Discuss: Revamp of benefits system (From News Shopper)

E-editions

Read our printed newspapers online click here »

Your Shopper

Send your news, photos & videos. Text NEWS SHOPPER and your message to 80360 or click here to email us » »

News RSS Feed

Discuss: Revamp of benefits system

11:38am Monday 21st July 2008

comment Comments (39) Have your say »

By Simon Bull »

JOBLESS people could be told to do community work if you want to continue receiving benefits. What do you think?

Under Government proposals, long-term unemployed people could be made to work full-time in the community carrying out tasks such as picking up litter or cleaning graffiti.

The "no right to a life on benefits" reform of the welfare system is aimed at stopping people's reliance on handouts.

What do you think? Do you think the measures proposed will be effective at encouraging people back into paid work? Will they reduce abuse of the system or do the proposals persecute people who are genuinely incapable of working or unable to find suitable work?

Is the 'work for dole' approach fair? Is it right that lone parents with children aged seven or more should be expected to seek work?

If someone is deemed unfit to carry out a certain type of work, should they be expected to find employment in a different field?

Some people complain it is more profitable to live on benefits than to work - what can be done to combat this?

Add your comments below.

Print article » Email to a friend »

Your Say YourShopper

Kitten, London says...
12:08pm Mon 21 Jul 08

Mothers on benefits should be told look we will pay for one mistake but if you have any more apparent mistakes then we are not paying for them you will have to live off of the same money. Then the breedin rate would drop in this country. Many of these mothers think when their child reaches school age oh I don't want to go to work so I will have another baby instead to secure my future on benefits.

Any able bodied person who can work should work simple.

Report this post »

Locked and Loaded, says...
12:30pm Mon 21 Jul 08

A condition of any benefit should be drug testing. Fail a drug and alchol test, no benefit.
There is plenty of work in the community for the unemployed to do.

Report this post »

Biscuit, Bromley says...
1:07pm Mon 21 Jul 08

Kitten wrote:
Mothers on benefits should be told look we will pay for one mistake but if you have any more apparent mistakes then we are not paying for them you will have to live off of the same money. Then the breedin rate would drop in this country. Many of these mothers think when their child reaches school age oh I don't want to go to work so I will have another baby instead to secure my future on benefits. Any able bodied person who can work should work simple.

Well put Kitten. I so agree with you. A maximum of 5 years on benefits for single parents. When the kid starts school they start work. Any children born whilst on benefits is not paid for by public money.

I'd also like to add that I cannot see why an unemployed person supposedly looking for work would have a problem working for their benefits until they get the job that they want? I've always felt that anyone on unemployment should spend their days undertaking much needed work for the community. There's loads they could do for their "pay" - cleaning public places, ie. hospitals & streets, or helping the elderly etc etc. And they're the ones who harp on about having "No sense of purpose". Well, problem solved.

I also think its a brilliant idea that people on disability will be vetted by an independent doctor. It is one of the most abused benefits going. This will safeguard those genuinely too ill to work, but root out all the pretenders.

Report this post »

Bob, says...
1:17pm Mon 21 Jul 08

Of course they should work - when did we all come this point where we feel we have to 'reward' people for going to work, and keeping themselves? What happened to the notion that being able to support yourself is normal, and benefits are just for people in a transitory period(whatever reason this may be) between work.
I do think that you will need to treat it with a bit of common sense and match people and skills where possible, however, if not, then most of the community services will be something that everybody will be able to do.

Report this post »

Me, Working for a living says...
1:24pm Mon 21 Jul 08

I agree with these comments - why should people ponce on benefits when we hard working people are paying for them.Apart from people who clain to be too ill to work another huge benefit fraud are women who claim to live with just their children when they have a partner working full time and living with them.Unemployed people should work in the community cleaning up litter / graffiti etc and lone parents should be doing the same during school & nursery hours.If they want benefits let them earn them.How about the government offering a reward to the people who report fraudulant claiments.If a person is getting rent,council tax,and an amount of money per week and shouldn't be this amounts to at least £100.00 per week - give £50.00 as a reward because in the long run the system will be saving thousands.

Report this post »

C, Dartford says...
1:31pm Mon 21 Jul 08

There are always jobs available for those who want to work. Trouble is, there are those who won't accept anything except one particular type of job. And yes, before you ask, I was out of work myself once, for about three weeks. Hated it!

Report this post »

Bob, says...
1:36pm Mon 21 Jul 08

C wrote:
There are always jobs available for those who want to work. Trouble is, there are those who won't accept anything except one particular type of job. And yes, before you ask, I was out of work myself once, for about three weeks. Hated it!

Ah, but this is the point we want to get to: we actually want people to get so much self-worth that they'll be WANTING to work!

Report this post »

Me, still working hard says...
2:15pm Mon 21 Jul 08

If people on benefits can't get the job they want they should take any job offered until they can find the job they want- simple as that.There are thousands of people who work in jobs that they would rather not but that is just life - why do people who claim benefits think they have a god given right to claim them when there are jobs available.I would rather have a low paid job and have my self respect than be a benefit ponce.

Report this post »

c shell, b says...
2:50pm Mon 21 Jul 08

If the government see it through I think its their best suggestion yet! too many people milk the system and know how to work it. I have to go to work to pay for the unemployed so why should'nt they experience working for their keep? It will give them their self respect back and ease them in to full time employment and appreciate their wage packet at the end of the month.
Also poeple who are on incapacity benifit should also be means tested , if they have nothing to hide they have nothing to worry about.

Report this post »

doris, sunny dartford says...
3:20pm Mon 21 Jul 08

i would like to say i have worked since leaving school & am sick of people who just "cant be bothered" why should i and many others pay for idle people.they get everything and us tax payers get nothing our tax and n.i should be put into saving accounts so we get it back when we retire. so if you dont work you dont get anything. also dont benefit people check individuals specially claiming incapacity, i know of two people who claim and there is nothing that can stop them working completely they should be told to get a job. and instead of giving people who claim benefits money giv them vouchers for the kids and groceries,and exempt them buying alcoholand fags they may decide to work then

Report this post »

Bob, says...
3:39pm Mon 21 Jul 08

Although I completely agree that it builds a lot resentment from 'normal' taxpayers - myself included - I think it's more about trying to break a cycle of generations on benefits, who doesn't know the meaning of work and job-satisfaction. How can you expect young people to appreciate being self-sufficient if all they know is how to avoid work and how to best take advantage of the benefit system. Education - academically and financially is the way forward, but short-term it's about damage limitation and regaining control of the public welfare system.

Report this post »

Bob, says...
3:42pm Mon 21 Jul 08

Oh - and if you can't afford it, don't 'buy' it - this includes things like TVs, cars, houses,booze, fags, holidays even having children!

Report this post »

rob, london says...
4:45pm Mon 21 Jul 08

so what you gonna say to all the immigrants? the ones that dont are cant speak english?plus if there is jobs that need doing in the comunity then pay them a decent wage instead of slave labour if there is no incentive to work then they wont work and i mean incentive not an extra 10 pound in your dole money i was unemployed once / they called me in and told me of all the benefits of working so i got myself a job and within 3 months i was 700 pound in debt with rent i had to take time off of work to sort it out and guess what i lost my job through it ? work that out yourself and before you all start slagging me off for my rent arrears i was living in private accomadation which was 150 a week i earned 250 a week they would only pay 16 pound towards it/ so they need to sort the system so that people dont have the problems i did

Report this post »

Mark, Dartford says...
5:06pm Mon 21 Jul 08

Rob is right. There are deserving cases that are pushed aside by the ones that are lazy and have no inclination to work and want everything for free.
Just look at the Signing on office.Some arrive, sign on and then straight down the pub afterwards.I can't afford to go to the pub every day, how can they?

Report this post »

cassie, bromley says...
5:13pm Mon 21 Jul 08

why should people who are paying the higher rate of tax be having to subsidise those who can't be bothered to get highly paid employment?

there would be more money for the NHS, education etc if govt stopped giving hands-outs, euphemistically called 'tax credits', to those without the work ethic / skills to earn loadsa money

Report this post »

knowlsey, sidcup says...
5:17pm Mon 21 Jul 08

Caassie are you coming on to me?

Report this post »

c may, bromley says...
5:17pm Mon 21 Jul 08

my invalidity claiming b inn law has not worked for 20 years hes 60 now but can drive a car to nottingham and back in a day and build a brick wall hate the theiving fiddler

Report this post »

cassie, bromley says...
5:20pm Mon 21 Jul 08

oh no knowlsley, i had something in my eye ;)

Report this post »

knowlsey, sidcup says...
5:23pm Mon 21 Jul 08

Well thats a medical issue I asked if you were coming on to me.

Report this post »

cassie, bromley says...
5:26pm Mon 21 Jul 08

depends on the size of your payslip...

Report this post »

cassie, bromley says...
5:32pm Mon 21 Jul 08

one way to help people get on would be to stop hand-outs, aka 'tax credits' to anyone still in a lower-paid job after two years

Report this post »

knowlsey, sidcup says...
5:44pm Mon 21 Jul 08

We get it Cassie you earn good money....boring!!!!!
!

Report this post »

cassie, bromley says...
6:20pm Mon 21 Jul 08

ah, i don't think you are getting it....

Report this post »

cassie, bromley says...
6:24pm Mon 21 Jul 08

the really forward-thinking aspect of these proposals new labour stole from the conservative party is that money taken away from the unemployed, ill and addicted will instead go to private companies running the schemes

Report this post »

vern, west wickham says...
7:08pm Mon 21 Jul 08

I am delighted that my ideas have been listened to (see posts elsewhere) Its about time that the lazy chavs and chavettes and the fat feckless workshy scum were denied their benefit which WE taxpayers pay for.

The low lifes should clear up litter,dog poo and other mess to EARN anything they get then and savings should be re distributed to the GENUINE people who are not getting enough.

Automatic benefit for pregnant teenagers should be withdrawn immediatly to stop these young slappers thinking that they can cream it by gettin knocked up.

Report this post »

m, charlton says...
9:07pm Mon 21 Jul 08

yes,i agree everybody who is fit enough to work should, there's plenty of work out there and if they wont, stop there benefits, simple!

Report this post »

FRA, dartford says...
9:33pm Mon 21 Jul 08

I was made redundant last year. I have worked since the age of 17 I am now 57.
I hated going to the job centre I felt so guilty.
There were so many young people with no intention of working their conversations confirmed that. There were girls with the best outfits new prams and the best of everything, they were very demanding and rude to the staff in the center.
I got job seekers allowance for 16 weeks of £58pw which helped with the cost of going into london for interviews.
I now get nothing luckly my husband supports me. If these young people get housing, items for new babies and money and rent paid they will continue to not even try to get a job.
I was given limited help because I have worked and paid tax for 40 years All support should be linked to your previous job history if you have not contributed you should not get assistance.

Report this post »

want to but cant, Orpington says...
1:40am Tue 22 Jul 08

I fully understand what you are all saying. But I would like to make it clear that not all single parents are scroungers. I have 2 children by my husband, unfortunatly we broke up. Therefore i am now a single parent, I am on benifits and i can not get a job as my son is disabled. Yes he is in full time school but, with all the hospital appointments and the phone calls from his school asking me to give him some more pain relief i cant get a job. What kind of a boss would let me have all that amount of time off?
Before anyone says let the school give him the medication, they cant because it is a controlled drug therefore they are not allowed to keep it on school property. So what can i do? I do not drive drink or do drugs! I recive £18 income support, child tax credits and carers allowence. I would love to be able to find a job with a very understand boss. Does anybody know of any?

Report this post »

Geoff, northfleet says...
6:24am Tue 22 Jul 08

Put them to work in the fields.There is much to do there.I will also allow them to involve my trusty White horse and plough.

Report this post »

Lauren, Orpington says...
8:05am Tue 22 Jul 08

want to but cant wrote:
I fully understand what you are all saying. But I would like to make it clear that not all single parents are scroungers. I have 2 children by my husband, unfortunatly we broke up. Therefore i am now a single parent, I am on benifits and i can not get a job as my son is disabled. Yes he is in full time school but, with all the hospital appointments and the phone calls from his school asking me to give him some more pain relief i cant get a job. What kind of a boss would let me have all that amount of time off?
Before anyone says let the school give him the medication, they cant because it is a controlled drug therefore they are not allowed to keep it on school property. So what can i do? I do not drive drink or do drugs! I recive £18 income support, child tax credits and carers allowence. I would love to be able to find a job with a very understand boss. Does anybody know of any?

My son is in the same situation as yours I too am a single mum,it took me ages but I found a job in Tesco,not especially chalenging but their company policy allows flexability, and they have no problem with me having to leave at short notice on occassions - i make the time back up - and as they are open long hours this is no issue.ALL BIG COMPANIES NOW HAVE TO OFFER FLEXIBLE WORK TO PARENTS WITH SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN.

I think if you tried harder and stopped using your childs disability as an excuse you would find work - the trouble is as you would probably (like me ) be only a few pounds better off than on benefit you choose the benefit option - some people just have no moral compass when it comes to scrounging.....

Report this post »

Phil, Sidcup says...
8:30am Tue 22 Jul 08

I know 2 people who ponce benefits but unfortunately they are both related to me.Because of this i feel i can't shop them because they might just find out it was me.My sister claims benefits as a single parent with 4 kids living alone but she has a part time job cash in hand and a boyfriend who lives with her and has a full time job.My brother in law claims disability living allowance and income support but spends his day's down the gym for which the fee is subsidised because he is on benefits.He has recently purchased and expensive bike which he rides down to the kent countryside when the weather is nice.What a farce but with the new benefit structure surely this can't go on.

Report this post »

Bob, says...
9:27am Tue 22 Jul 08

rob wrote:
so what you gonna say to all the immigrants? the ones that dont are cant speak english?plus if there is jobs that need doing in the comunity then pay them a decent wage instead of slave labour if there is no incentive to work then they wont work and i mean incentive not an extra 10 pound in your dole money i was unemployed once / they called me in and told me of all the benefits of working so i got myself a job and within 3 months i was 700 pound in debt with rent i had to take time off of work to sort it out and guess what i lost my job through it ? work that out yourself and before you all start slagging me off for my rent arrears i was living in private accomadation which was 150 a week i earned 250 a week they would only pay 16 pound towards it/ so they need to sort the system so that people dont have the problems i did

Maybe this is the whole point - the benefits shouldn't be higher than working! I totally agree that everybody should at least be paid the minimum wage (look at the debacle about waiters at the moment - some paid an official £1.80 an hour) but the end result should be that benefits should be lower than getting a minimum wage job.

Report this post »

Letts, London says...
11:31am Tue 22 Jul 08

This is a very good idea and is about due. Maybe now, someone will have to accept me for a job. You see it works both ways. I have been out of work since October last year, and every day I have applied for at least one job, handed out cv's, spoken to people etc in the hope of getting back into work, but I am having no luck whatsoever. My profession is administration/secre

tarial, that shouldnt be hard you say, in my case, I wonder why I am experiencing so much refusal too.
I explain this to the job centre when signing on and ask for all kinds of help and assistance in retraining, work placements etc, and they just shrug me off cos they cant be bothered and havent the time to help with properly finding me work since their systems changed last year. So what do you do?
I do have the attitude that I am worth more than trawling the streets picking up litter. I have very good skills in office procedures and can even work on a shop floor as I have been in an unpaid voluntary capacity for a local charity shop. Even tescos and sainsbury have turned me down. What more can I do, and why should my benefits be stopped if I genuinely cant get back into employment? As I say, There are some of us who are not scroungers just dead unlucky.

Report this post »

Annon, Bromley says...
2:45pm Tue 22 Jul 08

I worked as a manager at a large Jobcentre in South London for 3 years and, in that time, witnessed claiments who had been in this country for over 20 years, who could not speak English. I witnessed claiments dressed in £200 track suits, laden with gold chains and braclets and mobile phones, with their BMW's parked outside on double yellow lines, who, according to their records, had never done a days work in their life. I became so demorolised in the 'system' that I ended up disbeliving all those who used my Jobcentre (even the ones who were genuinely looking for work). Our benefit system was designed for 'honest' folk who needed help while looking for work. Remember, this system was designed in the 50's and has never had a major overhaul in the past 50 years. Nigeria once had schools in place to teach their citizens how to claim benefits and get council houses when they arrived in England. What has England become.... a nation of scroungers being support by hardworking taxpayers.

Report this post »

cassie, bromley says...
2:47pm Tue 22 Jul 08

found a job in Tesco...as you would probably...be only a few pounds better off than on benefit... some people just have no moral compass when it comes to scrounging

shows it can be done, good for those actually who have such a moral compass and so gain highly-paid employment...

and thus don't have to scrounge unemployment / sickness benefit, housing benefit, council tax benefit and working tax credits

Report this post »

c roberts, bromley says...
4:58pm Tue 22 Jul 08

Phil wrote:
I know 2 people who ponce benefits but unfortunately they are both related to me.Because of this i feel i can't shop them because they might just find out it was me.My sister claims benefits as a single parent with 4 kids living alone but she has a part time job cash in hand and a boyfriend who lives with her and has a full time job.My brother in law claims disability living allowance and income support but spends his day's down the gym for which the fee is subsidised because he is on benefits.He has recently purchased and expensive bike which he rides down to the kent countryside when the weather is nice.What a farce but with the new benefit structure surely this can't go on.

chop the brother in law in hes taking the **** i chipped my b inn law in who was fiddling when he came round with a 100o pounds in his wallet from cash in hand jobs while sighing on he wont know who chopped him in belive me

Report this post »

wmum, bromley says...
4:41pm Fri 25 Jul 08

I'm a mum of 3 children and work full time. I claim tax credit of about £300 a month on top of my salary and can just about manage to keep a roof over our heads. I'd really like the CSA to use their teeth and force my self-employed ex-husband to pay maintenance. Then I wouldn't have to claim tax credits robbing other poor tax payers while my ex spends all his salary on fast cars and foreign holidays

Report this post »

Dr Potts, Bromley says...
7:13pm Fri 25 Jul 08

wmum wrote:
I'm a mum of 3 children and work full time. I claim tax credit of about £300 a month on top of my salary and can just about manage to keep a roof over our heads. I'd really like the CSA to use their teeth and force my self-employed ex-husband to pay maintenance. Then I wouldn't have to claim tax credits robbing other poor tax payers while my ex spends all his salary on fast cars and foreign holidays

Have you tried doing a bit of escort work.If you are fairly fit and not a bit of a minger you may find that you can earn a few quid this way.

Report this post »

Nick Russell, says...
10:42pm Sun 27 Jul 08

The welfare reforms assume that lone parents can choose the hours they have to work, and can afford good quality child care. Neither of these is true fo those who are less qualified. There is a proven link between neglect by a carer and aggression and violence in young men. I fear that this welfare reform will in 5 or 6 years relsut in higher rates of knife crime and other violence.

Report this post »

Your sayYourShopper

comment Add your comment

Register for a FREE News Shopper account and you can have your say on today's news and sport by adding comments on articles we publish. The best comments may even get published in the paper.

Please register now or sign in below to continue.