive as to give their name and address to these enforcement officers. They are stuffed if they don't have this information.
And will be arrested if they dont
[quote][p][bold]bexleybee[/bold] wrote: I don't condone this offence but I can't believe that anyone is so naive as to give their name and address to these enforcement officers. They are stuffed if they don't have this information.[/p][/quote]And will be arrested if they dont Petra69
  • Score: 0

8:36am Thu 28 Mar 13

Petra69 says...

banjo8 wrote:
Filthy, disgusting behaviour and he deserves everything he gets.
However, bexleybee raises an interesting point - exactly what powers do these enforcement officers have? Do they have the right to demand any information from you? Do they have the power to stop you in the street? Are they allowed to hold onto you? If not, what's to stop you simply walking away?
And, do they take photographs of you to use as evidence?
This might help you. http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Community_S
afety_Accreditation_
Scheme

Failure to give correct name nd address makes you liable to arrest.
[quote][p][bold]banjo8[/bold] wrote: Filthy, disgusting behaviour and he deserves everything he gets. However, bexleybee raises an interesting point - exactly what powers do these enforcement officers have? Do they have the right to demand any information from you? Do they have the power to stop you in the street? Are they allowed to hold onto you? If not, what's to stop you simply walking away? And, do they take photographs of you to use as evidence?[/p][/quote]This might help you. http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Community_S afety_Accreditation_ Scheme Failure to give correct name nd address makes you liable to arrest. Petra69
  • Score: 0

8:43am Thu 28 Mar 13

PaulErith says...

Petra69 wrote:
the_lunatic_is_in_my _head wrote:
banjo8 wrote: He tried to play the system and lost - simple as. It's a filthy habit and he has no right to inflict it upon the rest of us. If he doesn't want to pay the fine and would rather spend time in prison then let him. Locking him up would probably be doing his wife a favour anyway.
Yes littering is a filthy habit, oh wait you meant smoking, unfortunately, for you, he does have the right to do that and your bias opinion against smokers highlights that your opinion is of no consequence at all with regards to this debate.
Prat. Yes smoking is a filthy habit. Fact. To imply its not shows what an idiot you are. The fact that its lawful doe not distract from the fact it's filthy and anti social.
Now that smoking is banned from pubs, etc, I don't agree that it's anti social. It does not affect others through passive smoking as it used to. Drinking is far more anti social. How many fights and violent incidents are caused by excessive drinking?
[quote][p][bold]Petra69[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]the_lunatic_is_in_my _head[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]banjo8[/bold] wrote: He tried to play the system and lost - simple as. It's a filthy habit and he has no right to inflict it upon the rest of us. If he doesn't want to pay the fine and would rather spend time in prison then let him. Locking him up would probably be doing his wife a favour anyway.[/p][/quote]Yes littering is a filthy habit, oh wait you meant smoking, unfortunately, for you, he does have the right to do that and your bias opinion against smokers highlights that your opinion is of no consequence at all with regards to this debate.[/p][/quote]Prat. Yes smoking is a filthy habit. Fact. To imply its not shows what an idiot you are. The fact that its lawful doe not distract from the fact it's filthy and anti social.[/p][/quote]Now that smoking is banned from pubs, etc, I don't agree that it's anti social. It does not affect others through passive smoking as it used to. Drinking is far more anti social. How many fights and violent incidents are caused by excessive drinking? PaulErith
  • Score: 1

9:18am Thu 28 Mar 13

banjo8 says...

You're right, drinking can be anti-social. But, there's a bit difference, drinking is not a filthy habit. Smoking does not need to be a filthy habit and if the smoker in question does not inflict their smoke, ash or fag butt on anyone else, or the environment in general, then it's fine.
The point is that people have to be responsible for their own behaviour. If someone smokes they must be responsible and if someone drinks they must be responsible. The point at which their actions start impacting upon others they become anti-social. A smoker who throws down a fag butt is being anti-social.
You're right, drinking can be anti-social. But, there's a bit difference, drinking is not a filthy habit. Smoking does not need to be a filthy habit and if the smoker in question does not inflict their smoke, ash or fag butt on anyone else, or the environment in general, then it's fine. The point is that people have to be responsible for their own behaviour. If someone smokes they must be responsible and if someone drinks they must be responsible. The point at which their actions start impacting upon others they become anti-social. A smoker who throws down a fag butt is being anti-social. banjo8
  • Score: 0

10:09am Thu 28 Mar 13

Gypo.Joe says...

"The point is that people have to be responsible for their own behaviour."


If only Banjo, if only !!
"The point is that people have to be responsible for their own behaviour." If only Banjo, if only !! Gypo.Joe
  • Score: 0

10:58am Thu 28 Mar 13

Big_Ben says...

Fat ****
Fat **** Big_Ben
  • Score: 0

12:29pm Thu 28 Mar 13

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head says...

banjo8 wrote:
You're right, drinking can be anti-social. But, there's a bit difference, drinking is not a filthy habit. Smoking does not need to be a filthy habit and if the smoker in question does not inflict their smoke, ash or fag butt on anyone else, or the environment in general, then it's fine.
The point is that people have to be responsible for their own behaviour. If someone smokes they must be responsible and if someone drinks they must be responsible. The point at which their actions start impacting upon others they become anti-social. A smoker who throws down a fag butt is being anti-social.
So what they smoke in a plastic bubble and stay there until all the smoke is in their lungs? The guy was outside and the thousands upon thousands of cars clogging up Bromley's roads will do far more harm to your lungs than someone smoking outside will ever do.

You are very well protected from smoking as you can only do it outside.

As for drinking not being a filthy habit, it depends on your definition of filthy but it most certainly ruins more lives than smoking, OK smoking directly kills but drinking can have very devastating affects on people and their family's.

Yes a smoker who throws a butt is being anti-social but the issue isn't smoking, it's littering of all kinds which is anti-social.

Smoking itself isn't any more or less anti-social than drinking or taking any other drugs.

Either society takes drugs or we don't but suggesting someone's loved one would be better off for their spouse to go to prison because they smoke, as you did in your first comment, is ludicrous.
[quote][p][bold]banjo8[/bold] wrote: You're right, drinking can be anti-social. But, there's a bit difference, drinking is not a filthy habit. Smoking does not need to be a filthy habit and if the smoker in question does not inflict their smoke, ash or fag butt on anyone else, or the environment in general, then it's fine. The point is that people have to be responsible for their own behaviour. If someone smokes they must be responsible and if someone drinks they must be responsible. The point at which their actions start impacting upon others they become anti-social. A smoker who throws down a fag butt is being anti-social.[/p][/quote]So what they smoke in a plastic bubble and stay there until all the smoke is in their lungs? The guy was outside and the thousands upon thousands of cars clogging up Bromley's roads will do far more harm to your lungs than someone smoking outside will ever do. You are very well protected from smoking as you can only do it outside. As for drinking not being a filthy habit, it depends on your definition of filthy but it most certainly ruins more lives than smoking, OK smoking directly kills but drinking can have very devastating affects on people and their family's. Yes a smoker who throws a butt is being anti-social but the issue isn't smoking, it's littering of all kinds which is anti-social. Smoking itself isn't any more or less anti-social than drinking or taking any other drugs. Either society takes drugs or we don't but suggesting someone's loved one would be better off for their spouse to go to prison because they smoke, as you did in your first comment, is ludicrous. the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
  • Score: 1

12:30pm Thu 28 Mar 13

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head says...

Petra69 wrote:
the_lunatic_is_in_my

_head
wrote:
banjo8 wrote:
He tried to play the system and lost - simple as. It's a filthy habit and he has no right to inflict it upon the rest of us.
If he doesn't want to pay the fine and would rather spend time in prison then let him. Locking him up would probably be doing his wife a favour anyway.
Yes littering is a filthy habit, oh wait you meant smoking, unfortunately, for you, he does have the right to do that and your bias opinion against smokers highlights that your opinion is of no consequence at all with regards to this debate.
Prat. Yes smoking is a filthy habit. Fact. To imply its not shows what an idiot you are. The fact that its lawful doe not distract from the fact it's filthy and anti social.
As anti-social as calling someone you disagree with an idiot and a prat eh?
[quote][p][bold]Petra69[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]the_lunatic_is_in_my _head[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]banjo8[/bold] wrote: He tried to play the system and lost - simple as. It's a filthy habit and he has no right to inflict it upon the rest of us. If he doesn't want to pay the fine and would rather spend time in prison then let him. Locking him up would probably be doing his wife a favour anyway.[/p][/quote]Yes littering is a filthy habit, oh wait you meant smoking, unfortunately, for you, he does have the right to do that and your bias opinion against smokers highlights that your opinion is of no consequence at all with regards to this debate.[/p][/quote]Prat. Yes smoking is a filthy habit. Fact. To imply its not shows what an idiot you are. The fact that its lawful doe not distract from the fact it's filthy and anti social.[/p][/quote]As anti-social as calling someone you disagree with an idiot and a prat eh? the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
  • Score: 1

12:59pm Thu 28 Mar 13

SouthEastThreeSixNine says...

Everyone knows that dropping cigarettes is an offence. If you don’t want to run the risk then don’t commit the offence. No one is perfect and we've all committed offences – minor or serious. Some get punished, some go unpunished but when you do get caught, don’t moan about it, you knew what you was doing and have to take the concequences. I have no sympathy for him regarding this matter.
Everyone knows that dropping cigarettes is an offence. If you don’t want to run the risk then don’t commit the offence. No one is perfect and we've all committed offences – minor or serious. Some get punished, some go unpunished but when you do get caught, don’t moan about it, you knew what you was doing and have to take the concequences. I have no sympathy for him regarding this matter. SouthEastThreeSixNine
  • Score: 1

1:11pm Thu 28 Mar 13

Virtual-Monster says...

bexleybee wrote:
I don't condone this offence but I can't believe that anyone is so naive as to give their name and address to these enforcement officers. They are stuffed if they don't have this information.
If you fail to give an 'Authorised Officer' your details you are committing a criminal offence.

An enforcement officer does not have the power to detain or arrest you nor can they require you to provide them with proof of who you are, but they are acting legally on behalf of the authorised body (the Council or their contractor) within the constraints of established legislation.

An idiots guide to FPNs published by DEFRA, can be downloaded here: http://archive.defra
.gov.uk/environment/
quality/local/legisl
ation/cnea/documents
/fixedpenaltynotices
.pdf

The last thing a member of the public should want to risk is not only being prosecuted for the initial littering offence but also possible arrest and certain prosecution for failing to provide details. Two Criminal charges is NOT better than one!
[quote][p][bold]bexleybee[/bold] wrote: I don't condone this offence but I can't believe that anyone is so naive as to give their name and address to these enforcement officers. They are stuffed if they don't have this information.[/p][/quote]If you fail to give an 'Authorised Officer' your details you are committing a criminal offence. An enforcement officer does not have the power to detain or arrest you nor can they require you to provide them with proof of who you are, but they are acting legally on behalf of the authorised body (the Council or their contractor) within the constraints of established legislation. An idiots guide to FPNs published by DEFRA, can be downloaded here: http://archive.defra .gov.uk/environment/ quality/local/legisl ation/cnea/documents /fixedpenaltynotices .pdf The last thing a member of the public should want to risk is not only being prosecuted for the initial littering offence but also possible arrest and certain prosecution for failing to provide details. Two Criminal charges is NOT better than one! Virtual-Monster
  • Score: 1

2:11pm Thu 28 Mar 13

reasonable75 says...

Petra69 wrote:
the_lunatic_is_in_my

_head
wrote:
banjo8 wrote:
He tried to play the system and lost - simple as. It's a filthy habit and he has no right to inflict it upon the rest of us.
If he doesn't want to pay the fine and would rather spend time in prison then let him. Locking him up would probably be doing his wife a favour anyway.
Yes littering is a filthy habit, oh wait you meant smoking, unfortunately, for you, he does have the right to do that and your bias opinion against smokers highlights that your opinion is of no consequence at all with regards to this debate.
Prat. Yes smoking is a filthy habit. Fact. To imply its not shows what an idiot you are. The fact that its lawful doe not distract from the fact it's filthy and anti social.
In your opinion it's a filthy habit

So are many things, having bad breath, BO, passing wind. Maybe even crap clothes

Would you have anyone guilty of these fined?

It is dropping litter that is the crime
[quote][p][bold]Petra69[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]the_lunatic_is_in_my _head[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]banjo8[/bold] wrote: He tried to play the system and lost - simple as. It's a filthy habit and he has no right to inflict it upon the rest of us. If he doesn't want to pay the fine and would rather spend time in prison then let him. Locking him up would probably be doing his wife a favour anyway.[/p][/quote]Yes littering is a filthy habit, oh wait you meant smoking, unfortunately, for you, he does have the right to do that and your bias opinion against smokers highlights that your opinion is of no consequence at all with regards to this debate.[/p][/quote]Prat. Yes smoking is a filthy habit. Fact. To imply its not shows what an idiot you are. The fact that its lawful doe not distract from the fact it's filthy and anti social.[/p][/quote]In your opinion it's a filthy habit So are many things, having bad breath, BO, passing wind. Maybe even crap clothes Would you have anyone guilty of these fined? It is dropping litter that is the crime reasonable75
  • Score: 1

4:23pm Thu 28 Mar 13

R_U_Serious says...

Well that all went better than expected...
Well that all went better than expected... R_U_Serious
  • Score: 0

4:40pm Thu 28 Mar 13

banjo8 says...

I'm not arguing about that. You're right, the crime is littering. The filthy habit is smoking. The jumper this guy is wearing is horrendous, but I'm not saying he should be fined for it. For all I know he's also got an offensive looking wife, but that's not a crime either. Come on, be serious. It's a criminal act he's committed and he should be man enough to admit it.
I'm not arguing about that. You're right, the crime is littering. The filthy habit is smoking. The jumper this guy is wearing is horrendous, but I'm not saying he should be fined for it. For all I know he's also got an offensive looking wife, but that's not a crime either. Come on, be serious. It's a criminal act he's committed and he should be man enough to admit it. banjo8
  • Score: 0

7:17pm Thu 28 Mar 13

Very-Honest says...

Anyone and everyone knows its an offence to litter our public pathways/highways.

People that litter our roads/paths are anti-social as they could not careless. I don't throw my fag ends in the street/road as its against the law, not do I discard my litter in the streets as it's against the law. I also clean up the dog mess if I take my parents do out for a walk.

Every week I see fags tossed out of cars, one landed on mine. A friend had his window open and one landed in his car and burn mark on his seat.

I'm fed up with empty laws, laws need to be enforced.

Even if people pick up their rubbish, trust me, do you think they would pick it up if not caught?

This bloke, pay the fine and costs or go to prison, simple as that.

Don't break the law if you can't handle the consequences.
Anyone and everyone knows its an offence to litter our public pathways/highways. People that litter our roads/paths are anti-social as they could not careless. I don't throw my fag ends in the street/road as its against the law, not do I discard my litter in the streets as it's against the law. I also clean up the dog mess if I take my parents do out for a walk. Every week I see fags tossed out of cars, one landed on mine. A friend had his window open and one landed in his car and burn mark on his seat. I'm fed up with empty laws, laws need to be enforced. Even if people pick up their rubbish, trust me, do you think they would pick it up if not caught? This bloke, pay the fine and costs or go to prison, simple as that. Don't break the law if you can't handle the consequences. Very-Honest
  • Score: 1

11:48pm Fri 29 Mar 13

mainman says...

what about all the elastic bands the postmen drop
what about all the elastic bands the postmen drop mainman
  • Score: 1

3:32pm Sat 30 Mar 13

Marty1979 says...

I see the litter warden company has gone broke

http://www.newsshopp
er.co.uk/news/103244
13.Bromley_s_litter_
warden_company_XFor_
Local_Authority_Supp
ort_in_administratio
n/
I see the litter warden company has gone broke http://www.newsshopp er.co.uk/news/103244 13.Bromley_s_litter_ warden_company_XFor_ Local_Authority_Supp ort_in_administratio n/ Marty1979
  • Score: 0

12:44am Mon 1 Apr 13

Tiabrowning says...

Good. Has this chap learned the lesson that society wants to teach him? I hope so. Don't litter, period.

Perhaps the council would now like to act on actively anti social behaviour - the youths that throw things from the top of stores along Orpington High St need to be stopped. The police are powerless as the council will not take measures to force stores to secure roof access.

I've seen several shoppers get hurt by projectiles in the last few months. Litter is one thing but this surely takes a much higher priority?
Good. Has this chap learned the lesson that society wants to teach him? I hope so. Don't litter, period. Perhaps the council would now like to act on actively anti social behaviour - the youths that throw things from the top of stores along Orpington High St need to be stopped. The police are powerless as the council will not take measures to force stores to secure roof access. I've seen several shoppers get hurt by projectiles in the last few months. Litter is one thing but this surely takes a much higher priority? Tiabrowning
  • Score: 1

10:12am Mon 1 Apr 13

ksc says...

Tiabrowning wrote:
Good. Has this chap learned the lesson that society wants to teach him? I hope so. Don't litter, period.

Perhaps the council would now like to act on actively anti social behaviour - the youths that throw things from the top of stores along Orpington High St need to be stopped. The police are powerless as the council will not take measures to force stores to secure roof access.

I've seen several shoppers get hurt by projectiles in the last few months. Litter is one thing but this surely takes a much higher priority?
Try this...put your left hand on your heart, raise your right hand and say these words, I swear that I have never in my lifetime knowingly dropped litter and walked on in the hope that no one has noticed... yea, I thought not.
[quote][p][bold]Tiabrowning[/bold] wrote: Good. Has this chap learned the lesson that society wants to teach him? I hope so. Don't litter, period. Perhaps the council would now like to act on actively anti social behaviour - the youths that throw things from the top of stores along Orpington High St need to be stopped. The police are powerless as the council will not take measures to force stores to secure roof access. I've seen several shoppers get hurt by projectiles in the last few months. Litter is one thing but this surely takes a much higher priority?[/p][/quote]Try this...put your left hand on your heart, raise your right hand and say these words, I swear that I have never in my lifetime knowingly dropped litter and walked on in the hope that no one has noticed... yea, I thought not. ksc
  • Score: 1

11:20am Mon 1 Apr 13

Petra69 says...

ksc wrote:
Tiabrowning wrote:
Good. Has this chap learned the lesson that society wants to teach him? I hope so. Don't litter, period.

Perhaps the council would now like to act on actively anti social behaviour - the youths that throw things from the top of stores along Orpington High St need to be stopped. The police are powerless as the council will not take measures to force stores to secure roof access.

I've seen several shoppers get hurt by projectiles in the last few months. Litter is one thing but this surely takes a much higher priority?
Try this...put your left hand on your heart, raise your right hand and say these words, I swear that I have never in my lifetime knowingly dropped litter and walked on in the hope that no one has noticed... yea, I thought not.
So? And your point is? It's the same as speeding or parking illegally. We've all done it but hoped not to be caught. He has been. Now he is bleating about paying his dues to society for breaking the law.

While on the subject why not reduce all benefits to smokers. They are clearly getting too much.
[quote][p][bold]ksc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tiabrowning[/bold] wrote: Good. Has this chap learned the lesson that society wants to teach him? I hope so. Don't litter, period. Perhaps the council would now like to act on actively anti social behaviour - the youths that throw things from the top of stores along Orpington High St need to be stopped. The police are powerless as the council will not take measures to force stores to secure roof access. I've seen several shoppers get hurt by projectiles in the last few months. Litter is one thing but this surely takes a much higher priority?[/p][/quote]Try this...put your left hand on your heart, raise your right hand and say these words, I swear that I have never in my lifetime knowingly dropped litter and walked on in the hope that no one has noticed... yea, I thought not.[/p][/quote]So? And your point is? It's the same as speeding or parking illegally. We've all done it but hoped not to be caught. He has been. Now he is bleating about paying his dues to society for breaking the law. While on the subject why not reduce all benefits to smokers. They are clearly getting too much. Petra69
  • Score: 0

12:21pm Mon 1 Apr 13

Mike Honcho says...

Petra69 wrote:
ksc wrote:
Tiabrowning wrote:
Good. Has this chap learned the lesson that society wants to teach him? I hope so. Don't litter, period.

Perhaps the council would now like to act on actively anti social behaviour - the youths that throw things from the top of stores along Orpington High St need to be stopped. The police are powerless as the council will not take measures to force stores to secure roof access.

I've seen several shoppers get hurt by projectiles in the last few months. Litter is one thing but this surely takes a much higher priority?
Try this...put your left hand on your heart, raise your right hand and say these words, I swear that I have never in my lifetime knowingly dropped litter and walked on in the hope that no one has noticed... yea, I thought not.
So? And your point is? It's the same as speeding or parking illegally. We've all done it but hoped not to be caught. He has been. Now he is bleating about paying his dues to society for breaking the law.

While on the subject why not reduce all benefits to smokers. They are clearly getting too much.
" While on the subject why not reduce all benefits to smokers. They are clearly getting too much"

Drug and alcohol testing for any bennys too.
[quote][p][bold]Petra69[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ksc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tiabrowning[/bold] wrote: Good. Has this chap learned the lesson that society wants to teach him? I hope so. Don't litter, period. Perhaps the council would now like to act on actively anti social behaviour - the youths that throw things from the top of stores along Orpington High St need to be stopped. The police are powerless as the council will not take measures to force stores to secure roof access. I've seen several shoppers get hurt by projectiles in the last few months. Litter is one thing but this surely takes a much higher priority?[/p][/quote]Try this...put your left hand on your heart, raise your right hand and say these words, I swear that I have never in my lifetime knowingly dropped litter and walked on in the hope that no one has noticed... yea, I thought not.[/p][/quote]So? And your point is? It's the same as speeding or parking illegally. We've all done it but hoped not to be caught. He has been. Now he is bleating about paying his dues to society for breaking the law. While on the subject why not reduce all benefits to smokers. They are clearly getting too much.[/p][/quote]" While on the subject why not reduce all benefits to smokers. They are clearly getting too much" Drug and alcohol testing for any bennys too. Mike Honcho
  • Score: 0

2:40pm Mon 1 Apr 13

Oldchap says...

Tiabrowning wrote:
Good. Has this chap learned the lesson that society wants to teach him? I hope so. Don't litter, period.

Perhaps the council would now like to act on actively anti social behaviour - the youths that throw things from the top of stores along Orpington High St need to be stopped. The police are powerless as the council will not take measures to force stores to secure roof access.

I've seen several shoppers get hurt by projectiles in the last few months. Litter is one thing but this surely takes a much higher priority?
How can this be the council's fault? If youths are throwing things off roofs the surely the police can take action, especially if someone gets hurt

No different to someone throwing an object in the street - it is assault.

Or is everything the councils fault?
[quote][p][bold]Tiabrowning[/bold] wrote: Good. Has this chap learned the lesson that society wants to teach him? I hope so. Don't litter, period. Perhaps the council would now like to act on actively anti social behaviour - the youths that throw things from the top of stores along Orpington High St need to be stopped. The police are powerless as the council will not take measures to force stores to secure roof access. I've seen several shoppers get hurt by projectiles in the last few months. Litter is one thing but this surely takes a much higher priority?[/p][/quote]How can this be the council's fault? If youths are throwing things off roofs the surely the police can take action, especially if someone gets hurt No different to someone throwing an object in the street - it is assault. Or is everything the councils fault? Oldchap
  • Score: 1

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