Bromley Council accused of hypocrisy over XFor litter fines

News Shopper: Graham Shepherd with his wife Lisbeth in their garden with some of the rubbish which has been thrown over their fence Graham Shepherd with his wife Lisbeth in their garden with some of the rubbish which has been thrown over their fence

‘HYPOCRITICAL’ Bromley Council could find itself with a fine for littering after recruiting a private company to crack down on the issue in Bromley High Street.

Working in pairs or sometimes standing in a group of three, the XFor environmental officers are usually stationed in the High Street handing out fines to people who drop litter or cigarette butts.

Instead of giving people a warning and the opportunity to pick their litter up they give them a fixed penalty notice of £80, with the private company taking £45 of this.

But while the council is working to reduce littering in the town centre Graham Shepherd says it is doing nothing to stop people from dropping rubbish elsewhere.

He says litter regularly gets thrown over his fence into his garden and says flytipping is also rife near his home in May Avenue, St Mary Cray.

Mr Shepherd, 53, said: “Should I put a bill in to Bromley Council for picking up their mess?

“On three occasions we have said to Bromley Council can you not put a bin on the corner of Stanley Way?

“By May Avenue there is a bag of rubbish which has been there for two weeks and there is also a bag of dog mess.

His wife Lisbeth, 51, paid out £80 after being seen by XFor workers dropping a cigarette end near The Glades last week.

He added: “She did litter but it is the double standards which annoys me.

“It’s hypocritical for them to fine my wife and not do anything about the litter in other areas of the borough.

“In Bromley town centre you cannot drop a fag butt but in Marion Crescent you can fly tip.”

Executive councillor for the environment Colin Smith said: “We are absolutely determined to continue improving the quality of street cleanliness in our borough and discourage littering which contributes towards the cost of £4 million a year for Bromley council taxpayers.

“The trial has not simply focussed on Bromley High Street but has also targeted other shopping areas in all parts of the borough.

“We are hopeful that in time, the enforcement will cover other areas too, including residential streets where we are particularly keen to focus on irresponsible dog owners who fail to clean up after their animals.

“I would encourage residents to report all fly tips, however small, to enable us to take prompt action.

“Where there are no litter bins, people should take their rubbish home with them.

“It is not council policy to install litter bins in all residential side-streets, only those with relatively high footfall.

“We did look at the location as requested and concluded that as Mr Shepherd lives in a residential area and not by a bus stop, school or outside shops, there was no need for a bin.”

“However, in light of these latest comments, we will keep this area under review.”

What do you think of the XFor litter officers? Have your say below.

Comments (37)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

4:42pm Tue 5 Feb 13

goldenbroomboy says...

Thugs who are paid to bully. Anybody who receives one of their notices should apppeal the same, & then we can see if the bullies are able to string more than five or six words together.

I don't understand Colin's argument. Surely Litter Bins are easier & cheaper than paid thugs?
Thugs who are paid to bully. Anybody who receives one of their notices should apppeal the same, & then we can see if the bullies are able to string more than five or six words together. I don't understand Colin's argument. Surely Litter Bins are easier & cheaper than paid thugs? goldenbroomboy

10:38pm Tue 5 Feb 13

gottleofgear says...

There is no appeal process for these tickets. The only way to appeal is to go to court!!

Don't leave your fag end, stand on it to put it out then pick it up. If you don't walk away leaving it, they can't give you a ticket!

Give them the finger!!!
There is no appeal process for these tickets. The only way to appeal is to go to court!! Don't leave your fag end, stand on it to put it out then pick it up. If you don't walk away leaving it, they can't give you a ticket! Give them the finger!!! gottleofgear

12:39pm Wed 6 Feb 13

cookster says...

Are the traffic wardens going to fine these XXXFors when they catch them illegally parking all over Bromley? Or is it a closed-shop.

Market Square last Saturday at around 4pm if you're interested....
Are the traffic wardens going to fine these XXXFors when they catch them illegally parking all over Bromley? Or is it a closed-shop. Market Square last Saturday at around 4pm if you're interested.... cookster

3:49pm Wed 6 Feb 13

bnorther says...

If you just walk away - what right do they have to stop you? They have no power of arrest do they?
If you just walk away - what right do they have to stop you? They have no power of arrest do they? bnorther

6:49pm Wed 6 Feb 13

gottleofgear says...

bnorther wrote:
If you just walk away - what right do they have to stop you? They have no power of arrest do they?
No, they only have the power to request name and address, they do not have the power to detain. If you walk away, you could be arrested as you have committed a criminal offence of littering. By not giving your name and address that is another offence. A police officer would have no choice but to arrest you. Most likely you would then be put into custody and when you did give your details in the police station, they would then be passed to the litter wardens.

If you don't walk away, there is no offence if you pick it up.

Best thing is, don't litter!
[quote][p][bold]bnorther[/bold] wrote: If you just walk away - what right do they have to stop you? They have no power of arrest do they?[/p][/quote]No, they only have the power to request name and address, they do not have the power to detain. If you walk away, you could be arrested as you have committed a criminal offence of littering. By not giving your name and address that is another offence. A police officer would have no choice but to arrest you. Most likely you would then be put into custody and when you did give your details in the police station, they would then be passed to the litter wardens. If you don't walk away, there is no offence if you pick it up. Best thing is, don't litter! gottleofgear

11:29am Thu 7 Feb 13

the wall says...

There is no law to say you have to give your name and address to anyone.
There is no law to say you have to give your name and address to anyone. the wall

11:46am Thu 7 Feb 13

bnorther says...

gottleofgear wrote:
bnorther wrote:
If you just walk away - what right do they have to stop you? They have no power of arrest do they?
No, they only have the power to request name and address, they do not have the power to detain. If you walk away, you could be arrested as you have committed a criminal offence of littering. By not giving your name and address that is another offence. A police officer would have no choice but to arrest you. Most likely you would then be put into custody and when you did give your details in the police station, they would then be passed to the litter wardens.

If you don't walk away, there is no offence if you pick it up.

Best thing is, don't litter!
"By not giving your name and address that is another offence."

What offence? If a police officer asked you, you only have to give this information up if arrested. If you are walking away from a Xfor employee and not giving your details, you are not arrested, so no crime has been committed.

I wouldn't throw litter, but if I got stopped by an XFor employee I would walk on. If a policeman was present, I would give all my details no problem.

The problem is we are introducing commercialism into this, but they have plastic powers that rely on people fear. This is wrong. I want to agree with the crack down on littering, but this is happening for all the wrong reasons. Minor litter problems are getting £80 fines. But a truckload of rubbish dumped in an ally gets ignored. A sense of proportionality is required, and remove any financial gain for a private company which is unaccountable and has *NO* appeals procedure. The only way is to go to court. I guess there most cases would be thrown out due to lack of evidence. It seems nothing has been learned from the problems with the scam companies that setup car parks and then scammed lots of people into paying fines. There is place for a well regulated bunch of litter wardens, but not ones who are driven by £45 pay for each fine.

Also - if the pounce on you immediately, no offence has been committed. Check out Environmental Protection Act 1990 Section 87. An offence is only comitted if you leave it. So if you pick it up, there is no offence.
[quote][p][bold]gottleofgear[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bnorther[/bold] wrote: If you just walk away - what right do they have to stop you? They have no power of arrest do they?[/p][/quote]No, they only have the power to request name and address, they do not have the power to detain. If you walk away, you could be arrested as you have committed a criminal offence of littering. By not giving your name and address that is another offence. A police officer would have no choice but to arrest you. Most likely you would then be put into custody and when you did give your details in the police station, they would then be passed to the litter wardens. If you don't walk away, there is no offence if you pick it up. Best thing is, don't litter![/p][/quote]"By not giving your name and address that is another offence." What offence? If a police officer asked you, you only have to give this information up if arrested. If you are walking away from a Xfor employee and not giving your details, you are not arrested, so no crime has been committed. I wouldn't throw litter, but if I got stopped by an XFor employee I would walk on. If a policeman was present, I would give all my details no problem. The problem is we are introducing commercialism into this, but they have plastic powers that rely on people fear. This is wrong. I want to agree with the crack down on littering, but this is happening for all the wrong reasons. Minor litter problems are getting £80 fines. But a truckload of rubbish dumped in an ally gets ignored. A sense of proportionality is required, and remove any financial gain for a private company which is unaccountable and has *NO* appeals procedure. The only way is to go to court. I guess there most cases would be thrown out due to lack of evidence. It seems nothing has been learned from the problems with the scam companies that setup car parks and then scammed lots of people into paying fines. There is place for a well regulated bunch of litter wardens, but not ones who are driven by £45 pay for each fine. Also - if the pounce on you immediately, no offence has been committed. Check out Environmental Protection Act 1990 Section 87. An offence is only comitted if you leave it. So if you pick it up, there is no offence. bnorther

3:00pm Thu 7 Feb 13

the wall says...

You have the right to remain silent after your arrest but also before.
You have the right to remain silent after your arrest but also before. the wall

3:02pm Thu 7 Feb 13

the wall says...

EPA Section 87: The Offence of ‘Leaving Litter’
Section 87 makes dropping, throwing, leaving or depositing of litter in a public place and causing
defacement a criminal offence, carrying with it a maximum fine of £2,500 (level 4 on the standard
scale). It is triable in the magistrates’ court.
EPA Section 87: The Offence of ‘Leaving Litter’ Section 87 makes dropping, throwing, leaving or depositing of litter in a public place and causing defacement a criminal offence, carrying with it a maximum fine of £2,500 (level 4 on the standard scale). It is triable in the magistrates’ court. the wall

3:49pm Thu 7 Feb 13

gottleofgear says...

Let's get this straight. If you have committed an offence, you can be arrested. Then you have to give your details, if you don't then that is a separate offence. You would be put through custody procedure and interviewed where you would have to give your details. A mountain out of a mole hill perhaps but you cannot pick and choose what laws you like, the law is the law.

The Section 87 law quoted is correct, the offence is to "leave" the litter, which is why I stated earlier that if you don't walk away, then you haven't committed an offence.

The litter wardens can only request your details, if you walk away, or refuse, they will more than likely call the police, so you could in theory be arrested.

According to the Bromley Council website, Bromley Magistrates Court have put to one side, one afternoon a month to hear cases brought from the non-payers, so you will end up going to court if you refuse.

Let's all be sensible, I know it's just a cigarette end, but put it in a street ashtray or take it home, that way, you'll avoid all the hassle and confrontation.
Let's get this straight. If you have committed an offence, you can be arrested. Then you have to give your details, if you don't then that is a separate offence. You would be put through custody procedure and interviewed where you would have to give your details. A mountain out of a mole hill perhaps but you cannot pick and choose what laws you like, the law is the law. The Section 87 law quoted is correct, the offence is to "leave" the litter, which is why I stated earlier that if you don't walk away, then you haven't committed an offence. The litter wardens can only request your details, if you walk away, or refuse, they will more than likely call the police, so you could in theory be arrested. According to the Bromley Council website, Bromley Magistrates Court have put to one side, one afternoon a month to hear cases brought from the non-payers, so you will end up going to court if you refuse. Let's all be sensible, I know it's just a cigarette end, but put it in a street ashtray or take it home, that way, you'll avoid all the hassle and confrontation. gottleofgear

5:28pm Thu 7 Feb 13

the wall says...

I agree with everything that has been posted.
But these 'Litter Police' are well known for give out unjust tickets.

Child drop crisps
Someone drop a bank card
are just 2 examples.

This is a slippy slop the public should not start going down.
I agree with everything that has been posted. But these 'Litter Police' are well known for give out unjust tickets. Child drop crisps Someone drop a bank card are just 2 examples. This is a slippy slop the public should not start going down. the wall

5:54pm Thu 7 Feb 13

gottleofgear says...

the wall wrote:
I agree with everything that has been posted.
But these 'Litter Police' are well known for give out unjust tickets.

Child drop crisps
Someone drop a bank card
are just 2 examples.

This is a slippy slop the public should not start going down.
I think these case are urban myths. I heard about these happening elsewhere too. Apparently over 90% of their fines are smoking related, i.e. dog ends!
[quote][p][bold]the wall[/bold] wrote: I agree with everything that has been posted. But these 'Litter Police' are well known for give out unjust tickets. Child drop crisps Someone drop a bank card are just 2 examples. This is a slippy slop the public should not start going down.[/p][/quote]I think these case are urban myths. I heard about these happening elsewhere too. Apparently over 90% of their fines are smoking related, i.e. dog ends! gottleofgear

8:48pm Thu 7 Feb 13

Marty1979 says...

the wall wrote:
I agree with everything that has been posted.
But these 'Litter Police' are well known for give out unjust tickets.

Child drop crisps
Someone drop a bank card
are just 2 examples.

This is a slippy slop the public should not start going down.
The best one (not in Bromley, but I expect they'd act the same) someone went to a cashpoint & dropped a £20 note

They got fined
[quote][p][bold]the wall[/bold] wrote: I agree with everything that has been posted. But these 'Litter Police' are well known for give out unjust tickets. Child drop crisps Someone drop a bank card are just 2 examples. This is a slippy slop the public should not start going down.[/p][/quote]The best one (not in Bromley, but I expect they'd act the same) someone went to a cashpoint & dropped a £20 note They got fined Marty1979

9:04pm Thu 7 Feb 13

gottleofgear says...

Marty1979 wrote:
the wall wrote:
I agree with everything that has been posted.
But these 'Litter Police' are well known for give out unjust tickets.

Child drop crisps
Someone drop a bank card
are just 2 examples.

This is a slippy slop the public should not start going down.
The best one (not in Bromley, but I expect they'd act the same) someone went to a cashpoint & dropped a £20 note

They got fined
Do you really believe this? I don't think so. I heard another one where the wind blew the ice cream off a cornet.

Even a jobsworth would never hope to get away with issuing a ticket for something like that.
[quote][p][bold]Marty1979[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]the wall[/bold] wrote: I agree with everything that has been posted. But these 'Litter Police' are well known for give out unjust tickets. Child drop crisps Someone drop a bank card are just 2 examples. This is a slippy slop the public should not start going down.[/p][/quote]The best one (not in Bromley, but I expect they'd act the same) someone went to a cashpoint & dropped a £20 note They got fined[/p][/quote]Do you really believe this? I don't think so. I heard another one where the wind blew the ice cream off a cornet. Even a jobsworth would never hope to get away with issuing a ticket for something like that. gottleofgear

9:12pm Thu 7 Feb 13

nearly right all the time says...

why dont these guys try and give a ticket too some of the "fly tippers"
that operate.

Perhaps even pull up to any traveller
site and start handing out litter fines!
why dont these guys try and give a ticket too some of the "fly tippers" that operate. Perhaps even pull up to any traveller site and start handing out litter fines! nearly right all the time

9:18pm Thu 7 Feb 13

gottleofgear says...

Because that's not what they are there for. That is dealt with by a separate department within the council. The council do try alongside the police and prosecuctions are no doubt made, although I think boroughs like Croydon do a better job of that. They employ people to solely investigate fly tipping, which I don't think Bromley do.

These wardens are meant to be in the town centres. That is their remit.
Because that's not what they are there for. That is dealt with by a separate department within the council. The council do try alongside the police and prosecuctions are no doubt made, although I think boroughs like Croydon do a better job of that. They employ people to solely investigate fly tipping, which I don't think Bromley do. These wardens are meant to be in the town centres. That is their remit. gottleofgear

10:55am Fri 8 Feb 13

the wall says...

Using a private company takes away ALL discretion as it operates for profit.

http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/uk-england-lon
don-21200058


Sample of reasons Xfor has fined people £80:

Dropping a bank card
Dropping nut shells - Fair
Dropping orange peel - Fair
Dropping a pen
Dropping a banana skin - fair

Source: Freedom of Information Request to Hillingdon Council
Using a private company takes away ALL discretion as it operates for profit. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-england-lon don-21200058 Sample of reasons Xfor has fined people £80: Dropping a bank card Dropping nut shells - Fair Dropping orange peel - Fair Dropping a pen Dropping a banana skin - fair Source: Freedom of Information Request to Hillingdon Council the wall

11:01am Fri 8 Feb 13

the wall says...

Woman fined £400 for dropping sachet of salt -

http://www.lccsa.org
.uk/news.asp?ItemID=
30289
Woman fined £400 for dropping sachet of salt - http://www.lccsa.org .uk/news.asp?ItemID= 30289 the wall

2:18pm Fri 8 Feb 13

Burntout says...

Surely its hypercritical of the Shepherds to be complaining of people dropping litter while dropping it themselves and not the other way round! Bromley could put a bin on evey street but we'd all have to pay more council tax.
Surely its hypercritical of the Shepherds to be complaining of people dropping litter while dropping it themselves and not the other way round! Bromley could put a bin on evey street but we'd all have to pay more council tax. Burntout

2:14am Sat 9 Feb 13

bruceyboots says...

What a load of rubbish!
What a load of rubbish! bruceyboots

10:07am Sat 9 Feb 13

goldenbroomboy says...

the wall wrote:
I agree with everything that has been posted. But these 'Litter Police' are well known for give out unjust tickets. Child drop crisps Someone drop a bank card are just 2 examples. This is a slippy slop the public should not start going down.
I too have read about a child who dropped some crisps, the bullies issued one of their notices to the child's mother since the child was under the age of criminal responsibilty. My understanding is that is wrong in law but they tried it anyway.

These individuals are like debt collectors, essentially they will try to get away with whatever they can, until somebody stands up to them.
[quote][p][bold]the wall[/bold] wrote: I agree with everything that has been posted. But these 'Litter Police' are well known for give out unjust tickets. Child drop crisps Someone drop a bank card are just 2 examples. This is a slippy slop the public should not start going down.[/p][/quote]I too have read about a child who dropped some crisps, the bullies issued one of their notices to the child's mother since the child was under the age of criminal responsibilty. My understanding is that is wrong in law but they tried it anyway. These individuals are like debt collectors, essentially they will try to get away with whatever they can, until somebody stands up to them. goldenbroomboy

3:49pm Sat 9 Feb 13

nearly right all the time says...

This is what is wrong with this council
all the big polluters get away scot free

The fly tipppers (How many in the last have been proscuted, i tell you NONE)

The sites that are illegally used to breakcars, (oil, petrol, batteries all left
to breakdown in the soil)

But a child drops a sweet wrapper
the full force of law is appiled.

But then thats what the council wants
to raise revenue thats all it is about
caining hard working honest people for all they can

Who ever is involved this dispiciable
scheme should hold their heads in shame !
This is what is wrong with this council all the big polluters get away scot free The fly tipppers (How many in the last have been proscuted, i tell you NONE) The sites that are illegally used to breakcars, (oil, petrol, batteries all left to breakdown in the soil) But a child drops a sweet wrapper the full force of law is appiled. But then thats what the council wants to raise revenue thats all it is about caining hard working honest people for all they can Who ever is involved this dispiciable scheme should hold their heads in shame ! nearly right all the time

6:40pm Sat 9 Feb 13

gottleofgear says...

Everyone that disagrees and thinks it is a scandel should tell the council what they think. Send it to them by post rather than email. Get up a petition.

The voice of the people!!!
Everyone that disagrees and thinks it is a scandel should tell the council what they think. Send it to them by post rather than email. Get up a petition. The voice of the people!!! gottleofgear

11:39am Sun 10 Feb 13

Virtual-Monster says...

Simple answer to all of this is DO NOT LITTER!

I don’t understand why people whinge and moan about fines and wardens when the legislation was only introduced because of lazy, good for nothing, worthless, scum bags dropping their fag ends and litter anywhere they wanted to.

Maybe if people disposed of their crap where it should be disposed of (take it home idiots and put it in your own bins if you can't see a litter bin) then there would not have been a need for the legislation to be introduced and fines issued.

I want to live in a nice place where ignorant semi-literate amoebas who pass themselves off as humans don’t drop litter where they want to, where people take responsibility for their own actions and where the streets are not covered in other peoples detritus.

More wardens please and issue them with big sticks and Tasers to help focus litter dropping scumbags minds.
Simple answer to all of this is DO NOT LITTER! I don’t understand why people whinge and moan about fines and wardens when the legislation was only introduced because of lazy, good for nothing, worthless, scum bags dropping their fag ends and litter anywhere they wanted to. Maybe if people disposed of their crap where it should be disposed of (take it home idiots and put it in your own bins if you can't see a litter bin) then there would not have been a need for the legislation to be introduced and fines issued. I want to live in a nice place where ignorant semi-literate amoebas who pass themselves off as humans don’t drop litter where they want to, where people take responsibility for their own actions and where the streets are not covered in other peoples detritus. More wardens please and issue them with big sticks and Tasers to help focus litter dropping scumbags minds. Virtual-Monster

12:41pm Sun 10 Feb 13

gottleofgear says...

I think that's a bit strong, I don't think you can describe someone who puts out a cigarette on the pavement as an amoeba, a sumbag and ignorant semi-literate.

Yes it's litter, but in the scheme of things does it really deserve an £80 fine? I think not.
I think that's a bit strong, I don't think you can describe someone who puts out a cigarette on the pavement as an amoeba, a sumbag and ignorant semi-literate. Yes it's litter, but in the scheme of things does it really deserve an £80 fine? I think not. gottleofgear

5:13pm Sun 10 Feb 13

nearly right all the time says...

Mr Monster,

The hon member for BARKING!


Why not flog them, this would save on the paper work!
Mr Monster, The hon member for BARKING! Why not flog them, this would save on the paper work! nearly right all the time

5:29pm Sun 10 Feb 13

nearly right all the time says...

we could also make the women undergo the ducking stool!

the children could pick oakum

the men could be transported to the
new world,

the possibilites are endless,

trail by fire thats a good one!

electro shock therapy for persistant offenders

branding! how about that?
we could also make the women undergo the ducking stool! the children could pick oakum the men could be transported to the new world, the possibilites are endless, trail by fire thats a good one! electro shock therapy for persistant offenders branding! how about that? nearly right all the time

9:17am Mon 11 Feb 13

Virtual-Monster says...

nearly right all the time wrote:
Mr Monster,

The hon member for BARKING!


Why not flog them, this would save on the paper work!
After 'leading' me into the temptation of replying, I agree, flogging litter bugs is indeed an excellent idea and I would like to raise this with the 'pack'.

It sounds an environmentally friendly solution to me, offering swift summary justice. I like your thinking!

Maybe you would like to join me atop a hill where we can howl together?
[quote][p][bold]nearly right all the time[/bold] wrote: Mr Monster, The hon member for BARKING! Why not flog them, this would save on the paper work![/p][/quote]After 'leading' me into the temptation of replying, I agree, flogging litter bugs is indeed an excellent idea and I would like to raise this with the 'pack'. It sounds an environmentally friendly solution to me, offering swift summary justice. I like your thinking! Maybe you would like to join me atop a hill where we can howl together? Virtual-Monster

10:15am Mon 11 Feb 13

clairalixe says...

I understand that they're trying to stop littering but it's just ridiculous. There are nowhere near enough bins in Bromley, especially cigarette bins. They could easily put a few mounted onto walls up and down the high street and I'm sure people would use them. Expecting people to hold on to their cigarette butts until they eventually find a place to put them is stupid, it will never happen.
I understand that they're trying to stop littering but it's just ridiculous. There are nowhere near enough bins in Bromley, especially cigarette bins. They could easily put a few mounted onto walls up and down the high street and I'm sure people would use them. Expecting people to hold on to their cigarette butts until they eventually find a place to put them is stupid, it will never happen. clairalixe

4:04pm Mon 11 Feb 13

Virtual-Monster says...

clairalixe wrote:
I understand that they're trying to stop littering but it's just ridiculous. There are nowhere near enough bins in Bromley, especially cigarette bins. They could easily put a few mounted onto walls up and down the high street and I'm sure people would use them. Expecting people to hold on to their cigarette butts until they eventually find a place to put them is stupid, it will never happen.
And there it is.

Why should tax payers pay to supply, maintain and empty cigarette bins? Selfish smokers should dispose of their cigarette waste properly.

And - exactly why shouldn't a smoker take their disgusting DNA covered cigarette butts to a place where the can be disposed of correctly? Do you think that a person who consumes a carcinogenic product which pollutes my body as much as their own has a right to ignore the law and dump the detritus from their disgusting habit anywhere?

Maybe the Government should introduce legislation which forces cigarette manufacturers to introduce a means to dispose of cigarette butts before they are discarded? It would be simple for cigarette boxes to be constructed with a small pouch to hold used butts but no selfish smoker wants to walk around with smelly butts in their pockets and I don’t want to see those same disgusting butts dumped in the street.

People should not litter and the only way to tackle this problem currently is to utilise the existing legislation which includes issuing Fixed Penalty Notices (which for the information of the uninformed amongst you is legally deemed as a ‘warning’ rather than a punishment).
[quote][p][bold]clairalixe[/bold] wrote: I understand that they're trying to stop littering but it's just ridiculous. There are nowhere near enough bins in Bromley, especially cigarette bins. They could easily put a few mounted onto walls up and down the high street and I'm sure people would use them. Expecting people to hold on to their cigarette butts until they eventually find a place to put them is stupid, it will never happen.[/p][/quote]And there it is. Why should tax payers pay to supply, maintain and empty cigarette bins? Selfish smokers should dispose of their cigarette waste properly. And - exactly why shouldn't a smoker take their disgusting DNA covered cigarette butts to a place where the can be disposed of correctly? Do you think that a person who consumes a carcinogenic product which pollutes my body as much as their own has a right to ignore the law and dump the detritus from their disgusting habit anywhere? Maybe the Government should introduce legislation which forces cigarette manufacturers to introduce a means to dispose of cigarette butts before they are discarded? It would be simple for cigarette boxes to be constructed with a small pouch to hold used butts but no selfish smoker wants to walk around with smelly butts in their pockets and I don’t want to see those same disgusting butts dumped in the street. People should not litter and the only way to tackle this problem currently is to utilise the existing legislation which includes issuing Fixed Penalty Notices (which for the information of the uninformed amongst you is legally deemed as a ‘warning’ rather than a punishment). Virtual-Monster

9:02am Tue 12 Feb 13

banjo8 says...

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. If you drop litter, anything at all, you deserve to be charged for it.
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. If you drop litter, anything at all, you deserve to be charged for it. banjo8

10:22am Tue 12 Feb 13

gottleofgear says...

banjo8 wrote:
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. If you drop litter, anything at all, you deserve to be charged for it.
Then I hope you don't accidently drop a receipt when walking out of a shop, cos they will have you!!!
[quote][p][bold]banjo8[/bold] wrote: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. If you drop litter, anything at all, you deserve to be charged for it.[/p][/quote]Then I hope you don't accidently drop a receipt when walking out of a shop, cos they will have you!!! gottleofgear

10:46am Tue 12 Feb 13

the wall says...

Virtual-Monster wrote:
clairalixe wrote:
I understand that they're trying to stop littering but it's just ridiculous. There are nowhere near enough bins in Bromley, especially cigarette bins. They could easily put a few mounted onto walls up and down the high street and I'm sure people would use them. Expecting people to hold on to their cigarette butts until they eventually find a place to put them is stupid, it will never happen.
And there it is.

Why should tax payers pay to supply, maintain and empty cigarette bins? Selfish smokers should dispose of their cigarette waste properly.

And - exactly why shouldn't a smoker take their disgusting DNA covered cigarette butts to a place where the can be disposed of correctly? Do you think that a person who consumes a carcinogenic product which pollutes my body as much as their own has a right to ignore the law and dump the detritus from their disgusting habit anywhere?

Maybe the Government should introduce legislation which forces cigarette manufacturers to introduce a means to dispose of cigarette butts before they are discarded? It would be simple for cigarette boxes to be constructed with a small pouch to hold used butts but no selfish smoker wants to walk around with smelly butts in their pockets and I don’t want to see those same disgusting butts dumped in the street.

People should not litter and the only way to tackle this problem currently is to utilise the existing legislation which includes issuing Fixed Penalty Notices (which for the information of the uninformed amongst you is legally deemed as a ‘warning’ rather than a punishment).
It's not just fag butts thou. Newspapers, drinks cans, take away food and wrappings, chewing gum (just look at the floor around a bus stop) tissues.

Why can't all this be taken home?
[quote][p][bold]Virtual-Monster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]clairalixe[/bold] wrote: I understand that they're trying to stop littering but it's just ridiculous. There are nowhere near enough bins in Bromley, especially cigarette bins. They could easily put a few mounted onto walls up and down the high street and I'm sure people would use them. Expecting people to hold on to their cigarette butts until they eventually find a place to put them is stupid, it will never happen.[/p][/quote]And there it is. Why should tax payers pay to supply, maintain and empty cigarette bins? Selfish smokers should dispose of their cigarette waste properly. And - exactly why shouldn't a smoker take their disgusting DNA covered cigarette butts to a place where the can be disposed of correctly? Do you think that a person who consumes a carcinogenic product which pollutes my body as much as their own has a right to ignore the law and dump the detritus from their disgusting habit anywhere? Maybe the Government should introduce legislation which forces cigarette manufacturers to introduce a means to dispose of cigarette butts before they are discarded? It would be simple for cigarette boxes to be constructed with a small pouch to hold used butts but no selfish smoker wants to walk around with smelly butts in their pockets and I don’t want to see those same disgusting butts dumped in the street. People should not litter and the only way to tackle this problem currently is to utilise the existing legislation which includes issuing Fixed Penalty Notices (which for the information of the uninformed amongst you is legally deemed as a ‘warning’ rather than a punishment).[/p][/quote]It's not just fag butts thou. Newspapers, drinks cans, take away food and wrappings, chewing gum (just look at the floor around a bus stop) tissues. Why can't all this be taken home? the wall

10:56am Tue 12 Feb 13

gottleofgear says...

You have a good point there, but over 90% of the tickets that they have given out have been smoking related, i.e. fag butts. It's just easy pickings with smokers, and a way for Bromley Council to rake in yet more of our money to waste on crap!
You have a good point there, but over 90% of the tickets that they have given out have been smoking related, i.e. fag butts. It's just easy pickings with smokers, and a way for Bromley Council to rake in yet more of our money to waste on crap! gottleofgear

11:29am Tue 12 Feb 13

Virtual-Monster says...

gottleofgear wrote:
You have a good point there, but over 90% of the tickets that they have given out have been smoking related, i.e. fag butts. It's just easy pickings with smokers, and a way for Bromley Council to rake in yet more of our money to waste on crap!
Smokers wouldn't get fined if they disposed of their cigarette butts properly. So whose fault is it when they get caught and fined? It’s the smokers fault of course, NO ONE ELSE.

Is personal responsibility such a difficult concept for you to understand?
[quote][p][bold]gottleofgear[/bold] wrote: You have a good point there, but over 90% of the tickets that they have given out have been smoking related, i.e. fag butts. It's just easy pickings with smokers, and a way for Bromley Council to rake in yet more of our money to waste on crap![/p][/quote]Smokers wouldn't get fined if they disposed of their cigarette butts properly. So whose fault is it when they get caught and fined? It’s the smokers fault of course, NO ONE ELSE. Is personal responsibility such a difficult concept for you to understand? Virtual-Monster

12:26pm Tue 12 Feb 13

gottleofgear says...

No need to be rude and aggressive mate. I'm not a smoker either, but it's really not proportionate to give an £80 fine to someone dropping a cigarette end. Would they rather them risk fires by putting them into bins???

You can get the same fine for stealing in a shop! Which is more serious!! Which one really deserves an £80 fine.
No need to be rude and aggressive mate. I'm not a smoker either, but it's really not proportionate to give an £80 fine to someone dropping a cigarette end. Would they rather them risk fires by putting them into bins??? You can get the same fine for stealing in a shop! Which is more serious!! Which one really deserves an £80 fine. gottleofgear

10:17pm Mon 18 Feb 13

gottleofgear says...

Did you know about the Big Belly Bins appearing in Bromley. There is currently one outside Bromley South Railway Station

http://www.bigbellys
olar.co.uk/
Did you know about the Big Belly Bins appearing in Bromley. There is currently one outside Bromley South Railway Station http://www.bigbellys olar.co.uk/ gottleofgear

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree