Graffiti? I think there are more pressing issues a Councillor should be turning his attention to.Yes, it is unsightly, but, come on, is this the only 'problem' in that area?

Cllr Fawthrop has asked police to record 39 separate incidents of alleged graffiti, that he has seen in Petts Wood, as a crime. I have explained the agreed protocols that exist between us and the council for reporting graffiti, and what is needed to record these incidents as a crime. I am disappointed that, despite my offer to meet with him, he has now approached the Newshopper alleging that Police do not take graffiti seriously. I am also disappointed that, as a representative of the people of Petts Wood and Knoll Ward, he is unaware of the excellent partnership work that has been happening involving his own council.
The Safer Bromley Partnership has set it's priorities based on the concerns of Bromley Residents. Subsequently, graffiti is treated as a priority - in fact we are the only borough in London that has graffiti in it's Control Strategy for tackling crime. Every Safer Neighbourhood Team has set graffiti as a policing priority. Recently both the Council Portfolio Holders for Public Protection and Community Safety and for Environment have committed monies, along with the Safer Bromley Partnership, to set up Operation Monica. This initiative will provide a covert pro-active response to graffiti. Safer Neighbourhood Panels will be able to bid for this resource to help target graffiti in their local area. Perhaps Cllr Fawthrop may like to advise his Panel of this opportunity.
Bromley Police do not tolerate graffiti and criminal damage and we have a positive arrest policy for these offences. We have reported almost 1500 incidents and arrested over 360 people this year for criminal damage (excluding motor vehicle crime). I again invite Cllr Fawthrop to meet with me and discuss his concerns. My message to him is "Please work with us, not against us".

Charles Griggs
Bromley Borough Commander

The Tory also says the Government should make it an offence to be in possession of a spray can in public.

Make it illegal to carry a spray can in public??!!! There’ll be a lot of very sweaty and smelly people around – and Boots and all the other chemists will be bankrupt very quickly! Nutter!!!

The Councils and there members, have more to answer to.Well said, Mr Griggs.Although the Police have powers, it is ultimately the Council elect that can decide.Pub licensing is now in there hands.I have not seen many 'trouble' pubs shut down in their hands.But,I do not see them opposing, many of these developments, right in 'your back yard'.
Councils are greedy and in league with many developers, that will turn our towns into concrete jungles.( More objects to put graffiti on).

I agree, Michael.

Hang on – aren’t the tories always bleating on about reducing police bureaucracy and freeing up more officers to patrol our streets? And now this bloke wants them to duplicate the councils work by investigating graffiti? Hardly a good use of public money or a police officer’s time with so much violent crime going on.

So is this official tory policy? You don't have to be mad to be a politician but it helps!

So, Mr. Fawthrop, we have you, to thank, for giving out lenient sentences ( being a serving Magistrate)?We wonder why, we are in the state we are, when all you worry about is graffiti.

Further evidence, if any was needed, that all local government should be abolished – no-one feels quite so self-important as a local councillor, making up for their otherwise empty and benighted lives. We have taken this notion of decentralised democracy too far and now we have a vast hierarchy of incompetent wannabe MP / failed MP politicians, all of them dissatisfied with the deck of cards that life has dealt them and all of them showing complete contempt towards those who elected them. Once ensconced via the popular vote, they become suffused with the self-importance of elected office. And there was me thinking that
our councillors were elected to look after our interests and represent our views – not use their elected office as some sort of political platform.

Ian wrote:
So, Mr. Fawthrop, we have you, to thank, for giving out lenient sentences ( being a serving Magistrate)?We wonder why, we are in the state we are, when all you worry about is graffiti.

Too right - and he's apparently been a magistrate for 22 years, 22 years that have seen the steepest rise in crime ever! When you look at the sentencing for offences the courts are dishing out, it’s no wonder that the police and CPS have decided to leave graffiti to the local authorities. The sanctions being applied to yobbery and anti-social behaviour are pathetic and send out the message that there are no consequences to these actions. My point here? Councillor Simon Fawthrop, as a magistrate – you reap what you sow!

What a picture of sartorial elegance Mr Fawthrop is, standing there in his jeans, jacket, open necked shirt and scruffy shoes. How scary that people like Simon Fawthrop actually live in this country, let alone get elected to office. Attempting to over inflate the crime statistics like this is simply a futile attempt to increase the 1984 Orwellian society that we currently live in – no doubt he’ll be lobbying for CCTV cameras all over Petts Wood to counter his self-created crime wave. Given half a chance I’ve no doubt he’s the type of nasty little busy body who would be snooping around our dustbins ensuring we’ve not put out too much, or put the wrong type of rubbish in the wrong bag given half the chance. Scary.

The point that has to be made here is that discretion and common sense has been removed from policing by politicians like this one over the years. This has been achieved by the requirement to record every incident as a ‘crime’. If a ‘crime’ is made out it must be fully investigated, with all of the inherent bureaucracy and time needed to achieve this. So our police are indoors swamped with paperwork and bureaucracy, created by politicians, and our politicians are bleating about them being more visible. It’s a self-created problem and the blame lies squarely at the feet of the politicians of all parties. The verbal gymnastics employed by these politicians are laughable.

greenwich council pays people to graffiti the walls on our estate but it is classed as art.
It looks like a big mess to me.

Why are some people infected with hysteria out of all proportion to the facts – I live and work in Petts Wood and we don’t have a graffiti problem – still, why let the facts get in the way of a good old political point scoring exercise? I know that the Labour party has lived off spin and blah for the last 11 years, but it's a sad day when the Conservatives follow suit. Certain parties have an interest in exaggerating the reality of crime and exerting strong pressures to present a picture of crime that is out of control – what exactly is your game councillor? Is it, as suggested by someone above, a futile attempt to strong arm some more money out of the council for CCTV cameras in Petts Wood?

I wouldn’t worry too much about it – all this rain will clean the streets up nicely! Should keep our graffiti obsessed councillor off the streets too. I take it that Mr Fawthrop isn’t a fan of the DPM crew and won’t be visiting the Tate Modern?

I’m glad the police chief has told Mr Fawthrop where to get off. The police are there to protect the constitutional order and the safety of the individual, society and the government within the bounds of the law – not act like the stasi, dropping everything to be at the beckon call of power crazed politicians. The police must remain politically neutral and not bow to the political pressures of people like Simon Fawthrop. Stick by your guns Commander Griggs.

I think that Councillor Simon Fawthrop has actually decided to stop being a joke politician (see attempting to build a block of flats in Ken Livingstone’s back garden or attempting to become a Tory MP in Islington, for further info) and has decided to paint himself as a no nonsense sort of politician who’s determined to undertake tackling the so called ‘broken windows’ problems. Unfortunately he’s fallen in to the trap that many ‘rent a policy’ politicians before him have and totally misunderstood the concept behind ‘broken windows’ policing. ‘Broken windows’ policing is not a ‘zero-tolerance’ philosophy. It is a philosophy that says that police can help reduce serious crime by paying attention to minor crimes that affect the character of a neighbourhood – so far so good, Simon. To do that well, officers have to pay attention to CONTEXT – it’s beginning to go wrong now, Simon – and do only what is necessary, including doing nothing when warranted, to maintain public order. Oh dear, it’s all come crashing down around you, Simon! The council have a graffiti cleaning unit, who remove graffiti when it is brought to their attention. There is an agreed protocol for reporting graffiti to the police. It works well, leaving the police to focus on the more serious crimes, as any right minded person would wish - although, all credit to them, they've still nicked over 360 people for graffiti offences since April. Why should you be an exception to the rule, Simon, and have preferential treatment, simply so that you can attempt to score a few cheap political points? Let the police police, let the council scrub and that leaves the politicians to............errr..
.........do what you do so well...........that is..........err.....
..well I'm sure you do something, although you don't even appear to be too well versed on council protocols or initiatives, given your lack of knowledge around the actions being taken around tackling graffiti!

Well said Mr Griggs.

What planet is this so called councillor been living on. It's common knowledge within the council that every Ward in Bromley has a dedicated Safer Neighbourhood team to Police it and is answerable to an elected panel of members known as a safer neighbourhood panel.

These members work with the Police and identify and advise the Police of their local crime issues.

If this councillor was worth any substance he would a) been a member of this or b) At least knew of its existence.

The Police Team in my area are extremely focused and pro active on this type of crime. We are fortunate that more more serious crime issues don't exist, but that doesn't mean we should dismiss this sort of offence as low priority.

In my opinion
Graffiti symbolises a broken Britain promotes a fear of crime and has a negative effect on communities.

Bromley is a very diverse borough to Police and peoples crime issues /concerns vary enormously.

The sort of people who carry out this anti social behaviour are more than likely commiting other anti social offences, and if not stopped they may move on to commit more serious crime.


I accept that in the scheme of things there are sometimes more important issues that the Police need to deal with.
They are working hard with members of the public, council and other agencies to deal with local crime issues and I for one am very grateful for the work they do.

If this councillor is concerned about this issue contact your local team find out when your next meeting is and go and voice your views.Not blab to the press.

I live on the edge of St Pauls Cray and I have to say that graffiti in this area is treated as a priority by the police and the council. As soon as it appears in our street, it is removed within a couple of days. This now means that the people who actually have the urge to draw everywhere, do not bother as it is removed so quickly.

Keep up the good work Mr Griggs and the Safer Neighbourhood teams working in the Crays!

Re: Charles Griggs, Bromley Borough Commander. Overuse of the comma, Charlie me old china. Cray Valley was pretty crap at teaching us lot English grammar. One solution is to catch the little toe rags and spray paint their prized possessions and property.

What on earth's this man Fawthrop on about - has be lost his marbles? Ban spray cans due to a tiny minority of the poplation misusing them? That's like banning cars due to road accidents, or banning bikes due to the tiny percentage of cyclists who ignore red lights. These graffiti artists would simply use marker pens instead - what then, ban them also? What a hysterical over-reaction! Could I request that the authorities arrest this man for wasting police time? If this is not possible.....how about committing him under one of the sections of the mental health act?

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this debate.

I think it is important to correct a few errors that appear to have go into this debate.

First to Marcus who lives in Petts Wood. I'm glad that you think that Petts Wood is relatively free of graffiti, that shows that the work I do on your behalf is paying off. You may not be aware but I regularly go around the ward and report items of graffiti and disrepair I find to the Council for cleaning. Sometimes I have spotted as many as 75 items. This is one reason that Petts Wood & knoll remain relatively graffiti free. (By the way Petts Wood both Queensway and Station Square sides already have CCTV so this is not intended to get CCTV).

I did enjoy the little joke from Michael in Bickley about Spray Cans. Just to clarify I was hoping that it would refer to Spray paint and that the wording would include, without reasonable cause.

Now to Commander Griggs.

I'm grateful that he has taken time to enter a message here. Though I do find it strange that he has never replied in person to one of my emails. Clearly the only way to get his attention appears to have a dialogue through the press.

Having said that I should ask Mr Griggs of the criminal damage figures he quotes how many people have been charged for graffiti related offences? o the 1500 reported offences how many were for graffiti? Why is it that over the period from 1st April this year The Council will have received 9000 graffiti reports, but Mr Griggs only has 1500?

Furthermore I would not wish to waste police time by having them investigate every single item of graffiti I report, however just like when I had a car stolen, I would expect the police to take it seriously and record that the offence had taken place.

To put thinks in perspective It cost Bromley Council £300,000+ per year to clean 21,500 incidents of graffiti. The tax payer therefore will ultimately pick up that bill. If £300,000.00 of crimninal damage is reported to the police, you would expect it to be taken seriously.

What appears to be happening is that the Police are more interested in their government targets and statistics than making residents feel safe.

Residents quite often do not feel safe because they see the criminal damage of graffiti go un punished.

Finally to clarify the role of a magistrate. Magistrates sit in a bench of 3 people and judge each case on it's merits. We are required by law to work within the guidelines set by the Government. To my knowledge all magistrates that I have sat with have upheld these principles. However I will say that in my 22 years as a magistrate, not once have had someone brought before the bench charged with criminal damage by way of graffiti. Which is why I wonder if ommander Griggs will provide the facts on graffiti criminal damage.

Oh dear, it’s silly season again. Do all local councillors go mad at this time of year or what? It was only a couple of years ago that Councillor Nicholas Bennett (whatever’s happened to him recently?!!!) wanted the police to waste their time by arresting people who removed their tops in our town centres! Now Councillor Fawthrop has decided to attempt to use the police to score political points against the government, by undertaking a one man crusade to ensure that crime doesn’t continue to decrease. He’s rejecting the crime figures simply because he doesn’t want them to be true – and this is typical of politicians in all parties when it serves their interests. The more crime falls, the more the self-serving politician rejects this. The facts are that there is too much crime and crime could be falling faster, but at the end of the day crime is falling. The main problem is that the police aren’t being given enough time to do their job out on the street where it matters and ill thought out attempts at cheap publicity like this one by Councillor Fawthrop aren’t going to help them do what we want them to do most – ensure our continued safety.

Councillor Fawthrop, I re-iterate, unfortunately you've fallen in to the trap that many ‘rent a policy’ politicians before you have and totally misunderstood the concept behind ‘broken windows’ policing. ‘Broken windows’ policing is not a ‘zero-tolerance’ philosophy. It is a philosophy that says that police can help reduce serious crime by paying attention to minor crimes that affect the character of a neighbourhood. To do that well, officers have to pay attention to CONTEXT – youre argument's beginning to fail here, Simon – and do only what is necessary, including doing nothing when warranted, to maintain public order. Oh dear, it’s all come crashing down around you, Simon! The council have a graffiti cleaning unit, who remove graffiti when it is brought to their attention. There is an agreed protocol for reporting graffiti to the police. It works well, leaving the police to focus on the more serious crimes, as any right minded person would wish.

Though I do find it strange that he has never replied in person to one of my emails.

This is totally untrue, Councillor Fawthrop. I personally emailed you the Borough Commander's response to your email at 1505hrs on 25 July. This response was signed by the Borough Commander and contained the Borough Commander's views on the matter. This email also included a copy of the investigation that he had asked the Detective Chief Inspector to undertake. You replied to this email at 1941hrs on 27 July, starting your email "Dear Commander Griggs, Thank you for your note.....".

William

I want people to have confidence in the crime figures, whichever way they move. However public perception is made up of what they are told (crime fgures going down) and what they see many incidents of graffiti. Unfortunately as the two examples don't coincide people are rightly confused and sceptical of the figures.

Safety is as much about perception as facts, I want people to feel safe. Residents should also feel that it is not a problem for them to report what might appear to be minor crime, they should not be seen as wasting police time, but as helping the wider community.

There is nothing silly in that. If people do not report the problems, those in authority, who may not be as pro-active as myself, may well presume everything is fine.

Am I missing something? Is a local election around the corner? Why has Simon Fawthrop suddenly surfaced? He’s never normally vocal unless there’s something for him to personally gain? Perhaps he’s about to defect to another party...............
I think that we should be told?!!!

This is another one of Simon Fawthrop’s ‘I wanna be in the news’ moments – he engaged in a clumsy bit of electioneering by making an application to build in Ken Livingstone’s back garden – and then wondered why the Tories ran a mile when he put himself forward as their candidate for Mayor of London!!!

Julian

As a police office you must know that second-hand or hearsay does not count.

But I'm less interested in the semantics and more interested in how these incidents are recorded to reflect the crime that is taking place under our noses.

I never trust anything a councilller says they lie to our faces to get votes and then lap up the freebies.Show me your expenses and then talk to me.

simon Fawthrop wrote:
Julian As a police office you must know that second-hand or hearsay does not count. But I'm less interested in the semantics and more interested in how these incidents are recorded to reflect the crime that is taking place under our noses.

But I'm less interested in the semantics... Oops, looks like our erstwhile councillor's been caught out telling a few porkies to embelish his story! Complaining like this over something that is so trivial is one of the few opportunities that some people have of feeling important and empowered. Thus, for instance, ‘taking on’ a large, significant and high profile organisation gives a buzz to a lot of people who don’t have much else about which to feel pleased with themselves – as well, of course, as getting their names in the paper. This is another one of Simon Fawthrop’s ‘I wanna be in the news’ moments – after all, he was the man who engaged in a clumsy bit of electioneering by making an application to build in Ken Livingstone’s back garden – and then wondered why the Tories ran a mile when he put himself forward as their candidate for Mayor of London!!! His judgement is pretty suspect too - I recall that he was a strong supporter of Iain Duncan-Smith and came out with the stunning line “I'd say Iain Duncan Smith was up to the job”. One can only feel sorry for the hard done by residents of Petts Wood!

Oh that Simon Fawthrop – I thought the name was familiar - the same man who unsuccessfully ran to become Conservative London Mayoral candidate...........
..after campaigning against even having a mayor a few years before “"We will have higher council tax, more bureaucracy, less effective local government. London doesn't need a political beauty contest every four years”???? Not exactly what you’d call a principled man who stands by his views! And he certainly changed his mind about higher council tax, more bureaucracy, less effective local government – we’ve had most of that here in Bromley, and he wants to make things even more bureaucratic for the police by having them spend hours recording his self created crimes? When are the next local elections? Not soon enough if you ask me........

Check out the below – it makes some great points about the double standards of the politicians like Simon Fawthrop and leaves us asking the question as to why they want to tie the police up in bureaucracy (and also asking ourselves "Are these people we should ultimately be blaming for the rise in violent crimes in our society?").

SOME of these men have worked with vulnerable youngsters teaching them how to use art to express themselves, one of them was hired to decorate the set of Britain's best loved soap and next Saturday pictures of their work will be displayed in a unique art exhibition in New York.

But these five men are currently in prison, serving between 15 months and two years each after pleading guilty to one of the biggest prosecutions for criminal damage the UK has ever seen.

So are the DPM crew petty criminals or art's next big thing?

Eight young men were sentenced last Friday after they all admitted a charge of conspiracy to cause criminal damage that is estimated to have cost up to £1million.

Called the DPM crew, they all admitted conspiracy to graffiti trains and rolling stock that caused hundreds and thousands of pounds worth of damage to South Eastern Trains alone between 2004 and 2006.

British Transport Police, who led the inquiry said DPM were responsible for tagging and spray painting trains in Dartford, Grove Park and Orpington as well as Croydon trams, Wandsworth Town tube and stations in Liverpool, Manchester and other parts of Europe.

Detective Sergeant Michael Field, who led the inquiry described it as a "major crime on a vast scale".

He said: "Graffiti is an attack on the community and the environment. It is anti-social and destructive and it's a crime we take very seriously."

Indeed, the courts took it just as seriously, jailing five members Andrew Gillman, Slav Zinoviev, Ziggy Grudzinskas, Paul Stewart and Matthew Pease to a total of eight years with the remaining three receiving 12 month suspended sentences.

Sentencing at Southwark Crown Court, Judge Christopher Hardy said he had to acknowledge that some of the graffiti written by DPM showed "considerable talent".

It is that considerable talent is to be shown off in an exhibition organised by Hip Hop promoters End of the Weak and artist Elura Emerald this Saturday at the Anonymous Gallery Project Space in Broome Street, New York.

Ms Emerald said: "The exhibition in NYC is to give the recognition to the artists that I believe they deserve and to accentuate the fact that they are not at all criminals and do not at all deserve to be put in jail for their creative force.

"I do not believe the creators of art should be punished, but appreciated and celebrated."

On the day that the court opened its case against DPM, London's Tate Modern was opening its Street Art exhibition celebrating artists who made their names by 'decorating' buildings in much the same kind of illegal activity.

Hundreds of thousands of visitors have already filed past the installations, admiring work by Blu, an Italian graffiti artist who uses buildings as "sheets of paper", JR who illegally painted his initials around the streets of Paris and Brazilian Nunca who started tagging at the age of 12.

One member of the Tate's audience was 25-year-old Greenwich art student and member of DPM, Ziggy Grudzinskas who was sentenced to 18 months in prison.

"I stood there completely baffled for about an hour outside of the Tate," he said before the sentencing.

"I quite like it but it really confused me a lot. I know that half, if not all of the graffiti that is on the Tate Modern building is done by people who do illegal graffiti or have done illegal graffiti and have made their name doing that.

"It is like they're saying 'yeah we're on the edge of the law yet we're being shown by one of the biggest galleries in London.' And it's sponsored by Nissan!"

According to Andrew Gillman, the 25-year-old so-called 'main mover' of DPM who was jailed for two years, the exhibition just highlights the mixed messages surrounding graffiti.

He said: "If you can make money from illegal graff or a gallery does it off your back, then it's okay. It's in advertising and fashion as well. There is graffiti on trainers, hoodies, hats, t-shirts, everything you can think of. People want to wear illegal graffiti that is on the trains and the street.

"How come you can wear it and buy it, use it in advertising, marketing, music and every album cover and as soon as you do it you're f***ed, so where's the message? If they don't want people to be involved, don't popularise it."

End of the Weak's Padraic Mccroudi, who last summer hosted an event in association with the Tate Modern called the Art of Freestyle, said: "Jailing artists for criminal damage, although it may seem to be a deterrent, does in fact only serve to gain kudos and notoriety for the artist.

"This in turn means that the criminal justice system in this case is fundamentally flawed and counter productive."

Even London councils Greenwich and Tower Hamlets called the work by Grudzinskas, and fellow DPM member Jack Binnie, 26, who got a suspended sentence, as "inspirational" and "positive" in character references they gave to the court.

They were popular Street Art tutors and led workshops in youth clubs teaching young and vulnerable children "positive messages about life choices" and helping to construct striking murals in Charlton Village, Woolwich and Tower Hamlets.

A source at Greenwich council said: "They showed the young people who aren't able to do reading or writing that they can use artistic ways to express themselves.

"Their skills are obviously needed, it doesn't make sense to send them down, we should use them."

Matthew Pease, 24, and Paul Stewart, 26, also of DPM who were sentenced to 15 months and 18 months respectively, took part in a five-day workshop in the Czech Republic to work with disadvantaged youths as part of an event organised by music and art organisation Community Music (CM).

But it was Gillman in particular who made the headlines when he was hired by the BBC to tag the set of EastEnders while he was on bail.

He said: "They knew I was a writer. I said to them, the tags I am putting up, are the tags I see in London so it's realistic. And they said 'great, realistic tags, just what we want.'

"And they said 'maybe you could come up with three tags for EastEnders, you know, three writers that are just around the square, you could put up East 13 crew, one could be Rocky!' They were getting really into it."

But now DPM have vowed never to pick up a spray can again since their conviction but their friendship will clearly remain.

"It was more about friendship than graffiti," Gillman said. "We knew what we were doing was wrong but when you are painting a piece, all your worries just fall away.

"Trains were like moving canvasses, they go underground, over bridges. And if you're standing there amongst the crowd and you see everyone looking at it, it gives you a huge feeling of gratification.

"We tried to create something that was artistic, made people look, something that's thought provoking, makes commuters look up from their paper."

DPM's "brains of the group", Masters graduate Slav Zinoviev, 25, who was sentenced to 18 months in prison, said: "Now that Banksy has come around, people see it as one of the purest art forms, which it essentially is. And so to that extent I would say that I was an artist.

"To train writers, tags are actually much more valuable to the graffiti community than a Banksy painting is.

"We were all brought together by some sort of passion and this is one of the things that has created stronger bonds between us, and perhaps given us richer memories than the average person possesses."

Gillman of St John's Hill, Battersea, was jailed for two years; Zinoviev, of the same address, Grudzinskas of Ulundi Road, Greenwich and Stewart of Manor Lane, Lewisham received 18 months in jail; Pease also of Manor Lane, Lewisham was jailed for 15 months

As they were led to the cells, members of a packed public gallery shouted: "We love you boys, stay strong!" and applauded them until they were out of sight.

Binnie of Adelaide Avenue, Ladywell and Matthew Tanti, 23, of Holmsbury Court, Upper Tooting Road were each sentenced to 12 months suspended for 12 months.

Alex McClelland, 24, of Croxted Road, West Dulwich was sentenced to nine months suspended for 12 months.

Outside court, Ziggy's father Professor Gedis Grudzinskas said: "Ziggy has been sent to prison for 18 months having pleaded guilty to a crime not involving violence, terrorism, knives or drugs but vandalising public property.

"British Transport Police declined to arrest him and others when they knew they were breaking the law, presumably to develop their case for this show trial costing the taxpayer thousands and thousands of pounds unnecessarily.

"Now they have sent him to jail instead of getting him to do community service for example to clean and help restore the trains and stations.

"This is not justice in modern Britain is it?

My my my, there is so much here to agree with. However, contrary to the rumours circulating amongst some of Bromley's more colourful and fragrant Members,I am not the same Colin from Bickley that posted at 11.48 this morning - However if would like to contact me at the Council I would be delighted to meet him. Also contrary to some of the posts here, in my opinion most Bromley Council Members (of all parties) are hard working and passionate about making the Borough of Bromley a better place. It is true though that those who shout the most often have the least the say...

It is true though that those who shout the most often have the least the say...

Ohhh, a stunning knockout by Bloom. Fawthrop well and truly laid out for the ten count by that one! A real beauty!!!

simon Fawthrop wrote:
Julian As a police office you must know that second-hand or hearsay does not count. But I'm less interested in the semantics........

Good Lord, Fawthrop, if you were strapped up to a CIA lie detector your gonads would be crisp little peanuts for that attempt at rewriting history. You've been well caught out mate.

William

I want people to have confidence in the crime figures, whichever way they move. However public perception is made up of what they are told

Utter Rubbish, Mr Fawthrop. The public are not so gullible as to believe everything that they are told, especially after 11 years of a Labour government spinning continuously and attempting to manpulate the statistics to suit their requirements (a word of warning, Mr Fawthrop, we've caught on to this spin lark a while a go, so it's a poor time to be attempting it. The Conservatives are better than this, even if you're not). Fear of crime serves the interest of a law and order agenda. It is irrelevant at one level whether crime is really increasing or not - if crime is perceived to be out of control, then there is pressure to do something about it. Protestations that crime is stable or decreasing have little effect because the tendency of the media is to highlight dramatic and violent crime. Politicians like you are quite willing to climb onto the law and order bandwagon and pledge to be "doing something about it" merely as a political manoevre. Crime is falling, even if you can't admit it for party political purposes.

The person like you, who is given to moral panic, sees the whole of society through the lens of an isolated or inconsequential event, believing it to be typical and representative, when in fact it is rare and no more frequent than it has ever been. Petts Wood is a lovely community - try promoting it positively for a change.

Colin Bloom (Cllr) wrote:
My my my, there is so much here to agree with. However, contrary to the rumours circulating amongst some of Bromley\'s more colourful and fragrant Members,I am not the same Colin from Bickley that posted at 11.48 this morning - However if would like to contact me at the Council I would be delighted to meet him. Also contrary to some of the posts here, in my opinion most Bromley Council Members (of all parties) are hard working and passionate about making the Borough of Bromley a better place. It is true though that those who shout the most often have the least the say...

Not exactly earth shattering input here Cllr Bloom!!!

In my country we refer to Mr Fawthrop as an 'Anouuus'.

v wrote:

Colin Bloom (Cllr) wrote: My my my, there is so much here to agree with. However, contrary to the rumours circulating amongst some of Bromley\'s more colourful and fragrant Members,I am not the same Colin from Bickley that posted at 11.48 this morning - However if would like to contact me at the Council I would be delighted to meet him. Also contrary to some of the posts here, in my opinion most Bromley Council Members (of all parties) are hard working and passionate about making the Borough of Bromley a better place. It is true though that those who shout the most often have the least the say...

Not exactly earth shattering input here Cllr Bloom!!!

On the contrary, V, he's been very perceptive..........
..is V short for vested interest, by the way?

I love it - the public humiliation of a political chancer! Firstly the full facts from a Police Chief, then the politician's constituents -and a few others - join in, then the revelation from a press officer that the politician may have been slightly economical with the truth, then the coup de grace of a top Conservative councillor putting the boot in. What marvellous entertainment!!! David Mills, you should be knighted for bringing us this gem!!!