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Gay sex out of control

10:15am Tuesday 14th November 2006

comment Comments (48)   Have your say »


THE number of gay men having sex on Dartford Heath is spiralling "out of control" despite weekly surveillance by the council.

Dartford Council has been attempting to crack down on the lewd behaviour but says the problem is getting worse.

The heath is a known gay haunt and News Shopper reported back in 2002 how internet sites were directing them to the public space.

After numerous complaints from residents, six months ago the council started patrolling the area using a £6,000 van armed with two video cameras in a bid to catch the perpetrators in action.

One static camera is mounted onto the van's window screen and the other, which can move 360 degrees, has been attached to the roof. The van is driven to the heath once a week at varying times of the day to catch the men unawares.

Enforcement team manager Colin Newmarch said: "Eventually we want to catch someone in the act and then give the footage to the police to prosecute."

Currently the council has no powers to prosecute so Mr Newmarch wants to see more police patrols.

The council took part in a joint operation with the police in September.

Police officers spent a week patrolling the area on bikes to deter people from using the heath to have sex.

The council received no calls about the problem during September but for the past month it has been getting at least two a week at different times of the day.

Mr Newmarch added: "It has started to get out of control and we would like to see more police patrolling the area all year round."

Keen dog walker Pam Wood, of King Edward Avenue, Dartford, said: "There are lots of parents who go walking with their young children.

"They don't want to see things like this and have to explain it to their kids.

"These perverts don't even try to hide themselves in the bushes any more. They don't care, they just go at it in broad daylight."

Kent police spokesman Superintendent Chris Hogben said: "We are committed to policing Dartford.

"If our partner agencies make requests for the backing of a specific project, we will obviously look to support them."

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Your Say YourNews Shopper

John Lloyd, says...
1:12pm Tue 14 Nov 06

Surely Dartford Council has better things to do with it's money and resources!

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ginge, says...
1:19pm Tue 14 Nov 06

and i thought all dartford had going for it was a big tunnel, must get my self to dartford mmmmmm
"These perverts don't even try to hide themselves in the bushes any more. They don't care, they just go at it in broad daylight."
i must b a pervert.

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Mikey, says...
1:22pm Tue 14 Nov 06

I think if theyre disreet and maybe had a bit more thought for the residents, doing it at night for example, then i dont see a problem

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LewisH, says...
1:26pm Tue 14 Nov 06

Typical News Shopper drivel.
If the council has spent £6,000 on a van SIX months ago, don't you think it should have caught someone by now? Not very cost effective is it? I would assuem from this that either (1) the van is hardly used, or (2) the issue has been over dramartised by residents. I'm voting for option 2!

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Bill Smith, says...
1:32pm Tue 14 Nov 06

Out of interest, do you readers feel as outraged about local straight "dogging" sites? Or presumably, this is perfectly acceptable for your children to watch.

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queery-arse, says...
1:35pm Tue 14 Nov 06

but amazingly all the straight haunts and dogging sites never seem to get such bad publicity, then its a tabboo, but us gays are perverts?? where is the logic?

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LewisH, says...
1:36pm Tue 14 Nov 06

Keen dog walker Pam Wood
- Yeah, of course! ;o)

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haha, says...
1:38pm Tue 14 Nov 06

clearly an overeaction by a few residents, this is a problem across all sexualities straight couples too, so dont just blame us gays!

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sharon smallwood, says...
1:44pm Tue 14 Nov 06

John Lloyd wrote:
Surely Dartford Council has better things to do with it\'s money and resources!
you obviously dont have children then! i have stopped taking my son to the heath to ride his bike because of these sick deluded men who care about nothing but their sexual gratification,,about time the council done something

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haha, says...
1:48pm Tue 14 Nov 06

well maybe if you stopped forcing ppl who wish to explre that folk wouldnt have to do it sneakily in public places, ther sooner the rest of the uk gets over the whole gay thing the easier it will be for everyone, and no i dont have kids as im gay, and i dont meet at places to have sex as i live in a place where no1 cares who sleeps with who we are not called peprverts etc etc

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John Lloyd, says...
1:50pm Tue 14 Nov 06

Sharon, for your information I do have children. I take it you are unaware of the amount of hetrosexual couples that use the area for sexual gratification.

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LewisH, says...
1:52pm Tue 14 Nov 06

sharon smallwood wrote:
John Lloyd wrote: Surely Dartford Council has better things to do with it\'s money and resources!
you obviously dont have children then! i have stopped taking my son to the heath to ride his bike because of these sick deluded men who care about nothing but their sexual gratification,,about time the council done something
They why aren't they? You're trying to tell us that in 6 months of using this van they've purhcased that no one has been caught? Get real! As soon as the thing turns up, people (male AND female) will scarper! Why not get some plan clothed coppers down there? Or even better, why not address the issues that cause these men AND women to come to these area and behave like this?

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John, says...
1:59pm Tue 14 Nov 06

Southwark Council use a similar van to try and combat irresponsible pet owners that allow their dogs to foul parks etc. The van has been in operation for twelve months now but they have only caught two and prosecuted one owner to date. What a waste of money!

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Mikey, says...
2:04pm Tue 14 Nov 06

As an impartial gay man, i dont believe that anyone should be have sex in public straight or gay, why cant these people go to their house, its warm, private and legal! Plain clothes coppers wouldnt help, because that could be seen as entrapment. Why not have uniformed officers, as a visual deterrent? But then i dont think the people that partake of this sort of activity are causing major harm, but then i wouldnt say it was a was a waste of resources, it wouldnt take long to patrol the area 3 times a day would it

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matt, says...
2:28pm Tue 14 Nov 06

this is stupid

kids these days know what is what, and always have.

i knew i was gay at age 9 - i would of loved the opportunity to see a couple of "perverts" at it.

straight people i think, are convinced that they can keep their kids from seeing gay stuff, doing gay stuff, and becoming ultimately gay, however even if you have a straight kid, they are more than likely experimenting with their friends - so stop with the whinning!

if gays kiss in the street, we are accused of being perverts, so if some are going the full hog, good on them, let them at least make the namecalling worth it.



~end~

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Vaughaag, says...
2:29pm Tue 14 Nov 06

This sort of thing has been going on for years and I think gay people are being picked on. The police carried out a similar operation on a piece of common land near where I live, they carried out surveillance for two months and apparently building intelligence which suggested the land was being used by homosexual men to meet for sex. When it came to going up there and arresting people they came away with 14 heterosexual couples who had been romping in the bushes. There are better things to spend money on that this, people are out there killing, steeling and god knows what else.


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iPikTom, says...
2:30pm Tue 14 Nov 06

why cant these people go to their house, its warm, private and legal!
And what happens if we cannot goto our houses? Because our parents don't wish us to have sex with the same sex under their roof ??

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Mikey, says...
2:58pm Tue 14 Nov 06

Sex is not a necessity, i do believe it should be practised in a relaxing environment, not in full public view, it shouldnt be done, but if it is, it should be discreet

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Mike, says...
3:32pm Tue 14 Nov 06

so just because the men are assumed to be gay they are perverts! is Pam a Daily Mail reader by any chance!!!!

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Wil, says...
4:41pm Tue 14 Nov 06

Absolutley ridiclious that 'Pam' can class gay people as perverts! I can agree with what the aim of the article is but think Pam needs to think about her choice of words!

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Joe, says...
4:54pm Tue 14 Nov 06

Pam is obviously narrow-minded along with most straigh people. Being gay doesn't mean that you are a pervert.

Does Pam think that straigh couples 'doging' are perverts too? Or is it just gay men that she is persecuting?

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Liam, says...
5:07pm Tue 14 Nov 06

Sadly this journalist is scrapping the bottom of the barrel with this story, and even worse is her blatant attempts at detracting from a progressive gay society and indeed a progressive British society. The title itself is a complete travesty; her piece is one sided and derogatory to the intelligence of us all. It’s sad that even today gay men are labelled as ‘perverts,’ and ‘perverted,’ for the lawful right to engage in a sexual act with someone of the same sex, no I am not addressing the issue of sex in a public place, I am simply indulging the narrow mindedness of this piece, the writings of a homophobe.
Dogging has become as prominent as cruising in the woodlands and common lands of the country, so why should there be exceptions for one class of sexuality and not the other. I agree that no child should have to bare witness to carnal acts committed by homosexuals and neither should they be subjected to voyeuristic acts committed by so many heterosexual couples when dogging. There simply is no correct or so called ‘PC’ answer to this moral problem. But I do believe labelling those who chose to act out sexual in public perverted is lazy attempt at modern journalism.

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Mike, says...
5:14pm Tue 14 Nov 06

is the new shopper owned by the daily mail group by any chance???

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Sandra, says...
2:35pm Wed 15 Nov 06

I think people are missing the issue. The artcile isn't about gay bashing, it about the community losing a local resource. And nor does the Door walker say that Gays are perverts, people who expose themselves in public are.

Public parks etc are not for people, gay, straight or any other persuasion, to have sex. I don't want to see that and i certainly don't want my 5 year old son to see that.

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kelly, says...
5:30pm Wed 15 Nov 06

i say lets get a few hoodies and skin heads together and go to the heath! i know a few who are up for it!

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wayne, says...
10:52am Thu 16 Nov 06

kelly wrote:
i say lets get a few hoodies and skin heads together and go to the heath! i know a few who are up for it!
A ny reader who objects to Kelly's post should contact the Dartford Police Community Safety Officer as incitement to commit acts of violence is a criminal offence.
As for you Kelly, the friends you know that are "up for it" it is a well known fact those that indulge in "queerbashing" have serious doubts about their own sexuality and resort to violence to mask it.

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Michael, says...
10:13am Fri 17 Nov 06

I as a gay man took particular offense to the article in the new shopper that I found actually breaks the law and is an homophobic attack on gay men. I also am appalled by the council spending my council tax money - trying to catch 'perverts' (men who are doing something that is completely legal now - you can ask george michael about hamstead if you need specific quotes, to try to catch someone and report it to the police. What are they going to report, someone was doing something that is legal? The council might as well put up speed cameras as well to catch people driving below the speed limit!

I have written formal complaints to the council about their mis appropriation of money, time, etc... when there are far more pressing issues they are ignoring.

Let a few closet men have their satisifaction. If they were getting it at home, they would not be in the bushes as most of these are married and it is only their wives complaining because it is their own kids who would see daddy up to something!

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Sandra, says...
1:38pm Fri 17 Nov 06

Sorry Michael, are you actually saying that it is legal for people to have sex and/or perform sexual acts in public? I'm not a policeman but I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that!




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eva, says...
12:15am Sat 18 Nov 06

To be honest, I have been to the heath and I must say that I saw couples of all sexual orientations. I saw some teenagers out and about in the heath, displaying to all their sexual preferences. Referring this only to homosexuals is wrong. Dartford Heath is not the only place where this kind of thing is going on. Go to any place in dartford where there is a tree, and you are most surely going to find one couple. Dartford Park is littered with them. Rather than simply trying to 'catch' people in the act, why not try and prevent them from doing it in the first place, and by 'them' I mean teenagers and adults alike, heterosexuals and homosexuals. As there are also teenagers in the heath doing this, maybe there are some more problems to address than have been raised in this short, seemingly one-sided, argument.

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gary, says...
7:05pm Sat 18 Nov 06

gay people are not allways perverts but if they want to have sex in front of people that is pervy and the only reason they dont have gay sex in doors is because their wifes sons and daughters proberly wouldent like it..

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Vincent Bate, says...
8:47am Mon 20 Nov 06

This debate seems to have been hijacked by the militant homosexual lobby. Just because homosexuality is legal and tolerated in this society, it doesn`t follow that the greater majority of the population wants to witness rampant promiscuity in our public spaces. Dartford Heath is for everyone, not just a selfish and deviant minority, who have political correctness and the liberal intelligentsia backing their disgusting behaviour. Call me a homophobe (what a nonsensical word, by the way) all you like, this behaviour is unnacceptable.

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tom, says...
11:45pm Mon 20 Nov 06

i used to live in dartford, but now live in japan and i think i have found a solution for the "heath problem". in japan they have wonderful things called love hotels. these are places where couples can go discreetly to have sex, without ever being discovered by their parents, wivfes, husbands, boyfriends, girlfriends etc. A great way to solve the problem of the heath and a great potential money earner. especially in today's society when affairs are ever increasing!

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Chris Poynton, says...
1:29pm Wed 22 Nov 06

I'm all for it. I like nothing better than to visit the woods. Leave us alone to express ourselves in peace...

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Dan Jones, says...
1:50pm Wed 22 Nov 06

I like to join Chris too but if the Police catch us then my partner may find out about us.

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Bill rollin, says...
1:54pm Wed 22 Nov 06

I am not bothered as long as I use protection. If people want to look then I may even smile while im at it!

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Paul Macmillan, says...
1:56pm Wed 22 Nov 06

Gay Rights for the heath. Ooooohhh. I thought I was the only gay in the village

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sam, says...
2:36pm Mon 27 Nov 06

Dartford Heath is a massive area. The nearest residents are not even in the vicinity of where the cruising takes place. The residents have plenty of space to walk their dogs and children, without coming anywhere near to where this activity is taking place. There is a huge football pitch between the houses, and another area 2- times the size where I expect they whinge about people flying model aeroplanes. I find it hard to believe that any person would want to walk their dogs or children in an area where lorries thunder past, or even consider being in this area at night with no street lighting.
Everyone please, accept it, this cruising WILL NOT go away, this area has been frequented by men for the last 40 years. If you want it to stop you would have to cut ALL the trees down. Even the homophobic actions of the police shining torches into the trees has not stopped this, nor did the actions of youths last summer who committed several attacks. They were all caught and punished. I sincerely feel that the News shopper should show more concentration on other topics instead of using their wide scope audience to focus on something which as I state before has been going on for years.

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sam, says...
2:47pm Mon 27 Nov 06

Also I am a gay man and I see heterosexual couples kissing in the street, making love in their cars – yes “lovers lane” hence the term. Women lying topless on beaches, Guys and yes girls too, urinating in the streets, after a night out on the town, girls walking round with next to nothing on, am I offended no not really, do I feel I need to make an issue of it – no. its life. Just accept it.
guys fondling in full view of everyone – yes I wouldn’t want to see that, so I guess that’s why these guys up here take the cover of the trees, out of sight of the public. If people know this is going on there, then I hardly think its wise to go walking through the trees trying to encounter this activity. Avoid the area, and you will avoid the issue of being offended. That’s why the guys here avoid doing it in view of the public.
sam

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sam, says...
2:51pm Mon 27 Nov 06

And finally,
You can waste tax payers money, flood the place with police and council vans, but I can assure you – this WILL NOT stop the cruising. Cut all the trees down is the only way, and that is not going to happen.

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girl, says...
10:39pm Tue 28 Nov 06

it says in the bible man who sleeps with a man like a woman should be put to death. i dont think its right but theres still a chance to turn around what your doing cant make you happy.

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sam, says...
12:04am Wed 29 Nov 06

the church is full of gay peados, always in the news those stories

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Sarah, says...
5:15pm Mon 4 Dec 06

I know that sites like www.Adult-XXX-Sex.co.uk keep guys up to date with the latest Dogging info.

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concerned mother, says...
12:14pm Wed 6 Dec 06

iPikTom wrote:
why cant these people go to their house, its warm, private and legal!
And what happens if we cannot goto our houses? Because our parents don\'t wish us to have sex with the same sex under their roof ??
it is not right to have sex on the streets or woods or heath.if you cant do it at home under your parents roof get your own place or at least go to a hotel.keep it off the streets

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sam, says...
3:48pm Fri 8 Dec 06

ok, then all you residents that want to walk your dogs up there, let your dogs crap in your own gardens not up our heath or on pavement - yes you know you do it !!!!!!!!!!!!!

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annastasia beaverhousen, says...
3:29pm Fri 15 Dec 06

Vincent Bate wrote:
This debate seems to have been hijacked by the militant homosexual lobby. Just because homosexuality is legal and tolerated in this society, it doesn`t follow that the greater majority of the population wants to witness rampant promiscuity in our public spaces. Dartford Heath is for everyone, not just a selfish and deviant minority, who have political correctness and the liberal intelligentsia backing their disgusting behaviour. Call me a homophobe (what a nonsensical word, by the way) all you like, this behaviour is unnacceptable.
I find your comments completely homophobic. I also find them disgusting. I suppose that you have the same views about race, disability, gender etc

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steve, london says...
8:03am Fri 2 Feb 07

After just having read most of the comments im starting to doubt that any of these parents have actually been to dartford heath.....so far nobody has even mentioned the scrambler motorbikes with demented youths on that race around the woodland......are mothers not worried about these hitting and killing their child??? I'd assume that is far worse than what they could possibly see. Also I cant see why the council cant advertise this as a safe area for females to walk their pets.....plenty of men around to protect them who are not remotly interested and a large police and council prescence.
I also agree that there are a few people here that should be prosecuted with "inciting racial hatred"!

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Boy..., Dartford says...
8:11am Fri 2 Feb 07

I am sure that the dog walkers will agree, the amount of illegal scrambler biking which is practiced on the heath is more of a danger to children, pets and wildlife. It seems the Daily Mail readers of Dartford have not got anything better to do that patrol the heath looking for homosexuals. Is this a witch hunt against gays. That, or they are jealous that the someone else is getting attention that they seriously lack. Sexuality is one of the fundemental parts of our human make up.
I am sure the council could work together with the local groups to provide a soultion, the council seem to throw money at mobile camera units.
If you do not like what you see then go to a different part of the heath. It is a large area. From what i have witnessed the areas used by men for sex are quite isolated. Having viewed the area myself I was alarmed at the amount of Straight pornographic material found.
Can we all just not live and let live.

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dave, kent says...
10:50pm Sat 10 Feb 07

Quote: There simply is no correct or so called ‘PC’ answer to this moral problem. Actually there is. Firstly the act of two homosexuals meeting in public is not illigal. So the fact that the council are using a van as a means of harrassement is wrong and undermines the sexual offences act of 2003. What is sex in public? If the right amount of effort has been taken to hide then is this sex in public? If you go looking for it and find it, does that mean the you are the voyeur. The way to deal with this problem is easy. Firstly communciate with the cruising and dogging people. Asking them nicely with respect, might get more of a result rather than bully tatics. Have tolerance zones that are still policed , so as to maintian respect and to protect a venrable part of our community. Some cruising areas in out of the way places are being closed by the highways agencies, these should be left open. Most of them are only reachable by car and have no residences near by. Closing an area does not solve the problem , it just moves it on. Remember some of these people that use these places are lonely and isolated. Sex might be first reason they go there, but the answer is they end up with company, support and a network of friends. Some people that use these places can be indiscret but if you talked to people that use these areas, some or most are self policed and offenders are reminded by fellow users of respect to others. Some will pick up the litter, and some keep in touch with the police. If this matter was managed, Pam would be able to walk her dog freely and unhindered, and Mr and Mrs who-ever can enjoy a wonderful and varied sex life that is keeping them happy. Communication in this matter, like I mention before really would help solves this. The Police , Councils and Highways agencies need to talk to each other and reopen some of the old closed places. Its the concenration in the places that are still open that has caused this problem. Also closing all of them will just incite the start of new areas. Some cruising areas have a history spaning decades. They worked all those years with no problems. If aint broke, dont fix it.Cruisers need there cars as they are means of protection and means of getting away quickly. If you really want to solves this matter. Contact your local Police station, Ask where the old crusing areas were, if you find that they are in isolated areas , request to keep get them open.Your area cleared and free police time for serious crime. Biff baff, Im tempted, but I wont, bouf, problem solved for Dartford Heath. Councils are about enviroment not morality.And stop calling Gay people perverts. Its not nice.

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