Erith School treated autistic boy unfairly because of disability tribunal rules (From News Shopper)
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Erith School treated autistic boy unfairly because of disability tribunal rules
4:31pm Tuesday 18th December 2012 in News By Tim MacFarlan, Bexley and north Kent reporter
Max Simmons was treated unfairly by his school according to a tribunal.
AN AUTISTIC boy was treated unfairly by his Erith secondary school for being disabled, according to a tribunal ruling.
Max Simmons, aged 12, still studies at Erith School in Avenue Road but is looking to move after a special educational needs and disability tribunal decided the school had treated him "unfavourably".
The Myrtle Close resident, who has Asperger’s Syndrome and ADHD, was branded a "naughty child" by the school for his challenging behaviour including swearing, shouting out in class and refusing to obey teachers.
He was frequently sent to work on his own in a punishment room called a Behaviour Improvement Centre (BIC).
However, in February and March he was excluded for 16 straight days after refusing to visit the BIC as punishment for an unfounded physical assault allegation against a teacher.
His mum Ruth Simmons says Erith School remains ill-equipped to deal with her son’s difficulties.
She said: "We feel like we have cleared our name and proved they are in the wrong and not us.
"Max has been made to feel he can help everything he’s been doing and that he’s just a nuisance.
"It’s a relief there’s somebody saying the school was in the wrong."
The 47-year-old full-time mother-of-two added: "It’s not all terrible with the school but there’s just not this understanding with staff in general.
"You can have autistic children who are very quiet but Max does need a lot of extra help."
The inedpendent tribunal panel said the school "treated Max unfavourably because of something arising from his disability" in its decision last month.
The exclusion was ruled to be "disproportionate" and the use of the BIC "not appropriate to address or modify Max’s behaviour".
Headteacher Julie Turner said in a statement: "My staff and I work extremely hard to build strong and positive relationships with our parents and it is always disappointing to find a parent is unhappy with the provision made for their child.
"Erith School has a very good reputation for the good progress that we make, especially with pupils with special educational needs and disabilities."
Comments(95)
Concern56
says...
7:51pm Tue 18 Dec 12
What about the other students? By being disruptive and naughty he is ruining the education of other children. He shouldn't have been in mainstream education in the first place.
Also, what about fairness? If a pupil does something wrong and refuses to follow the rules he should be punished. All pupils should follow the same set of rules.While I accept that Mr Simmons is disabled, and some account should be taken for this, it doesn't prevent the rules being applied to him.
Finally, what is his mother doing parading his case through the papers? It seems unfair to Mr Simmons that his mother is seeking to publicise this. Mr Simmons could be labeled as a trouble maker.
The tribunal in this case is wrong, and I hope that the school challenges this ruling. If I was a member of staff at the school I would refuse to teach this child for fear of damaging my career.
sparky123
says...
8:14pm Tue 18 Dec 12
reptiles
says...
8:25pm Tue 18 Dec 12
On another note Bexleyheath school (as it was called) do have an SEN unit ( or used to) as do i think most schools and they do cater for ADHD and Aspergers children, maybe in the case above it was the tutors that were with that child that couldnt cope. All staff working with SEN kids should have various amounts of training. Nto every SEN child is the same - infact they are all very different in the individual needs.
Gallivan
says...
9:08pm Tue 18 Dec 12
Concern56
says...
9:26pm Tue 18 Dec 12
Would you be Mrs Simmons, perhaps?
Assault is broad term.
Also, so you are saying Mr Simmons was punished for nothing then?
lollie,erith
says...
9:34pm Tue 18 Dec 12
Gallivan
says...
9:57pm Tue 18 Dec 12
Concern56
says...
10:29pm Tue 18 Dec 12
Gallivan, how would your son know the intricate details of a SEN hearing and the process of getting a statement? A bit far fetched.
lollie, it would appear that you know a lot about the case, or should I say Gallivan.
Gallivan
says...
10:37pm Tue 18 Dec 12
Yes I do know a lot myself about schools I am a TA me and the other lady seemed to know what we are talking about thank you
lollie,erith
says...
10:38pm Tue 18 Dec 12
lollie,erith
says...
10:47pm Tue 18 Dec 12
Gallivan
says...
10:50pm Tue 18 Dec 12
tracyp
says...
2:23am Wed 19 Dec 12
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott
says...
8:30am Wed 19 Dec 12
The old saying, 'Spare the rod and spoil the child', has never been as relevant as it is in this present day and age.
lollie,erith
says...
9:38am Wed 19 Dec 12
PaulErith
says...
9:50am Wed 19 Dec 12
When he refused to go, they excluded him. Again, seems reasonable to me.
I don't really see that this child is a victim in any way. I feel sorry for the teachers and other students that have to put up with children that behave in a negative and disruptive way in the classroom.
the wall
says...
10:23am Wed 19 Dec 12
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:To right! It's a label given to kids so the parent/s feel their kid is special and stop nagging everyone and blaming everything else but themself. When really is a failure of the parent/s.
There is no such thing as ADHD. It's just a convenient label given to kids who are constantly naughty but lack suitable parents to dish out some good old-fashioned discipline.
The old saying, 'Spare the rod and spoil the child', has never been as relevant as it is in this present day and age.
I heard one the other day about a kid that has an extra 10 minutes breaktime to calm down then they go back to class.
rarecockneyguvnor
says...
10:37am Wed 19 Dec 12
All this ADHD etc nonsense, we never heard of it years ago, you got ya arse wacked when you misbehaved.
PaulErith
says...
11:24am Wed 19 Dec 12
the wall wrote:Agreed. Years ago, a kid that misbehaved was branded 'naughty' or 'badly behaved'. Now it seems that there has to be a medical name given to it to, in some way, take the blame away from the child themself. It has become politically incorrect to label a child 'naughty', which in my opinion, is ridiculous.
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote: There is no such thing as ADHD. It's just a convenient label given to kids who are constantly naughty but lack suitable parents to dish out some good old-fashioned discipline. The old saying, 'Spare the rod and spoil the child', has never been as relevant as it is in this present day and age.To right! It's a label given to kids so the parent/s feel their kid is special and stop nagging everyone and blaming everything else but themself. When really is a failure of the parent/s. I heard one the other day about a kid that has an extra 10 minutes breaktime to calm down then they go back to class.
Gypo.Joe
says...
11:31am Wed 19 Dec 12
An attitude adjustment from his father, if there is one around even.
Tip-Top
says...
12:22pm Wed 19 Dec 12
I have family members who are teachers in and around Bexley and they tell me constantly of similar behavioural stories, whereby they cannot teach the other children, due to another individual causing “problems”.
This is a problem for the parents and authorities to deal with and from what I can gather and for whatever reason, not a lot is done to support those teachers who want to teach and those students who want to actually learn.
lollie,erith
says...
2:05pm Wed 19 Dec 12
Dartbored
says...
4:35pm Wed 19 Dec 12
Intriguing that a medical condition can appear that didn’t exist 30 years ago.
Obviously, I can’t comment on this case, but I have met a few children who have been labelled with ADHD and in each and every case, the kid has just been naughty. Simple as that. No great medical diagnosis or treatment required. They’re just little sh!ts, who unfortunately have not received appropriate parenting.
I’m a parent and I see examples of poor parenting all the time. Bad behaviour written off with quotes like “Oh, you know what boys are like” or “Oh well, he is only 5” as their kid wallops someone else in the face.
Too many parents see their kids as “friends” and have no boundaries. Too many parents don’t want to discipline, as they don’t want to upset their kids. A friend of ours has an 18 month old girl and the other day, dad gently told her off about something (1st time I’d seen that happen) – the kid started crying and Mum shouted at Dad “See look what you’ve done now, you know she doesn’t like being told off.”
Says it all really.
Concern56
says...
5:43pm Wed 19 Dec 12
1) Nobody has seen a copy of the judgment. It's not available online. All we have is the say so of Mrs Simmons and the journalist. It could be easily said that this article is very one sided. Considering any legal process is likely be acrimonious, taking one side in this case is both unfair and illiberal.
2) Are people seriously saying that the school is lying about Mr Simmons making a false allegation against a teacher? This makes no sense. There is a extremely formal process for this. A teacher is suspended pending further investigation. It's one of the things that schools takes very seriously. I highly doubt that Mr Simmons is innocent of this. Also, the article said the exclusion was 'disproportionate' not that he didn't make the accusation.
3) Also, the convoluted and highly illiterate statements made by some about Max's statement of educational needs don't really hold water. A child getting a statement is a bonus for a school, as it effectively places the decisions about a child's education in the hands of the LEA. Therefore, all a school has to do is prove that it can't meet the needs of a child, then the council has an obligation to move them on to somewhere that can. Also, additional finance is available. Statements are very hard to come by, as they cost money. If a school can get one for a difficult child, it will!!!
I also question the role of Mrs Simmons in this whole affair, if, as other commentators have indicated, there are other proceedings still going on regarding Mr Simmon's education, then why has she gone to the paper? It show contempt for the justice system and, to my mind, an attempt to damage the reputation of the school.
Marty1979
says...
7:44pm Wed 19 Dec 12
So the parents/friends can make whatever comments they like knowing they won't be contradicted
catz48
says...
8:45pm Wed 19 Dec 12
reptiles wrote:as a sen teacher agree with everything you say
personally i fell if the child has ADHD & Aspergers why did the authority not find a special school for him rather than mainstream. Woodside school is for Autistic children, why did he not go to that school where the staff are prepared for such incident. I think its the only senior school in the borough. Plus as a parent of an Autistic child ( adult now) i would not want my child to go to mainstream exactly for that reason. I have been an SEN LSA in a primary school, working with such kids,but really feel sometimes a mainstream school is not the place for them - depending on the individual child of course! I am certainly not sticking up for parent or school, but does the child have a statement of special needs, if so then the school would have had a copy and should have got the correct staffing in and support for the individual child.
On another note Bexleyheath school (as it was called) do have an SEN unit ( or used to) as do i think most schools and they do cater for ADHD and Aspergers children, maybe in the case above it was the tutors that were with that child that couldnt cope. All staff working with SEN kids should have various amounts of training. Nto every SEN child is the same - infact they are all very different in the individual needs.
catz48
says...
8:48pm Wed 19 Dec 12
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:Please could you stop trying to stir things up on here and different websites you are getting very boring now
There is no such thing as ADHD. It's just a convenient label given to kids who are constantly naughty but lack suitable parents to dish out some good old-fashioned discipline.
The old saying, 'Spare the rod and spoil the child', has never been as relevant as it is in this present day and age.
lollie,erith
says...
9:00pm Wed 19 Dec 12
concern56 the journalist will not print and quote details from a Tribunal paper without seeing it first.
The member of staff did admit to verbal abuse. The child did not use the word 'assault' in his statement and therefore did not accuse the staff member of assault.This person was not suspended from working. It isnt a bonus that the school gets a statemented child as the school has to meet the first 15 hours out of their own budget so you will find, if you look into this before you comment, that it has been felt schools do not apply for them as they cost money. People need to brush up on their knowledge. The govt give extra funding to schools that accept children with a diagnosis ie aspergers. The school has made a statement to the press and is not prevented from any comment. As for contempt of court, Tribunals are not held in a court and their content can be discussed or disclosed to anyone as it has been finalised. The Judge spends the duration of the Tribunal listening to both sides, who are given the opportunity to submit additional evidence etc. It is impartial and miss simmons feels not only was the Judgement fair, but it unearthed other failings that have affected not just her child, but other children.
lollie,erith
says...
9:10pm Wed 19 Dec 12
Concern56
says...
9:30pm Wed 19 Dec 12
Assault covers a whole range of actions. Hit, punch, slap and even threaten can be described as assault, legally speaking. You don't understand the concept.
Also, could you post a link to the Tribunal Decision? I am not simply going to take your word for it. As for the article not being biased, Journalists have limited time, no restrictions on what they print and a willingness to follow a good narrative. On reading other decisions, I find they are long and unwieldy. They are easy to got wrong.
What you said about the statement is true, but it misses the point I am trying to make. With a statement a child is easier to move on. Simple.
Also, as for the comment about a school being able to say what they like, I think you'll find that discussing a child with a disability in the press is clearly not ethical or based on common sense. Also, there may be some data protection issues.
moneycass
says...
9:34pm Wed 19 Dec 12
And if I were a parent of a child in the same class as Max, I think I would consider that the School had failed my child and others in the class by not allowing them a safe and secure learning environment without the distraction of ONE badly behaved pupil. What’s more, I bet he is causing even more disruption now that his mother has probably told him that they have ‘won’. He will think he is untouchable!
The sooner Max is found a place in another school, albeit that it may be a ‘special’ school, the better!
It's Me again !
says...
10:05pm Wed 19 Dec 12
lollie,erith
says...
10:45pm Wed 19 Dec 12
reptiles
says...
9:26am Thu 20 Dec 12
lollie,erith wrote:Your comment woodside is not suitable - why they take children with all sorts of learning disability as well as on the ASD spectrum, once the child has a statement, which if hes been told he is ADHD he should have had at primary school, then the school will take him as they do not jstu take children with 1 specific disability, as long as the child has a statement of SEN then they should accept him - its an Autistic school so why would they refuse him?
no allegation of assault was made by the child. the school excluded him 'for making a serious false allegation of assault'. therefore the exclusion was unlawful. it was also unlawful under Dept of Education guidelines. there have been a large number of incidents against the child which have been admitted by the school which could not be dealt with by the Disability Tribunal. The parent has applied for Statementwhich has been successful and is awaiting a suitable school. Woodside is not suitable as the child does not meet their criteria. The Judge has stated Erith School needs to train their staff and points out that their policies are inadequate and require the school to review their behaviour and disciplinary policies. It is not suggested anywhere that the child should not have any punishment but those punishments 'meet a legitimate aim' and not mis-used.
toomush2drink
says...
9:39am Thu 20 Dec 12
I have experienced first hand this type of behaviour first hand as someone in our family was labelled with it.He got in trouble at school on a regular basis to the point where they had to move him away from other kids to prevent further incidents.
It was only after visting these long distance relatatives and spending time with him how obvious it was just bad behaviour and a lack of a male role model for him.
Only a week of rules being enforced and a change of diet saw his behaviour improve massively.Just giving him some attention and doing activities with hims helped too unlike his mother who spent most of time on her blackberry texting and moaning about her lot..
We didnt let him constantly watch tv as a replacement babysitter we spent TIME with him.
Unfortunately now he is in care because his mother couldnt be bothered to change her attitude as it was easier to hide behind the adhd label.
The proof is that now he is with a good foster family he is doing well and not misbehaving at school.
Next time you are out look at how many parents are walking along texting whilst ignoring their offspring requiring attention in a parental role.
reptiles
says...
9:50am Thu 20 Dec 12
the wall wrote:oh so you are both medical professionals are you?? how can you say there is no such thing as ADHD - if you have had to live with it either in the home or workplace then you would understand - please educate yourselves and look up ADHD or Apsergers, its a rather complex mental disorder - yes i use the word mental which a lot of people do not like. In the 70-80s naughty kids as you put it were just classed as naughty because there was not enough research in the UK .They have complex needs and have problems understanding the world around them - they live in a bubble for want of a better word, its not the fault of the parenting or the child, but they way the brain has turned out - making it a mental health problem - shame people do not understand mental health problems or issues. May i suggest that the likes of you to go and visit places where they help children and adults with mental health issues and maybe you just might see things differently!
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:To right! It's a label given to kids so the parent/s feel their kid is special and stop nagging everyone and blaming everything else but themself. When really is a failure of the parent/s.
There is no such thing as ADHD. It's just a convenient label given to kids who are constantly naughty but lack suitable parents to dish out some good old-fashioned discipline.
The old saying, 'Spare the rod and spoil the child', has never been as relevant as it is in this present day and age.
I heard one the other day about a kid that has an extra 10 minutes breaktime to calm down then they go back to class.
thought you may need a bit of education yourselves! read here!!!
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Attention_d
eficit_hyperactivity
_disorder
http://www.netdoctor
.co.uk/adhd/whatisad
hd.htm
ADHD stands for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. It’s thought to be caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain that affects the parts controlling attention, concentration and impulsivity.
Read more: http://www.netdoctor
.co.uk/adhd/whatisad
hd.htm#ixzz2FaHa1aWy
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott
says...
10:34am Thu 20 Dec 12
reptiles wrote:Complete and utter nonsense. If you are silly enough to believe the ADHD myth then more fool you.
the wall wrote:oh so you are both medical professionals are you?? how can you say there is no such thing as ADHD - if you have had to live with it either in the home or workplace then you would understand - please educate yourselves and look up ADHD or Apsergers, its a rather complex mental disorder - yes i use the word mental which a lot of people do not like. In the 70-80s naughty kids as you put it were just classed as naughty because there was not enough research in the UK .They have complex needs and have problems understanding the world around them - they live in a bubble for want of a better word, its not the fault of the parenting or the child, but they way the brain has turned out - making it a mental health problem - shame people do not understand mental health problems or issues. May i suggest that the likes of you to go and visit places where they help children and adults with mental health issues and maybe you just might see things differently!
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:To right! It's a label given to kids so the parent/s feel their kid is special and stop nagging everyone and blaming everything else but themself. When really is a failure of the parent/s.
There is no such thing as ADHD. It's just a convenient label given to kids who are constantly naughty but lack suitable parents to dish out some good old-fashioned discipline.
The old saying, 'Spare the rod and spoil the child', has never been as relevant as it is in this present day and age.
I heard one the other day about a kid that has an extra 10 minutes breaktime to calm down then they go back to class.
thought you may need a bit of education yourselves! read here!!!
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Attention_d
eficit_hyperactivity
_disorder
http://www.netdoctor
.co.uk/adhd/whatisad
hd.htm
ADHD stands for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. It’s thought to be caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain that affects the parts controlling attention, concentration and impulsivity.
Read more: http://www.netdoctor
.co.uk/adhd/whatisad
hd.htm#ixzz2FaHa1aWy
I daresay you are one of those parents who believes in the naughty step and asking your kids to 'please don't do that, darling', instead of telling them straight to behave or else.
Believe me, children are like wild animals who have to be trained how to behave. Dogs, cats, chimps, foxes, gorillas etc all use discipline to train their offspring. If you don't then you are not only fighting nature but you are also failing society as a whole.
A stern word and a clip round the ear never hurt anyone.
Wikipedia? You must be joking.
Tip-Top
says...
10:39am Thu 20 Dec 12
Dartbored
says...
10:40am Thu 20 Dec 12
reptiles wrote:I have no doubt that there is an autism spectrum and that children do have different levels of hyperactivity - my son has always been a "challenge" from around the age of 10 months.
the wall wrote:oh so you are both medical professionals are you?? how can you say there is no such thing as ADHD - if you have had to live with it either in the home or workplace then you would understand - please educate yourselves and look up ADHD or Apsergers, its a rather complex mental disorder - yes i use the word mental which a lot of people do not like. In the 70-80s naughty kids as you put it were just classed as naughty because there was not enough research in the UK .They have complex needs and have problems understanding the world around them - they live in a bubble for want of a better word, its not the fault of the parenting or the child, but they way the brain has turned out - making it a mental health problem - shame people do not understand mental health problems or issues. May i suggest that the likes of you to go and visit places where they help children and adults with mental health issues and maybe you just might see things differently!
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:To right! It's a label given to kids so the parent/s feel their kid is special and stop nagging everyone and blaming everything else but themself. When really is a failure of the parent/s.
There is no such thing as ADHD. It's just a convenient label given to kids who are constantly naughty but lack suitable parents to dish out some good old-fashioned discipline.
The old saying, 'Spare the rod and spoil the child', has never been as relevant as it is in this present day and age.
I heard one the other day about a kid that has an extra 10 minutes breaktime to calm down then they go back to class.
thought you may need a bit of education yourselves! read here!!!
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Attention_d
eficit_hyperactivity
_disorder
http://www.netdoctor
.co.uk/adhd/whatisad
hd.htm
ADHD stands for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. It’s thought to be caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain that affects the parts controlling attention, concentration and impulsivity.
Read more: http://www.netdoctor
.co.uk/adhd/whatisad
hd.htm#ixzz2FaHa1aWy
BUT - we haven't labelled him, we've just got on with being parents, knowing that we've probably had our work cut out more than some other parents.
It's been exhausting at times and mentally draining, we have had to be very disciplined with him, far more than most of his peers, but now, at the age of six all the hard work seems to be paying off and he is now impeccably behaved at school as he knows his boundaries, respects authority and knows the word "no".
Plenty of other parents would have said he had ADHD. He doesn't, he is just a very lively, energetic kid who needed tough love and discipline.
As I've already said, I know children who have been given the label ADHD and there's no medical condition, they're just livley children who's parents don't know how to cope.
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott
says...
10:49am Thu 20 Dec 12
Dartbored wrote:Well said and well done.
reptiles wrote:I have no doubt that there is an autism spectrum and that children do have different levels of hyperactivity - my son has always been a "challenge" from around the age of 10 months.
the wall wrote:oh so you are both medical professionals are you?? how can you say there is no such thing as ADHD - if you have had to live with it either in the home or workplace then you would understand - please educate yourselves and look up ADHD or Apsergers, its a rather complex mental disorder - yes i use the word mental which a lot of people do not like. In the 70-80s naughty kids as you put it were just classed as naughty because there was not enough research in the UK .They have complex needs and have problems understanding the world around them - they live in a bubble for want of a better word, its not the fault of the parenting or the child, but they way the brain has turned out - making it a mental health problem - shame people do not understand mental health problems or issues. May i suggest that the likes of you to go and visit places where they help children and adults with mental health issues and maybe you just might see things differently!
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:To right! It's a label given to kids so the parent/s feel their kid is special and stop nagging everyone and blaming everything else but themself. When really is a failure of the parent/s.
There is no such thing as ADHD. It's just a convenient label given to kids who are constantly naughty but lack suitable parents to dish out some good old-fashioned discipline.
The old saying, 'Spare the rod and spoil the child', has never been as relevant as it is in this present day and age.
I heard one the other day about a kid that has an extra 10 minutes breaktime to calm down then they go back to class.
thought you may need a bit of education yourselves! read here!!!
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Attention_d
eficit_hyperactivity
_disorder
http://www.netdoctor
.co.uk/adhd/whatisad
hd.htm
ADHD stands for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. It’s thought to be caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain that affects the parts controlling attention, concentration and impulsivity.
Read more: http://www.netdoctor
.co.uk/adhd/whatisad
hd.htm#ixzz2FaHa1aWy
BUT - we haven't labelled him, we've just got on with being parents, knowing that we've probably had our work cut out more than some other parents.
It's been exhausting at times and mentally draining, we have had to be very disciplined with him, far more than most of his peers, but now, at the age of six all the hard work seems to be paying off and he is now impeccably behaved at school as he knows his boundaries, respects authority and knows the word "no".
Plenty of other parents would have said he had ADHD. He doesn't, he is just a very lively, energetic kid who needed tough love and discipline.
As I've already said, I know children who have been given the label ADHD and there's no medical condition, they're just livley children who's parents don't know how to cope.
reptiles
says...
11:12am Thu 20 Dec 12
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:no never used the naughty step as it didnt work - but saying NO to a child just makes then want to do things more! These children with Austism and other complex special needs like learning disabilities need to know and understand why you are telling no. as the old saying goes to negatives do NOT make a positive. Be positive in the 1st place and they learn!
reptiles wrote:Complete and utter nonsense. If you are silly enough to believe the ADHD myth then more fool you.
the wall wrote:oh so you are both medical professionals are you?? how can you say there is no such thing as ADHD - if you have had to live with it either in the home or workplace then you would understand - please educate yourselves and look up ADHD or Apsergers, its a rather complex mental disorder - yes i use the word mental which a lot of people do not like. In the 70-80s naughty kids as you put it were just classed as naughty because there was not enough research in the UK .They have complex needs and have problems understanding the world around them - they live in a bubble for want of a better word, its not the fault of the parenting or the child, but they way the brain has turned out - making it a mental health problem - shame people do not understand mental health problems or issues. May i suggest that the likes of you to go and visit places where they help children and adults with mental health issues and maybe you just might see things differently!
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:To right! It's a label given to kids so the parent/s feel their kid is special and stop nagging everyone and blaming everything else but themself. When really is a failure of the parent/s.
There is no such thing as ADHD. It's just a convenient label given to kids who are constantly naughty but lack suitable parents to dish out some good old-fashioned discipline.
The old saying, 'Spare the rod and spoil the child', has never been as relevant as it is in this present day and age.
I heard one the other day about a kid that has an extra 10 minutes breaktime to calm down then they go back to class.
thought you may need a bit of education yourselves! read here!!!
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Attention_d
eficit_hyperactivity
_disorder
http://www.netdoctor
.co.uk/adhd/whatisad
hd.htm
ADHD stands for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. It’s thought to be caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain that affects the parts controlling attention, concentration and impulsivity.
Read more: http://www.netdoctor
.co.uk/adhd/whatisad
hd.htm#ixzz2FaHa1aWy
I daresay you are one of those parents who believes in the naughty step and asking your kids to 'please don't do that, darling', instead of telling them straight to behave or else.
Believe me, children are like wild animals who have to be trained how to behave. Dogs, cats, chimps, foxes, gorillas etc all use discipline to train their offspring. If you don't then you are not only fighting nature but you are also failing society as a whole.
A stern word and a clip round the ear never hurt anyone.
Wikipedia? You must be joking.
As a mother of an adult with Austism amoungst other disabilities i think i am better placed to understand. Oh and a "clip round the ear" as you put it - thats 1 of the things that can cause brain damage in a child! Wikipedia and NHS sites along with other sites - are you saying they are all talking jibberish??
If you have ever worked with adults or children with disabilities of the mental kind then maybe you would think differently. Not all are naughty as you lot seem to think - some Autisitc, ADHD etc have turned out to be professors etc with the correct help.
You sound like the type of person that if you had a dog and it was misbehaved youd smack it and then expect it to be loyal to you! In the generation of today we know and understand more about humans and animals how to treat and respect them and why they do some of the things they do! Those websites above were just an example.
A clip round the ear is now classed as child abuse for 1 of the reasons i stated above!
Unfortunately the world is full of arrogant people who think a smack, kicking, beating or shouting at does the trick. We have moved on from the 60's and how people were treated! I was taught to respect my elders, and in return i expect them to respect me!
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott
says...
11:34am Thu 20 Dec 12
reptiles wrote:Your comment is a perfect example of why our society is now marred by unruly kids and yobbos who have no respect for others and who have not the slightest idea what NO really means.
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:no never used the naughty step as it didnt work - but saying NO to a child just makes then want to do things more! These children with Austism and other complex special needs like learning disabilities need to know and understand why you are telling no. as the old saying goes to negatives do NOT make a positive. Be positive in the 1st place and they learn!
reptiles wrote:Complete and utter nonsense. If you are silly enough to believe the ADHD myth then more fool you.
the wall wrote:oh so you are both medical professionals are you?? how can you say there is no such thing as ADHD - if you have had to live with it either in the home or workplace then you would understand - please educate yourselves and look up ADHD or Apsergers, its a rather complex mental disorder - yes i use the word mental which a lot of people do not like. In the 70-80s naughty kids as you put it were just classed as naughty because there was not enough research in the UK .They have complex needs and have problems understanding the world around them - they live in a bubble for want of a better word, its not the fault of the parenting or the child, but they way the brain has turned out - making it a mental health problem - shame people do not understand mental health problems or issues. May i suggest that the likes of you to go and visit places where they help children and adults with mental health issues and maybe you just might see things differently!
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:To right! It's a label given to kids so the parent/s feel their kid is special and stop nagging everyone and blaming everything else but themself. When really is a failure of the parent/s.
There is no such thing as ADHD. It's just a convenient label given to kids who are constantly naughty but lack suitable parents to dish out some good old-fashioned discipline.
The old saying, 'Spare the rod and spoil the child', has never been as relevant as it is in this present day and age.
I heard one the other day about a kid that has an extra 10 minutes breaktime to calm down then they go back to class.
thought you may need a bit of education yourselves! read here!!!
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Attention_d
eficit_hyperactivity
_disorder
http://www.netdoctor
.co.uk/adhd/whatisad
hd.htm
ADHD stands for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. It’s thought to be caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain that affects the parts controlling attention, concentration and impulsivity.
Read more: http://www.netdoctor
.co.uk/adhd/whatisad
hd.htm#ixzz2FaHa1aWy
I daresay you are one of those parents who believes in the naughty step and asking your kids to 'please don't do that, darling', instead of telling them straight to behave or else.
Believe me, children are like wild animals who have to be trained how to behave. Dogs, cats, chimps, foxes, gorillas etc all use discipline to train their offspring. If you don't then you are not only fighting nature but you are also failing society as a whole.
A stern word and a clip round the ear never hurt anyone.
Wikipedia? You must be joking.
As a mother of an adult with Austism amoungst other disabilities i think i am better placed to understand. Oh and a "clip round the ear" as you put it - thats 1 of the things that can cause brain damage in a child! Wikipedia and NHS sites along with other sites - are you saying they are all talking jibberish??
If you have ever worked with adults or children with disabilities of the mental kind then maybe you would think differently. Not all are naughty as you lot seem to think - some Autisitc, ADHD etc have turned out to be professors etc with the correct help.
You sound like the type of person that if you had a dog and it was misbehaved youd smack it and then expect it to be loyal to you! In the generation of today we know and understand more about humans and animals how to treat and respect them and why they do some of the things they do! Those websites above were just an example.
A clip round the ear is now classed as child abuse for 1 of the reasons i stated above!
Unfortunately the world is full of arrogant people who think a smack, kicking, beating or shouting at does the trick. We have moved on from the 60's and how people were treated! I was taught to respect my elders, and in return i expect them to respect me!
Well done for being partly responsible for the decline of civilised Britain.
Now go away and eat something suitable for vegans and sanctimonious bores.
Gypo.Joe
says...
11:45am Thu 20 Dec 12
The problem really aint the kids its the morons supposedly raising them.
Tip-Top
says...
11:57am Thu 20 Dec 12
Gypo.Joe
says...
12:03pm Thu 20 Dec 12
Tip-Top
says...
12:13pm Thu 20 Dec 12
I know society has changed with regards to letting your kids play out and I’m not saying that in doing will make kids behave better, but the methods in which we raise our children has caused some to behave in a way that I was not allowed too….basically, doing as you’re told and respecting others.
Gypo.Joe
says...
12:25pm Thu 20 Dec 12
Gypo.Joe
says...
12:26pm Thu 20 Dec 12
Tip-Top
says...
12:39pm Thu 20 Dec 12
Mr_Fandango
says...
12:41pm Thu 20 Dec 12
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:Well theres a suprise your back commenting on things that you have no idea about.
There is no such thing as ADHD. It's just a convenient label given to kids who are constantly naughty but lack suitable parents to dish out some good old-fashioned discipline. The old saying, 'Spare the rod and spoil the child', has never been as relevant as it is in this present day and age.
You clearly are not a doctor because you sit on here all day behind your keyboard and make silly little comments to things you have no idea about.
so please explain to me how you have this full found knoledge.
Back in your day you were smacked whiped and had chalk erasers thrown at you in school for being even slightley naughty or rude in school.
Things have moved on since them days we now try and help the youth of today out as much as possible if they have ADHD theres steps in place to help them out and understand it better not just cane them and let it be done with.
Please next time before you decide to post something sit there and think for a second about what your doing because simply put no body wants to hear your useless dribble!!!!!!!!!
Regards
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott
says...
12:42pm Thu 20 Dec 12
On the other hand, some kids were good at maths while others couldn't put 2 and 2 together to make 4 to save their lives. Some kids were brilliant at wood and metalwork.
By the same token, some kids are more lively, energetic and sporty than others.
Let's stop all this stupid labelling. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses, otherwise we would all be accountants, God forbid!
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott
says...
12:44pm Thu 20 Dec 12
Mr_Fandango wrote:After reading your comment I surmise that you are obviously 'dyslexic' too.
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:Well theres a suprise your back commenting on things that you have no idea about.
There is no such thing as ADHD. It's just a convenient label given to kids who are constantly naughty but lack suitable parents to dish out some good old-fashioned discipline. The old saying, 'Spare the rod and spoil the child', has never been as relevant as it is in this present day and age.
You clearly are not a doctor because you sit on here all day behind your keyboard and make silly little comments to things you have no idea about.
so please explain to me how you have this full found knoledge.
Back in your day you were smacked whiped and had chalk erasers thrown at you in school for being even slightley naughty or rude in school.
Things have moved on since them days we now try and help the youth of today out as much as possible if they have ADHD theres steps in place to help them out and understand it better not just cane them and let it be done with.
Please next time before you decide to post something sit there and think for a second about what your doing because simply put no body wants to hear your useless dribble!!!!!!!!!
Regards
Oh, and I think you meant 'drivel', not 'dribble'.
Your grade: D-
Mr_Fandango
says...
12:50pm Thu 20 Dec 12
As you allways seem to like to say wheres your proof on this.
You have none what so ever so as i pointed out before please try and keep your worthless DRIBBLE to your self.
Merry christmas
PaulErith
says...
12:58pm Thu 20 Dec 12
reptiles wrote:I agree with some of what you say, and don't think that hitting a child is the answer. However, I don't think going too far the other way works either. Generally, you can't reason with a child. If they're being naughty, the way to stop it is to make a threat and carry that through. I remember when I was a kid being told that if I carried on misbehaving then I wouldn't be allowed to play on my Commorde 64 the next day (show my age). I ignored the threat, but my parents carried it out. Similar to an animal, it's conditioning. Next time the same threat was made, I behaved because I didn't like the punishment.
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:no never used the naughty step as it didnt work - but saying NO to a child just makes then want to do things more! These children with Austism and other complex special needs like learning disabilities need to know and understand why you are telling no. as the old saying goes to negatives do NOT make a positive. Be positive in the 1st place and they learn! As a mother of an adult with Austism amoungst other disabilities i think i am better placed to understand. Oh and a "clip round the ear" as you put it - thats 1 of the things that can cause brain damage in a child! Wikipedia and NHS sites along with other sites - are you saying they are all talking jibberish?? If you have ever worked with adults or children with disabilities of the mental kind then maybe you would think differently. Not all are naughty as you lot seem to think - some Autisitc, ADHD etc have turned out to be professors etc with the correct help. You sound like the type of person that if you had a dog and it was misbehaved youd smack it and then expect it to be loyal to you! In the generation of today we know and understand more about humans and animals how to treat and respect them and why they do some of the things they do! Those websites above were just an example. A clip round the ear is now classed as child abuse for 1 of the reasons i stated above! Unfortunately the world is full of arrogant people who think a smack, kicking, beating or shouting at does the trick. We have moved on from the 60's and how people were treated! I was taught to respect my elders, and in return i expect them to respect me!reptiles wrote:Complete and utter nonsense. If you are silly enough to believe the ADHD myth then more fool you. I daresay you are one of those parents who believes in the naughty step and asking your kids to 'please don't do that, darling', instead of telling them straight to behave or else. Believe me, children are like wild animals who have to be trained how to behave. Dogs, cats, chimps, foxes, gorillas etc all use discipline to train their offspring. If you don't then you are not only fighting nature but you are also failing society as a whole. A stern word and a clip round the ear never hurt anyone. Wikipedia? You must be joking.the wall wrote:oh so you are both medical professionals are you?? how can you say there is no such thing as ADHD - if you have had to live with it either in the home or workplace then you would understand - please educate yourselves and look up ADHD or Apsergers, its a rather complex mental disorder - yes i use the word mental which a lot of people do not like. In the 70-80s naughty kids as you put it were just classed as naughty because there was not enough research in the UK .They have complex needs and have problems understanding the world around them - they live in a bubble for want of a better word, its not the fault of the parenting or the child, but they way the brain has turned out - making it a mental health problem - shame people do not understand mental health problems or issues. May i suggest that the likes of you to go and visit places where they help children and adults with mental health issues and maybe you just might see things differently! thought you may need a bit of education yourselves! read here!!! http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Attention_d eficit_hyperactivity _disorder http://www.netdoctor .co.uk/adhd/whatisad hd.htm ADHD stands for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. It’s thought to be caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain that affects the parts controlling attention, concentration and impulsivity. Read more: http://www.netdoctor .co.uk/adhd/whatisad hd.htm#ixzz2FaHa1aWyLord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote: There is no such thing as ADHD. It's just a convenient label given to kids who are constantly naughty but lack suitable parents to dish out some good old-fashioned discipline. The old saying, 'Spare the rod and spoil the child', has never been as relevant as it is in this present day and age.To right! It's a label given to kids so the parent/s feel their kid is special and stop nagging everyone and blaming everything else but themself. When really is a failure of the parent/s. I heard one the other day about a kid that has an extra 10 minutes breaktime to calm down then they go back to class.
I draw a parallel with criminals. There's a lot of rubbish around rehabilitation and 'understanding why people commit crimes', etc. The hard fact is that if the threat or deterent is sufficient, then people will think twice about committing the crime. Forget everything else.
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott
says...
1:00pm Thu 20 Dec 12
Mr_Fandango wrote:Nice try but you have proved to be a complete idiot. Now you must stand in the corner wearing your dunce hat and sucking your thumb until you are told otherwise.
First off i meant dribble its what i wanted to say secondly you may (surmise) all that you like if i was slipdesic it has nothing to do with you or any other person i am mearly trying to prove a point that you clearley have no idea about what you are talking about.
As you allways seem to like to say wheres your proof on this.
You have none what so ever so as i pointed out before please try and keep your worthless DRIBBLE to your self.
Merry christmas
Dartbored
says...
1:17pm Thu 20 Dec 12
PaulErith wrote:Spot on Paul - I've seen so many parents not follow through on a threat (because they don't want to "fall out" with their kid) and the kids just do it again, knowing that mum/dad will not really punish them.
reptiles wrote:I agree with some of what you say, and don't think that hitting a child is the answer. However, I don't think going too far the other way works either. Generally, you can't reason with a child. If they're being naughty, the way to stop it is to make a threat and carry that through. I remember when I was a kid being told that if I carried on misbehaving then I wouldn't be allowed to play on my Commorde 64 the next day (show my age). I ignored the threat, but my parents carried it out. Similar to an animal, it's conditioning. Next time the same threat was made, I behaved because I didn't like the punishment.
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:no never used the naughty step as it didnt work - but saying NO to a child just makes then want to do things more! These children with Austism and other complex special needs like learning disabilities need to know and understand why you are telling no. as the old saying goes to negatives do NOT make a positive. Be positive in the 1st place and they learn! As a mother of an adult with Austism amoungst other disabilities i think i am better placed to understand. Oh and a "clip round the ear" as you put it - thats 1 of the things that can cause brain damage in a child! Wikipedia and NHS sites along with other sites - are you saying they are all talking jibberish?? If you have ever worked with adults or children with disabilities of the mental kind then maybe you would think differently. Not all are naughty as you lot seem to think - some Autisitc, ADHD etc have turned out to be professors etc with the correct help. You sound like the type of person that if you had a dog and it was misbehaved youd smack it and then expect it to be loyal to you! In the generation of today we know and understand more about humans and animals how to treat and respect them and why they do some of the things they do! Those websites above were just an example. A clip round the ear is now classed as child abuse for 1 of the reasons i stated above! Unfortunately the world is full of arrogant people who think a smack, kicking, beating or shouting at does the trick. We have moved on from the 60's and how people were treated! I was taught to respect my elders, and in return i expect them to respect me!reptiles wrote:Complete and utter nonsense. If you are silly enough to believe the ADHD myth then more fool you. I daresay you are one of those parents who believes in the naughty step and asking your kids to 'please don't do that, darling', instead of telling them straight to behave or else. Believe me, children are like wild animals who have to be trained how to behave. Dogs, cats, chimps, foxes, gorillas etc all use discipline to train their offspring. If you don't then you are not only fighting nature but you are also failing society as a whole. A stern word and a clip round the ear never hurt anyone. Wikipedia? You must be joking.the wall wrote:oh so you are both medical professionals are you?? how can you say there is no such thing as ADHD - if you have had to live with it either in the home or workplace then you would understand - please educate yourselves and look up ADHD or Apsergers, its a rather complex mental disorder - yes i use the word mental which a lot of people do not like. In the 70-80s naughty kids as you put it were just classed as naughty because there was not enough research in the UK .They have complex needs and have problems understanding the world around them - they live in a bubble for want of a better word, its not the fault of the parenting or the child, but they way the brain has turned out - making it a mental health problem - shame people do not understand mental health problems or issues. May i suggest that the likes of you to go and visit places where they help children and adults with mental health issues and maybe you just might see things differently! thought you may need a bit of education yourselves! read here!!! http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Attention_d eficit_hyperactivity _disorder http://www.netdoctor .co.uk/adhd/whatisad hd.htm ADHD stands for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. It’s thought to be caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain that affects the parts controlling attention, concentration and impulsivity. Read more: http://www.netdoctor .co.uk/adhd/whatisad hd.htm#ixzz2FaHa1aWyLord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote: There is no such thing as ADHD. It's just a convenient label given to kids who are constantly naughty but lack suitable parents to dish out some good old-fashioned discipline. The old saying, 'Spare the rod and spoil the child', has never been as relevant as it is in this present day and age.To right! It's a label given to kids so the parent/s feel their kid is special and stop nagging everyone and blaming everything else but themself. When really is a failure of the parent/s. I heard one the other day about a kid that has an extra 10 minutes breaktime to calm down then they go back to class.
I draw a parallel with criminals. There's a lot of rubbish around rehabilitation and 'understanding why people commit crimes', etc. The hard fact is that if the threat or deterent is sufficient, then people will think twice about committing the crime. Forget everything else.
Going slightly off topic - I also had a Commodore 64, what a fantastic computer. The youngsters in my office can't believe that games came on a cassette tape.
Commando, Uridium, Green Beret, kids without ADHD....happy days.
PaulErith
says...
1:31pm Thu 20 Dec 12
I had all those games that you mentioned. My favourite of all time had to be Last Ninja II. I guess that was right towards to the end of the computer's lifespan. I did also have disks in the later days (the big floppy disks).
..They were the days!
lollie,erith
says...
1:57pm Thu 20 Dec 12
Tip-Top
says...
2:02pm Thu 20 Dec 12
Dartbored
says...
2:22pm Thu 20 Dec 12
PaulErith wrote:Mastertronic and Codemasters if my memory serves me well.
I still have the '64' somewhere in a cupboard at my parent's house. Had over 200 tapes. Back in the days when I could use my pocket money to buy a game every week for £1.99 or £2.99. :)
I had all those games that you mentioned. My favourite of all time had to be Last Ninja II. I guess that was right towards to the end of the computer's lifespan. I did also have disks in the later days (the big floppy disks).
..They were the days!
You must have been well posh to have a disk drive, I used to use my ghetto blaster to copy games using the tape-to-tape facility. Ha ha, seems so funny now.
Dartbored
says...
2:48pm Thu 20 Dec 12
lollie,erith wrote:Lollie, I don't think anyone is trolling on here, it's a public forum allowing people to discuss the article in question.
the boys mum phoned up various autistic schools who could not take her son as his academic levels have to be lower. he is awaiting another school place at the moment. as for the trolls going on about i see parents do this and say that. is that what they do all day, listening to other peoples' conversations and trash typing on the keyboard. sad lives. and judging by what they say about people on here, they shouldve had a size 10 boot up their backsides, maybe wouldve turned out better people (one can only dream). maybe they should spend some quality time with their families instead of getting on here all the time.
I feel quite strongly about the ADHD "label" and have aired my views on the matter. I'm not commenting on the child in the article - I never would as I don't know them.
Some people, me included, are not convinced that ADHD is a medical condition and have supplied real-life examples to back that up. You obviously disagree, which is your perogative.
Bob Downondiss
says...
3:01pm Thu 20 Dec 12
Anyone with more than one brain cell knows ADHD etc etc etc ( yawn ) is in fact a load of bull chit dreamt up by the pharmaceutical industry to boost profits.
PaulErith
says...
4:36pm Thu 20 Dec 12
Dartbored wrote:Lol! Try explaining to kids that to play a game, you'd have to load a tape that could take 30 minutes or more, and often it would go wrong half way through and you'd have to load it again. The disk drive was very very late in the computer's history. I don't think they were particularly expensive, but there were hardly any games written for it.
PaulErith wrote: I still have the '64' somewhere in a cupboard at my parent's house. Had over 200 tapes. Back in the days when I could use my pocket money to buy a game every week for £1.99 or £2.99. :) I had all those games that you mentioned. My favourite of all time had to be Last Ninja II. I guess that was right towards to the end of the computer's lifespan. I did also have disks in the later days (the big floppy disks). ..They were the days!Mastertronic and Codemasters if my memory serves me well. You must have been well posh to have a disk drive, I used to use my ghetto blaster to copy games using the tape-to-tape facility. Ha ha, seems so funny now.
You're right about Mastertronic and Codemasters being two of the big players.
Oldchap
says...
4:56pm Thu 20 Dec 12
PaulErith wrote:Well I've still got a ZX81 - if the optional memory pack (8k) moved a fraction it restarted & you lost everything!
I still have the '64' somewhere in a cupboard at my parent's house. Had over 200 tapes. Back in the days when I could use my pocket money to buy a game every week for £1.99 or £2.99. :) I had all those games that you mentioned. My favourite of all time had to be Last Ninja II. I guess that was right towards to the end of the computer's lifespan. I did also have disks in the later days (the big floppy disks). ..They were the days!
Less capacity than my mobile phone
Dartbored
says...
5:07pm Thu 20 Dec 12
I used to buy computer magazines that listed the coding (in BASIC) for an entire game. I'd spend a whole weekend tapping it into my computer and ended up with an X bouncing over a O.....kinda makes me appreciate what it takes to code the latest stuff on Xboxes etc
lollie,erith
says...
5:51pm Thu 20 Dec 12
Guess who ;) AGAIN !
says...
7:08pm Thu 20 Dec 12
lollie,erith wrote:"look what's happened, youre sitting on a computer all the time now! tut tut.”
thank you to reptile who has put a lot of information on here regarding adhd. you know what youre talking about. as for the comments from someone who said they stimulated their minds by going out playing football etc and not on the computer. look what's happened, youre sitting on a computer all the time now! tut tut.
Pot kettle, kettle pot. Get it Lol ?
lollie,erith
says...
8:17pm Thu 20 Dec 12
Guess who ;) AGAIN !
says...
8:40pm Thu 20 Dec 12
reptiles
says...
9:30am Fri 21 Dec 12
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:i beg to differ your comments of a clip around the ear is the sort of thing that had made unruly kids & Yobbos as you put it - bullying and child abuse. You seem to think a clip round the ear will do the trick??? a clip around the ear if they dont do as you tell them then leads to a harder clip around the ear which then kids think is ok to do , which then escalates to a good kicking if they dont get what they want or people dont do as they ask.kids learn from their elders - so well done for teaching kicks its ok to smack someone around the head, and then if they dont do as the person asked they can keep doing it! A clip around the ear, you seem to think does the trick, it is 1 of the 1st causes of problems in the brain by it being jarred, every time someone has a slap, blow to the head, enough times and it causes brain damage, which can then lead to the likes or the ADHD which you say does not exist.
reptiles wrote:Your comment is a perfect example of why our society is now marred by unruly kids and yobbos who have no respect for others and who have not the slightest idea what NO really means.
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:no never used the naughty step as it didnt work - but saying NO to a child just makes then want to do things more! These children with Austism and other complex special needs like learning disabilities need to know and understand why you are telling no. as the old saying goes to negatives do NOT make a positive. Be positive in the 1st place and they learn!
reptiles wrote:Complete and utter nonsense. If you are silly enough to believe the ADHD myth then more fool you.
the wall wrote:oh so you are both medical professionals are you?? how can you say there is no such thing as ADHD - if you have had to live with it either in the home or workplace then you would understand - please educate yourselves and look up ADHD or Apsergers, its a rather complex mental disorder - yes i use the word mental which a lot of people do not like. In the 70-80s naughty kids as you put it were just classed as naughty because there was not enough research in the UK .They have complex needs and have problems understanding the world around them - they live in a bubble for want of a better word, its not the fault of the parenting or the child, but they way the brain has turned out - making it a mental health problem - shame people do not understand mental health problems or issues. May i suggest that the likes of you to go and visit places where they help children and adults with mental health issues and maybe you just might see things differently!
Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:To right! It's a label given to kids so the parent/s feel their kid is special and stop nagging everyone and blaming everything else but themself. When really is a failure of the parent/s.
There is no such thing as ADHD. It's just a convenient label given to kids who are constantly naughty but lack suitable parents to dish out some good old-fashioned discipline.
The old saying, 'Spare the rod and spoil the child', has never been as relevant as it is in this present day and age.
I heard one the other day about a kid that has an extra 10 minutes breaktime to calm down then they go back to class.
thought you may need a bit of education yourselves! read here!!!
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Attention_d
eficit_hyperactivity
_disorder
http://www.netdoctor
.co.uk/adhd/whatisad
hd.htm
ADHD stands for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. It’s thought to be caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain that affects the parts controlling attention, concentration and impulsivity.
Read more: http://www.netdoctor
.co.uk/adhd/whatisad
hd.htm#ixzz2FaHa1aWy
I daresay you are one of those parents who believes in the naughty step and asking your kids to 'please don't do that, darling', instead of telling them straight to behave or else.
Believe me, children are like wild animals who have to be trained how to behave. Dogs, cats, chimps, foxes, gorillas etc all use discipline to train their offspring. If you don't then you are not only fighting nature but you are also failing society as a whole.
A stern word and a clip round the ear never hurt anyone.
Wikipedia? You must be joking.
As a mother of an adult with Austism amoungst other disabilities i think i am better placed to understand. Oh and a "clip round the ear" as you put it - thats 1 of the things that can cause brain damage in a child! Wikipedia and NHS sites along with other sites - are you saying they are all talking jibberish??
If you have ever worked with adults or children with disabilities of the mental kind then maybe you would think differently. Not all are naughty as you lot seem to think - some Autisitc, ADHD etc have turned out to be professors etc with the correct help.
You sound like the type of person that if you had a dog and it was misbehaved youd smack it and then expect it to be loyal to you! In the generation of today we know and understand more about humans and animals how to treat and respect them and why they do some of the things they do! Those websites above were just an example.
A clip round the ear is now classed as child abuse for 1 of the reasons i stated above!
Unfortunately the world is full of arrogant people who think a smack, kicking, beating or shouting at does the trick. We have moved on from the 60's and how people were treated! I was taught to respect my elders, and in return i expect them to respect me!
Well done for being partly responsible for the decline of civilised Britain.
Now go away and eat something suitable for vegans and sanctimonious bores.
I do hope your children did not turn out to be a bully like you and abuse thier children or others by clipping them around the ear! you come on here and bully people mentally as well as physically by the sound of it with your clips! then have to cheek to say ADHD is not real. Attention deficit - they can pay attention becaause they have had to may clips around the ear!!
Dartbored
says...
9:38am Fri 21 Dec 12
lollie,erith wrote:Eh? My head hurts....
i was directed towards the person who was complaining that they think children are left to sit in front of computers all day who commented on here. it was their contradiction i was pointing out. get it. got it. good.
reptiles
says...
9:49am Fri 21 Dec 12
You spend all day on the likes of this place - try using google instead and do some research on these things. The computer and the internet are great tools IF you bother to use them correctly
the wall
says...
10:32am Fri 21 Dec 12
lollie,erith wrote:you then said : lollie,erith says...
thank you catz 48 i just ignore the ignorant. same old names on here. they make comments about a disabled boy and other children like him. What sort of role model are they to anyone. Lets hope their own children are not listening to what comes out of their mouths or written on a keyboard.
10:45pm Wed 19 Dec 12
if you dont like something. dont read it. simple.
lollie,erith says...
10:31pm Sun 9 Dec 12
lol i agree. there are always nasty comments by the same old. mr cameron take note, some of these people have too much time on their hands. what would they do all day if the comments section of NS was shut down.”
lollie,erith says...
9:52pm Tue 20 Nov 12
as usual, the same names not providing anything other than rudeness and abuse.
Is this all you go on about. Why don't you take some of your own advice....... if you dont like something. dont read it. Simple. ( Please notice capital letter after full stop)
One other thing maybe if you were not on here all the time getting offend by what other people say, you could learn some grammar and punctuation. Could be that the interweb just isn't you? It's also very interesting that you want to stop some people's freedom of speech and expression. Maybe you should wind your neck in and get a reality check on the real world vs words on a screen in some lone corner of the interweb.
Gypo.Joe
says...
11:20am Fri 21 Dec 12
I bet she has the NS phone number on speed dial as lots of my comments to this fool get deleted for no reason other than this moron calling in on me.
Happy Christmas Lol.
Gypo.Joe
says...
11:25am Fri 21 Dec 12
Me meself I prefer a full Windsor knot, it's very smart. Like innit.
fank YoU
Dartbored
says...
11:50am Fri 21 Dec 12
Gypo.Joe wrote:A box of capital letters for Christmas....brillia
Someone buy Lollie a box of capital letters for Christmas please.
I bet she has the NS phone number on speed dial as lots of my comments to this fool get deleted for no reason other than this moron calling in on me.
Happy Christmas Lol.
nt.
Dartbored
says...
12:00pm Fri 21 Dec 12
lollie,erith
says...
1:55pm Fri 21 Dec 12
the wall
says...
3:09pm Fri 21 Dec 12
lollie,erith wrote:One day love, maybe, you'll realise what a silly cow you are...like the rest of us do.
too much effort shouldnt be wasted on some of you so i type as i like. as for the tie just let someone tie it tightly on you, whatever the knot. anyway lets not focus the rest of the time on you, and get back to the subject matter. if you want to discuss yourselves, go somewhere else. as for the person who said what parent puts her child in the paper, this boy has now been given an offer of temporary private schooling where they cater and help children like him. maybe if she hadnt taken it to the paper then they would not have received the offer. as for the teaching assistant being abusive, should not be teaching children at all. lets hope from this some other parents in same position also get the right help for their children.
Abletom
says...
3:13pm Fri 21 Dec 12
"Allen Frances (lead author of the current edition, the DSM-IV), laments the expansion of diagnostic criteria. They argue that this may increase the number of “mentally ill” individuals and/or pathologize “normal” behavior, and lead to the possibility that thousands—if not millions—of new patients will be exposed to medications which may cause more harm than good."
He specifically 'regretted' that many 'conditions' such as ADHD, juvenile bipolar disorder and Aspergers were 'over diagnosed' due to a 'lowering of diagnostic criteria'. An excerpt from an interview he gave:
" "Pediatricians and child psychiatrists would see kids who could talk but who had social discomfort -- severe social discomfort -- and awkwardness and a very restricted and impairing level of interests and activities, and they wanted a diagnosis for this," Frances says.
A study was done to figure out how common Asperger's was, and the results were clear: It was vanishingly rare. Then Frances put it in the DSM, and the number of kids diagnosed with the disorder exploded. ...
It's not that Frances doesn't think that Asperger's exists and is a real problem for some people; he does. But he also believes the diagnosis is now radically overused in a way that he and his colleagues never intended.....
"In order to get specialized services, often one-to-one education, a child must have a diagnosis of Asperger's or some other autistic disorder," he says.
"And so kids who previously might have been considered on the boundary, eccentric, socially shy, but bright and doing well in school would mainstream regular classes," Frances says. "Now if they get the diagnosis of Asperger's disorder, get into a special program where they may get $50,000 a year worth of educational services."
Says it all doesn't it?
C.Rodders.Jefferson
says...
3:18pm Fri 21 Dec 12
the wall wrote:Mooooooooooooooooooo
lollie,erith wrote:One day love, maybe, you'll realise what a silly cow you are...like the rest of us do.
too much effort shouldnt be wasted on some of you so i type as i like. as for the tie just let someone tie it tightly on you, whatever the knot. anyway lets not focus the rest of the time on you, and get back to the subject matter. if you want to discuss yourselves, go somewhere else. as for the person who said what parent puts her child in the paper, this boy has now been given an offer of temporary private schooling where they cater and help children like him. maybe if she hadnt taken it to the paper then they would not have received the offer. as for the teaching assistant being abusive, should not be teaching children at all. lets hope from this some other parents in same position also get the right help for their children.
oo Mooooooooooooooooooo
ooooooo
Abletom
says...
3:25pm Fri 21 Dec 12
Consider, as an example, the shooting of so many innocents in Newtown in the USA. A 'mad', 'bad' 'troubled' youth chose to go to a school, one of the vanishingly few areas in the USA where he could be sure there would be no one armed and able to defend themselves and others.
My point? Just because someone has a 'mental health issue' (assuming they even do) does not mean that they are either stupid or cannot recognise right/wrong and boundaries.
There are those who excuse this boys behaviour (and others) as due to some (probably spurious) condition - no, he acts as he does because he (and they) get(s) away with it!
Simples,
Gypo.Joe
says...
3:37pm Fri 21 Dec 12
Abletom wrote:Great comment Tom.
Oh and another thing.
Consider, as an example, the shooting of so many innocents in Newtown in the USA. A 'mad', 'bad' 'troubled' youth chose to go to a school, one of the vanishingly few areas in the USA where he could be sure there would be no one armed and able to defend themselves and others.
My point? Just because someone has a 'mental health issue' (assuming they even do) does not mean that they are either stupid or cannot recognise right/wrong and boundaries.
There are those who excuse this boys behaviour (and others) as due to some (probably spurious) condition - no, he acts as he does because he (and they) get(s) away with it!
Simples,
Its all about discipline, at home and school.
Dartbored
says...
4:25pm Fri 21 Dec 12
Thank you for closing this overlong debate with a succint, objective and well written response.
Discussion over.
Gypo.Joe
says...
5:07pm Fri 21 Dec 12
Lonnie please note, Amen with a capital A.
lollie,erith
says...
9:33pm Fri 21 Dec 12
Gypo.Joe
says...
11:22am Sat 22 Dec 12
I love it when the hard truth is told to some mug.
lollie,erith
says...
1:02pm Sat 22 Dec 12
Gypo.Joe
says...
1:10pm Sat 22 Dec 12
Oldchap
says...
2:12pm Sat 22 Dec 12
Or do you make an effort & just on here you can't be bothered
Gypo.Joe
says...
2:32pm Sat 22 Dec 12
MAO.
Ohh my sides.
lollie,erith
says...
8:08pm Sat 22 Dec 12
ron.1952
says...
9:07pm Sat 22 Dec 12
lollie,erith wrote:Tupperware or Ann Summers Lollie ?
oldchap - i am the employer.
Ron
Oldchap
says...
9:44pm Sat 22 Dec 12
lollie,erith wrote:What an example to set
oldchap - i am the employer.
Gallivan says...
7:21pm Tue 18 Dec 12
I hope this child gets the help he needs at another school because its very clear he will not recieve it at this school.