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Don’t judge us on exam stats
HEADTEACHERS are urging parents not to rely on "raw statistics" to judge a school's performance.
This was after results in Key Stage 3 exams for pupils aged 11 to 14 showed schools in the boroughs of Lewisham and Greenwich scored below the national average in English, maths and science.
Byron Parker, headteacher of Woolwich Polytechnic, Hutchins Road, Thamesmead, stressed the importance of looking at a school's overall achievement and other factors which may affect exam results.
Mr Parker urged parents to consider the school's Value Added score, which shows how well a school helps children progress by comparing them with other young people across the country.
And the Contextual Value Added measure (CVA) takes into account factors such as gender, mobility and deprivation in an area which may
affect students' results.
Mr Parker said: "If you stick to the raw statistics, you can't get an accurate measure.
"Most people just look at the statistics on face value."
Sue Harry, headteacher of Abbey Wood School, Eynsham Drive, Abbey Wood, agrees statistics can be misleading and is puzzled at her school's below-average scores.
She said: "All the schools in Greenwich are in line with the national average of 99 to 101 CVA points.
"But the raw scores show we are rated at below average."
Woolwich Polytechnic and Abbey Wood School both scored 100.7 CVA points for key stage 2 to 3 in 2007.
Key Stage 3 exam results showed the percentage of pupils nationwide achieving the expected level of performance was 74 per cent in
English, 73 per cent in science and 76 per cent in maths.
In Greenwich, the results were 67 per cent in English, 62 per cent in science and 66 per cent in maths.
The percentage of pupils achieving the expected level in Lewisham was 69 per cent in English and maths and just 59 per cent in science.
Lewisham Council's cabinet member for children and young people, Councillor Robert Massey, said: "We will continue to focus relentlessly on driving up standards in our schools."
9:37am Tuesday 4th March 2008
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CommentPosted by: Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott, The Study on 10:30am Tue 4 Mar 08
Contextual Value Added measure (CVA) = a lot of fancy words which amount to nothing in particular.
Perhaps if more time was spent actually 'teaching' instead of worrying about a child's background and their gender, they might learn something.
The lack of discipline in schools is reaping what it sowed.
Get back to the old way of pupils sitting behind their desks and doing their work without moaning and answering back and everything will be all right.
[bold]Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott[/bold]
Contextual Value Added measure (CVA) = a lot of fancy words which amount to nothing in particular.
Perhaps if more time was spent actually 'teaching' instead of worrying about a child's background and their gender, they might learn something.
The lack of discipline in schools is reaping what it sowed.
Get back to the old way of pupils sitting behind their desks and doing their work without moaning and answering back and everything will be all right.
Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott Posted by: L on 1:13pm Tue 4 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott[/bold] wrote:
Contextual Value Added measure (CVA) = a lot of fancy words which amount to nothing in particular. Perhaps if more time was spent actually 'teaching' instead of worrying about a child's background and their gender, they might learn something. The lack of discipline in schools is reaping what it sowed. Get back to the old way of pupils sitting behind their desks and doing their work without moaning and answering back and everything will be all right. [bold]Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott[/bold] [/quote] Want a job teaching? Think you might find it harder than you think!
Often a child's background can have a huge impact on their learning. If a child is unsupported at home and parents show no respect for the school nor will the child. I sit on school discipline panels and it is often (not always) when I meet the parents that I realise why the child has behaved as they have.
Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:
Contextual Value Added measure (CVA) = a lot of fancy words which amount to nothing in particular. Perhaps if more time was spent actually 'teaching' instead of worrying about a child's background and their gender, they might learn something. The lack of discipline in schools is reaping what it sowed. Get back to the old way of pupils sitting behind their desks and doing their work without moaning and answering back and everything will be all right. Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott
Want a job teaching? Think you might find it harder than you think!
Often a child's background can have a huge impact on their learning. If a child is unsupported at home and parents show no respect for the school nor will the child. I sit on school discipline panels and it is often (not always) when I meet the parents that I realise why the child has behaved as they have.
Posted by: Charlton Average, Charlton on 1:32pm Tue 4 Mar 08
I agree with L, it's not the lack of discipline at school it's the lack of it at home and a general lack of support/interest.
When I was at school it wasn't the fear of the teachers or their punishments that kept me in line. Rather it was the fear that my parents would find out what I'd been up to.
That seems to be sadly lacking these days.
Too many children are used to having no rules at home and thus will not take kindly to rules at school. When the teachers try, and they do try, to enforce things they will get no support from the parents and sometimes even have those parents up in school complaining about how their little darling shouldn't have been told off.
There's also a lack of respect. At parents evenings teachers will ask if the parents are making sure the children are doing their homework, ask if they're helping them with things like spellings or timetables. Certain parents will sit there and just flat out lie that they're helping, when the teachers are almost certain that they're not.
Imagine the effect on the child sitting there and seeing their parents lie to the person that they're meant to respect.
I agree with L, it's not the lack of discipline at school it's the lack of it at home and a general lack of support/interest.
When I was at school it wasn't the fear of the teachers or their punishments that kept me in line. Rather it was the fear that my parents would find out what I'd been up to.
That seems to be sadly lacking these days.
Too many children are used to having no rules at home and thus will not take kindly to rules at school. When the teachers try, and they do try, to enforce things they will get no support from the parents and sometimes even have those parents up in school complaining about how their little darling shouldn't have been told off.
There's also a lack of respect. At parents evenings teachers will ask if the parents are making sure the children are doing their homework, ask if they're helping them with things like spellings or timetables. Certain parents will sit there and just flat out lie that they're helping, when the teachers are almost certain that they're not.
Imagine the effect on the child sitting there and seeing their parents lie to the person that they're meant to respect.
Posted by: Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott, The Classroom on 2:12pm Tue 4 Mar 08
Unfortunately, I think that a lot of the trouble stems from the disillusioned teachers.
Let's face it, most teachers take up the profession because their degrees are not quite up to them training for better professions.
They fall back on teaching and regret it ever after.
It is hardly any wonder they cannot be bothered.
[bold]Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott[/bold]
Unfortunately, I think that a lot of the trouble stems from the disillusioned teachers.
Let's face it, most teachers take up the profession because their degrees are not quite up to them training for better professions.
They fall back on teaching and regret it ever after.
It is hardly any wonder they cannot be bothered.
Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott Posted by: Me, Belvedere on 3:30pm Tue 4 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott[/bold] wrote:
Contextual Value Added measure (CVA) = a lot of fancy words which amount to nothing in particular. Perhaps if more time was spent actually 'teaching' instead of worrying about a child's background and their gender, they might learn something. The lack of discipline in schools is reaping what it sowed. Get back to the old way of pupils sitting behind their desks and doing their work without moaning and answering back and everything will be all right. [bold]Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott[/bold] [/quote] I agree with you Erastus. I know of 3 people that have left teaching in the last 12 months because the actual teaching is such a little part of their jobs. They spent so much time out of the classroom to do pointless paperwork, it wasn't what they went into teaching for.
Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott wrote:
Contextual Value Added measure (CVA) = a lot of fancy words which amount to nothing in particular. Perhaps if more time was spent actually 'teaching' instead of worrying about a child's background and their gender, they might learn something. The lack of discipline in schools is reaping what it sowed. Get back to the old way of pupils sitting behind their desks and doing their work without moaning and answering back and everything will be all right. Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott
I agree with you Erastus. I know of 3 people that have left teaching in the last 12 months because the actual teaching is such a little part of their jobs. They spent so much time out of the classroom to do pointless paperwork, it wasn't what they went into teaching for.
Posted by: Pink Kitten, London on 4:05pm Tue 4 Mar 08
That is true, some people never started out wanting to teach in the first place just drifted into it after their degree didn't pay off.
That is true, some people never started out wanting to teach in the first place just drifted into it after their degree didn't pay off.
Posted by: Charlton Average on 4:13pm Tue 4 Mar 08
Most "young" teachers that I know entered the profession through choice and educated themselves with that choice in mind. Rather than thinking, "right I'm educated, what can I do?" it was "I want to teach, how do I get educated for it?"
As "Me" says those teachers that do become disillusioned do quit, and that happens in no small numbers. Working in another profession does not appear to be an issue.
The "issues" with today's youth extend far beyond the classroom. Blaming the teachers for the lack of discipline is a simplistic excuse that allows the deeper moral and sociological issues that are causing the trouble to go unaddressed.
Trying to blame the teachers also lets responsibility be lifted from the parents, which is something we do too much of these days.
Most "young" teachers that I know entered the profession through choice and educated themselves with that choice in mind. Rather than thinking, "right I'm educated, what can I do?" it was "I want to teach, how do I get educated for it?"
As "Me" says those teachers that do become disillusioned do quit, and that happens in no small numbers. Working in another profession does not appear to be an issue.
The "issues" with today's youth extend far beyond the classroom. Blaming the teachers for the lack of discipline is a simplistic excuse that allows the deeper moral and sociological issues that are causing the trouble to go unaddressed.
Trying to blame the teachers also lets responsibility be lifted from the parents, which is something we do too much of these days.
Posted by: L, Bromley on 9:20am Fri 7 Mar 08
The education system lets most children down. It is so hard to get a diagnosis on learning difficulties and then if you do the measures put in place to help the child are not carried out and a considerable amount of bad behaviour results from this. The Education system needs to be dragged from the Victorian times into the 21st Century so that some of the children with mild learning difficulties could get the help they need without having to await asessments. In 2008 should children be leaving school still not being able to read or write?
The education system lets most children down. It is so hard to get a diagnosis on learning difficulties and then if you do the measures put in place to help the child are not carried out and a considerable amount of bad behaviour results from this. The Education system needs to be dragged from the Victorian times into the 21st Century so that some of the children with mild learning difficulties could get the help they need without having to await asessments. In 2008 should children be leaving school still not being able to read or write?
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